The Settler's List on the Germanna Foundation web site lists Johann Just Albrecht, he's not included in any other list of settler's but we thought it important because he did live there for a time with the First Colony. Without Albrecht, there should be the 42 people that constituted the First Colony. I do remember the time that we spent, along with you, Suzanne, in making sure that we had the Settler's List correct, not only for the First Colony, but for all of the Germanna Settlers. In his letters, Spotswood notes the approximate number of Germans in 1715: "To ye Lords Commissioners of Trade and Plantations, 7 February 1715 (by our calendar 1716), My Lords: - - - - As to the other Settlement, named Germanna, there are about forty Germans, Men, Women and Children, " John Fontaine does note "there are but nine families, and they have nine houses, built all in a line..." in his 1714 visit to Germanna. Our own Dr. Katharine Brown, in her lecture entitled "The Women of Germanna," which she presented at the 2008 Germanna Foundation's Reunion, and which is on the Foundation web site, noted these households and who would have comprised them as there were 8 male heads of households, along with their families, including Pastor Haeger and his family. The ninth house could have been the "bachelor pad" as there were 5 bachelors that came to Virginia--Melchior Brumbach, John Hoffman, John Kemper, Joseph Martin and John Spilman. Also of note are the 2 adult children of Philip and Elizabeth Heimbach Fisbhbach, John and Harman--they were 23 and 21 years old. Did they live with their parents or the other bachelors? Another question that Dr. Brown asks is this--was the ninth house occupied by Albrecht? This is certainly a possibility. Dr. Brown also notes the composition of the households a few years later as several members of the First Colony had died--Hermann Otterbach; his sons, John Philip and John; John Henry Weaver and his son, John; Maria Elizabeth Freudenberg Hitt, the first wife of Peter Hitt; Anna Gertrud Reinschmidt Cuntze, the wife of Joseph Cuntze; and Philip Fischbach--8 total. One family that has been under intense scrutiny as to their arrival in Virginia is the Otterbach family--Hermann Otterbach, his wife, Elizabeth Heimbach, their sons John Philip, John and their daughters Elizabeth, Alice Catherine, Mary Catherine and Anna Catherine. The records in Germany state that this family moved to Virginia, but the father Hermann Otterbach isn't on any of the lists of workers, I think this was taken in 1718, nor was he naturalized, as he probably died shortly after arrival here. There is also no further record of the Otterbach family in Germany after 1714 in the German church records. And, without the Otterbach daughters, as pointed out by BC Holtzclaw, there are not enough wives for Joseph Martin, Harman Fishback and Peter Hitt. I think another source for the 42 people that comprised the First Colony is BC Holtzclaw's "Ancestry and Descendants of the Nassau Siegen Immigrants to Virginia 1714-1750." I've said it before and I'll say it again--upon meeting the Siegen Church Archivist, Herr Gerhard Moisel, he had this book with him, he uses it every day, he stated to me, and 3 others that were researching with him that day in 2004, that there are very few errors in this book. And, before you ask him a question about the First Colony, you are to read this book because you will probably have your answer. I am curious as to the sources that state that there were 47 members of the First Colony, what is that, Suzanne? Barb Price In a message dated 1/22/2009 10:00:49 Pacific Standard Time, holt zclaw.research@yahoo.com writes: I noticed recently that the official history of the Germanna Foundation states there were 47 people in the 1714 Colony. The list of Germanna Settlers names 44 people(I counted them). Lt. Governor Alexander Spotswood gave the number as 42. Of the three different numbers given, I can only find documentation for the number 42. What sources were used to determine the other two numbers given (44 and 47)? I will point out that I did contribute some of the names on the page of Germanna Settlers--but only the ones on which I had some documentation that they actually arrived in the VA colony. A number of names are listed out of tradition and not as a result of research and documentation. Suzanne Collins Matson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)

For those who are members of Germanna, John Blankenbaker has written an interesting article on the writing of his book on the Second Germanna Colony: http://www.germanna.org/premium_content

