I have made the statement that there were no known miners in the First Germanna Colony. I will review my reasons here and invite responses. I know that some of the First Colonists had ancestors who were involved in the iron industry, either in mining, smelting, or working. What I looking for here is evidence that any on the colonists were actually miners. Johann Justus Albrecht. This oft-overlooked man in the First Colony has some claim to being a miner if we are to believe his inflated statements. His attempts to raise money in London imply that he was a miner. Melchoir Brombach. He was 28 and old enough to have been working for a period of time. However, I have no evidence that he was a miner. Jost Cuntz. Again, there is no known evidence that he ever mined. Philipp Fischbach. An occupation for him is unknown. Henrich Haeger. He was clearly a minister and teacher. Johannes Hoffman. He was a carpenter. Peter Hitt (Heite?). No occupation known. (to be continued) John.Blankenbaker@comcast.net -- John.Blankenbaker@comcast.net

________________________________ From: "john.blankenbaker@comcast.net" <john.blankenbaker@comcast.net> Subject: [GERMANNA] Miners in the First Colony? (Part II) I believe that the history of the First Germanna Colony overemphasizes that they were miners. In fact, there seems to me to be a lack of any evidence that any of them (except Albrecht) were miners. Please submit your evidence if you have any. John.Blankenbaker@comcast.net I agree with you that the history overemphasizes the miner connection.  My question is why was the story perpetuated once it was known to be untrue?  Suzanne Collins Matson

The economic state of the Siegerland at the time the First Germanna Colony left was chaotic and depressed. This was brought out by the late Heinz Prinz in his talk to the Germanna Foundation at their 2002 Reunion. His remarks were printed in the Germanna Foundation 2002 Winter Newsletter and in Beyond Germanna (vol. 14, n.2, p. 855). Though the Siegerland had been an economically important region in "Germany" largely due to the iron industry, the region had become stagnant in the early eighteenth century. Largely this was the result of dividing the Nassau-Orange principality into two regions with one headed by a Protestant and the other by a Catholic. Both used Siegen as their capital. The Catholic prince, William Hyazinth, of the Upper Castle claimed to be the heir to the King of England (after the death of his cousin King William III). In pursuit of this he visited the monarchs of other countries in the hope of gaining recognition. To support him, taxes were raised on his subjects. Adolf, the Protestant prince, was rebuilding the Lower Castle in Siegen and he found it necessary to increase taxes on his subjects. The severest burden in the region though arose from the ban of delivery of charcoal to the Protestant areas in the Siegerland which brought the iron working to a halt due to the lack of this vital ingredient for the smelting furnaces and forges. In addition, the sale of iron products was banned. The miners, iron workers, and their families were particularly affected by these developments and thus found themselves falling into a deep state of misery. On December 6, 1706, the subjects of the district of Weidenau (in the Catholic area) rebelled agai! nst Hya zinth while he was in Vienna attempting to obtain recognition as the heir to the principality of Orange in the southern part of France. On his return Prince William Hyazinth seized Friedrich Flender of Weidenau and convicted him without a trial and then beheaded him. Josef I, the Holy Roman Emperor, intervened and turned the administration of the Siegerland region over to the Archbishop of Cologne.This placed Siegerland under the rule of the Jesuits and living conditions did not improved in the Protestant region. On May 26, 1712, just one year before the emigration of the first Germanna Colonists, the situation became more violent when the imperial guards of the Upper Castle clashed with those of the Lower Castle resulting the death of several civilians and soldiers. Prince Adolf sought support from the King of Prussia and the Counts of Hesse. In summary, at the beginning of the 18th century, the living conditions of the miners and iron workers in the Siegerland became very bad as their troubles overflowed to all of the residents of the regions. The unemployment rate went up very sharply. It is not difficult to understand why some of the inhabitants of the Siegerland decided to leave their homeland in view of the living conditions there at the time. When Johann Justus Albrecht appeared on the scene seeking miners to the British colonies in North America, this represented an employment opportunity. Albrecht's main qualification for hiring was a willingness on the part of the workers to go and not a skill test. -- John.Blankenbaker@comcast.net

