*From the sideline: *First, we get a couple of post about singing Christmas carols in German, whether we understand the words or not. Then, we get a lesson in English grammar. Just thinking ....Wonder what our 1700's broken English/German speaking grandparents would have said on this subject? .... Might not want to know ! "We've come a long way, baby" ....or have we ? The Christmas service sounds wonderful ...Wish I could go! To me, Christmas is about Faith, Hope & Love...... I think most folks come to this site because of love of family, regardless of their faults or imperfections (we all have them). Somehow, I think our ancestors did a much better job loving each other than we do today.....Just something I think we can all improve upon at this special time of the year. Merry Christmas to all, PS: Hope you have snow in Va .....Maybe it will filter down to NC. Fred Duncan

Please get off of our grammar and get to genealogy. I don't care how intelligent you think you are.. are you trying to impress us? Is this group for only those who speak like you want them to or is it for the rest of us. I think a bad attitude toward your fellow man is far worse than our grammar. Some of the most intelligent men and women in the world didn't tell people to watch their grammar but they communicated with people from all walks of life with love. That show's character and true intelligence. Who would pay any attention to them if they were critical of their fellowman? Sir Winston Churchill was one of them and in my lineage and that is through his grandmother who was a Drake. . Will Roger's was known to all of us. Werner Von Braum was a personal friend of my brother and a super nice man. My brother took his place on the board of the Space Museum in Huntsville, Al when Werner died. I don't think anyone is deliberately trying to offend anyone with our poor grammar. Some of our habits may come from where we live .. like Alabama and the far north has their language too. When I was new to this group a couple of people were very rude to me about my grammar and I guess this touches a tender spot with me. This is a genealogy group. I apologize for offending anyone by answering this but I think it should be addressed so, we can do our genealogy in peace and love. Frances In a message dated 12/21/2008 9:17:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, persisto@earthlink.net writes: This is an active list with many great researchers on it. As intelligent people, we all need to be cognizant of proper netiquette procedures. Yes, it is so human to want to react immediately and hit that REPLY button. But take just a few moments to edit your responses. In other words, the old KISS theory. (Keep It Simple, Stupid). (3) Grammar. I am probably a bad offender here. Not so much for my grammar, but leaving words out of sentences and not using spell check. George is right: Words do mean things, and grammar is important. When I see a post full of misspellings, bad grammar and no logical flow to what is trying to be conveyed, you can rest assured I will not reply to that message. Why? What's the point if someone is that ignorant, trying to guess what they talking about and then replying will probably result in that person not understanding the answer anyway. If you are intelligent enough to figure out to get on a mailing list in the first place, and inquisitive enough to do your genealogical research, do take the time to write meaningful posts and replies. **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)

Fellow List Members: We have recently seen an interesting discussion on the origins of Peter Hitt, and several requests by list members to switch to digest mode. Three comments: (1) The List Administrator, George Durman, cannot switch you from "List" to "Digest" mode. You have to do that yourself, just the same way you subscribed in the first place. You first must unsubscribe from the list, then resubscribe using "digest" mode. Sending out requests for "somebody" out there to switch you to digest should not be sent to the list, or even to the list administrator. (2) When replying to any topic, in this case the Peter Hitt thread-- please do NOT repeat the entire thread. This results in one having to read over and over and over what you have already just read, plus all the tag lines for both the sender and the list message itself. If you want to REPLY to a message from Digest Mode, the default merely states the Digest Number and Message Number in the subject line. You MUST change that to refer to the topic you are replying to. Otherwise nobody will know what it is about, and won't show up in the archives under that subject. This is an active list with many great researchers on it. As intelligent people, we all need to be cognizant of proper netiquette procedures. Yes, it is so human to want to react immediately and hit that REPLY button. But take just a few moments to edit your responses. In other words, the old KISS theory. (Keep It Simple, Stupid). (3) Grammar. I am probably a bad offender here. Not so much for my grammar, but leaving words out of sentences and not using spell check. George is right: Words do mean things, and grammar is important. When I see a post full of misspellings, bad grammar and no logical flow to what is trying to be conveyed, you can rest assured I will not reply to that message. Why? What's the point if someone is that ignorant, trying to guess what they talking about and then replying will probably result in that person not understanding the answer anyway. If you are intelligent enough to figure out to get on a mailing list in the first place, and inquisitive enough to do your genealogical research, do take the time to write meaningful posts and replies. (4) Religion and Politics. I take a much more liberal view than George on inclusion of these topics, but only as they relate to our ancestors, and not espousing current day opinions on either subject. We all have our own political and religious beliefs, and it is a real digression of the purpose of the list to try to impose one's beliefs on the rest of us. It gets everyone very off-topic and is guaranteed to start a flame war. That being said, religion and politics are the very reasons why the Germanna colonists came to Virginia in the first place--and their role in subsequent events like the Revolution, westward migration, and the Civil War. There cannot be any meaningful discussion of the history of Germanna without a serious discussion of those two topics. My Two Cents, Craig

