Thanks for this information.  I don't believe this John Kemper ca 1822 is the same John Kemper [probably Sr.] of Dicks River area of Garrard Co., KY who is my ancestor.  His son, George Nimrod Kemper of Garrard Co., KY predeceased him, the father, and the father John had to finish raising G.N.'s children.  And, if I can believe other records, G. N.'s widow (Nancy Kelly) died a couple of years after that. No wonder the Kemper children scattered here and there--mine to Texas to fight the Texian Revolution ca 1835, and others to Missouri!!!! As I have learned from the several-decades' worth of lectures on German research, nearly all the children in a certain German family would have the same first name--saint's name, if I recall those lectures, and the second name was the *calling* name.  So--there are lots of John Kempers out there, because the English-speaking county clerks were used to the first name being the *calling* name. And, amazing to me, was that other German relatives of the same surname seemed to have come in at Philadelphia and joined their cousins in Virginia. So, those relatives of my original First Germanna Colony John Kemper are NOT all his kids, I think!!!!  He is alleged to have entered Virginia in 1714 as a bachelor, and yet, in some Virgina colony tax lists, lo and behold, here are some adult (?) male Kempers!!! I believe that was in Stafford Co., one of those famed *burned* counties of Virginia.  (Maybe they were not adults.  In the Northern Neck land grants, I noted that in 1741 John Kemper of Prince William Co. obtained a NN grant for his daughters and one son:  Heni [Henry?], Catherine and Maria.  The land was on Great Run of Rappahannock adj. John Kemper's other land.(Northern Neck Land Grant E-408, dated 22 Jan 1741.) Listed in some Stafford Co., VA Northern Neck residents & landowners are these Kemper males: Kemper, Jacob - 1728/9  Rappahannock River Kemper, John   - 1728/9  Rappahannock River Kemper, Peter -  1728/9   Rappahannock River (Source:  John Vogt & T. William Kethley, Jr:  Stafford County Virginia Tithables, 1723-1790:  Quit Rents, Personal Property Taxes & related lists and petiotions, Two volumes [Athens, GA:  Iberian Publishing co., 1990] p. 121-122) (I am assuming these are all adults.  Although, in a lecture long ago by an archivist at the Library of Virginia, we were told that minors could own property, but they could not sell it until of age.  Also, as minors, if deemed old enough to know what they were witnessing, they could also be witnesses--even females, as I have found.  Interesting!) Isn't this hobby a crazy-making one?  Always discovering some information which shatter your original hypothesis!!! Thanks for the entry. E.W. Wallace ________________________________ From: June Fikac <cpzb4@aol.com> To: twssls@flash.net; vafauqui@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2011 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [VAFAUQUI] Thornton Christie and Alexander Welch 14 pages, chancery CHRISTIE, Charles & Letitia Ball, Aug. 3, 1822 - bdsm: John Kemper CHRISTIE, Charles & Mrs. Elizabeth Richards, Jun. 24, 1826 - bdsm: d/o George Monroe; MR (OGI) (bride Elizabeth Richards) CHRISTIE, Thornton & Rebecca Smith, Jan. 10, 1825 - bdsm: Alex. Welch CHRISTY, Charles & Nancy Smith, Dec. 23, 1786 - bdsm: d/o John; MR (PIC) (date of MR Dec. 25, 1786) CHRISTY, Henry & Nelly Sinclair, Sep. 9, 1833 - bdsm: d/o Archibald Click on this site http://www.lva.virginia.gov/chancery/full_case_detail.asp?CFN=061-1830-122#img Index Number    1830-122 Locality: Fauquier County Plaintiff(s) Defendant(s) ALEXANDER WELCH THORNTON CHRISTIE June cpzb4@aol.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VAFAUQUI-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Holtzclaw, Thomas and Smith families were on Dick's River also. 3-28-1781 Surveyed for Zachariah Smith acres in Lincoln Co. on waters of Dick River 880 acres-- 400 acres as certificate for settlement crossing Harrods Run to John Bowmans' line to Adam Fisher's line to James Harrod corner -- Warrant 147 Grant # 111 and 112 for above acreage GB 1 page 638 Sept 1-1782 paid 192 pounds CERTIFICATE BOOK OF THE VIRGINIA LAND COMMISSION June 21, 1780 Book 1 page 76 Lincoln Co, KY # 728 Michael Thomas enters 400 acres right of settlement lying on the south side of Dick's River adjoining George Teator to include his improvement (originally issued Kentucky Co., VA). Michael paid 400 pounds on June 27, 1780 for his preemption warrant of 1000 acres Land Entry 8 Feb 1780 Jacob Holtzclaw enters 400 acres. Survey 27 July 1781. Granted 1 Dec 1782 to Jacob Holzclaw by Benjamin Harrison, Gov of VA. Grant Book G page 299 100 acres of this land was sold to Jacob Holzclaw, Jr. on 22 Apr 1794. Preemption Warrant #: 146 Name: Holtsclaw, Jacob County: Kentucky Type #1: Settlement Acreage #1: 400 Type #2: Preemption Acreage #2: 1000 Location/Watercourse: north side of Dicks River Assignee #1: Fishback, Jacob paid 400 pounds on 3-15-1780 for the 1000 acres preemptive claim of Jacob Holtsclaw Issue Date: 1/28/1780 Authorized: VA 0030.0; VA 0031.0; VA 0042.0; VA 0139.0; VA 0306.0 Preemption Warrant #146 included on Library of Virginia microfilm Thanks for this information. I don't believe this John Kemper ca 1822 is the same John Kemper [probably Sr.] of Dicks River area of Garrard Co., KY who is my ancestor.

Thank you for this addition to my knowledge. Wherever I find Holtzclaws, sometimes in the adjoining county, I generally find Kempers.  Some books of early marriages in Kentucky show multiple marriages of these two families.  And of course, one of the sisters of my John Frederick Kemper of Garrard Co. KY and later of Victoria Co., TX married Lytle [sp?] Smith of Garrard Co.  If my memory is not scrambled, I believe I found Smith as an immigrant to Missouri but he later returned to Garrard Co. after his wife died.  The Holtzclaw males seemingly had the knowledge of how to acquire land in both Virginia and in Kentucky (which did not become a state until 1792).  The Kempers frequently bought land from them, not being the first grantees or patentees. My advice to those who have lost their Kentucky relatives;  Look in Missouri.  Or Indiana.  Or even Illinois. Possibly the website for General Land Office--Bureau of Land Management may give a hint.  Also, I learned many years to my delight that the Missouri Historical Society has a great collection of Missouri papers--even legal newspapers, where my researcher found a very-much-needed obituary which gave good genealogical detail of the deceased wife of an attorney, who was a cousin to my great-grandfather.  And, of course, that cousin grew up in a *burned* county in Illinois!!! E.W.Wallace ________________________________ From: "gneolog@aol.com" <gneolog@aol.com> To: hdanw@verizon.net; germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 5:52 AM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] [VAFAUQUI] Response toThornton Christie and Alexander Welch 14 pages, chancery Holtzclaw, Thomas and Smith families were on Dick's River also. 3-28-1781 Surveyed for Zachariah Smith acres in Lincoln Co. on waters of Dick River  880 acres-- 400 acres as certificate for settlement crossing Harrods Run to John Bowmans' line to Adam Fisher's line to James Harrod corner -- Warrant 147 Grant # 111 and 112 for above acreage GB 1 page 638 Sept 1-1782 paid 192 pounds CERTIFICATE BOOK OF THE VIRGINIA LAND COMMISSION June 21, 1780 Book 1 page 76 Lincoln Co, KY # 728 Michael Thomas enters 400 acres right of settlement  lying on the south side of Dick's River adjoining George Teator to include his improvement (originally issued Kentucky Co., VA). Michael paid 400 pounds on June 27, 1780 for his preemption warrant of 1000 acres Land Entry 8 Feb 1780 Jacob Holtzclaw enters 400 acres.  Survey 27 July 1781. Granted 1 Dec 1782 to Jacob Holzclaw by Benjamin Harrison, Gov of VA. Grant Book G page 299 100 acres of this land was sold to Jacob Holzclaw, Jr. on 22 Apr 1794.        Preemption Warrant #: 146  Name: Holtsclaw, Jacob     County: Kentucky Type #1: Settlement     Acreage #1: 400 Type #2: Preemption     Acreage #2: 1000 Location/Watercourse: north side of Dicks River     Assignee #1: Fishback, Jacob paid 400 pounds on 3-15-1780 for the 1000 acres preemptive claim of Jacob Holtsclaw    Issue Date: 1/28/1780     Authorized: VA 0030.0; VA 0031.0; VA 0042.0; VA 0139.0; VA 0306.0 Preemption Warrant #146 included on Library of Virginia microfilm Thanks for this information.  I don't believe this John Kemper ca 1822 is the same John Kemper [probably Sr.] of Dicks River area of Garrard Co., KY who is my ancestor.