Winnie writes: Subject: [GERMANNA] Books on early marriages To: <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <6EC3EC6C38A8480A8E353E1D018AC2AE@your4dacd0ea75> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What book would list early 1650's marriages be? I do not have a date for Frances Ann Jones, d of Cadwallader Jones and Katherine ? to Robert Slaughter. All I have for their son Robert Jr. is married to Mary Smith and her birth date 30 Jul 1713. My not well-infomed response: 1. First, I believe you have to know the likely PLACE where the marriage took place. And Jones is a common name, alas!!. Slaughter will be easier. In the 1650s, it is estimated that the population of Virginia was less than 19,000. [The Hornbook of Virginia History] 2. All marriages, in order to be legal in colonial Virginia, had to take place in the Anglican church, even if you were Quaker or later Preesbyterian, as I understand it. The Anglican church was the Established church before the Revolution. The marriage records were not kept at the county level until rather late in Virginia's history, mostly after the Revolution. Therefore, you have to determine not only the county in which the marriage took place but you have to discover a vestry book for the appropriate parish. And the two are not contiguous [more or less the right word]. In my experience, there are not a great many surviving parish vestry books for Virginia. You might find more information about vestry books on the Library of Virginia website--or post a question to one of the librrarians--on the net. [The Hornbook of Virginia History, at least the 4th edition, has a list of all the parishes in Virginia. Most counties had at least two parishes, and some seem to have had five!!! I quit reading!] 3. Since most of our ancestors in Virginia sooner or later got land--unless they died while working off their indentures, which sometimes seem interminable--your best bet is to determine who the landowners are--and where. See below. According to lectures I have attended, in Virginia, most of the time.when a married man sold his land to another party, his wife had to sign a relinquishment of dower [try Wikipedia for that explanation!], and that is how one tells when a man is married--and the name of his wife [but not her maiden name, unless it is an unusual deed. [One of the lecturers I most admire is from North Carolina, and she said in a long-ago lecture that in Norrth Carolina, a wife was not required to sign such a relinquishment. But if she does, she probably has Virginia roots!!!] Have you found your Jones ancestor in the Land Grants of Virginia? I personally depend a LOT on the eight volumes of Cavaliers and Pioneers and Gertrude E. Gray's abstracts of Northern Neck land grants. But, an easier way for you to search for your Jones fellow is to use the Library of Virginia website and search the land grant abstracts by surname. Most of the time [there are always exceptions], the abstract will give the county in which the land was located AT THAT TIME. All Virginia counties seemed to keep dividing as the population grew, and so one has to keep searching!!!! (lots of fun!!!) _http://www.lva.lib.va.us/whatwehave/land/index.htm_ (http://www.lva.lib.va.us/whatwehave/land/index.htm) This online index begins with the latest land grant [maybe, even the 21st or 20th century] and goes down to the earliest ones. You will have a whale of time searching for Joneses!!! Again, because most books in libraries which I have attended are shelved by PLACE, you do need to know where your folks lived--one or many counties, perhaps. Golly, we have to be wonderful detectives to do genealogy, and it takes years of study, and never do you learn it all!!! E.W.Wallace who has made many mistakes but never gives up!!! Here is a very useful URL for information about the formation of Virginia counties. You use dates to determine which set of maps you want to view. _http://www.myvirginiagenealogy.com/va_maps/va_cf.htm_ (http://www.myvirginiagenealogy.com/va_maps/va_cf.htm) Remove any punctuation fore and aft which AOL may add to the URL. . **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)

What book would list early 1650's marriages be? I do not have a date for Frances Ann Jones, d of Cadwallader Jones and Katherine ? to Robert Slaughter. All I have for their son Robert Jr. is married to Mary Smith and her birth date 30 Jul 1713.

