Jay, Thank you for your kind and generous words! Appreciated! It has been my experience with the various villages that I've researched (over and over again) that I've always been able to find the baptismal date so, my curiosity is alerted when it is suggested that that kind of record is not always found. I suppose that there are rare instances when the scribe forgot to record it for one reason or another but, that would likely be the exception I think. Do you have specific examples? The St.Pete records are not infallible. I found 3 consecutive entries for one village with children all having a different surname but the record indicated that all three had identical parents! Some miracle, eh? Perhaps the scribe was "distracted" a bit? The on-line index IS a good tool, primarily because it usually tells you what film number and entry number to refer to when you do your actual research. It was never ment to be the final word. Perhaps I wasn't as clear on that point as I should have been. Indeed, we owe a HUGE debt of gratitude to those who put in the thousands of hours so that we might have an easier job of locating the information in the original document. Regards, Curt.

Whereas i generally agree with Curt's post, it must be pointed out that the information that is in fact recorded < in the original records > varies a great deal. It is not always as complete as Curt's note suggests. < For instance for many births there is no baptismal information > It is best to check the actual records and see what is there. Doing that can also lead to other discoveries. And a big YES on the "spelling" errors that are online. One of the worst is the mis-translation of a specific letter from the German script to the wrong one. Not to mention old-fashioned typos. In family names this will generally mean that a "simple" search on the Odessa Digital Library files, where the online St. Pete INDEX is kept, will not deliver the expected results. For instance we will see Lauter in the online index, when in fact the name is Sauter. Etc. etc. In my view this happened due to lack of knowledge on the part of the volunteers, and a lack of "editting". That said, i hasten to add that the online index is an invaluable tool, and that those who worked on it are to be commended for their efforts. Once a user of this index understands what to expect and what to be aware of it becomes even more valuable. One final note, the information in the <actual> St. Petersburg records also will show a conflict with information recorded by Karl Stumpp. THAT should put users of the "Stumpp bible" on notice, that it too has flaws. [ I believe that Curt has compiled a large number of mistakes which he has found by diligent comparisson of St.Petersburg records against the Stumpp book. ] There simply is no substitute for extensive digging and verifying, which when it leads to the "Eureka" experience is without parallel. On with roots-rooting! Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: <RWheelerst@aol.com> To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [GERmanRUSsian] St. Petersburg Archives, What information is on the microfilm records > Dennis, > In a message dated 10/5/03 9:28:32 PM, rolldr@telus.net writes: > > << Just curious to know what information is in the original birth records on > microfilm. Is there additional info other than what is online? > >> > > Oh my, yes!!! What is online was never meant to take the place of what is on > film. First, what is on line may have errors in spelling, etc. On film you > will find birth date and hour of birth, baptism date, the name of the child, > the names of the parents, the sponsors. As for the death records, you will > also find the cause of death. > > Anyone doing serious research MUST see the original, in this case, the > microfilm. > > Happy hunting! > > Curt. > > > ==== GermanRussian Mailing List ==== > Information about your GermanRussian Mailing List is at > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/RUS/GermanRussian.html > >

Dennis, In a message dated 10/5/03 9:28:32 PM, rolldr@telus.net writes: << Just curious to know what information is in the original birth records on microfilm. Is there additional info other than what is online? >> Oh my, yes!!! What is online was never meant to take the place of what is on film. First, what is on line may have errors in spelling, etc. On film you will find birth date and hour of birth, baptism date, the name of the child, the names of the parents, the sponsors. As for the death records, you will also find the cause of death. Anyone doing serious research MUST see the original, in this case, the microfilm. Happy hunting! Curt.

I am looking for information on Bertha nee HUMMEL GAUGEL relatives...Parents:Hummel, Karl 1861 Neuburg Hummel, Regine 1866 Freudental geb. Harsch Gaugel, Bertha * Neuburg geb. Hummel, * birthdate not given

I am looking for information on Karoline nee HUMMEL, ROeSSLE relatives... Parents: Hummel, Friedrich 4 Dec 1869 Neuburg Hummel, Rosine 27 Dec 1872 Neuburg geb. Hertz Roessle, Karoline * Neuburg geb. Hummel, * birthdate not given

Yes, there is more information. Generally - for instance - one can find the complete name of the birth-mother. If U have a chance it is worth going to a place that has the films and doing a closer inspection. The FHC on 17th SW in Calgary has about 125 films... ;j. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Roll" <rolldr@telus.net> To: <GermanRussian-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 11:26 PM Subject: [GERmanRUSsian] St. Petersburg Archives, What information is on the microfilm records > Just curious to know what information is in the original birth records on microfilm. Is there additional info other than what is online?

Just curious to know what information is in the original birth records on microfilm. Is there additional info other than what is online?

