So Laura , did U "jerryrig" the computer to get it off the "fritz"? Anyway, one name in particular caught my attention on your list... That is KOeNIG. Could U tell me where the name comes in please? Thanx in advance. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura G." <beagenie@charter.net> To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: [GERmanRUSsian] Roll Call >I am a little late in this roll call, as my computer has been on the >"fritz" for the better part of two months. (Wow! that term came out of my >long ago childhood. I have not thought of that term "fritz" for ever so >long. Daddy used to use it. > > Now to Roll Call: > > KAYSER (KAISER)/KREISS family, married 1860 in Alexanerhilf, emigrated to > Bon Homme Co., SD, later most of the family members moving to Washington > and Oregon (Palouse Co., and Multnomah Co.). > > Other names in this famiy's ancestral line, MALE suname FIRST: > KAYSER/WALKER(IN) > KAYSER/KEMMLER > KAYSER/FREY > > Other sunames in allied families (Germany and USA): > > GRAUER, KOENIG, SCHNEIDT, GENTNER, GRAUMAN, KAPPHAN, HETTMAN, LAUER, > GUSTAFSON, MATTHEIS, BAUER, DUNWALD, ESSER, RAPP, VILLWOCK, SCHAEFER, > SCHLAEFER, GRüNER, GRöNER, > > > ==== GermanRussian Mailing List ==== > For questions or with comments about this list, contact the list > administrator at > > mailto:GermanRussian-admin@rootsweb.com. > >

I am a little late in this roll call, as my computer has been on the "fritz" for the better part of two months. (Wow! that term came out of my long ago childhood. I have not thought of that term "fritz" for ever so long. Daddy used to use it. Now to Roll Call: KAYSER (KAISER)/KREISS family, married 1860 in Alexanerhilf, emigrated to Bon Homme Co., SD, later most of the family members moving to Washington and Oregon (Palouse Co., and Multnomah Co.). Other names in this famiy's ancestral line, MALE suname FIRST: KAYSER/WALKER(IN) KAYSER/KEMMLER KAYSER/FREY Other sunames in allied families (Germany and USA): GRAUER, KOENIG, SCHNEIDT, GENTNER, GRAUMAN, KAPPHAN, HETTMAN, LAUER, GUSTAFSON, MATTHEIS, BAUER, DUNWALD, ESSER, RAPP, VILLWOCK, SCHAEFER, SCHLAEFER, GRüNER, GRöNER,

In case anyone has missed it, there is now a DEDICATED mailing-list / list-server at Rootsweb for GR obits, called GR-Obits. That means we prefer not to see obits here on the GermanRussian genealogy list, unless there is a very special reason to also post on this list server. More information abt GR-Obits is at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Obituaries/GR-OBITS.html I urge all list members who are interested in obits to subscribe there. AND at the same time i request that obits ONLY be posted there. More information about list servers hosted at rootsweb.com which are dedicated to obits is at: http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/other/Obituaries/ I trust we will have everybody's cooperation. List Keeper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob and Elaine McDowell" <elainemcdowell@sbcglobal.net> To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 1:22 PM Subject: [GERmanRUSsian] obit: Reichel born Kolb, Russia

Greeley Tribune Greeley, Colorado 10-28-04 James Alvin Hoffner, 75, of Greeley died Wednesday, Oct. 26, at Hospice and Palliative Care of Northern Colorado inpatient unit, Greeley. He was born Dec. 3, 1928, on a farm west of Eaton to Fred and Katie (Kaiser) Hoffner. On Jan. 30, 1982, he married Alice (Schaefer) Leffler in Greeley. Mr. Hoffner graduated from Gill High School in 1946. In high school, he was active in all sports and later played for the Gill Blues baseball team. He served in the Army. In 1951, he was stationed in Fort Lee, Va., and was discharged in 1952 after serving in Korea. He was raised and farmed in the Gill area. Later he lived in Kersey and drove a truck for Monfort Trucking for several years. After moving to Greeley, he was employed by Centennial Ag in Kersey. He enjoyed his retirement and was interested in farming. He enjoyed fishing and watching football, basketball and baseball games. He was baptized as an infant in Christ Lutheran Church, now Faith Lutheran Church, in Eaton. He was a member of St. Paul's Congregational Church and was confirmed in April 1943. He was a past member of the Moose Lodge of Greeley and a charter member of Gill Lions Club. Survivors are his wife, Alice Hoffner; a daughter, Denna Sue Lewis and husband Jeff of Evans; a stepdaughter, Sharon Flohr and husband Ed of Greeley; two sons, Rodney Gene Hoffner and wife Susan of Patterson, N.Y., and Glen Allen Hoffner and wife Lori of Greeley; a stepson, Donn Leffler and wife Suzanne of Greeley; a sister, Harriet Lehr and husband Robert of Greeley; four brothers, Robert Hoffner and wife Betty of Greeley, Donald Hoffner and wife Mildred of Holyoke, Kenneth Hoffner of Gillette, Wyo., and Jerry Hoffner, also of Greeley; four grandchildren, Matthew Hoffner, Claire Hoffner, Andrea Lewis and Jordan Lewis; a stepgranddaughter, Lindsey Flohr; and an uncle, aunts, nephews, nieces and many cousins. His parents are deceased. Services will be at 1 p.m. Friday at St. Paul's Congregational Church, 1525 43rd Ave., Greeley. Interment will be at Sunset Memorial Gardens, Greeley. Friends may visit 4-7 p.m. today at Adamson Memorial West Chapel. Contributions may be made to St. Paul's Congregational Church or Hospice and Palliative Care of Northern Colorado in care of Adamson Memorial West Chapel, 2000 47th Ave., Greeley, CO 80634. Condolences may be sent to the family at www.adamson chapels.com. -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.280 / Virus Database: 264.12.4 - Release Date: 10/27/2004