Hi,  if you get a few spare minutes -- would you check this book for Callison (or similar), PLEASE. Thanks a bunch. Marilyn Hansen I have a book from a now-defunct publishing company, which book is entitled Orange County, Virginia, Court Orders, 1734-1741: An Every-Name Index [Miami Beach, FL: TLC Genealogy, 1994] -----Original Message----- From: Hdanw@aol.com To: GERMANNA_COLONIES-L@rootsweb.com; persisto@earthlink.net Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 10:25 am Subject: [GERMANNA] Missing Germanna Colonists--Perhaps in Orange Co. VA Craig Kilby asks a question: From: Craig Kilby <persisto@earthlink.net> Subject: [GERMANNA] Nathaniel Yager, Jr. To: germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com I'm afraid I can't help you with the Collins, but this does raise a question. I have in my database the Nathaniel5 Yager in question (Nathaniel4, Adam3, Adam2, Nicholas1) married Frances PETTY. I have no idea where I came by that information, and there is no marriage record for them in either Culpeper or Madison counties. Does anyone have in evidence and source documentation for this marriage? Craig My answer to Craig and other interested parties, I have a book from a now-defunct publishing company, which book is entitled Orange County, Virginia, Court Orders, 1734-1741: An Every-Name Index [Miami Beach, FL: TLC Genealogy, 1994] Orange co. was formed 1734 from Spotsylvania Co. According to my atlas of the formation of Virginia boundaries, that newly formed county had no western boundary and seemingly encompassed what is now West Virginia. From Orange Co. Frederick Co. was formed 1743. Culpeper Co. was formed from Orange Co. in 1749. [SEE BELOW] Madison Co. is a latecomer, being formed in 1793, after the Revolution. The index I cited above has a few names which I recognize from the writings of John Blankenbaker, among them Yager/Yeager [Craig's ancestor?], Zimmerman, Wilhite, Cobler [several variants], Amberger, Blankenbyechler, Blankerbucker, Brupecker, Glore, and probably many others which I do not immediately recognize. Anyway, Craig, the surname Petty also appears in this index. The given names are John, Martha, Thomas, and Thomas Sr., probably the father of the others! The Yagers who appear in this index are Adam and Susanna--in the first order book. Oh, yes, and then there Yeagers: Adam and Nicholas, who also appear in the first order book. I know little of Orange Co., unfortunately, although I was there in the spring and wheedled the county clerk to give me a few photocopies of the early deed indexes with selected names. She had to confer with her supervisor. She did not think too many photocopies should be given to a requestor, as they might be put on the internet!!! (I think it may be inevitable!!! but who am I to discuss Virginia's laws?) I checked with the Family History Library catalog on _www.familysearch.org_ (http://www.familysearch.org) - the link to the Library [tab at top] and chose *catalog* on drop-down menu. Therese A. Fisher compiled a book of early Orange Co. marriages, but it encompasses other counties also. Marriage records of the city of Fredericksburg, and of Orange, Spotsylvania and Stafford counties, Virginia 1722-1850 If you cannot find this book in a library near you, you can request [on a form which you can download] that the index of the book be photocopied for you. There is a fee for this, but think of the coast of a gallon of gasoline!!!. Or a Starbucks fancy coffee!!! E.W.Wallace My trusty, dog-eared atlas: Michael F. Doran, Atlas of County Boundary