<A HREF="http://feefhs.org/">http://feefhs.org/</A> The site for all Germans who migr. into Austria-Hungary ..... also known just as Hungary......... Later was/is part of Rumania........ Includes Banat area which is best known by many Germans who migr. into Russia. My Pfaff family site has some information on Torschau.....Batschka <A HREF="http://www.remmick.org/Pfaff.Genealogy/Page13.html">http://www.remmick.org/Pfaff.Genealogy/Page13.html</A> My husbands family did not venture into Russia but I'm sure some distant cousins might well have. Hubert and Hummel http://www.remmick.org/Hubert.Hummel.Gen./ remmick@aol.com

How did this work out... ? ----- Original Message ----- From: ;j. To: mthiessen Cc: GerRus Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [GERmanRUSsian] From / via Hungary... The place to go for that index is: http://pixel.cs.vt.edu/library/search.html In Data Category: select St. Petersburg Archives Then be creative what U look for... ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: mthiessen To: ;j. Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 3:35 AM Subject: Re: [GERmanRUSsian] From / via Hungary... Excellent input...thanks for sharing. Can you tell me how to access the St. Petersburg file Index ? Is it online ? ~malinda Don, further to that subject: Prior to the opening up of Southern Russia < New Russia > for settlers to the Russian Empire, there were earlier migrations from "German" regions into the Austro-Hungarian Empire... The Empress who "opened up" her door to these settlers only wanted Catholics... Later on her son < perhaps grandson > relaxed the rules, and Protestants were also allowed. The Protestants primarily settled in an area called the BATSCHKA < the Catholics were in the BANAT > After the initial colonies in S.Russia were decimated by disease, a renewed call for settlers went out < from Tzar Alexander > and many many settlers came from Hungary, where they or their ancestors had initially settled. Off the top of my head i can't remember exactly how and where, but there are lists of these settlers... I tracked a large number of 'em via th e St.Pete Index files... by searching for Hungary or Ungarn < both terms were used in the Index>.

I'm researching my SAWATZKI/BAST branch, which came to Michigan around 1870 from an area near the West/East Prussia border, around Gulbein, Sommerau Parish, Kreis Rosenburg in 1850. This branch was Lutheran here, but I'm told that SAWATZKI is a fairly common Mennonite name. A friend has found some Sawatzki names in the parish records in that area in the 1800-1850 timeframe. I'm unfamiliar with Prussian research - would parish records in that timeframe include Mennonites? Would there be an annotation of some type to delineate Mennonites (or any religious affiliation)? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Dale

http://www.mmhs.org/prussia/mmhsgen3.htm Dale, Have you done a search at the above Prussia site? You can do a search just with in the Mennonite records. I believe there were often notations of Mennonites in records and often they were included in the Lutheran or Catholic records. I have Mennonite roots and have received a lot of help here. If you would add dates and names I will check if any SAWATZKIs are in my records. Kathy +++++Researching family names of Penner, Jost, Gaede, Loewen, Funk, Regehr, Dirksen/Duerksen, Leppke, Fenske, Sperling, Ewy, Harms, Isaac, Born, Remple, Albert, Feierherrn/Frierhelm and Thiessen, +++++ > I'm researching my SAWATZKI/BAST branch, which came to Michigan around > 1870 from an area near the West/East Prussia border, around Gulbein, > Sommerau Parish, Kreis Rosenburg in 1850. This branch was Lutheran here, but I'm told that SAWATZKI is a fairly > common Mennonite name. A friend has found some Sawatzki names in the > parish records in that area in the 1800-1850 timeframe. I'm unfamiliar > with Prussian research - would parish records in that timeframe include > Mennonites? Would there be an annotation of some type to delineate > Mennonites (or any religious affiliation)? > >

Typos<?> like that make it hard to find.... Freudental Birth Records, 184x Wiedmann, Christian 29 Jan 1841 Freudental Jacob/Christina Hochsladter 1883193/1 540 11 EL, PBN:257 Freudental Death Records, 184x Wiedmann, Christian 10 Feb 1841 Freudental Jacob/Christina Hochsladter 1883193/1 568 3 0y.0m.12d., Freudental, PBN:257

The parental couple mentioned below are Friedrich Widmaier < different spellings of last name> and Anna Maria RIEGER... Ringer and Senger are mistakes; as is the place Alexanderfeld which should be [ s/b ] Alexanderhilf. Is there anyone else out there who has these "ancestors" or relatives? Freudental Birth Records, 186x Widmaier, Anna Maria 21 Feb 1862 Rosenfeld Friedrich/Anna Maria Rieger 1884095/3 131 7 From Alexanderfeld Widmaier, Elisabethe 8 Jan 1864 Rosenfeld Friedrich/Anna Maria Ringer 1884123/4 180 2 From Alexanderhilf Widmaier, Katharine 22 Apr 1867 Rosenfeld Friedrich Anna Maria Senger 1884091/3 602 9 From Alexanderhilf, PBN:38 see http://pixel.cs.vt.edu/library/search.html