Loveland FYI Loveland, Colorado 10-26-04 Carl Reichel, 93, of Loveland, died Oct. 23, 2004, at McKee Medical Center Hospice Care in Loveland. He was born March 13, 1911, in Kolb, Russia, to Michael and Elizabeth Henkel Reichel. In 1912, they came to the United States to Colorado and farmed in the Loveland-Berthoud area. He became a U.S. citizen Jan. 3, 1941. Mr. Reichel married Mildred Viola Trupp in Loveland on Dec. 8, 1935. They had a dairy farm southeast of Loveland, where they also grew beets. He also worked for the Great Western Sugar Co. during the beet campaign season. Mr. and Mrs. Reichel moved from the farm to Loveland in 1962. He was a member of the First Congregational Church. He is survived by his daughter, Marilyn Davis and husband John of Arvada; five grandchildren, nine great-grandchildren, one great-great-grandson; and nieces and nephews. He was preceded in death by his wife, Mildred Reichel, who died Jan. 31, 2000; son Robert Reichel, who died Jan. 24, 1937; daughter, Charlotte Lucius, who died July 5, 1995; grandson, Stacy Davis; and one great-grandson. Viewing will be at the Kibbey-Fishburn Funeral Home from noon to 5 p.m. Tuesday, and at the conclusion of services Wednesday. Funeral services will be 10 a.m. Wednesday at First Congregational Church. Burial will be at Loveland Burial Park. Memorial contributions may be made to First Congregational Church, 800 N. Lincoln Ave., Loveland, 80537. Back to the top -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.280 / Virus Database: 264.12.3 - Release Date: 10/25/2004 -- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.280 / Virus Database: 264.12.3 - Release Date: 10/25/2004 -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.280 / Virus Database: 264.12.3 - Release Date: 10/25/2004

