Hi Cary-- Allow me just to venture a thought abut the social status of the emigrants from Germany. I have long wondered how a "serf" would get the wherewithall to travel down the Rhine, pay all the tolls, and get the ship to England -- often with a family in tow -- even if the plan was to pay for passage by being indentured. Young men, maybe, who could work their passage -- young men from Schwaigern have been described as slipping out during the night -- , but families? I wonder if the families that left weren't a little higher on the scale. Small farmers who had their own land to sell; artisans who perhaps had a house, a loom, some tools to sell. The immigrant John George Schaible, for example, was a weaver. (See Patricia Lowe's article about him in the September issue of the GRG Journal, www.germannacolonies.org.) A.G. Roeber in his book "Palatines, Liberty and Property: German Lutherans in Colonial British America," (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 2003, 2008), describes inventories of the estates of villagers and small towns in Wurttemberg, the Kraichgau area, and the Palatine. He says that books were present in almost every inventory in Wurttemberg, although slightly less so in the Kraichgau and fewer in the Palatinate. He also describes the towns of the wine-growing areas that our ancestors lived in as being fairly prosperous. But the small holders and the small artisans could be pressed by bad weather and population growth, and they had to struggle to maintain themselves. I would think that this class of people would be more likely to produce our immigrant families than a landless serf. Just a thought--I have had a hard time finding books about the material and social culture of SW Germany, at that time, that are in English. Would love to hear from others. Ginnie -------------------------------------------------- From: "Cary Anderson" <drcary@cox.net> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 1:15 PM To: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com>; <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > Rarely, was the child not baptized in the parish church is the info I've > gained from my close friends who are genealogical and historical experts > in > Germany. In severe cases and with clout, it was occasionally done. It > was > in Bismarck's days when the rights of the nobility to basically "own" the > peasants was abolished. Remember the last king of independent country of > Bavarian? Ludwig the Mad! He bankrupted a lot of the nobility. You can > imagine what happened to the peasantry! > > Remember, these folks that left Germany for America and elsewhere were > usually quite poor serf's bound to the local baron or count! In many > cases > they were looked upon as just a bit about the cows, pigs, hogs, etc. > > In Wittenberg, it was in 1738 when the ban on leaving without permission > was > lifted for the peasants. > > Few folks leave a good life to venture to the unknown. That was even more > so back into he 1700s. > > I, myself, have mental pictures based on the very nice homes, etc., seen > in > the villages of Germany. One must remember the Marshall plan was also > used > to modernized homes outside and in that were not destroyed in WWII. > > I am so glad that this list is so much more active that the past couple > years. > > Keep it up folks. > > Cary > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com> > To: <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 9:17 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > > > I was baptized on my day of birth due to being so sickly and my chance of > survival was slim. Two of my older brothers had the same condition and > both > died within 1 and 3 days of birth. I would say that the fact that the > mother > did not attend may be an indicator that the mother and child has a rough > time of it, and that their religous beliefs were that a person needed to > be > baptised to have entry to Heaven... > > Kathy > TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Virginia, Your observations are right on the make. Various emigrants from various villages did hold land. They also had a few head of livestock. All had lots of pigs. [There was a pig war in the area around Gemmingen and north.] The peasants won. [Peasant does not always mean poverty stricken. But some were at various times.] At times most of the citizens of a village were rather comfortable. At other times, perhaps no so happy. Just like today. It was obvious to those that had land holdings on their own, that with large families, the plots were getting smaller and smaller. By hook or crook they decide to move own. There is only one reason that most came. The man had married a lady of quality and had to hit the road with her. Maybe once in awhile, but the only one I have run into that was close to the Baron was the Volck family of Wagenbach. One of the sons in the early 1700s married into the nobility at Obergimpern. Very shortly he had converted to the Catholic religion which was very popular with the females of Obergimpern. Not the Volck fellow; become Catholic. I found few men begin baptized, but lot so women, by the Catholic priest. They still went to the same building for worship until 1910. Catholics at 9, protestants at 11. More went to Russia than came to America in those days. They scattered to the four winds. I was surprised when in the way south of Chile to find that it was basically settled by Germans. One still sees the traditional carts being used there. Lovely country and great climate! Excellent wine also! Cary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia Nuta" <vrnuta@verizon.net> To: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com>; <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > Hi Cary-- > > Allow me just to venture a thought abut the social status of the emigrants > from Germany. I have long wondered how a "serf" would get the wherewithall > to travel down the Rhine, pay all the tolls, and get the ship to England -- > often with a family in tow -- even if the plan was to pay for passage by > being indentured. Young men, maybe, who could work their passage -- young > men from Schwaigern have been described as slipping out during the night -- > , but families? > > I wonder if the families that left weren't a little higher on the scale. > Small farmers who had their own land to sell; artisans who perhaps had a > house, a loom, some tools to sell. The immigrant John George Schaible, for > example, was a weaver. (See Patricia Lowe's article about him in the > September issue of the GRG Journal, www.germannacolonies.org.) > > A.G. Roeber in his book "Palatines, Liberty and Property: German Lutherans > in Colonial British America," (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, > 2003, 2008), describes inventories of the estates of villagers and small > towns in Wurttemberg, the Kraichgau area, and the Palatine. He says that > books were present in almost every inventory in Wurttemberg, although > slightly less so in the Kraichgau and fewer in the Palatinate. He also > describes the towns of the wine-growing areas that our ancestors lived in as > being fairly prosperous. But the small holders and the small artisans could > be pressed by bad weather and population growth, and they had to struggle to > maintain themselves. I would think that this class of people would