This is an E-MAIL list. The grammar does not need to be like we are writing a dissertation or formal report! Enough already. Gail Adams How r u? ha ha ha!!!! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215047751x1200957972/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)

Right George, Often wondered if, "me" is avoided due to the "me generation"? "It needs fixed!" ;>) What happened to "to be"? These both irritate me. Cousin Julie ----- Original Message Follows ----- > >.... For heaven's sake, when > the personal pronoun for "me/I" is preceded by "for", or > any other such qualifier, the proper usage is "me", not > "I". You don't say "for I" (as in "for him and I"), do > you? Or with "I"? (As "with him and I".) Our American > English grammar has fallen into the same old pit of > ignorance that ... > Not from the List Admin, but just from me, a stickler for > proper usage of English. It may not mean anything as far > as genealogy research is concerned, but it just grates on > my soul to see supposedly educated people butchering our > language. If people can't do anything else, they could at > least consult an English Grammar booklet and find out when > the pronouns "I/Me", "He/Him", "She/Her", "They/Them", > etc., should be used. There's no excuse for ignorance. > > George

The following was located in Fauquier County Va Minute Book 1768-1784: p. 286 Indentures of Lease and Release between Josiah Holtzclaw & Susannah his wife of the one part and Richard Chichester John Hathaway John Wright Jr James Brient and Peter Kamper Sen Trustees for the Presbyterian Society of the other part acknowledged by the said Josiah and Susanna (she being first privily examined as the Law directs) to be their act and deed and with the receit on the said Release endorsed which was also acknowledged by the said Josiah ordered to be recorded. The above is typed exactly as it appears in the Minute Book including spelling, punctuation, or lack thereof. Question:  To which Presbyterian Society or Church does this entry refer? This minute book is also found on microfilm #31614 from the Family History Library in Salt Lake City and is available for loan to a Family History Center. Thanks-- Suzanne Collins Matson

Sounds like our grammar really grates your nerves. What is wrong with you that you have to correct a person because they haven't spent their life in proper English. When I feel critical about people and how they don't do things the perfect way that I do.. LOL I point my finger at myself and say what is wrong with me. I like to spent time on my Wilhite's . I read a story about a Wilhite girl dying and being carried to the cemetery and woke up. (That was a story in the Madison County Homes). She was young when that happened and she lived until she was in her eighties. I like the stories about our family. Does anyone have some good ones they can share? My grandmother Laura Wilhite Drake cooked German food and her sewing was perfect. Her father Jackson Wilhite was a lawyer and farmer and he taught school for the children in the community. My mother father was one of his pupil's. He inspired him to go to law school and he did go. The Wilhite's are on my father's side of the family. My grandparent were born in the late 1800's. My mother is 101 and for those who think senior's mind's are failing .. her mind is clear and she helps me with my genealogy. She remember's all of the old folks from the late 1800's. My mother was 29 when I was born. As, we grow older we tend to be more forgiving and less concerned about things that don't matter. Sometimes, people misjudge us for being absent minded or for having loss of memory. I think it all boils down to finally really being who we are and knowing what life is all about. Merry Christmas to all my German cousin's. Frances In a message dated 12/21/2008 1:47:45 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, GermannaResearch@comcast.net writes: At Friday 19-12-08 05:44 AM, Rick Yeager wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >Let's not try to be grammar police when we change the meaning of the post >and we seem to have a problem with apostrophe usage. >(snip) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** I, personally, don't have a problem with anyone wanting others to use proper grammar, punctuation, etc. Words mean things. Punctuation means things. "Apostrophe usage" means things. Proper pronoun usage means things. I'm just sick of the present trend of people saying things like "for him and I", etc. For heaven's sake, when the personal pronoun for "me/I" is preceded by "for", or any other such qualifier, the proper usage is "me", not "I". You don't say "for I" (as in "for him and I"), do you? Or with "I"? (As "with him and I".) Our American English grammar has fallen into the same old pit of ignorance that has been afflicting us for the last 10-15 years or so. (Notice that I say "ignorance", as opposed to "stupidity". Ignorance means "not knowing, unlearned, or uneducated", whereas "stupidity" simply means "not capable of learning".) Not from the List Admin, but just from me, a stickler for proper usage of English. It may not mean anything as far as genealogy research is concerned, but it just grates on my soul to see supposedly educated people butchering our language. If people can't do anything else, they could at least consult an English Grammar booklet and find out when the pronouns "I/Me", "He/Him", "She/Her", "They/Them", etc., should be used. There's no excuse for ignorance. George ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)

In a message dated 12/21/2008 8:03:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, gneolog@aol.com writes: At the time of our ancestors arrival in this country -- I don't think there was a Santa Claus and the Feast of St. Nicholas was probably celebrated. But for all the historians in the group -- how was Advent and Christmas celebrated and what are some historical traditions. Since we are not supposed to talk religion let me just suggest visiting the web site _http://www.stnicholascenter.org_ (http://www.stnicholascenter.org) You can find out all about the real story behind St. Nicholas and how he evolved in America. One of the pages mentions Germany and traditions there. This is one I just found but have not really checked thoroughly but has some German songs etc: _http://www.billanookps.vic.edu.au/German/Resi.htm_ (http://www.billanookps.vic.edu.au/German/Resi.htm) As editor of the Howland Quarterly (a Mayflower guy) I wrote an article in 2000 about Christmas in the colonies called "No Merry Christmas" It is attached for any interested. Even though this publication is mostly about New England I did include Virginia (I am after all a Virginian!) Gail Adams Leesburg, Va p.s. I have a statue of a kneeling Santa Claus in front of baby Jesus and I have Santa's all over -- I tell my children/grandchildren that the mission if St. N. was to spread the gospel...etc. don't want to get religious.... **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215047751x1200957972/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)

I endorse SusiCP's thoughts. I will always recommend starting with the basic test that a company offers. For two reasons. First, if the company is a reputable Genealogy DNA Lab, the sample is available for further testing in the future. Second, while there is a cost savings of having the all marker test right up front my experience with my Surname DNA Project is how many tests results in no matches. So extra money wasted. >--- On Sat, 12/20/08, SusiCP@aol.com <SusiCP@aol.com> wrote: > > To preserve a YDNA I may want later I ordered the basic > test because it can always be upgraded ..

The chances of snow falling in Virginia for Christmas are very slim to none! It has been more than ten years since we had a white Christmas here. Gail Adams Leesburg, Va In a message dated 12/21/2008 8:03:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, gneolog@aol.com writes: Marc and all, the service at Germanna sounds absolutely lovely. I can picture the snow falling and Silent Night being played for the first time in the little candle lit church in Germany. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215047751x1200957972/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)

Would you be willing to share this with me. Don't worry if you don't know the language, we have specially prepared versions of the hymns that will help most any English speaking person pronounce the lyrics correctly. I would love to sing some of the old hymns in German. Larry Goettel fishing@kiva.net Larry Goettel Bishop Robert R. Roberts Memorial Association, Inc at Lawrenceport, Indiana http://www.hpcisp.com/~jsend/

Marc and all, the service at Germanna sounds absolutely lovely. I can picture the snow falling and Silent Night being played for the first time in the little candle lit church in Germany. Just wondering what German traditions might be carried on by my Germanna kin. Our grandkids do the cookies for Santa, the reindeer food, the candle in the window to lead baby Jesus and one that never deviates. Ray and I send a book to each grandchild pertaining to the real meaning of Christmas (no Santa, no snowmen, no reindeer). The books are opened and read Christmas Eve at bedtime. They have now added the Elf on the Shelf to their Christmas traditions (parents and grandparents -- this is a fun activity-- check it out a your local bookstore). They all have nativity scenes and when the kida are little they put hay "paper strips" in the crib when they are kind and sweet to others. They have advent calendars filled with a sweet each day. We eat and drink WELL on Christmas morning when openin! g our presents. At the time of our ancestors arrival in this country -- I don't think there was a Santa Claus and the Feast of St. Nicholas was probably celebrated. But for all the historians in the group -- how was Advent and Christmas celebrated and what are some historical traditions. WHEW that was a long dissertation just to get to my last point. Take care all. If you don't hear from me again before Thursday -- Merry Christmas. Marilyn

At Friday 19-12-08 05:45 AM, Rick Yeager wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >Whether one agrees or not, evolution is science. >(snip) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** Rick, while I agree with you, your reply just added to unnecessary archiving of off-topic posts to this Mailing List. NO TOPICS OF RELIGION, POLITICS, ETC.!!!!! Sarge

At Friday 19-12-08 05:44 AM, Rick Yeager wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >Let's not try to be grammar police when we change the meaning of the post >and we seem to have a problem with apostrophe usage. >(snip) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** I, personally, don't have a problem with anyone wanting others to use proper grammar, punctuation, etc. Words mean things. Punctuation means things. "Apostrophe usage" means things. Proper pronoun usage means things. I'm just sick of the present trend of people saying things like "for him and I", etc. For heaven's sake, when the personal pronoun for "me/I" is preceded by "for", or any other such qualifier, the proper usage is "me", not "I". You don't say "for I" (as in "for him and I"), do you? Or with "I"? (As "with him and I".) Our American English grammar has fallen into the same old pit of ignorance that has been afflicting us for the last 10-15 years or so. (Notice that I say "ignorance", as opposed to "stupidity". Ignorance means "not knowing, unlearned, or uneducated", whereas "stupidity" simply means "not capable of learning".) Not from the List Admin, but just from me, a stickler for proper usage of English. It may not mean anything as far as genealogy research is concerned, but it just grates on my soul to see supposedly educated people butchering our language. If people can't do anything else, they could at least consult an English Grammar booklet and find out when the pronouns "I/Me", "He/Him", "She/Her", "They/Them", etc., should be used. There's no excuse for ignorance. George

Cary, It was Russell Hitt and Mary Doyle Johnson who are the two Hitts on the trip in 2007. That was the year that Horst Schneider located the original plat for the Rehbach farm overlooking the town of Kaan Marienborn. Horst, who is a retired govt. employee in the information technology saved this document from the shredder after it was digitized. Horst presented the plat to Russell who now has it framed and on the wall behind his desk at his office. As you might imagine it was quite an emotional moment for both Russell and Mary. Rehbach was the farm of Peter Hitt's mother-in-law's family and there is a "denkmal" (monument) on the property to the ancestor of the mother-in-law who is credited with initiating the Hauberg system of forest management still in use today. The settlers list you clipped below is out of kilter. The Eisern on the line with Heide belongs to the person above Heide in the list. Peter and his wife were both from Kaan Marienborn. Thom ----- Original Message ----- From: <drcary@cox.net> To: <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:52 PM Subject: [GERMANNA] Germanna Hitts > > The Hitt Surname > >>From the first Colony "Settlers List" at Germanna.org. > > Heide/Heite/Hitt, Peter/Deiter Eisern > wife Maria Elizabeth Freudenberg Kaan Marienborn > Hoffmann/Hoffman/Huffman, Johannes Eisern >

According to Dr. Keith's "Yager Family" manuscript, page 38, Frances Smith (daughter of Asa Smith and Barbara Yager) married first Whitfield Wright. I don't have a date but their son Whitfield Wright was born about 1824 according to census records. Her second husband was Robert C. Mason, again no marriage date however their first child, William B. Mason, was born 26 April 1827. They (Robert and Frances) lived in Oldham County, Kentucky at the time of the 1850, 1860, 1870 and 1880 censuses. Also according to Keith, the Frances Smith who was the daughter of Jemima Yager and John Smith died young. Cathi