We are trying to connect Jacob Fredrich Hochstetter b. 4-10-1824 Grossliebental and Johann Hochstatter b.12-10-1828 Grossliebental. I believe that Christian (below) is their father on the basis of birth records for the children (except Jacob and Johann) in the st. pete records which list him as father. The 1858 census list the children with their (mother also below). I believe Christian died 1850 also from st. pete records below. Jacob Fredrich is not listed with the family but occupies the house next door. I have lumped him in with the rest of the family on this evidence alone. Does anyone have better evidence? I am also guessing that Christian is the Christian Hochstetter listed on p.583 #199 of the Stumpp book. Does anyone have any info on these families? Sigmund, Christian's brother, apparently died in Alexanderhilf 1834. Don Hochstatter, Moses Lake WA Family Group Record ========================================================================================== Husband: Christian Hochstatter ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Birth: abt 1799 Death: 25 Mar 1850 Odessa, So. Russia Marriage: Father: Hochstatter Mother: ========================================================================================== Wife: Katharina Bauer? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Birth: 1801 Death: 24 Mar 1859 Sarata, Bessarabia, So. Russia ========================================================================================== Children ========================================================================================== 1 M Jacob Fredrich Hochstetter Birth: 10 Apr 1824 Grossliebental, Liebental, Odessa, So. R Death: 16 Oct 1909 Eureka, South Dakota Burial: 18 Oct 1909 Eureka, South Dakota Spouse: Louise Meintzer (m 3 May 1864) Spouse: Katherine Esch (m 6 Jan 1848) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2 M Johann Hochstatter Birth: 10 Dec 1828 Grossliebental, Liebental, Odessa, So. R Immigration: Apr 1894 Java, Walworth Co., South Dakota Burial: 22 Jun 1906 Congregational Cemetery, Java, South Dak Death: 21 Jul 1906 Walworth Co., South Dakota Spouse: Fredricka Luithle (m abt 1849) Spouse: Katherina Otto (m 16 Mar 1868) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 3 F Friederike Hochstatter Birth: 3 May 1834 Grossliebental, Liebental, Odessa, So. R Death: 10 Nov 1878 Sarata, Bessarabia, So. Russia Spouse: Alois Waldenmaier (m 1 Mar 1853) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 4 M Johann Georg Hochstatter Birth: 7 Nov 1836 Grossliebental, Liebental, Odessa, So. R Spouse: Elisabetha Schueller (m 24 Oct 1857) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5 M Christian Hochstatter Birth: 24 Mar 1839 Grossliebental, Liebental, Odessa, So. R ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6 M Jakob Hochstatter Birth: 2 Dec 1841 Grossliebental, Liebental, Odessa, So. R ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 7 F Catherina Hochstatter Birth: 1845 Death: 8 Jan 1846 FAMILY NOTES HUSBAND NOTES: Christian Hochstatter General: An article about George Hochstatter says that "The Hochstatters had gone to Russia in 1808 from southern Germany. Christian is listed on the birth record of the children, except Johann, no birth record is available a this time. Grossliebental 1858 census says the family arrived in 1806. The birth date is derived from the Stumpp book that list a Christian Hochstatter as age 17 in the 1816 Grossliebental Census. WIFE NOTES: Katharina Bauer? Birth(1): Death: A Katherine Hochstatter died on 24 Mar 1859 in Sarata. The film list her age as 58 which is consistant with the 1858 census. The only other Katharina Hochstatter of the same generation is wife of Jakob (possibly a brother to Christian) her maiden name is Pfau. General: Grossliebental 1858 Census Family 361 Widow Katharina Hochschteter (Hochstätter), 57 3 sons and their wives Johann was 22 in 1850 census, wife Friederika, they transferred to Colony Alexanderhilf in 1853 Georg, 22 and wife Elisabetha, 28 Jakob, 16 Daughter Friederik is married in Sarata Family 362 Jakob Hochschteter (Hochstätter), 33 and wife Katharina, 34 son: Ludwig, 2 daughters: Dorothea, died 1854, and Friederika, 4 CHILD NOTES: Johann Hochstatter General(3): Johann was born in South Russia 10 Dec 1828. He transferred to Alexanderhilf from Grossliebental by instruction of the Oversight committee no. 694 dated Jan. 26, 1853. His birth information is based on his age as listed on his death certificate. He is listed on the 1858, 10th census, entry #73, Alexanderhilf, Liebental District, Odessa along with his son Gottlieb (Johann Gottlob). He is listed as age 28 in this census. He came to the US in April 1894, He landed in New York and went to Java, Walworth Co. South Dakota to live with his son John. He lived with his son until his death on 21 July 1906. The Walworth County, South Dakota 1900 census for Germans from Russia lists Johann as John born 1830, immigrated to the U.S. in 1893 and was a widower. He was living with his son John. According to his death record in South Dakota he is buried in the Congregational Cemetery 5 miles north of Java SD. This location would put his grave in Campbell County. With this information, and the fact that a H. Hochstatter is listed as being buried in the Odessa Reformed Church Cemetery in Campbell Do. and this cemetery is located adjacent to 2 sections of land farmed by his son Christian; and since Johann is not listed on any Walworth Co. Cemetery Lists, I Believe that H. Hochstatter and Johann Hochstatter is the same person. Therefore, Johann is buried in the Odessa Reformed Church Cemetery in Campbell Co. at Sutley, SD. The exact location of this cemetery is: NW 1/4, SE1/4, Section 23, Township 125 Range 75 File: 1,244,647 Bessarabian Village Death Records, 185x (R. Drefs) Hochstotter, Katharina 24 Mar 1859 Sarata File: 118,318 Grossliebental Birth Records, 183x (D. Wahl) Hochstaetter, Friedrike 3 May 1834 Grossliebental Christian Hochstaetter 1882643/1 85 37 Hochstaetter, Johann Georg 7 Nov 1836 Grossliebental Christian Hochstaetter 1882646/2 54 139 Hochstetter, Christian 24 Mar 1839 Grossliebental Christian Hochstetter 1882649/3 4 36 File: 80,615 Grossliebental Death Records, 183x (D. Wahl)Hochstetter, kaob Siegmund 27 Aug 1834 Alexanderhilf File: 23,177 Grossliebental Marriage Records, 183x (D. Wahl)Arnold, Ludwig 21 May 1837 Alexanderhilf Hochstaetter, Margareth 1882647/3 21 10 Wf - born (Herning) Widow Both from Alexanderhilf Grm is Widower File: 138,627 Grossliebental Birth Records, 184x (D. Wahl)Hochstatter, Dorothea 23 Oct 1848 Grossliebental Jakob Hochstatter 1882641/2 112 144 Hochstetter, Jakob 2 Dec 1841 Grossliebental Christian Hochstetter 1883192/2 16 161 File: 100,428 Grossliebental Death Records, 184x (D. Wahl)Hochstaedter, Catharine 8 Jan 1846 Grossliebental Christian Hochstaedter File: 225,487 Odessa (City) Death Records, 185x (R. Wiseman)Hochstucker?, Christian 25 Mar 1850 Odessa 1882651/3 186 21 Grossliebental ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon and Tami Beaty To: dthoch@qosi.net Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 9:25 PM Subject: Hochstetter family Don: Hello again. Not sure if you remember me. I emailed you a long time ago. I would like to run past you a few things I have been pondering and searching and chatting with others about....the Hochstetters and their genealogy. When you have some time email me and I will go over them with you. Have you found out more info since we last talked? I seriously think my Hochstetter 'Father' was Gottlieb Hochstetter....from Grossliebental. I am wondering if you have thought the same. My Jakob Friedrich Hochstetter I really believe somehow is connected to your Johann Hochstetter. Jakob had a son who was named Johannes. Anyway, too many of the same names in our families to not be connected. I am more determined than ever to finally get this information. I am going to get the information, whatever it takes! I am determined now. And am not going to be working on any of my other family names until I have this information. I feel like I am fairly close at getting this information. Jakob Friedrich Hochstetter was born in 1824. So that is difficult...I am at a time where it is difficult to get good records regarding good information, reliable information. But I do think it is possible to deduct information from the data we have available to look at. Let me know if you would like to chat about it. Our Hochstetters settled too close to one another not to be related. =) And I want more cousins! =) Chat soon I hope. Tami Beaty (my mother is a Hochstetter)