Changes in Virginia, 1634-1895 [Athens, GA: Iberian Publishing Co., 1987] Iberian Publishing Co. is now New Papyrus Publishing, but I believe if you google for Iberian Publ. Co., you will be directed to the right place. **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Craig Kilby asks a question: From: Craig Kilby <persisto@earthlink.net> Subject: [GERMANNA] Nathaniel Yager, Jr. To: germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com I'm afraid I can't help you with the Collins, but this does raise a question. I have in my database the Nathaniel5 Yager in question (Nathaniel4, Adam3, Adam2, Nicholas1) married Frances PETTY. I have no idea where I came by that information, and there is no marriage record for them in either Culpeper or Madison counties. Does anyone have in evidence and source documentation for this marriage? Craig My answer to Craig and other interested parties, I have a book from a now-defunct publishing company, which book is entitled Orange County, Virginia, Court Orders, 1734-1741: An Every-Name Index [Miami Beach, FL: TLC Genealogy, 1994] Orange co. was formed 1734 from Spotsylvania Co. According to my atlas of the formation of Virginia boundaries, that newly formed county had no western boundary and seemingly encompassed what is now West Virginia. From Orange Co. Frederick Co. was formed 1743. Culpeper Co. was formed from Orange Co. in 1749. [SEE BELOW] Madison Co. is a latecomer, being formed in 1793, after the Revolution. The index I cited above has a few names which I recognize from the writings of John Blankenbaker, among them Yager/Yeager [Craig's ancestor?], Zimmerman, Wilhite, Cobler [several variants], Amberger, Blankenbyechler, Blankerbucker, Brupecker, Glore, and probably many others which I do not immediately recognize. Anyway, Craig, the surname Petty also appears in this index. The given names are John, Martha, Thomas, and Thomas Sr., probably the father of the others! The Yagers who appear in this index are Adam and Susanna--in the first order book. Oh, yes, and then there Yeagers: Adam and Nicholas, who also appear in the first order book. I know little of Orange Co., unfortunately, although I was there in the spring and wheedled the county clerk to give me a few photocopies of the early deed indexes with selected names. She had to confer with her supervisor. She did not think too many photocopies should be given to a requestor, as they might be put on the internet!!! (I think it may be inevitable!!! but who am I to discuss Virginia's laws?) I checked with the Family History Library catalog on _www.familysearch.org_ (http://www.familysearch.org) - the link to the Library [tab at top] and chose *catalog* on drop-down menu. Therese A. Fisher compiled a book of early Orange Co. marriages, but it encompasses other counties also. Marriage records of the city of Fredericksburg, and of Orange, Spotsylvania and Stafford counties, Virginia 1722-1850 If you cannot find this book in a library near you, you can request [on a form which you can download] that the index of the book be photocopied for you. There is a fee for this, but think of the coast of a gallon of gasoline!!!. Or a Starbucks fancy coffee!!! E.W.Wallace My trusty, dog-eared atlas: Michael F. Doran, Atlas of County Boundary Changes in Virginia, 1634-1895 [Athens, GA: Iberian Publishing Co., 1987] Iberian Publishing Co. is now New Papyrus Publishing, but I believe if you google for Iberian Publ. Co., you will be directed to the right place. **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)