There is a list at www.germanna.org   Click on Settler's List on the right side of the page.  My personal opinion is that it has some errors and some omissions.  There are obviously others who think it is accurate.  I recommend that you do your own research and decide for yourself. Suzanne Collins Matson ________________________________ From: "KiwisKeeper@aol.com" <KiwisKeeper@aol.com> To: germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 4:36:36 PM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] The number of people in the 1714 Colony Does anyone have a list of those people? Frances In a message dated 1/22/2009 12:14:08 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  holtzclaw.research@yahoo.com writes: Hi Cathi, Your source agrees with the information  published in the Executive Journals of the Council of Colonial Virginia, vol.  III (May 1, 1705-October 23, 1721) H. R. McIlwaine, editor, publ 1928,  reprinted 1976, p. 371.  On April 28, 1714, Lt. Governor Alexander  Spotswood reported to the Council that forty-two men women and children who  were invited hither by the Baron de Graffenried are now arrived,.... (italics  are mine) Lt.. Governor Spotswood was quite precise in stating the  number.  Since he had paid for approximately one-half their passage, I  think he knew exactly how many people arrived.  I wonder if he  had to pay the passage of those who may have died at sea.  Perhaps  someone on the list who knows something about the shipping business of  that time could help  out. Suzanne ________________________________ From: Cathi  Clore Frost <cathiclorefrost@comcast.net> Sent: Thursday, January 22,  2009 1:52:53 PM Hi Suzanne, I was just reading the Kemper  Family genealogy by Willis Kemper.  I realize that this account of  the Germanna Colonies contains errors however, Kemper states that the 1714  Colony had 42 members and cites an Act of November 1714 exempting the  Germans from parish levies (Acts of Assembly passed in the colony of  Virginia from 1662 to 1715.  London 1727:  page 379).  (Kemper  Family, 20-22) Cathi ----- Original Message -----  From: "Suzanne Matson" <holtzclaw.research@yahoo.com> I  noticed recently that the official history of the Germanna Foundation  states there were 47 people in the 1714 Colony. The list of Germanna  Settlers names 44 people(I counted them). Lt. Governor Alexander Spotswood  gave the number as 42. Of the three different numbers given, I can only  find documentation for the number 42. What sources were used to determine  the other two numbers given (44 and 47)? I will point out that I did  contribute some of the names on the page of Germanna Settlers--but only  the ones on which I had some documentation that they actually arrived in  the VA colony. A number of names are listed out of tradition and not as a  result of research and documentation. Suzanne Collins  Matson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list,  please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIE S-request@rootsweb.com with the word  'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the  message **************Inauguration '09:  Get complete coverage from the nation's capital. (http://news.aol.com/main/politics/inauguration?ncid=emlcntusnews00000003) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Franz Ludwig Michel Travels to America Michel left a report on his first trip which has been translated and printed in The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography. The report is rather long but starts in Vol. XXIV, No.1, (January 1916). It is a very interesting story. His much longer second trip is not so well reported. One must gather what is known from several sources. He did leave a map of the Shenandoah Valley which he drew about 1706 or 1707. The original of this is in the Public Record Office. There are some other documents there that pertain to his explorations. Other bits of information are to be found in some unlikely places such as the correspondence of William Penn. Michel did think he had found silver mines in the Valley. This was the event which led to the First Germanna Colony. Germanna history fails to recognize the importance of Michel to the existence of the Germanna Colonies. Had there been no Michel, there would have been no First or Second Germanna Colony. -- John.Blankenbaker@comcast.net

The Germanna Project at FTDNA was set up for the Germanna Foundation. If anyone is interested in serving as the Group Administrator, please contact me. Michael Corlee Morris wrote: > Fellow Germanna Descendants, > > It appears that there is already a Germanna Project at FTDNA. Currently there is no Group Administrator listed or information on the Project. Does anyone know who started this Project? > > I know that many Germanna Descendants have already joined Surname Projects at FTDNA. I myself have had two Germanna Descendents tested. FTDNA currently allows its members to join more than one Project, so we could gather all of the previouily tested Germanna Descendants together. > > If you have had your DNA tested through another lab, you can ask to have your results included in another database. In fact you should have your results added to as many databases as possible. > > FTDNA also allows its members to submit their results to The Genographic Project. People that join The Genographic Project can also have their results submitted to FTDNA Projects. I like the thought of supporting The Genographic Project. And since the cost is only slightly more I plan to have all of my future DNA Tests go through the Genographic Project as long as it is testing. Of course it is only a five year program. > > > Sincerely yours, > > Corlee Ann Morris > Germanna Descendant > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