I lost all my info that you and I had sent back and forth Rene'

I had posted a question about how would I go about locating my ENGEL relatives that were in Freudental. My computer did a semi crash and I lost all the e-mails that I had saved and contacts that I had made. If you contacted me and were going to help me out with EWZ, please e-mail me back. I'm sorry for the inconvenience. Sincerely Rene'

Ooops that should read: " Although Bertha shows up... we can't say for sure that SHE was the one who came to Germany... " ----- Original Message ----- From: "JM_on_GR_G" <JM_on_GR_genealogy@telus.net> To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [GERmanRUSsian] Freudental More specific info > Rene' wrote: >> Kinder: Friedrich died >> Sofia/Sophia abt 1884 EWZ states married Wilhelm Pfaff EWZ58 > > Based on the EWZ records i would conclude that Sophia was born 10 May 1884 > > As i wrote before, one has to be careful with the EWZ records... > Although Bertha shows up... we can't say for sure that SHE is not the one > who came to Germany... > but for sure her daughter who would have been <almost > 15 at the end of > WW-II did! > > Whether she < or her parents > stayed in Germany is a matter > U would have to persue from different sources... > > What do U know abt Sophia's line? > > There is a chance i have <dug up> info for Matthias Jr. for U too! > > Do U have any letters from Russia??? > > Jay > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <ENEA59@aol.com> > To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 12:41 PM > Subject: [GERmanRUSsian] Freudental More specific info > > >> My family is ENGEL. They were in Alt Freudental (Freudental, Freydental, >> Freudenthal) from it's beginning up unt il1920orlater. >> >> Last known ancestors the following: >> >> Matthias (Matthaeus, Martes, etc.) & Dorothea (Moritz) ENGEL married in >> Freudental 1884. >> >> Kinder: Friedrich died >> Sofia/Sophia abt 1884 EWZ states married Wilhelm Pfaff EWZ58 >> Edward 29 Jan 1889 came to America 1911 >> *Johanna Maria 25 Mar 1891 came to America 1914 (my great >> grandma) >> Carl unknown birthdate >> Matthias unknown birthdate >> Wilhelm/William unknown birthdate >> Heinrich unknown possibly 1898 executed in Odessa Martyology >> Henry or Paul >> Bertha EWZ states *25 Mar 1900 married an Anton Len EWZ50 >> >> >> This is the info I have. I don't know where Bertha & family were sent or >> went to. I don't know what happened to her parents or the rest of her >> brothers. >> >> Thank you all for your help. >> Rene' >> >> >> ==== GermanRussian Mailing List ==== >> Any virus infected e-mail via [claiming to be from] a Rootsweb.com list >> is FORGED. >> >> > > > ==== GermanRussian Mailing List ==== > Any virus infected e-mail via [claiming to be from] a Rootsweb.com list is > FORGED. > >