>From looking at hand written notes from Lorena Willhoite and her husband's notes in Owen County, she has John Wilhite born 1747 and I have 1745. The death date of 17 2 1837 is correct, if his tombstone is correct. Lorena at the time was tracing the marriage of Henry Anderson Wilhoite to Elizabeth Clark. She did say that most of the information came from Germanna Record, No 13. about Michael and Mary Blankenbaker. I have this magazine. She had Henry Anderson Wilhoite and Elizabeth buried road 127-S six miles from Owenton, KY. If Michael married Mary Ballenger in 1756 at age 43 John couldn't be born in 1745. I do not have a Blankenbaker listed. Any proof on the date of the marriage of John Wilhite and Lucy Stapp other than c 1769? John on Orange County Va Census Oct. 1782, 1780-82 Virginia Rev. Publick Claims, Rev. War No S14833 Have three Wihite(Willhoit, sic) Families in my direct line so it gets complicated.

> Therese A. Fisher compiled a book of early Orange Co. marriages, but it > encompasses other counties also. > > Marriage records of the city of Fredericksburg, and of Orange, > Spotsylvania > and Stafford counties, Virginia 1722-1850 *********************** I have this book. Alas, the marriage of Nathaniel Yager and Frances Petty is not in it. I was in Orange and Madison about a week and a half ago. There marriage was not recorded in either of those counties. Craig, I don't have anything that confirms Frances' last name. Cathi

I'm afraid I can't help you with the Collins, but this does raise a question. I have in my database the Nathaniel5 Yager in question (Nathaniel4, Adam3, Adam2, Nicholas1) married Frances PETTY. I have no idea where I came by that information, and there is no marriage record for them in either Culpeper or Madison counties. Does anyone have in evidence and source documentation for this marriage? Craig On Nov 1, 2008, at 3:00 AM, germanna_colonies-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Mary's obituary indicates that she was the daugher of Nathaniel and > Frances Yager, was born in 1839 in Culpeper County,

I was recently contacted by a descendant of and Edward Collins that married Mary Ellen Yager. Mary's obituary indicates that she was the daugher of Nathaniel and Frances Yager, was born in 1839 in Culpeper County, Virginia, married Edward Collins there in 1865 and moved to Indiana in 1885. Census records lead me to believe that he may be Edward Butler Collins, son of James and Matilda Collins. Does anyone on the list know anything about his Collins family? Could this be the same Edward Collins? Thanks, Cathi

I can add that Volk VOLCK is also FOLK now FOULK :>) Susi ************** Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)

Barbara wrote: <John Hoffman/Huffman of the First Colony was first married to Anna Catharina Haeger, the daughter of Rev. Henry Haeger and Anna Friesenhagen. Anna probably died around 1729 because John Hoffman married as his second wife, Maria Sabina Charlotte Barbara Volck, the daughter of Johann Michael Volck and Barbara Majers. Maria Sabina was born in 1710, so was around 19 when she married John Hoffman, who was born in 1692. > A couple of small additions. John is the English form for Johannes. Johannes Hoffman, except when among some of the Enlish was known as Johannes. Then, the sumary of Johann Michael Volck's second wife, Barbara. I wrestled with the spelling of her surname and finally realised that what was taken as Majers would be Maiers since the development of a distinct "i" to follow "j". At the time the name was seen as Majers in the record, the Germans as well as the English used the letter j for both the "i' and the 'j' . In some early English records of the colonies you'll find the alphabetizing puting Isaac and all other names we know that begin with an "I" under the "J". In some cases the ÿ was used, and the surname of Barbara is found written a Maÿers. I have found the surname Volck in the records of the area in and around Wagenbacher Hof written as Folg. That is the form Johannes used in his Bible for the surname of his second wife. Folg is very close to the correct pronunciation of Volck. At least that is what it sounds like when my Germans friends pronounced Volck for me. It is now spelled as Volk. All this to say: If you look at the marriages of the children and grandchildren of Johannes Hoffmann and Barbara Volck, you will find a number of intermarriages with some lst colony families. I often speculate that most desendents of first and second colonies living today descend from one or the other of the Volck sisters. The other being Louisa Elisabetha Volck who marrie Hans Dietrich Weber/Peter Weaver. I am sorry that I have never formalized my study of the wife of Hans Dietrich Weber, but what appears to be Lobis Elisabetha Weber in the communion lists, appears to be Louise not Lobis. I have found the U at that time being written in a form that would be most easily taken for a "b". Also, what appears to be the last character is actually two letters: a "s" and an "e". I am beginning to believe each scribe create a few unique characters for his alphabet just to drive people a bit over the edge 3 centuries later. Cary

To the person who is having trouble identifying *which Wilhite* in Fayette Co., VA-KY, this is to advise that in trying to solve Kentucky problems, I have found deeds--and sometimes even just the deed indexes--have helped me solve some relationship problems. I have ordered from time to time from the Family History Library in Salt Lake City just the grantor and grantee indexes of a Kentucky county--in fact, many Kentucky counties--and sometimes by the name of the grantor (in most cases), there will be the word *hrs* [heirs] or *&c* [others]. All this takes a lot of digging, but when you find the answer, you are willing to do a little dance--or some folks even make vocal noises--such as *yippee*. Most counties in Kentucky, unlike Virginia, have surivivng tax lists, and from time to time these tax lists have been published. If your Wilhite was married to a Stapp, then a search for both surnames on the tax lists may help answer your question. No doubt, you know all this, but every time we discover a new ancestor, we have to start all over again. A kind person on one of the rootsweb lists sent me some photocopies [legal size] of deeds and wills of some of my relatives. Now, I am having to start all over again, as one person we suspect was a Scots-Irish from Pennsylvania, but there are gaps in the years--where was he and his family--and did they leave any records? Ah, me. But this crazy hobby is addictive! E.W.Wallace Descendant of a First Germanna colonist--rather of several colonists! **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212416248x1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)

NOW that information is very helpful to me thanks thanks thanks.. I was plowing through books today and this is even better news. Susi ************** Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)

Another "intermingling" are the sons of Jacob Holtzclaw, the 1714 Immigrant and his second wife, Catherine (sure wish we knew her maiden name!). The 2 sons, Jacob and Joseph, married Susannah and Mary Thomas, the daughters of John Thomas. John Thomas's other daughter, Mary Barbara, was the wife of Jacob Blankenbaker. Jacob married Susannah Thomas around 1758 and Joseph married Mary Thomas around 1761. These families both lived in Culpeper Co. and I have always wondered if maybe there is a connection between the above Thomas family and Catherine Russell Thomas Holtzclaw, the wife of John Holtzclaw, son of Jacob Holtzclaw and his first wife, Anna Margreth Otterbach. Catherine was definitely married to a Thomas prior to her marriage to John and she had at least one son from that marriage. I find it interesting that 2 sons of Jacob, the Immigrant, would be acquainted with the Thomas family of the 2nd Colony as they weren't neighbors. Yet another question to be answered! Barb Price In a message dated 10/29/2008 14:43:02 Pacific Daylight Time, voodoo@wdemail.com writes: Virginia Holtzclaw, daughter of John Holtzclaw and Frances Rice, married William Clore, son of Levi Clore and Mary "Polly" Yager, on 19 DEC 1844 in Boone Co., KY... That is merely one example! Does this qualify for "Intermingling"? I'm sure that there are other examples! ~Don -----Original Message----- From: germanna_colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:germanna_colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Hdanw@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:14 PM To: GERMANNA_COLONIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [GERMANNA] Intermingling of First and Second Germanna Colonists Most of the messages on the Germanna Colonies List pertains to Second Germanna Colonists. Descendants of First Germanna colonists are noted by their absence!!! Maybe it is because we don't read Old German. Question: As far as can be determined, was there intermingling of the First Colonists with the Second Colonists? If so, can one cite some examples? Much of my research is concentrated in Fauquier Co., VA which was formed from Prince William Co. Prince William Co. was formed in 1730 from Stafford and King George counties. Stafford was formed 1664 from Westmoreland County. King George was formed in 1720 from Richmond County. Part of Westmoreland County was added later. Has anyone located the 1714 colonists in the records of any of the above-listed counties? I did find that some of the Holtzclaws were naturalized in Orange Co. **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)

John Hoffman/Huffman of the First Colony was first married to Anna Catharina Haeger, the daughter of Rev. Henry Haeger and Anna Friesenhagen. Anna probably died around 1729 because John Hoffman married as his second wife, Maria Sabina Charlotte Barbara Volck, the daughter of Johann Michael Volck and Barbara Majers. Maria Sabina was born in 1710, so was around 19 when she married John Hoffman, who was born in 1692. John Hoffman was instrumental in the First Colony, being one of the 3 immigrants that were naturalized in 1722, along with Jacob Holtzclaw and John Fishback, all of them Trustees for the rest of the 1714 Colonists. John Hoffman didn't stay at German Town, but he moved to the Robinson River and had land close to the Hebron Church. Something else that kind of makes all of this come around again in regards to John Hoffman is that 3 of his daughters married members of the The Little Fork Colony, all immigrants from Nassau-Siegen. Barb Price In a message dated 10/29/2008 18:13:48 Pacific Daylight Time, holtzclaw.research@yahoo.com writes: ________________________________ From: "Hdanw@aol.com" <Hdanw@aol.com> To: GERMANNA_COLONIES-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:14:25 PM Subject: [GERMANNA] Intermingling of First and Second Germanna Colonists I am a 1714 Germanna descendant and do read Old German. I am a Holtzclaw and Otterbach descendant. At the moment, I am researching primarily the Holtzclaw line that moved from Fauquier Co VA to Greenville Co SC with plans to expand my research as this segment is completed. >King George was formed in 1720 from Richmond County. Part of Westmoreland County was added later.< Henry Holtzclaw owned land in King George Co VA. This is not my direct line and I have not pursued this any further other than to note the name in the deed index when I was in King George County a few years ago doing some research. Suzanne Collins Matson >Most of the messages on the Germanna Colonies List pertains to Second Germanna Colonists. Descendants of First Germanna colonists are noted by their absence!!! Maybe it is because we don't read Old German.< ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)

________________________________ From: "Hdanw@aol.com" <Hdanw@aol.com> To: GERMANNA_COLONIES-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:14:25 PM Subject: [GERMANNA] Intermingling of First and Second Germanna Colonists I am a 1714 Germanna descendant and do read Old German.  I am a Holtzclaw and Otterbach descendant.  At the moment, I am researching primarily the Holtzclaw line that moved from Fauquier Co VA to Greenville Co SC with plans to expand my research as this segment is completed. >King George was formed in 1720 from Richmond County. Part of Westmoreland  County was added later.< Henry Holtzclaw owned land in King George Co VA.  This is not my direct line and I have not pursued this any further other than to note the name in the deed index when I was in King George County a few years ago doing some research. Suzanne Collins Matson >Most of the messages on the Germanna Colonies List pertains to Second  Germanna Colonists.  Descendants of First Germanna colonists are noted by  their absence!!!  Maybe it is because we don't read Old German.<

Virginia Holtzclaw, daughter of John Holtzclaw and Frances Rice, married William Clore, son of Levi Clore and Mary "Polly" Yager, on 19 DEC 1844 in Boone Co., KY... That is merely one example! Does this qualify for "Intermingling"? I'm sure that there are other examples! ~Don -----Original Message----- From: germanna_colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:germanna_colonies-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Hdanw@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:14 PM To: GERMANNA_COLONIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [GERMANNA] Intermingling of First and Second Germanna Colonists Most of the messages on the Germanna Colonies List pertains to Second Germanna Colonists. Descendants of First Germanna colonists are noted by their absence!!! Maybe it is because we don't read Old German. Question: As far as can be determined, was there intermingling of the First Colonists with the Second Colonists? If so, can one cite some examples? Much of my research is concentrated in Fauquier Co., VA which was formed from Prince William Co. Prince William Co. was formed in 1730 from Stafford and King George counties. Stafford was formed 1664 from Westmoreland County. King George was formed in 1720 from Richmond County. Part of Westmoreland County was added later. Has anyone located the 1714 colonists in the records of any of the above-listed counties? I did find that some of the Holtzclaws were naturalized in Orange Co. **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Most of the messages on the Germanna Colonies List pertains to Second Germanna Colonists. Descendants of First Germanna colonists are noted by their absence!!! Maybe it is because we don't read Old German. Question: As far as can be determined, was there intermingling of the First Colonists with the Second Colonists? If so, can one cite some examples? Much of my research is concentrated in Fauquier Co., VA which was formed from Prince William Co. Prince William Co. was formed in 1730 from Stafford and King George counties. Stafford was formed 1664 from Westmoreland County. King George was formed in 1720 from Richmond County. Part of Westmoreland County was added later. Has anyone located the 1714 colonists in the records of any of the above-listed counties? I did find that some of the Holtzclaws were naturalized in Orange Co. **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals! (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001)