On the Germanna Foundation website on the "History of Germanna" page, second paragraph, it states 47 people were members of the 1714 Colony.  I was asking for the source of that information.  I have no information that would indicate 47 people and was wondering where that came from. I don't particularly have a problem with Albrecht being listed as long as his role is made clear.  While present at Germanna for a period of time, he was not a member of the Germanna group, IMHO.  I haven't yet found a source that indicates whether any of Albrecht's passage was paid for by Lt. Gov. Spotswood. Suzanne ________________________________ From: "RockCatt@aol.com" <RockCatt@aol.com> To: germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com; GERMANNA_COLONIES@rootsweb.com Cc: Klbrown@cfw.com Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:53:31 PM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] The number of people in the 1714 Colony I am curious as to the sources that state that there were 47  members of the First Colony, what is that, Suzanne? Barb Price

Hi Cathi, Your source agrees with the information published in the Executive Journals of the Council of Colonial Virginia, vol. III (May 1, 1705-October 23, 1721) H. R. McIlwaine, editor, publ 1928, reprinted 1976, p. 371.  On April 28, 1714, Lt. Governor Alexander Spotswood reported to the Council that forty-two men women and children who were invited hither by the Baron de Graffenried are now arrived,.... (italics are mine) Lt.. Governor Spotswood was quite precise in stating the number.  Since he had paid for approximately one-half their passage, I think he knew exactly how many people arrived.  I wonder if he had to pay the passage of those who may have died at sea.  Perhaps someone on the list who knows something about the shipping business of that time could help out. Suzanne ________________________________ From: Cathi Clore Frost <cathiclorefrost@comcast.net> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 1:52:53 PM Hi Suzanne, I was just reading the Kemper Family genealogy by Willis Kemper.  I realize that this account of the Germanna Colonies contains errors however, Kemper states that the 1714 Colony had 42 members and cites an Act of November 1714 exempting the Germans from parish levies (Acts of Assembly passed in the colony of Virginia from 1662 to 1715.  London 1727:  page 379).  (Kemper Family, 20-22) Cathi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzanne Matson" <holtzclaw.research@yahoo.com> I noticed recently that the official history of the Germanna Foundation states there were 47 people in the 1714 Colony. The list of Germanna Settlers names 44 people(I counted them). Lt. Governor Alexander Spotswood gave the number as 42. Of the three different numbers given, I can only find documentation for the number 42. What sources were used to determine the other two numbers given (44 and 47)? I will point out that I did contribute some of the names on the page of Germanna Settlers--but only the ones on which I had some documentation that they actually arrived in the VA colony. A number of names are listed out of tradition and not as a result of research and documentation. Suzanne Collins Matson

Hi Suzanne, I was just reading the Kemper Family genealogy by Willis Kemper. I realize that this account of the Germanna Colonies contains errors however, Kemper states that the 1714 Colony had 42 members and cites an Act of November 1714 exempting the Germans from parish levies (Acts of Assembly passed in the colony of Virginia from 1662 to 1715. London 1727: page 379). (Kemper Family, 20-22) Cathi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzanne Matson" <holtzclaw.research@yahoo.com> To: "Germanna Colonies" <GERMANNA_COLONIES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:59 AM Subject: [GERMANNA] The number of people in the 1714 Colony I noticed recently that the official history of the Germanna Foundation states there were 47 people in the 1714 Colony. The list of Germanna Settlers names 44 people(I counted them). Lt. Governor Alexander Spotswood gave the number as 42. Of the three different numbers given, I can only find documentation for the number 42. What sources were used to determine the other two numbers given (44 and 47)? I will point out that I did contribute some of the names on the page of Germanna Settlers--but only the ones on which I had some documentation that they actually arrived in the VA colony. A number of names are listed out of tradition and not as a result of research and documentation. Suzanne Collins Matson ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I noticed recently that the official history of the Germanna Foundation states there were 47 people in the 1714 Colony.  The list of Germanna Settlers names 44 people(I counted them).  Lt. Governor Alexander Spotswood gave the number as 42.  Of the three different numbers given, I can only find documentation for the number 42.  What sources were used to determine the other two numbers given (44 and 47)?  I will point out that I did contribute some of the names on the page of Germanna Settlers--but only the ones on which I had some documentation that they actually arrived in the VA colony.  A number of names are listed out of tradition and not as a result of research and documentation.  Suzanne Collins Matson

See message at: http://history-sites.com/cgi-bin/bbs53x/mocwmb/webbbs_config.pl?read=13019