Rene' wrote: > Kinder: Friedrich died > Sofia/Sophia abt 1884 EWZ states married Wilhelm Pfaff EWZ58 Based on the EWZ records i would conclude that Sophia was born 10 May 1884 As i wrote before, one has to be careful with the EWZ records... Although Bertha shows up... we can't say for sure that SHE is not the one who came to Germany... but for sure her daughter who would have been <almost > 15 at the end of WW-II did! Whether she < or her parents > stayed in Germany is a matter U would have to persue from different sources... What do U know abt Sophia's line? There is a chance i have <dug up> info for Matthias Jr. for U too! Do U have any letters from Russia??? Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: <ENEA59@aol.com> To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 12:41 PM Subject: [GERmanRUSsian] Freudental More specific info > My family is ENGEL. They were in Alt Freudental (Freudental, Freydental, > Freudenthal) from it's beginning up unt il1920orlater. > > Last known ancestors the following: > > Matthias (Matthaeus, Martes, etc.) & Dorothea (Moritz) ENGEL married in > Freudental 1884. > > Kinder: Friedrich died > Sofia/Sophia abt 1884 EWZ states married Wilhelm Pfaff EWZ58 > Edward 29 Jan 1889 came to America 1911 > *Johanna Maria 25 Mar 1891 came to America 1914 (my great > grandma) > Carl unknown birthdate > Matthias unknown birthdate > Wilhelm/William unknown birthdate > Heinrich unknown possibly 1898 executed in Odessa Martyology > Henry or Paul > Bertha EWZ states *25 Mar 1900 married an Anton Len EWZ50 > > > This is the info I have. I don't know where Bertha & family were sent or > went to. I don't know what happened to her parents or the rest of her > brothers. > > Thank you all for your help. > Rene' > > > ==== GermanRussian Mailing List ==== > Any virus infected e-mail via [claiming to be from] a Rootsweb.com list is > FORGED. > >

From this detail it is still not clear to me what in particular U are looking for Rene' ??? EWZ records tend to indicate WHO made it into Germany... THAT alone is not really enough information to go on... for after the end of WW-II many many former citizens of Russia who had made their way to Germany one way or another, were subsequently "rounded up" and re-patriated to Russia.... Generally they were told they were going "home"... But "home" proved to be the USSR... rather than their specific former residences in the Ukraine or in the other "former colony" areas... Clearly the regime in power at the time had other plans for these folks and most were sent off to camps in Siberia and beyond... So unless U have some "inkling" or some information, say letters from and to your great grandma, as to other members of the family, U are sort of shooting in the dark... As an aside, working with EWZ records U have to be very careful that U understand what U are looking at... Perhaps i will use some examples to illustrate, if there is an interest... JAy ----- Original Message ----- From: <ENEA59@aol.com> To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 12:41 PM Subject: [GERmanRUSsian] Freudental More specific info > My family is ENGEL. They were in Alt Freudental (Freudental, Freydental, > Freudenthal) from it's beginning up until 1920 or later. > > Last known ancestors the following: > > Matthias (Matthaeus, Martes, etc.) & Dorothea (Moritz) ENGEL married in > Freudental 1884. > > Kinder: Friedrich died > Sofia/Sophia abt 1884 EWZ states married Wilhelm Pfaff EWZ58 > Edward 29 Jan 1889 came to America 1911 > *Johanna Maria 25 Mar 1891 came to America 1914 (my great > grandma) > Carl unknown birthdate > Matthias unknown birthdate > Wilhelm/William unknown birthdate > Heinrich unknown possibly 1898 executed in Odessa Martyology > Ehrman > Henry or Paul > Bertha EWZ states *25 Mar 1900 married an Anton Len EWZ50 > > > This is the info I have. I don't know where Bertha & family were sent or > went to. I don't know what happened to her parents or the rest of her > brothers. > > Thank you all for your help. > Rene' > > > ==== GermanRussian Mailing List ==== > Any virus infected e-mail via [claiming to be from] a Rootsweb.com list is > FORGED. > >

