As 1 June was census day in 1870, if she was born in April, then she shouldn't be in the census at all. But, as the census takers were paid per person counted, who would notice one fudging. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George W. Durman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Charles H. Wilhite > Thanks Cathi. > > I knew that 4/12 meant 4 months but I missed the other column which > showed her birth month as January. It's still screwy though. The > Census for Lancaster Precinct was taken in August and the month of > birth and age don't match; however, the one for Ashland Precinct > was taken in April and the month of birth and age do match. So, > problem solved. > > Thanks again, > Sarge > > At 6/28/2010 08:44 PM Monday, Cathi Clore Frost wrote: > *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* > >Sarge, > > > >4/12 should mean age 4 months in a census record rather than a date. I just > >checked the actual census. The month Jan is in another column (If born > >within the year state month). So she was born in January 1870 but the exact > >date is not noted. Interestingly, this family is listed twice -- in both > >Ashland Precinct in April 1871 (1870 crossed out and 1871 written in) and > >Lancaster Precinct in Aug. 1870, both in Cass County, Illinois. > > > >Cathi > >(snip) > **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: > http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna > > My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry/~george/index.html > > If you refer to a Germanna descendant, include a link to your on-line data. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes she should be in the census as June is after April. But the age would be wrong. I have noticed that the ages are often off a little bit. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cary Anderson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Charles H. Wilhite > As 1 June was census day in 1870, if she was born in April, then she > shouldn't be in the census at all. But, as the census takers were paid > per > person counted, who would notice one fudging.

Two Charles Wilhites I recently discovered another Charles Wilhite born around the same time as my G-Great Grandfather Charles Henry Wilhite. He is Charles P Wilhite born in Indiana. Aaron Wilhoit/Wilhite is the great grandfather of both Charles Wilhites. Charles Henry Wilhite is the son of George Washington Wilhite, Grandson of Humphrey Wilhite & Great Grandson of Joel Wilhite. Charles H. Wilhite was born in Illinois in 1844. Charles P Wilhite is the son of Elijah L. Wilhite, Grandson of Lameck Wilhoit & Great Grandson of Joel Wilhite. Charles P. Wilhite was born in Indiana in1859. Mary Boicourt Marcin On 6/27/2010 6:30 AM, Nancy Hinchy wrote: > I have the information on all of Charles children, my grandmother was one of them, Flora Eva. If you need to fill in the other let me know and I will give it to you. If you can fill in from Charles and George Washington I would appreciate it as I have 2 different lines, although I am sure Mary Marcins is the correct on would like to see why other line is listed. > > Nancy > >

Yes Shelley. I don't think everyone realizes this. Cathi ----- Original Message ----- From: "txshell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Charles H. Wilhite > For the censuses in 1850, 1860, 1870, 1880 and 1900 the answers to > questions > were to reflect the status AS OF 1 June of that year. In 1910 it was as > of > 15 April, in1920 it was as of 1 January, and in 1930 it was as of 1 April. > These were the RULES but mistakes DID occur. > > Shelley

I think Sarge would agree with me that it's time we start embracing more Germanna women! ;-) So true -- now if I could only identify the first wife of Michael Thomas and the two wives of John Thomas, I would be ONE HAPPY CAMPER. Oh well, it's not going to happen so I'll just be a HAPPY CAMPER anyway. Take care. Marilyn