Sorry everyone - thought I was sending a personal message to Marc. I do wish each and everyone of my Germanna cousins and friends a Merry Christmas! Cathi

Hi Marc, That sounds like such a special way to spend Christmas Eve! I'll think of you while I'm holding my real candle and singing Silent Night at First Lutheran Church here in St. Helens. Your e-mail made me think of our proposed service at Hebron Lutheran during the reunion. Does Rev. Shaw speak German? Our former pastor at First Lutheran (now retired), Rev. Gary Heide, is fluent in German and could plan and lead a German service. He also has a beautiful voice for singing the liturgy. First Lutheran is part of the ELCA as is Hebron Lutheran. I have not approached him to see if he is available or interested, this is just a thought I had with no attention to any logistics ... assume he would need the Foundation to pay his way there and perhaps there may be someone closer that could do the service in German. Merry Christmas to you and your family! Cathi

Someone on the list asked whether a family history had been compiled on the Hitt family. The Family History Library in Salt Lake City has a multitude [a good part of the first fllor at that Library] of family histories. Many of them have been filmed. I did a Surname search of the Library catalog [www.familysearch.org - and click on Library] for the Hitt family and found this promising family history, which the catalog says is about 1100 pages--and it has been filmed. Here is a description [the formatting may not transfer well to the internet] so do the search yourself--remember Surname and then Hitt. There are quite a few other histories about that family--and related families. Here is the one I chose to see the details . (By the way, Fauquier Co. was not formed until 1759--try Prince William Co., where some of the records are missing.) _Littlefield, Barbara Jeanne Grim_ (http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=authordetails&authorno=207469&name= Littlefield,+Barbara+Jeanne+Grim) , 1945- (Main Author) Notes Peter Hitt (ca. 1683-1772) was probably born in Germany and died in Germantown, Virginia. According to Siegerländer Perönlichkeiten-und Geschlechter- Lexikon, Peter Heide was the son of Jacob Heide of Rebhach farm near Marienborn; Peter emigrated in 1714 from Tupbach to Virginia and called himself Hitt. He married Elizabeth (d. ca. 1773) possibly in England or aboard ship to America. One of their children, Herman Hitt (1721-1820), was born, raised and buried in Germantown, Essex County (now Fauquier County), Virginia. In 1745, he married Mary Weaver (d. 1793). They had twelve children, all born in Faurquier County, Virginia. Their 1st was born in 1746, their last in 1770. The nine generations of descendants traced include Alden, Emmert, Glascock, Grim, Hershey, Huff, Newcomer, Perkins, Rector, Reynolds, Rowland, Wachtel and related lines. Since it has been filmed, through a nearby Family History Center, one can order the film for a fee for a short time. For a bigger fee, one can extend the time, and if the center has storage space, you might be able to put it on permanent loan. Happy hunting. Try this kind of searching for other Germanna names. Someone may have compiled a history for your family. It's a beginning!!! But be careful when counties were formed. You may be looking in the wrong county!!! E.W.Wallace **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000025)

An invitation to a Christmas Eve candlelight service commemorating the first Christmas Eve at Germanna.   For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. -Luke 2:11   The members of Agnus Dei (Latin-Lamb of God) Lutheran Church are having another church service at the Germanna Visitor Center in Locust Grove, Virginia, and are inviting members and friends of the Germanna Foundation to join us for a Christmas Eve worship service on Wednesday December 24, 2008 at 6:30pm.   This is a traditional candlelight service with one minor twist:  unlike the service in 1714, the candles (through the use of modern technology) will be battery-operated LEDs.   Since there is a significant appreciation of the German language, we will be singing many traditional hymns in German, English, Latin, and Spanish. Consider this a multi-lingual or international Christmas service. Don't worry if you don't know the language, we have specially prepared versions of the hymns that will help most any English speaking person pronounce the lyrics correctly.   So come out and join us as we celebrate the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ this Christmas Eve, and thank God for his Providence to the people of Germanna for nearly 300 years in America.   "For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace". -Isaiah 9:6 --------------------------- Rev. James R Shaw http://www.adlutheran.org/ Agnus Dei Lutheran Church Spotsylvania County, VA 540-446-0777