I couldn't agree more! But then basically that 's what i wrote... She is interested in ENGELs ... i.e. the family name ENGEL The EWZ will only help Rene' if she is looking for folks who didn't stay in the Union of Soviet Republics ( i.e. "Russia" ... ) but who came out out the Soviet block to Germany... ;j. ----- Original Message ----- From: "W.Toews" <W.Toews@shaw.ca> To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [GERmanRUSsian] locating living relatives from Russia > Hello list, > Maybe if Rene gave us more specific information. The > question is very general. What period of history are we talking about pre > or post WW II. Does Rene have names of specific relatives etc. It's hard > to help someone with just basic information on such a complex topic of > research. Their are EWZ files too look at if they went to Germany or you > could contact various Russian organizations which could help but they all > would need more detailed information. The Red Cross did help me locate > information on the fate of my grandfather (1937-1338) from the Ukrainian > archives. > > Werner Toews > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JM_on_GR_G" <JM_on_GR_genealogy@telus.net> > To: "W.Toews" <W.Toews@shaw.ca>; <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> > Cc: <ENEA59@aol.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 9:00 AM > Subject: Re: [GERmanRUSsian] locating living relatives from Russia > > >> Given that AHSGR has a very strong focus >> on the WOLGA-Deutschen >> it might be a better idea to mention GRHS... >> which also has its own website... www.grhs.org >> and which has more of a focus on the areas Rene' mentioned. >> >> That said however, it is not very likely that Rene' >> is gonna find any answer at either website or organisation... >> >> The dispersal throughout the Russian empire >> of the ethnic Germans simply did not follow >> the patterns Rene' is looking for or suggesting... >> >> >> Based on direct information i have >> abt the family lines i have researched, >> i have to say that one can some it up by: >> >> "Some went < were sent > to the North... ; >> some were sent < went > to the South..." >> >> "Some to the West of Siberia, some to the East of Siberia..." >> >> Then once the "Kommandantur" was lifted, >> families also "shifted"... but not to their >> "points of departure"... >> >> So have yer pick! >> >> The utterly amazing thing is that the >> families thus scattered in the former USSR >> were able to maintain some contact at all... >> >> There were of course well known "destinations"... >> For instance < in German > Kazachen, Kirgiesen, etc. >> >> >> IF some kind of "index" exists, i would expect >> it to be with the International Red Cross... >> >> I don't think though that they are terribly interested >> in generic genealogical queries... And that is how >> it should be. >> >> >> Another avenue might be to contact the associations that are active in >> Germany, >> < as many many folks have returned there as "Spaetaussiedler" < >> "late-emigrants" > >> and if Rene' has specific people she is looking for, THEY may be able to >> help... >> Some of the publications < in German > such as "Volk auf dem Weg" >> have had pages and pages of "Suche" ads... >> >> >> Jay. >> >> PS >> My mentioning these various organisations >> in no way should be construed >> as an endorsement, nor as a criticism. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "W.Toews" <W.Toews@shaw.ca> >> To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 7:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [GERmanRUSsian] locating living relatives from Russia >> >> >>> Hello Rene, >>> Have you tried the American Historical Society of >>> Germans From Russia >>> website. Here is the links page of the website with many links that >>> might help you. >>> >>> http://www.ahsgr.org/links.htm >>> >>> Good Luck Werner Toews CANADA >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: <ENEA59@aol.com> >>> To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 12:12 PM >>> Subject: [GERmanRUSsian] locating living relatives from Russia >>> >>> >>>> Is there any information (indexes, etc.) that might help us to find out >>>> where our ancestors went to after resettlement, relocation, >>>> deportation, etc.? >>>> What I am saying too is did particular villages tend to go to >>>> particular >>>> countries or areas? >>>> >>>> Researching at the moment: ENGEL - Alt Freudental, Freudental- Black >>>> Sea >>>> region >>>> >>>> Rene' >>>> Thanks for all the answers on village location. >>> >> > > > > ==== GermanRussian Mailing List ==== > Information about your GermanRussian Mailing List is at > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/RUS/GermanRussian.html > >

My family is ENGEL. They were in Alt Freudental (Freudental, Freydental, Freudenthal) from it's beginning up until 1920 or later. Last known ancestors the following: Matthias (Matthaeus, Martes, etc.) & Dorothea (Moritz) ENGEL married in Freudental 1884. Kinder: Friedrich died Sofia/Sophia abt 1884 EWZ states married Wilhelm Pfaff EWZ58 Edward 29 Jan 1889 came to America 1911 *Johanna Maria 25 Mar 1891 came to America 1914 (my great grandma) Carl unknown birthdate Matthias unknown birthdate Wilhelm/William unknown birthdate Heinrich unknown possibly 1898 executed in Odessa Martyology Ehrman Henry or Paul Bertha EWZ states *25 Mar 1900 married an Anton Len EWZ50 This is the info I have. I don't know where Bertha & family were sent or went to. I don't know what happened to her parents or the rest of her brothers. Thank you all for your help. Rene'

Another common "phenomenon" on transcription of German family names is the dropping of the umlaut.. For instance Gohring instead of Goehring... Likewise, Konig will show up for Koenig. Etc. etc. When the umlaut is not transcribed as a " trailing 'e' " we end up with a spelling which is not correct, but which one should anticipate in searches... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ EXAMPLE: Freudental Birth Records, 186x Gohring, Louise 4 Jan 1864 Rosenfeld Johannes/Katharine Hirning 1884123/4 180 1 From Alexanderhilf Gohring, Wilhelm 21 Nov 1865 Rosenfeld Johannes/Katharine Henning 1884087/2 20 23 From Alexanderhilf COMPARE: Freudental Birth Records, 188x Bauer, Magdalena 4 Oct 1884 Rosenfeld Jakob - Goehring, Christ. 1895617-1 738 21 elel Neuburg Goehring, Emilie 12 Dec 1881 Rosenfeld Christ. - Essig, Regine 1897593-1 657 29 l l Alexanderhilf Goehring, Karl 28 Feb 1884 Rosenfeld Christ. - Essig, Regine 1895617-1 736 7 elel Alexanderhilf Goehring, Carl 12 Dec 1881 Rosenfeld Hein. - Konig, Luise 1897593-1 657 26 l l Alexanderhilf Goehring, Johannes 2 Nov 1885 Rosenfeld Johannes - Neubauer, Louise 1897695-1 769 21 elel Alexanderhilf Goehring, Jacob 20 Aug 1884 Rosenfeld Johannes - Neubauer, Louise 1895617-1 737 17 elel Alexanderhilf Freudental Death Records, 188x Bauer, Magdalena 15 Oct 1884 Rosenfeld Jakob - Goehring, Christine 1895617-1 765 14 0y.0m.12d., Rosenfeld Neuburg

U mean Regehr or Regier.... Yes, those names exist... BUT RIEGER is original, and comes from WUe. The "godfather" was a Martin , who came from Odenwald(?) to Gluecksthal... and then went on to Brienne / Hoffnungsthal in Bess. < according to Stumpp that is > I have seen other places of origin mentioned as well IF there are RIEGER [re]searchers out there, let's compare notes... My WIDMAIERs are definately tied in with RIEGERs... ----- Original Message ----- From: mthiessen To: JM_on_GR_G Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [GERmanRUSsian] ERRATA: Ringer s/b RIEGER RIEGER looks as though it might be a spelling variation of Riegier/Reugier...a Mennonite (Dutch) German from Russia. ~malinda JM_on_GR_G <JM_on_GR_genealogy@telus.net> wrote: To the best of my knowledge there never was a (GR) RINGER in S.Russia... Often transcribers have had trouble discerning an "e" from an "n"... It does help when one knows which names exist, and what reads as pure nonsense... The interesting thing here is that Fried. WIDMAIER went to Bessarabia to marry his bride... even as his roots are in Alexanderhilf... The Widmaier -=- Rieger connection also shows in other relationships... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Freudental Birth Records Widmaier, Elisabethe 8 Jan 1864 Rosenfeld Friedrich/Anna Maria Ringer 1884123/4 180 2 From Alexanderhilf Wiedmaier, Stillborn Son 14 Jun 1870 Berlin Friedrich/Anna Maria Ringer 1884111/2 617 49 From Alexanderhilf Ringer?, Jacob 1 Feb 1871 Berlin Martin/Friedrike Gobel 1884125/2 622 4 From Brienne Strohmaier, Christina 3 Jun 1881 Berlin Jakob - Ringer, Rosine 1897593-1 651 17 elel Gross Liebental COMPARE: Bessarabian Village Marriages Wiedmeier, Friedrich 26 Oct 1850 Rieger, Anna Maria Arcis 1882651/3 167 24 Rieger, Martin 23 Sep 1855 Schmidt, Christina Kloestitz 1884075/1 551 31 ==== GermanRussian Mailing List ==== Any virus infected e-mail via [claiming to be from] a Rootsweb.com list is FORGED.

Hello list, Maybe if Rene gave us more specific information. The question is very general. What period of history are we talking about pre or post WW II. Does Rene have names of specific relatives etc. It's hard to help someone with just basic information on such a complex topic of research. Their are EWZ files too look at if they went to Germany or you could contact various Russian organizations which could help but they all would need more detailed information. The Red Cross did help me locate information on the fate of my grandfather (1937-1338) from the Ukrainian archives. Werner Toews ----- Original Message ----- From: "JM_on_GR_G" <JM_on_GR_genealogy@telus.net> To: "W.Toews" <W.Toews@shaw.ca>; <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> Cc: <ENEA59@aol.com> Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [GERmanRUSsian] locating living relatives from Russia > Given that AHSGR has a very strong focus > on the WOLGA-Deutschen > it might be a better idea to mention GRHS... > which also has its own website... www.grhs.org > and which has more of a focus on the areas Rene' mentioned. > > That said however, it is not very likely that Rene' > is gonna find any answer at either website or organisation... > > The dispersal throughout the Russian empire > of the ethnic Germans simply did not follow > the patterns Rene' is looking for or suggesting... > > > Based on direct information i have > abt the family lines i have researched, > i have to say that one can some it up by: > > "Some went < were sent > to the North... ; > some were sent < went > to the South..." > > "Some to the West of Siberia, some to the East of Siberia..." > > Then once the "Kommandantur" was lifted, > families also "shifted"... but not to their > "points of departure"... > > So have yer pick! > > The utterly amazing thing is that the > families thus scattered in the former USSR > were able to maintain some contact at all... > > There were of course well known "destinations"... > For instance < in German > Kazachen, Kirgiesen, etc. > > > IF some kind of "index" exists, i would expect > it to be with the International Red Cross... > > I don't think though that they are terribly interested > in generic genealogical queries... And that is how > it should be. > > > Another avenue might be to contact the associations that are active in > Germany, > < as many many folks have returned there as "Spaetaussiedler" < > "late-emigrants" > > and if Rene' has specific people she is looking for, THEY may be able to > help... > Some of the publications < in German > such as "Volk auf dem Weg" > have had pages and pages of "Suche" ads... > > > Jay. > > PS > My mentioning these various organisations > in no way should be construed > as an endorsement, nor as a criticism. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "W.Toews" <W.Toews@shaw.ca> > To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 7:52 PM > Subject: Re: [GERmanRUSsian] locating living relatives from Russia > > >> Hello Rene, >> Have you tried the American Historical Society of >> Germans From Russia >> website. Here is the links page of the website with many links that >> might help you. >> >> http://www.ahsgr.org/links.htm >> >> Good Luck Werner Toews CANADA >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <ENEA59@aol.com> >> To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 12:12 PM >> Subject: [GERmanRUSsian] locating living relatives from Russia >> >> >>> Is there any information (indexes, etc.) that might help us to find out >>> where our ancestors went to after resettlement, relocation, deportation, >>> etc.? >>> What I am saying too is did particular villages tend to go to particular >>> countries or areas? >>> >>> Researching at the moment: ENGEL - Alt Freudental, Freudental- Black Sea >>> region >>> >>> Rene' >>> Thanks for all the answers on village location. >> >

To the best of my knowledge there never was a (GR) RINGER in S.Russia... Often transcribers have had trouble discerning an "e" from an "n"... It does help when one knows which names exist, and what reads as pure nonsense... The interesting thing here is that Fried. WIDMAIER went to Bessarabia to marry his bride... even as his roots are in Alexanderhilf... The Widmaier -=- Rieger connection also shows in other relationships... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Freudental Birth Records Widmaier, Elisabethe 8 Jan 1864 Rosenfeld Friedrich/Anna Maria Ringer 1884123/4 180 2 From Alexanderhilf Wiedmaier, Stillborn Son 14 Jun 1870 Berlin Friedrich/Anna Maria Ringer 1884111/2 617 49 From Alexanderhilf Ringer?, Jacob 1 Feb 1871 Berlin Martin/Friedrike Gobel 1884125/2 622 4 From Brienne Strohmaier, Christina 3 Jun 1881 Berlin Jakob - Ringer, Rosine 1897593-1 651 17 elel Gross Liebental COMPARE: Bessarabian Village Marriages Wiedmeier, Friedrich 26 Oct 1850 Rieger, Anna Maria Arcis 1882651/3 167 24 Rieger, Martin 23 Sep 1855 Schmidt, Christina Kloestitz 1884075/1 551 31

Raugut, Marie 13 Dec 1876 Mannsburg Christian Mueller, Wilhelmine 1884070/1 842 48 COMPARE: Raugust, Johann 5 Aug 1874 Mannsburg Christian Muller, Wilhelmine 1884120/1 795 28 Raugust, Johannes 13 Jan 1878 Mannsburg Christian Mueller, Wilhelmina 1895629/1 851 2 Source: http://odessa3.org/collections/stpete/bess/link/bes187xb.txt

Schwautz in: Rohrbach Birth Records, 185x (D. Wahl) Schwautz, Anna Maria 17 Mar 1850 Rohrbach Johann Georg Schwautz 1882652/1 355 14 Rohrbach Death Records, 186x (D. Wahl) Schwautz, Magdalena 14 Sep 1860 Johannestal Jacob Schwautz 1884079/5 98 21 Schnautz in: Rohrbach Marriage Records, 187x (D. Wahl) Schmautz, Peter 17 Nov 1870 Gueldendorf Schnautz, , Quenzer, Christin 1884111/2 107 16 Odessa (City) Marriage Records, 187x (R. Wiseman) Fried, Georg 8 Dec 1870 Guldendorf 1884111-2 101 17 Schnautz, Anna Marie COMPARE: Rohrbach Birth Records, 185x Schmautz, Ludwig 10 Feb 1858 Rohrbach Schmautz, Jacob, Wiest, Rosin 1884105/2 503 36 Bapt 14-Feb Schmautz, Magdalina 29 Oct 1859 Rohrbach Jacob Schmautz 1884093/2 251 31 Schmautz, Rosina 23 Aug 1856 Rohrbach Schmautz, Johann Georg, Nutz, 1884101/1 482 35 Bapt 23-Sep

Note: Bernhard Sauter came to the USA. Grossliebental Births, 184x Sauder, Johann 2 Jun 1841 Grossliebental Eberhard Sauder 1883192/2 8 70 COMPARE:Sauter, Bernhard 7 Feb 1845 Grossliebental Eberhard Sauter 1882636/1 354 22 Rohrbach Deaths, 187x Sauder, Jakob 30 Jun 1879 Hoffnung Johann S. 1895629/1 809 10 1 year 1 mo. 22 days