Other families that are "glue" include the Heimbach and Otterbach families. Probably the reason they are not embraced by many descendants is that these were female lines and the surname did not descend as widely in America. I think Sarge would agree with me that it's time we start embracing more Germanna women! ;-) On Jun 29, 2010, at 1:28 AM, "George W. Durman" <[email protected]> wrote: I saw this from Virginia Nuta: Hi Mary-- I always think of the Willheits as being Second Colony glue--so many of us have Willheit genes mixed in with our other families. (sip) Virginia Nuta ======================================================= In our recent discussions of WILHITE/WILHOIT/however it was spelled over time, much has been made about how that family was/is related to so many other Germanna families. What I wonder is, "Why is the BROYLES family never mentioned in the same light? Adam WILHITE married Catherine BROYLES, daughter of the emigrant Johannes BREYEL (John BROYLES); Conrad Reuben WILHOITE married Mary Elizabeth BROYLES, granddaughter of John BROYLES. Descendants of Adam and Conrad Reuben include the following families: CARPENTER, CRISLER, UTZ, SNYDER, CLORE, BLANKENBAKER, AYLOR, ROUSE, TANNER, WEAVER, WAYLAND, YOWELL, FISHBACK, MILLER, RACER, CREIGLER, SOUTHER, YAGER, GAAR/GARR, PAINTER, HOLT, FINKS, and others. But no mention is never made about the BROYLES contribution to relationships of all the rest of the Germanna families. If you have a WILHITE/WILHOIT/etc. ancestor, chances are pretty dang good that you also have a BROYLES ancestor. I guess what I'm getting at is that WILHITE/WILHOIT gets top billing but we so very rarely see the BROYLES family referred to as "Second Colony glue". Why? Sarge My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html If you refer to a Germanna descendant, include a link to your on-line data. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I saw this from Virginia Nuta: Hi Mary-- I always think of the Willheits as being Second Colony glue--so many of us have Willheit genes mixed in with our other families. (sip) Virginia Nuta ======================================================= In our recent discussions of WILHITE/WILHOIT/however it was spelled over time, much has been made about how that family was/is related to so many other Germanna families. What I wonder is, "Why is the BROYLES family never mentioned in the same light? Adam WILHITE married Catherine BROYLES, daughter of the emigrant Johannes BREYEL (John BROYLES); Conrad Reuben WILHOITE married Mary Elizabeth BROYLES, granddaughter of John BROYLES. Descendants of Adam and Conrad Reuben include the following families: CARPENTER, CRISLER, UTZ, SNYDER, CLORE, BLANKENBAKER, AYLOR, ROUSE, TANNER, WEAVER, WAYLAND, YOWELL, FISHBACK, MILLER, RACER, CREIGLER, SOUTHER, YAGER, GAAR/GARR, PAINTER, HOLT, FINKS, and others. But no mention is never made about the BROYLES contribution to relationships of all the rest of the Germanna families. If you have a WILHITE/WILHOIT/etc. ancestor, chances are pretty dang good that you also have a BROYLES ancestor. I guess what I'm getting at is that WILHITE/WILHOIT gets top billing but we so very rarely see the BROYLES family referred to as "Second Colony glue". Why? Sarge My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html

Hello Mary, I put your ancestors into my database, then did a "Relationship Calculation" in the program. You and I are 7th Cousins, once removed! Now I have another cousin I never knew about. Yer Cuz, Sarge At 6/28/2010 12:10 PM Monday, Mary Marcin wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >Hi, >I am Mary Boicourt Marcin G-Great Granddaughter of Charles Henry >Wilhite. My Great Grandmother was Nancy Elizabeth Wilhite. My >grandmother was her daughter Lillian Speer and my mother was Lenna Mae >Bays who married Ray L. Boicourt. > >What I may have said is that Charles Wilhite is the product of two >WILLHEIT/WILHITE/WILHOIT lines. His parents were George Washington >Wilhite & Nancy Wilhoit Wilhite. >His paternal Grandfather was Humphrey Wilhite. The maternal grandfather >of Charles H. Wilhite was Joseph Thornton Wilhite. > > >The first wife of Charles H. Wilhite was Mary Elizabeth Combs who also >had Germanna roots. Mary E. Combs is the G-Granddaughter of Elizabeth >Gaar/Garr. Her G-G-Grandparents were Benjamin Gaar/Garr and Margaret >Crigler >Mary >(snip) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT***********

For the censuses in 1850, 1860, 1870, 1880 and 1900 the answers to questions were to reflect the status AS OF 1 June of that year. In 1910 it was as of 15 April, in1920 it was as of 1 January, and in 1930 it was as of 1 April. These were the RULES but mistakes DID occur. Shelley ----- Original Message ----- From: "George W. Durman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Charles H. Wilhite > Thanks Cathi. > > I knew that 4/12 meant 4 months but I missed the other column which > showed her birth month as January. It's still screwy though. The > Census for Lancaster Precinct was taken in August and the month of > birth and age don't match; however, the one for Ashland Precinct > was taken in April and the month of birth and age do match. So, > problem solved. > > Thanks again, > Sarge > > At 6/28/2010 08:44 PM Monday, Cathi Clore Frost wrote: > *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >>Sarge, >> >>4/12 should mean age 4 months in a census record rather than a date. I >>just >>checked the actual census. The month Jan is in another column (If born >>within the year state month). So she was born in January 1870 but the >>exact >>date is not noted. Interestingly, this family is listed twice -- in both >>Ashland Precinct in April 1871 (1870 crossed out and 1871 written in) and >>Lancaster Precinct in Aug. 1870, both in Cass County, Illinois. >> >>Cathi >>(snip) > **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** >