I have not input all the descendant info on the line of Hans/John Wendel Thomas but wanted to respond to those asking for information. These are the counties and dates for Hans. All of his known children were born before he left Culpeper Co., VA about 1774 or so and they all went to Guilford (now Rockingham) Co. NC. He was married twice -- maiden names unknown -- first to Mary and second to Sarah. Five known sons went to NC with him -- Michael from his first wife and Jesse, Joel, Lewis and William from his second wife. They all served in the Rev. war for NC -- even William who was only about 16 years old.  Michael and Lewis stayed in Rockingham Co., NC and the rest went to Georgia in the late 1790's -- Wilkes, Elbert, Franklin (now Banks) Counties. Joel died in Elbert Co about 1797 or so leaving only a daughter, Susannah. Jesse and William and their descendants remained in the the Franklin Co., GA area to the present time.  If you have any Thomas people in any of these counties -- I'll be glad to look through my notes to see if they connect to Hans but these are the only counties that I have Thomas info on -- as far as descendants of Hans. Take care. Marilyn

Fellow Germanna Descendants, It appears that there is already a Germanna Project at FTDNA. Currently there is no Group Administrator listed or information on the Project. Does anyone know who started this Project? I know that many Germanna Descendants have already joined Surname Projects at FTDNA. I myself have had two Germanna Descendents tested. FTDNA currently allows its members to join more than one Project, so we could gather all of the previouily tested Germanna Descendants together. If you have had your DNA tested through another lab, you can ask to have your results included in another database. In fact you should have your results added to as many databases as possible. FTDNA also allows its members to submit their results to The Genographic Project. People that join The Genographic Project can also have their results submitted to FTDNA Projects. I like the thought of supporting The Genographic Project. And since the cost is only slightly more I plan to have all of my future DNA Tests go through the Genographic Project as long as it is testing. Of course it is only a five year program. Sincerely yours, Corlee Ann Morris Germanna Descendant

John Waldo Miller Dear Sir\Madam, does anyone have an accurate account of Michel's first and second visit to the New World, dates, and how long he was there, and where did he go. Writing a historical fiction about the man, but still would like to get it right. Thank you, John Miller ======================================================= Can anyone help John? If so, please email him at jjseigmiller@comcast.net, AND send us CC here on the List. Sarge

Let me try this again, I have no doubt that Family Tree DNA is reliable. However, I have been a subscriber to ancestry.com for years and I have found them also to be a very reliable company. I personally believe that they are the premier website for genealogy research. They effectively pay for Rootsweb, and the very list that we are all subscribed to here. Since the real genealogical effectiveness of DNA is a combination of a comparison of the DNA tests, and the genealogical research that supports and corresponds to it, it is logical that this site will become the premier site for DNA genealogy. They just started doing DNA last year and their service in this field is still developing and growing. They have DNA groups, for surnames or regions or whatever. It would be a simple matter to form a DNA group there for Germanna families. The group site offers the posting of photos, trees, videos and other files. It facilitates discussion groups other messages, and sends messages and updates to all members. Anyone can join such a group. Members can apply for a DNA test through the service, which will be automatically posted and compared to everyone else in the entire database. You can also manually submit DNA test results from another service, which I am pretty sure Family Tree DNA will not allow you to do. Again, they just lowered their price on the 33 marker Y-chromosome test to $79. The Family Tree DNA $99 test that you spoke of is only a 12 marker test. The more markers you get, the better your chances of making good matches and determining the closeness of the matches. This $99 is a "group" price, with the regular price being $149 for this test. They have a 37 marker test, for a group price is $149, and the regular price is $259. For all of these reasons, I think if you are looking to form a DNA group, you should look at this site. Rick Waggener sequoia@pacbell.net ________________________________ From: "SusiCP@aol.com" <SusiCP@aol.com> To: germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:46:59 PM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] We could build the complete Y-DNA & mtDNA for all Germanna Families I am going to weigh in here and say I bet if you talked to FTDna that a group rate may be available for such a great project.  They are very reliable and consistent.  Maybe in future others will do as well but until I hear as much I much prefer FTDna people. They will need to know how many would participate to be able to give a fee price. Susi ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bc d=DecemailfooterNO62) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am going to weigh in here and say I bet if you talked to FTDna that a group rate may be available for such a great project. They are very reliable and consistent. Maybe in future others will do as well but until I hear as much I much prefer FTDna people. They will need to know how many would participate to be able to give a fee price. Susi ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bc d=DecemailfooterNO62)

Hi Corlee, German Thomas family has been Y-DNA tested. I don't know if there are any female direct lines from the daughter of Hans Wendel Thomas but would certainly be interested in the results -- even if they don't show as much as the male lines. A match with any of the other Germanna female lines might be significant. Take care. Marilyn -----Original Message----- From: Corlee Morris <cmorris575@att.net> To: Germanna List <GERMANNA_COLONIES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:27 am Subject: [GERMANNA] We could build the complete Y-DNA & mtDNA for all Germanna Families My fellow Germanna Descendants, We have a unique opportunity to fill in all of the Y-Chromosome and mtDNA for most of the families that came in 1714 and 1717. Normally researchers are only able to trace their matrilineal and patrilineal. The great great grandparents in the middle of the "V" are lost. But since the two groups of Germans remained close and inter-married we could be able to fill in the Y-Chromosome for all of the Surnames and the mtDNA for all of the female lines. It would also be an interesting study of mutations. If anyone else is interested, please let me know. We could all join the Genographic Project and get tested for $99.99. Or we could start a Germanna Project at Family Tree DNA and we could get a group rate of $99 for the same tests. Sincerely Yours, Corlee Morris Yeager Descendant ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Marilyn, Do any of your Thomas's tie in with: Edward Thomas b bet 1790-1796 in Henry County VA. m Elizabeth Allen July 3, 1812 Their daughter Elizabeth Thomas b. 1830 in Henry County VA (d Jun 28, 1887) married John Lee Camper in VA. John Lee Camper is my ggf and the gggs of John Camper(Johannes Kemper) of the first Germanna Colony. Bob J. R. Camper > [Original Message] > From: <gneolog@aol.com> > To: <cmorris575@att.net>; <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> > Date: 1/21/2009 1:53:49 PM > Subject: [!! SPAM] Re: [GERMANNA] We could build the complete Y-DNA & mtDNA for all Germanna Families > > Hi Corlee, German Thomas family has been Y-DNA tested. I don't know if there are any female direct lines from the daughter of Hans Wendel Thomas but would certainly be interested in the results -- even if they don't show as much as the male lines. A match with any of the other Germanna female lines might be significant. Take care. Marilyn > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Corlee Morris <cmorris575@att.net> > To: Germanna List <GERMANNA_COLONIES@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:27 am > Subject: [GERMANNA] We could build the complete Y-DNA & mtDNA for all Germanna Families > > > > > > > > > My fellow Germanna Descendants, > > We have a unique opportunity to fill in all of the Y-Chromosome and mtDNA for > most of the families that came in 1714 and 1717. Normally researchers are only > able to trace their matrilineal and patrilineal. The great great grandparents > in the middle of the "V" are lost. But since the two groups of Germans remained > close and inter-married we could be able to fill in the Y-Chromosome for all of > the Surnames and the mtDNA for all of the female lines. > > > It would also be an interesting study of mutations. If anyone else is > interested, please let me know. We could all join the Genographic Project and > get tested for $99.99. Or we could start a Germanna Project at Family Tree DNA > and we could get a group rate of $99 for the same tests. > > Sincerely Yours, > Corlee Morris > Yeager Descendant > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Family Tree DNA has a Germanna Project which was set up recently: http://www.familytreedna.com/project-join-request.aspx?group=Germanna

Aren't the National Genographic project and FTDna related? FTDna is where my results went after the Genographic testing and I receive regular updates from FTDna whenever matches are found. Beth On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:46 PM, <SusiCP@aol.com> wrote: > I am going to weigh in here and say I bet if you talked to FTDna that a group > rate may be available for such a great project. They are very reliable and > consistent. Maybe in future others will do as well but until I hear as much > I much prefer FTDna people. > They will need to know how many would participate to be able to give a fee > price. > Susi -- "Body lengths traveled by a Rufous Hummingbird between Alaska and its winter range in Mexico: 49 million." Cornell Lab of Ornithology BirdNotes.

All, Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) does the processing of test for the Genographic Project...and after results come in there is a link on personal pages where you can join FTDNA. Normally folks choose a surname project or a ethnic/regional project but in the Germanna case a project could probably be formed specifically for that group Hope Admin - Freeman DNA project FTDNA