I'm hunting for the following family groups: MIESKE/MISKE/MUESKE, ARNDT, PAHL/POHL from Volhyna and Congress Poland SAWATSKI, BAST/BASTIAN, DOMMEL, RAHN, ZIRULLA from Prussia NIKOLAI/NIKOLAI, GRIEB/GRIEP, MATTIS/MATHEWS, ERBE/ERBER, from Volhynia and Congress Poland Thanks. Dale Mattis

Ella, In the book "Odessa Germans, 1803-1920" by Eh. G. Plesskaya-Sebold in a section on various commercial enterprises in Odessa there is the following item: "Bergau, Friedrich Friedrichovich (= son of Friedrich), Production of carriages since 1885. Small carriages (drozhky) with and without bonnets. Sophievskiy Pereulok 5." Note that one of the meanings for drozhky is a funeral hearse, but small ones were generally built for two, sometimes four, had springs for a gentler ride, and were used for going to town or running short errands. That was the only Bergau item and the only Kraft item concerned a Nicolaus Kraft (1875-1921), who was a Roman Catholic Priest in the colony of Mariental 1910-1921. Nothing given on genealogy for either. Donn Koenig In a message dated 9/13/03 12:16:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ella_macleod_melik@yahoo.com writes: > I am researching families BERGAU, KRAFT. What I'm finding is that the St. > Petersburg and Odessa files have little on the last decade or two of the 19th > century. I'm making little headway at this point. > > Names: > BERGAU, Friedrich Theodor (Familienvater, born 1862 in Ostpreussen); his > wife (maiden name BENSING or NAUJOKS); their children Helmut; Anna; Ella; Fritz; > grandchild Oskar. > KRAFT, ? Anna's husband. Anna and husband were not heard from again after > 1937. Helmut, Oskar and family disappeared during WW II. > I want to find out what became of them. > Place: Odessa > >

Do we still have Wiedmaier/Wiedmeier researchers on this list? I would like to compare notes on some recent data i have found, Jay Meeuwig

27 Dercho Magdalena 27 Aug 1878 Marienfeld Bernadetta 8 Oct 1911 Rosalienfeld Peter 5 Jun 1913 Rosalienfeld Veronika 12 Feb 1920 Rosalienfeld see: DAI records...

31 Fix Joseph 8 Jun 1914 Felsenburg Mathilde 27 Dec 1912 Landau Joseph 12 May 1931 Felsenburg Alvine 30 Mar 1940 Felsenburg 32 Fix Agathe 18 Aug 1882 Felsenburg Albertine 17 Oct 1917 Felsenburg 33 Fix Nikolaus 3 Feb 1922 Hagendorf Ida 20 Mar 1922 Chutor Anton 34 Fix Stephan 25 Aug 1912 Felsenburg Rosa 28 Sep 1918 Mannheim Elisabeth 25 Jun 1932 Felsenburg Adolf 21 Jun 1938 Felsenburg Wilhelm 31 Jul 1941 Felsenburg see: DAI records...

14 Boehm Karolina 20 Dec 1913 Katharinental 15 Boehm Arminia 9 May 1908 Alt Klosterdorf Nikolaus 27 Feb 1931 Alexandrowka Michael 27 Sep 1933 Alexandrowka 16 Boehm Christian 27 Jun 1917 Alexandrowka Margarethe 11 Oct 1915 Steinberg Albert 3 Sep 1942 Hagendorf 17 Boehm Ida 3 Sep 1922 Alexandrowka Anton 17 Jan 1926 Alexandrowka Lydia 7 Oct 1927 Alexandrowka Eugenia 30 Mar 1930 Alexandrowka 18 Boehm Florentine 6 Oct 1915 Alexandrowka Artur 15 Feb 1939 Alexandrowka 19 Boehm Monika 18 Jun 1882 Katharinental Johann 4 Dec 1919 Steinberg 20 Boehm Zitta 31 Jan 1920 Johannestal Caecilia 27 Feb 1940 Alexandrowka 21 Boehm Otilie 21 Jun 1906 Alexandrowka Markus 21 Jun 1929 Alexandrowka Viktoria 12 Jan 1930 Alexandrowka Lukas 18 Apr 1931 Alexandrowka Elisabeth 18 May 1933 Alexandrowka Adolf 3 Jun 1935 Alexandrowka see: DAI records...

62 Tauberger Rosalie 27 Jul 1900 Katharinental Rudolf 24 Jan 1928 Alexandrowka Ludmilla 17 Jan 1930 Alexandrowka Adelina 10 Aug 1931 Alexandrowka Otilia 2 Aug 1934 Alexandrowka Katharine 27 Jun 1936 Alexandrowka Nikodemus 1 Sep 1938 Alexandrowka see: DAI records...