Thanks Cathi. I knew that 4/12 meant 4 months but I missed the other column which showed her birth month as January. It's still screwy though. The Census for Lancaster Precinct was taken in August and the month of birth and age don't match; however, the one for Ashland Precinct was taken in April and the month of birth and age do match. So, problem solved. Thanks again, Sarge At 6/28/2010 08:44 PM Monday, Cathi Clore Frost wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >Sarge, > >4/12 should mean age 4 months in a census record rather than a date. I just >checked the actual census. The month Jan is in another column (If born >within the year state month). So she was born in January 1870 but the exact >date is not noted. Interestingly, this family is listed twice -- in both >Ashland Precinct in April 1871 (1870 crossed out and 1871 written in) and >Lancaster Precinct in Aug. 1870, both in Cass County, Illinois. > >Cathi >(snip) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry/~george/index.html

Hello Again Nancy, Well, since others might be interested, just go ahead and post it here. Thanks very, very much for the data. Oops! Almost forgot to ask. All databases I've found, where birth dates are given for Charles' and Mary's children, have Nancy Elizabeth born 4 Jan 1870. The 1870 Census for Cass Co., IL, which was taken in August, gives Nancy's age as 4/12. I'm wondering if someone saw her birth date as 1/4/1870 or 4/1/1870 and entered the date as 4 Jan when it should have been 1 Apr. That's the problem with using only numbers for dates - it is usually not possible to know if the numbers represent Day/Month/Year or Month/Day/Year; that is, unless one of the numbers is greater than 12, then it's easy to figure which is the day and which is the month. I wish everyone would use the system used in Europe, where it's always Day/Month/Year. Sarge At 6/28/2010 09:49 AM Monday, you wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >Do you want me to send this on list or off list. >Nancy >(snip) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT***********

Sarge, 4/12 should mean age 4 months in a census record rather than a date. I just checked the actual census. The month Jan is in another column (If born within the year state month). So she was born in January 1870 but the exact date is not noted. Interestingly, this family is listed twice -- in both Ashland Precinct in April 1871 (1870 crossed out and 1871 written in) and Lancaster Precinct in Aug. 1870, both in Cass County, Illinois. Cathi ----- Original Message ----- From: "George W. Durman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Charles H. Wilhite > Hello Again Nancy, > > Well, since others might be interested, just go ahead and post it here. > > Thanks very, very much for the data. > > Oops! Almost forgot to ask. All databases I've found, where birth > dates are given for Charles' and Mary's children, have Nancy Elizabeth > born 4 Jan 1870. The 1870 Census for Cass Co., IL, which was taken > in August, gives Nancy's age as 4/12. I'm wondering if someone saw > her birth date as 1/4/1870 or 4/1/1870 and entered the date as 4 Jan > when it should have been 1 Apr. That's the problem with using only > numbers for dates - it is usually not possible to know if the numbers > represent Day/Month/Year or Month/Day/Year; that is, unless one > of the numbers is greater than 12, then it's easy to figure which is the > day and which is the month. I wish everyone would use the system > used in Europe, where it's always Day/Month/Year. > > Sarge > > At 6/28/2010 09:49 AM Monday, you wrote: > *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >>Do you want me to send this on list or off list. >>Nancy >>(snip) > **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > If you refer to a Germanna descendant, include a link to your on-line > data. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

As you are a double Wilhite(sic) I checked my record and there is a Humphrey Willhoite as the son of Joel Willhoite and Mary Wilhite. This Humphrey is a brother of my Reynolds. As they also had a Martin(Marty) Wilhoite: it is one of the reasons I believe Catherine, the wife of Tobias, was a Walke. Different opinions on this. To confuse matters Reynolds daughter, Almira Jane married Norville S Wilhoite. They are buried in Owenton, KY at El Bethel Church. I have a picture of their tombstones, have been there and touched the stone......

