Then it would seem that no one has proven anything, and since documentation has not appeared, likely are not going to! As far as the ~deaths~ go, that is theoretical too... If it's all Theory... In Quote: http://progenealogists.com/palproject/va/1717germ.htm "Second Germanna Colony, Apr 1717 This emigrants left their villages in southern Germany (Baden and Württemberg) about 12 Jul 1717 enroute for Pennsylvania by way of London. Starvation took the lives of several of the passengers (probably 50 people perished, most of them children) who had been swindled by their captain who was retained in London. The ship held about 138 passengers and did not land in Pennsylvania but to Virginia where the passengers were sold as indentured servants to Governor Spotswood. The base for this reconstructed list comes from: Before Germanna by Gary J. Zimmerman and Johni Cerny The Second Germanna Colony of 1717, Other Germanna Pioneers, the So-called Third Germanna Colony of 1719, and Late Comers to the Hebron Church Community" by B.C. Holtzclaw in The Germanna Record (1965) 6: 51-74." -----Original Message----- From: germanna_colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:germanna_colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Suzanne Matson Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:26 PM To: germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Utterbachs in First Colony? A statement made in Trupbach that someone went to Virginia is not the same as arriving in Virginia.  Many people left Europe to come to the colonies who died at sea.  Hermann Otterbach could have died enroute to England, could have died in England or could have died at sea before arriving in the Virginia colony.  He could have moved elsewhere.  From, Ortisgeschichte Trupbach by Dieter Trops and Udo Bohn, published by  Herausgegeen vom Heimatverein Trupbach, Siegen-Trupbach, 1989, there is a  history of many of the homes in Trupbach, one of which is the Otterbach house  "Welmes."    On pg 211 for the history of "Welmes", it states  that Hermannus Otterbach lived here in 1707, but that he went to  Virginia--"ausgewandert nach Virginia" and that the next occupant of the house  was Johann Jacob Schneider in 1712. Below, Dr. Holtzclaw does not explain the facts to which he refers. BC Holtzclaw's, Ancestry and Descendants of the Nassau-Siegen Immigrants to  Virginia 1714-1750, the section on the Otterbach/Utterback Family:  Pg. 482 "We have indicated that Hermann Otterbach and all his family emigrated to  Virginia in 1714.  This is in accordance with tradition, and fits in with  the facts.  Hermann Otterbach, his wife, and his two sons, however, all  seem to have died early in Virginia, perhaps before the 1714 group moved to  Germantown about 1719."**See the information below Melchior Brumbach left without permission. Suzanne Collins Matson

Not to become lost in a disagreement over theories, the point is that one Theory is no better, or no worse, than another Theory. -----Original Message----- From: germanna_colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:germanna_colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Don Johnson Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:16 AM To: germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Utterbachs in First Colony? Then it would seem that no one has proven anything, and since documentation has not appeared, likely are not going to! As far as the ~deaths~ go, that is theoretical too... If it's all Theory... <snip>