be more > likely to produce our immigrant families than a landless serf. > > Just a thought--I have had a hard time finding books about the material and > social culture of SW Germany, at that time, that are in English. Would love > to hear from others. > > Ginnie > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Cary Anderson" <drcary@cox.net> > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 1:15 PM > To: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com>; <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > > > Rarely, was the child not baptized in the parish church is the info I've > > gained from my close friends who are genealogical and historical experts > > in > > Germany. In severe cases and with clout, it was occasionally done. It > > was > > in Bismarck's days when the rights of the nobility to basically "own" the > > peasants was abolished. Remember the last king of independent country of > > Bavarian? Ludwig the Mad! He bankrupted a lot of the nobility. You can > > imagine what happened to the peasantry! > > > > Remember, these folks that left Germany for America and elsewhere were > > usually quite poor serf's bound to the local baron or count! In many > > cases > > they were looked upon as just a bit about the cows, pigs, hogs, etc. > > > > In Wittenberg, it was in 1738 when the ban on leaving without permission > > was > > lifted for the peasants. > > > > Few folks leave a good life to venture to the unknown. That was even more > > so back into he 1700s. > > > > I, myself, have mental pictures based on the very nice homes, etc., seen > > in > > the villages of Germany. One must remember the Marshall plan was also > > used > > to modernized homes outside and in that were not destroyed in WWII. > > > > I am so glad that this list is so much more active that the past couple > > years. > > > > Keep it up folks. > > > > Cary > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com> > > To: <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 9:17 AM > > Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > > > > > > I was baptized on my day of birth due to being so sickly and my chance of > > survival was slim. Two of my older brothers had the same condition and > > both > > died within 1 and 3 days of birth. I would say that the fact that the > > mother > > did not attend may be an indicator that the mother and child has a rough > > time of it, and that their religous beliefs were that a person needed to > > be > > baptised to have entry to Heaven... > > > > Kathy > > TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 > > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 > > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ginnie, I think you are on the right track. Our German ancestors who left what is now Germany certainly weren't destitute. If they were, they certainly couldn't afford to come to America. Most were artisans of some sort and had the wherewithal to afford the trip. Sarge At 9/5/2011 02:29 PM Monday, Virginia Nuta wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >Hi Cary-- > >Allow me just to venture a thought abut the social status of the emigrants >from Germany. I have long wondered how a "serf" would get the wherewithall >to travel down the Rhine, pay all the tolls, and get the ship to England -- >often with a family in tow -- even if the plan was to pay for passage by >being indentured. Young men, maybe, who could work their passage -- young >men from Schwaigern have been described as slipping out during the night -- >, but families? > >I wonder if the families that left weren't a little higher on the scale. >Small farmers who had their own land to sell; artisans who perhaps had a >house, a loom, some tools to sell. The immigrant John George Schaible, for >example, was a weaver. (See Patricia Lowe's article about him in the >September issue of the GRG Journal, www.germannacolonies.org.) > >A.G. Roeber in his book "Palatines, Liberty and Property: German Lutherans >in Colonial British America," (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, >2003, 2008), describes inventories of the estates of villagers and small >towns in Wurttemberg, the Kraichgau area, and the Palatine. He says that >books were present in almost every inventory in Wurttemberg, although >slightly less so in the Kraichgau and fewer in the Palatinate. He also >describes the towns of the wine-growing areas that our ancestors lived in as >being fairly prosperous. But the small holders and the small artisans could >be pressed by bad weather and population growth, and they had to struggle to >maintain themselves. I would think that this class of people would be more >likely to produce our immigrant families than a landless serf. > >Just a thought--I have had a hard time finding books about the material and >social culture of SW Germany, at that time, that are in English. Would love >to hear from others. > >Ginnie > > > >-------------------------------------------------- >From: "Cary Anderson" <drcary@cox.net> >Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 1:15 PM >To: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com>; <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> >Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > >> Rarely, was the child not baptized in the parish church is the info I've >> gained from my close friends who are genealogical and historical experts >> in >> Germany. In severe cases and with clout, it was occasionally done. It >> was >> in Bismarck's days when the rights of the nobility to basically "own" the >> peasants was abolished. Remember the last king of independent country of >> Bavarian? Ludwig the Mad! He bankrupted a lot of the nobility. You can >> imagine what happened to the peasantry! >> >> Remember, these folks that left Germany for America and elsewhere were >> usually quite poor serf's bound to the local baron or count! In many >> cases >> they were looked upon as just a bit about the cows, pigs, hogs, etc. >> >> In Wittenberg, it was in 1738 when the ban on leaving without permission >> was >> lifted for the peasants. >> >> Few folks leave a good life to venture to the unknown. That was even more >> so back into he 1700s. >> >> I, myself, have mental pictures based on the very nice homes, etc., seen >> in >> the villages of Germany. One must remember the Marshall plan was also >> used >> to modernized homes outside and in that were not destroyed in WWII. >> >> I am so glad that this list is so much more active that the past couple >> years. >> >> Keep it up folks. >> >> Cary >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com> >> To: <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 9:17 AM >> Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth >> >> >> I was baptized on my day of birth due to being so sickly and my chance of >> survival was slim. Two of my older brothers had the same condition and >> both >> died within 1 and 3 days of birth. I would say that the fact that the >> mother >> did not attend may be an indicator that the mother and child has a rough >> time of it, and that their religous beliefs were that a person needed to >> be >> baptised to have entry to Heaven... >> >> Kathy >> TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 >> http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 >> http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html