Do you want me to send this on list or off list. Nancy On Jun 27, 2010, at 11:40 PM, George W. Durman wrote: > Hello Nancy, > > YES! Would love to have your data for Charles and his family. I'm not sure > what you mean by having two different lines. Also, I have no one named Mary > MARCINS and there's nothing at Rootsweb/Ancestry on anyone by that name; > likewise, a Google search for that name gets zero results. Would appreciate it > if you could elaborate. > > As to the info on Charles and George Washington, let me know in which format > you would like the data. If you have a computer genealogy program, I can > extract all their data back to the original emigrant and export it into a .GED > file for you. If you don't have such a program, I can prepare an Ancestor > Report with all the data. Just let me know. > > Sarge > > At 6/27/2010 09:30 AM Sunday, Nancy Hinchy wrote: > *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >> I have the information on all of Charles children, my grandmother was one of >> them, Flora Eva. If you need to fill in the other let me know and I will give >> it to you. If you can fill in from Charles and George Washington I would >> appreciate it as I have 2 different lines, although I am sure Mary Marcins is >> the correct on would like to see why other line is listed. >> >> Nancy >> >> On Jun 27, 2010, at 12:46 AM, George W. Durman wrote: >> >>> At 3/31/2010 05:45 PM Wednesday, Nancy Hinchy wrote: >>> *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >>>> I am looking for information on Charles H. Wilhite and his family. >>>> I have his father as George Washington Wilhite. Any help appreciated. >>> **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** >>> >>> Nancy, did anyone ever reply to you about Charles H. WILHITE, son >>> of George Washington WILHITE? >>> >>> If not, I have their ancestors back to the WILLHEIT/WILHITE/WILHOIT >>> emigrants, but have only one child for Charles, Nancy Elizabeth, b.1870. >>> My info on this family ends with Nancy. >>> >>> Sarge >>> >>> My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: >>> http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna >>> >>> My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: >>> http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry/~george/index.html >> (snip) > **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > If you refer to a Germanna descendant, include a link to your on-line data. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I am Mary Boicourt Marcin G-Great Granddaughter of Charles Henry Wilhite. My Great Grandmother was Nancy Elizabeth Wilhite. My grandmother was her daughter Lillian Speer and my mother was Lenna Mae Bays who married Ray L. Boicourt. What I may have said is that Charles Wilhite is the product of two WILLHEIT/WILHITE/WILHOIT lines. His parents were George Washington Wilhite & Nancy Wilhoit Wilhite. His paternal Grandfather was Humphrey Wilhite. The maternal grandfather of Charles H. Wilhite was Joseph Thornton Wilhite. The first wife of Charles H. Wilhite was Mary Elizabeth Combs who also had Germanna roots. Mary E. Combs is the G-Granddaughter of Elizabeth Gaar/Garr. Her G-G-Grandparents were Benjamin Gaar/Garr and Margaret Crigler Mary On 6/27/2010 8:40 PM, George W. Durman wrote: > Hello Nancy, > > YES! Would love to have your data for Charles and his family. I'm not sure > what you mean by having two different lines. Also, I have no one named Mary > MARCINS and there's nothing at Rootsweb/Ancestry on anyone by that name; > likewise, a Google search for that name gets zero results. Would appreciate it > if you could elaborate. > > As to the info on Charles and George Washington, let me know in which format > you would like the data. If you have a computer genealogy program, I can > extract all their data back to the original emigrant and export it into a .GED > file for you. If you don't have such a program, I can prepare an Ancestor > Report with all the data. Just let me know. > > Sarge > > At 6/27/2010 09:30 AM Sunday, Nancy Hinchy wrote: > *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* > >> I have the information on all of Charles children, my grandmother was one of >> them, Flora Eva. If you need to fill in the other let me know and I will give >> it to you. If you can fill in from Charles and George Washington I would >> appreciate it as I have 2 different lines, although I am sure Mary Marcins is >> the correct on would like to see why other line is listed. >> >> Nancy >> >> On Jun 27, 2010, at 12:46 AM, George W. Durman wrote: >> >>

At 6/27/2010 12:25 PM Sunday, [email protected] wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >Sarge, > Thank you for the reference. I also have heard the "Black Germans" >were from the Black Forest area of Germany; but I think the site definition >quoted below is pretty close to the mark: > >"Black Dutch is a term with several different meanings in United States >dialect and slang. It generally refers to racial, ethnic, or cultural roots. >Its meaning has varied in different parts of the nation and at different >times.Black Dutch is a term with several different meanings in United States >dialect and slang. It generally refers to racial, ethnic, or cultural >roots. Its meaning has varied in different parts of the nation and at >different >times." > > As far as the term "Melungeon" is concerned, I believe it is a name >that has covered many areas, especially in the deep south, that were wrapped >up in racial conflicts that covered a whole range of ethnic and cultural >backgrounds that did not fit into the general German-English-Irish settlers >background. > > The Cherokee nation of Georgia, Alabama were brillant people, not only >creating an alphabet for their language; but trying to blend into the >culture by dressing and conducting business as all the other settlers, some >owning property and business which were lost during the great march to the >west. Many of those stayed behind and tried not to be a part of that march in > >various ways and many suceeded in many different ways. > >Chocy **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** Chocy, As far as "Melungeon" goes, I truly believe that there is more to the term than just a "one covers all" definition. You, and others may disbelieve, but here's something to ponder. "It is said" that the descendants of "Melungeons", when injured, have scars that are "purple" or some shade thereof. "It is also said" that when their children are born, they are not "white", but have "purple or violet- colored skin". I had always been of the opinion that was just "folklore", until my brother, who works at Eastman in Kingsport, told me about a co-worker. The co-worker claimed he was a "Melungeon". He had been injured in the past and his scars were indeed "purple". He brought in a photo of his new-born child, and the child's skin was the most gorgeous color of violet you have ever seen. (I've seen the photo.) ????? Of course, within a few days the child was a normal "white" color. As many of you may know, the "Melungeons" seem to have been centered around Kingsport, TN. I don't have a clue about their ancestry, but I'll tell you right now that they weren't "Black Dutch"! Thinking back now to my growing up in East Tennessee, I remember people (whose surnames are supposedly connected to Melungeon) that many people with those "related " surnames did indeed match all the descriptions of Melungeon people. (I won't even get into one family I knew who ate "lard, seasoned with sugar and maple syrup" for breakfast every day!) They were the same family who worked during the year for a farmer, and, at the end of the "reckoning year", were told that they had worked so many hours for the farmer, who said that they had worked for X number of hours or days, and that the numbers of hours/days they had worked should be subtracted from the number of hours/days they should be paid for. Yes, it actually happened! Those poor Melungeon folks worked year-round and ended up at the end of the year owing the farmer more work, free, the next year. I'm not saying that the Melungeon folks in my neck of the woods were stupid, just that they lacked a little understanding of reality. No, the "Black Dutch" were not "Melungeons"! Sarge My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry/~george/index.html

Hello Nancy, YES! Would love to have your data for Charles and his family. I'm not sure what you mean by having two different lines. Also, I have no one named Mary MARCINS and there's nothing at Rootsweb/Ancestry on anyone by that name; likewise, a Google search for that name gets zero results. Would appreciate it if you could elaborate. As to the info on Charles and George Washington, let me know in which format you would like the data. If you have a computer genealogy program, I can extract all their data back to the original emigrant and export it into a .GED file for you. If you don't have such a program, I can prepare an Ancestor Report with all the data. Just let me know. Sarge At 6/27/2010 09:30 AM Sunday, Nancy Hinchy wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >I have the information on all of Charles children, my grandmother was one of >them, Flora Eva. If you need to fill in the other let me know and I will give >it to you. If you can fill in from Charles and George Washington I would >appreciate it as I have 2 different lines, although I am sure Mary Marcins is >the correct on would like to see why other line is listed. > >Nancy > >On Jun 27, 2010, at 12:46 AM, George W. Durman wrote: > > > At 3/31/2010 05:45 PM Wednesday, Nancy Hinchy wrote: > > *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* > >> I am looking for information on Charles H. Wilhite and his family. > >> I have his father as George Washington Wilhite. Any help appreciated. > > **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > > > Nancy, did anyone ever reply to you about Charles H. WILHITE, son > > of George Washington WILHITE? > > > > If not, I have their ancestors back to the WILLHEIT/WILHITE/WILHOIT > > emigrants, but have only one child for Charles, Nancy Elizabeth, b.1870. > > My info on this family ends with Nancy. > > > > Sarge > > > > My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: > > http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna > > > > My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: > > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry/~george/index.html >(snip) **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT***********

George, I enjoyed this reading this, needless to say it covers a lot that need to be put out there for all of the germanna families to consider. I am a descendant of Adam Yager of Woodstock, Johh PW,etc. I was told by FTDNA that R1 is a narrow group, and was asked to give them permission to do further studies into this group, not that it would change anything, may not benefit me, but it could benefit future generation, in estabilashing their roots. In essence they are wanting go back thousadns of years to study this particular group, there sre chances that, yes therecould be markers that match other peoples be they Jewish celts,saxons,angles, jutes,vikings or whomever. I really dont care I just want to find matches for my own, I joined the Germanna project and was quite taken aback that there were not more people involved. for sure there are not enough Yager/Yeager's involved I think that I failed to inform you that I am clasified as being in haplogroup R1. We are hoping to find more males of the Piney Woods families to have their DNA tested to confirm FTDNA's findings, and further you may want to consult with Corlee Morris, and Jan Creek, to verify that what I written is authentic,do not want to mislead anyone. Vaughn Yeager     FTDNA'S findings. You may want to consult with Corlee Morris and Jan Creek to verify that what I have posted here is authentic. Vaughn Yeager --- On Sun, 6/27/10, George W. Durman <[email protected]> wrote: From: George W. Durman <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Y-DNA To: [email protected] Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 2:51 AM Having studied linguistics, anthropology, archeology, social/cultural evolution, etc., for many of years, it is no mystery to me why some of our Germanna families might have some markers the same as people of "Jewish" descent. We all descend from people, thousands of years ago, from the Near-East/Mid-East, and it's no wonder that we might have the same markers as people who eventually became "Jewish", and, as a matter of fact, who eventually became "Arabic".  We're from the same gene pool, c.10,000-2,000 years ago (maybe even 50,000-30,000 years ago), but that doesn't mean that any of our Germanna ancestors were "Jewish", as far as racial/ethnic identity or religion is concerned; we just have some markers that are the same from our ancient ancestors, before there was such an identity as "Jewish".  If we were to compare the DNA of Germanna people to "Arabic" people, we would find many of the same marker matches, but does that mean our Germanna ancestors were "Arabic"?  Of course not!  You cannot compare DNA haplogroup markers while ignoring social/cultural influences.  Read "The Seven Daughters of Eve" (referenced below) and read Dr. Peter A. Underhill's works on the "10 European Founding Fathers",  and the books by Luigi Luca CAVALLI-SFORZA, listed below. Some books that you might read to help understand human history from pre-historic times to the present: ANTHONY, David W. - The Horse, The Wheel, And Language:  How Bronze-Age Riders From The Steppes Shaped The Modern World (This one will tell you where your ancestors came from, how the languages of your ancestors came about, and how you are related to modern people who are "Jewish".) CAVALLI-SFORZA, Luigi Luca, & CAVALLI-SFORZA, Francesco - The Great Human Diasporas:  The History of Diversity and Evolution CAVALLI-SFORZA, Luigi Luca - Genes, Peoples, And Languages (This one will explain the Y-Chromosome studies of our ancestors.) MITHEN, Steven - After The Ice:  A Global Human History OLSON, Steve - Mapping Human History:  Genes, Race, And Our Common Origins WADE, Nicholas - Before The Dawn:  Recovering The Lost History of Our Ancestors SYKES, Bryan -The Seven Daughters Of Eve SYKES, Bryan - Saxons, Vikings, and Celts:  The Genetic Roots of Britain And Ireland WELLS, Spencer - The Journey Of Man:  A Genetic Odyssey I've read most of these books and am in the process of finishing the rest.  Yes, I read several at once, switching back and forth to vary the topic. Plus, I have several more on the same topics, that I haven't even opened yet.  I don't give a whit about the present discussion of whether or nor any of our Germanna ancestors were "Jewish", it's just that so many people writing on the subject are so totally ignorant of our human history. ======================================================= In reference to Clai Bachmann's post: "The Willhite Y-DNA haplogroup is R1b1b2a1a3. Haplogroup R1b1b2 is by far the most common group in western Europe and declines significantly to the east... This haplogroup is common among most of the primary groups who settled in Britain (Britons, Scots, Saxons, Vikings, Normans.) Haplogroup R1b1b2a1a3 is a small subclade of the preceding group.  Outside of England, it has been found mainly in men from the Württemberg/Rhine Valley area of Germany (home of our ancestor). Present indications are that it arrived in England with the Anglo-Saxons. This subclade is defined by the presence of the marker L1/S26/DYS439(null). It occurs in less than half of a percent of R1b males, mainly with roots in the south and east of England and in Germany.   I have seen other references that said in a sense our roots may have very well been Jewish and we were part of a people who fled persecution and settled in and around the Mainz area in Germany.  Alls I know it awaits the results of further study." What is said about the Haplogroups is correct, but the inference that "our roots may have very well been Jewish..." is making assumptions in the absence of any sort of credible genetic data.  If we trace back far enough, we'll find genetic data that puts us in the same families as those who eventually became "Jewish"; but, so what?!  Damn It!  If we go back far enough, we'll find connections to the present occupants of Africa -- does that mean we're "Africans"? Leave this "Jewish question" alone!  Out Germanna ancestors were Christian for many, many centuries before immigrating from Germany.  Who cares if they have "some" "Jewish" markers?!  They were not "Jewish", either racially, ethnically, or culturally!  If you go back far enough, you'll find, via DNA, that all the Kings and Queens of Europe have some "Jewish" markers in their DNA.  If you could go back and sample Caesar's DNA, you'd probably find he had some Haplogroup markers in common with future "Jewish" people. In short, whether or not our Germanna ancestors share Haplogroup markers with "Jewish" people, those Germanna ancestors were not "Jewish", racially, culturally, or socially.   Those Germanna ancestors never knew the word "Jewish" as it applied to their families! So, let's stop with this pseudo-analysis of DNA of "Jewishness".  Do a lot of reading and then come back and argue the point. If you do nothing else, read David W. Anthony's book referenced above.  It will set you straight. Sarge ======================================================= My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry/~george/index.html If you refer to a Germanna descendant, include a link to your on-line data. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I can convert the photos to grayscale if needed. Also, I haven't put in the type for the postage yet as I need to check on what it should say (would need to do that if we have Dominion addressing these). Ginnie

I will give them copies of our most recent newsletter by Ginnie Nuta and the 50 year history of the Foundation by Katharine Brown to show them that we are in this for the long haul - and trumpeting our reunion will help them as much as us! Marc Wheat President, The Germanna Foundation www.germanna.org Add your support with every purchase when you use the Memorial Foundation of the Germanna Colonies in Virginia, Inc. Platinum® Visa Rewards card. Apply at http://www.cardpartner.com/app/germanna-foundation --- On Sun, 6/27/10, Virginia Nuta <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Virginia Nuta <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Ancestry.com > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, June 27, 2010, 12:13 PM > How about announcing our Reunion in > their on-line newsletter? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marc Wheat" <[email protected]> > To: "Germanna Colonies" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:10 AM > Subject: [GERMANNA] Ancestry.com > > > >A friend of the Germanna Foundation is arranging for me > to meet with a top > >representative of Ancestry.com. > > > > What would you like me to ask Ancestry to do that > would be helpful to > > Germanna researchers? > > > > We have long talked about developing a large database > of Germanna > > descendants so that new researchers can quickly > discover their Germanna > > heritage on-line.  I would like to explore with > Ancestry their suggestions > > on how we can build a virtual database by linking or > cross-indexing > > smaller databases maintained Germanna Family > Committes. > > > > George Durman has a great site with strength in the 2d > colony.  Google > > "Marc Wheat Database" for mine focused on 1st > colony.  I post mine on > > Rootsweb (free and well-indexed) and have links to the > Germanna Foundation > > and Flickr for images of ancestors and their records. > > > > Perhaps Ancestry will let us register our databases so > that they will be > > indexed as Germanna-related, which will help us all > edit our overlapping > > branches.  Other ideas?  It's a good > opportunity, and is likely to take > > place Monday over lunch. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you refer to a Germanna descendant, include a link > to your on-line > > data. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version of virus > > signature database 5232 (20100627) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > If you refer to a Germanna descendant, include a link to > your on-line data. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >