Hello Sarge, I just took a look at "our" Germanna Tree, I looked down the list of editors on the right hand column...my email is patgenl@gmail.com so I was surprised to see someone else's name attached to patgenl...Do you have any ideas of what to do to fix this? Thanks, Pat Lowe Woodbury MN

I sure have missed what seems like very important info. I have no idea what the "invite" is all about. Would you take the time to tell me? Another topic, Ancestry has added info to my "Hoffman" family tree but it is incorrect. I have no idea where they got the info and I sure don't know how to correct it. They have my Hoffman faimy coming from a "Michael Hoffman". I have never seen anything about a Michael on my family tree. I don't add it to my family info when I copy it for friends and family. It really made me mad that somehow it got attached to my family. Harriet HOFFMAN Toothman </HTML>

I wanted to point out to everyone using the International marriage records from ancestry that these dates were just extracted from family group sheets and pedigrees in many cases so please BEWARE. Here is the info on this source. Source Information Yates Publishing. U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2004.Original data: This unique collection of records was extracted from a variety of sources including family group sheets and electronic databases. Originally, the information was derived from an array of materials including pedigree charts, family history articles, queries.

I thought I would TRY to introduce the John Thomas branch of the Thomas tree who went to NC to the Michael Thomas branch of the tree who went to KY along with so many other Culpeper families. So far, I have found NO ONE who might have migrated to Guilford Co., NC with John Thomas so if anyone knows of anyone who left Culpeper about 1771 or so for Guilford Co, please let me know. So back to my project, I wanted to TRY to show how all of the Germanna families had connections in KY. I need help. I left out the John Thomas family even though I suspect that his first wife,Mary, was from a Germanna family and maybe his 2nd wife, Sarah, was also. if anyone has time or is interested -- could you point out any other KY connections and/or intermarriages in this Blankenbaker line. Maybe I'll just pack up my toys and go back to updating my Germanna tree. Have to stay focused ------. TAke care. Marilyn Descendants of Hans Thomas Blankenbühler 1 Hans Thomas Blankenbühler 1652 - 1691 . +Anna Barbara Schöne 1664 - ... 2 Hans Nicholas Blankenbühler 1681 - 1743 ....... +Appolonia Käffer NOTE: her brother Wolff Michael Kaffer was the 2nd husband of Anna Maria Blankenbaker Thomas ........ 3 [2] Jacob Blankenbühler/Blankenbaker 1724/25 - 1801 ............ +[1] Mary Barbara Thomas 1733 - 1785 NOTE: As you can see below, she was the daughter of Hans/John and Mary. You will note lots of Germanna names in the spouses of their children. YEAGER, WILHITE, CHRISTLER .............. 4 Elizabeth Blankenbaker 1752 - 1820 They had children baptised at Hebron in Culpeper .................. +Ambrose Garriott 1745 - 1832 .............. 4 Samuel Blankenbaker 1754 - 1827 .................. +Amy Yeager - 1788 -- daughter of a Wilhite/Wilhoit and a Yeager .............. 4 Henry Jacob Blankenbaker 1756 - 1821 .................. +Phebe Yeager 1760 - 1812 -- sister to Amy .............. 4 Nicholas Blankenbaker 1758 - 1849 .................. +Fannie Wilhoit .............. 4 Thomas Blankenbaker 1762 - .................. +Jemima Christler NOTE: Jemima has two uncles who married into the Thomas family -- one line from Michael, brother of Hans and one line from Anna Magdalena Thomas Smith, sister to Hans/John and Michael ........ *2nd Wife of [2] Jacob Blankenbühler/Blankenbaker: ............ +Hannah Weaver 1765 - ........ 3 Dorothea Blankenbühler ............ +Lawrence Garr ........ 3 Michael Blankenbühler ............ +Elizabeth Barbara Garr ........ 3 Ursula Blankenbühler ............ +John Zimmerman ........ 3 Elizabeth Blankenbühler ... 2 Hans Balthazar Blankenbühler 1683 - 1772 ....... +Anne Margaret ........ 3 Elizabeth Blankenbühler Unknown - ............ +Adam Wayland 1725 - .............. 4 Elizabeth Wayland .................. +Morton Christopher .............. 4 John Wayland .................. +Rosina Willheit .............. 4 Mary Wayland .............. 4 Joshua Wayland .................. +Rachel Utz .............. 4 Lewis Wayland .................. +Elizabeth Link .............. 4 Anne Wayland .................. +Nicholas Yeager ........ 3 Anna Barbara Blankenbühler ............ +Lewis Fisher NOTE: His family did not intermarry with any Thomas descendants but his three sons interacted frequently with the Thomas/Smith sons in KY .............. 4 [4] Stephen Fisher - 1817 .................. +[3] Mary Magdalena Garr - 1817 .............. 4 Adam Fisher .................. +Elizabeth Garr .............. 4 Barnett Fisher .................. +Eve Wilhoit .............. 4 Eve Fisher .................. +Mark Finks, Jr. .............. 4 Mary Margaret Fisher .................. +Nicholas Wilhoit ... *2nd Wife of Hans Balthazar Blankenbühler: ....... +Margaret Blankenbühler Unknown - ... 2 Hans Matthias Blankenbühler 1684 - 1763 ....... +Anna Maria Merklin 1692/93 - ........ 3 Hannes Jerg Blankenbühler 1714/15 - ... 2 Anna Maria Blankenbühler 1687 - 1762 ....... +Johannes THOMA 1685 - 1721 ........ 3 Hans (John) Wendel THOMA/Thomas 1712 - 1785 ............ +Mary .............. 4 [1] Mary Barbara Thomas 1733 - 1785 .................. +[2] Jacob Blankenbühler/Blankenbaker 1724/25 - 1801 .............. 4 Mary Thomas 1737 - 1763 .................. +Joseph Holtzclaw 1734/35 - 1835 NOTE: He and Jacob were brothers. .............. 4 Elizabeth Thomas 1742 - 1817 .................. +Johann Rählsbach 1731 - 1810 .............. 4 Susannah Thomas 1745 - 1821 .................. +Jacob Holtzclaw 1737/38 - 1812 .............. 4 Michael Thomas, son of John 1755 - 1817 .................. +wife of Michael Thomas Barbara 1750 - 1835 ........ 3 Anna Magdalena THOMA/THOMAS 1715 - 1768 ............ +John Michael SMITH, Jr. 1712 - 1785 .............. 4 Zacharias Smith 1735 - 1816 .................. +Anna Elizabeth Fishback - 1770 .............. *2nd Wife of Zacharias Smith: .................. +Sara Ann Watts 1750 - 1835 .............. 4 Adam SMITH 1736 - 1793 .................. +wife of Adam Smith Elizabeth Unknown - .............. 4 Elizabeth Smith 1740 - 1785 .................. +Adam Barler/Barlow 1735 - 1786 .............. 4 Catherine Smith 1741 - .................. +John Marbes .............. 4 John Smith 1743 - 1809 .................. +Elizabeth .............. 4 Susannah Smith 1744 - .................. +John Berry, Jr. 1735 - 1798 .............. 4 Anna Magdalena Smith 1751 - 1824 .................. +John George Christler 1738 - 1818 ........ 3 Michael THOMAS 1718 - 1800 ............ +Catherine/Possibly Wayland - 1759 NOTE: how is she connected to Adam Wayland listed earlier .............. 4 Henry Thomas 1738 - 1817 .................. +Catherine Simmons 1760 - 1834 .............. 4 Samuel Thomas 1740 - 1822 .................. +Rachel Perry 1750 - 1833 .............. 4 John Thomas, son of Michael 1747 - 1817 .................. +Jamima Miller .............. 4 Jesse Thomas, son of Michael 1749 - 1805 .............. 4 Margaret Thomas 1750 - 1830 .................. +Everhart H. Hupp 1745 - 1830 .............. 4 Michael Thomas, son of Michael 1750 - 1840 .................. +Elizabeth Bennett 1763 - 1795 .............. *2nd Wife of Michael Thomas, son of Michael: .................. +Bridget Downing 1775 - 1830 .............. 4 Anna Maria Thomas 1752 - 1831 .................. +Michael Debolt 1745 - 1779 .............. *2nd Husband of Anna Maria Thomas: .................. +Michael Christler 1752 - 1836 .............. 4 Elizabeth Thomas 1754 - .................. +Possibly Anthony Berry .............. 4 Abraham THOMAS 1755 - 1843 .................. +Susannah SMITH, daughter of Adam 1761 - 1821 -- NOTE: a cousin from Thomas/Smith marriage .............. *2nd Wife of Abraham THOMAS: .................. +Mary Swailes nee Hathaway 1776 - 1859 ........ *2nd Wife of Michael THOMAS: ............ +Eve Susannah Hart 1750 - 1829 .............. 4 George B. Thomas 1771 - 1832 .................. +Lavinia Scholl 1778 - 1847 .............. 4 Solomon Thomas 1773 - 1837 .................. +Catherine Barnhill 1765 - 1830 .............. 4 Israel Thomas 1778 - 1855 .................. +Catherine Halbert 1787 - 1859 .............. 4 Daniel Thomas 1783 - 1853 .................. +Mary McQueen 1785 - 1858 .............. 4 Ann Thomas .............. 4 Barbara Thomas Unknown - .............. 4 Elizabeth Thomas Unknown - .................. +Mathias Rofelty .............. 4 Eve Thomas 1771 - .............. 4 Rachel Thomas Unknown - .............. 4 Sarah Thomas Unknown - ........ 3 Anna Margaret Thomas 1720 - 1806 ............ +Georg Heinrich Öhler/Henry Aylor 1718 - 1805 .............. 4 Henry Aylor, Jr. 1745 - 1812 .................. +Barbara Carpenter 1753 - 1820 .............. 4 Jacob Aylor 1748/49 - 1840 .................. +Frances Sparks - 1830 .............. 4 Abraham Aylor 1750 - .................. +Anna Maria Shearer .............. 4 Magdalena Aylor 1752 - 1820 .................. +Adam Delph 1745 - 1820 .............. 4 Delilah Aylor 1760 - 1850 .................. +Musco Newman 1760 - 1830 .............. 4 Mary Aylor 1750 - 1830 .................. +Eliott Bohannon, Jr. 1752 - 1824 .............. 4 Susannah Aylor 1760 - .................. +James Murray ... *2nd Husband of Anna Maria Blankenbühler: ....... +Wolff Michael Kaifer ........ 3 Elizabeth Kaifer ............ +John Adam Garr .............. 4 [3] Mary Magdalena Garr - 1817 .................. +[4] Stephen Fisher - 1817 NOTE: As noted earlier --a Blankenbaker descendant .............. 4 Rosanna Garr .................. +Johann Theobold Christler -- Note: Two sons from this marriage were the uncles mentioned in note on Jemima Christler

Terrie and all, On the Ancestry database, I have added a line down this pair and will flesh it out as time permits. Libby

> <gneolog@aol.com> wrote: > > > One of our Thomas family has a match on family finder DNA with a > > Germanna Snyder family. I know there is talk of Mary Tanner being > > the wife of Hans Thomas and if I understand correctly, Henry Snyder > > had some Tanner grandchildren. It is a long shot BUT if there any > > possibility that the Mary Tanner suspected as the wife of Hans > > Thomas was a relative of Henry Snyder and descendants for both might > > still share DNA. Thanks for any help. Marilyn > > Hi Marilyn, > > The common thread here may somehow involve the AYLOR family. (Or, this may be a wild goose chase!) > > Henry Snyder only named one child in his will, Anna Magdalena Aylor, mother of Henry Aylor Sr and his sister Elizabeth (who married Christopher Tanner). It was Elizabeth and Christopher who gave Henry Snyder (at least) 8 Tanner great-grandchildren. The will is the sole source of this conclusion that Henry Snyder only had one child, as far as I know. As you mentioned in another context recently, just because someone is not named in the will doesn't mean they are not a child. It cannot be conclusively stated that Henry Snyder had no other children. Just none that we know of. > > Including the Aylors here would not explain a direct blood relationship between Thomas and Snyder through the Tanners, since it was Henry Aylor who married Margaret Thomas. There could be a link from Thomas to Snyder through the Aylors if one of Henry Aylor's descendants married a Thomas. I am unaware of any such marriage. The only one I know of that comes close was when Eliza Carpenter (daughter of Aaron Carpenter and Elizabeth Aylor, daughter of Henry Aylor Jr) married Rueben Thomas sometime before 1842 in VA. [There may be others I don't know of yet]. > > I hope somehow this is helpful. Sorry I don't know anything about Mary Tanner and Hans Thomas. > > Jeff Aylor > jaylor@jaylhouse.com > "A problem well stated is a problem half solved." - C.F. Kettering > >

It was just baptism practices that I swore not to write about. I have to chime in here. George, you and Virginia, are very correct in your thinking. Sometimes we seem to disagree in the use of vocabulary. Serfs were originally the same as slaves, gradually and by the time of Martin Luther, the Germanic serfs were call peasants in the English language. Remember the Peasants' War [Deutscher Bauernkrieg} that failed. Peasant in the 1900 edition of Cassell's German dictionary has the follows: der Bauer, Landmann. The second definition has bauerlich, lannlich which is the adj. form. then a second part of the second definition has bauerlicher means proprietor. I had just acquired the dictionary when I found out that my Gable family had been serfs on a Monastery right at Offenbach, sw of Lauterecken. Wollfstein is the larger town southeast of Offenbach. This was about 1738. The document exists where they went through a legal system to be declared free persons before they could get permission to leave in the early 1700s. Within the document it is clear that they were bound to the land. They arrived safely in American and now have tens of thousands of descendents. They had possessions to sell, apparently, to pay the passage. It was a full year from the time they left until they were in Pennsylvania. I recall being taught in high school by a excellent history teacher. He told us serfs were bound to the land and could not leave without permission of the noble man to whom they were bound. However, he also taught us that few were given permission until a few hundred years ago. Then he said slaves were bound to their master and could be bought and sold, but serfs were bound to the land where they lived. Even when the nobleman lost a battle and lost his "little kingdom" the serfs were still bound to the land. The serfs of Russia were some of the last serfs to be freed. Cary ----- Original Message ----- From: "George W. Durman" <GermannaResearch@comcast.net> To: <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com>; "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com>; <Germans-VA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > > Ginnie, I think you are on the right track. Our German ancestors who > left what is now Germany certainly weren't destitute. If they were, they > certainly couldn't afford to come to America. Most were artisans of > some sort and had the wherewithal to afford the trip. > > Sarge > > At 9/5/2011 02:29 PM Monday, Virginia Nuta wrote: > *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* > >Hi Cary-- > > > >Allow me just to venture a thought abut the social status of the emigrants > >from Germany. I have long wondered how a "serf" would get the wherewithall > >to travel down the Rhine, pay all the tolls, and get the ship to England -- > >often with a family in tow -- even if the plan was to pay for passage by > >being indentured. Young men, maybe, who could work their passage -- young > >men from Schwaigern have been described as slipping out during the night -- > >, but families? > > > >I wonder if the families that left weren't a little higher on the scale. > >Small farmers who had their own land to sell; artisans who perhaps had a > >house, a loom, some tools to sell. The immigrant John George Schaible, for > >example, was a weaver. (See Patricia Lowe's article about him in the > >September issue of the GRG Journal, www.germannacolonies.org.) > > > >A.G. Roeber in his book "Palatines, Liberty and Property: German Lutherans > >in Colonial British America," (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, > >2003, 2008), describes inventories of the estates of villagers and small > >towns in Wurttemberg, the Kraichgau area, and the Palatine. He says that > >books were present in almost every inventory in Wurttemberg, although > >slightly less so in the Kraichgau and fewer in the Palatinate. He also > >describes the towns of the wine-growing areas that our ancestors lived in as > >being fairly prosperous. But the small holders and the small artisans could > >be pressed by bad weather and population growth, and they had to struggle to > >maintain themselves. I would think that this class of people would be more > >likely to produce our immigrant families than a landless serf. > > > >Just a thought--I have had a hard time finding books about the material and > >social culture of SW Germany, at that time, that are in English. Would love > >to hear from others. > > > >Ginnie > > > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------- > >From: "Cary Anderson" <drcary@cox.net> > >Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 1:15 PM > >To: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com>; <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> > >Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > > > >> Rarely, was the child not baptized in the parish church is the info I've > >> gained from my close friends who are genealogical and historical experts > >> in > >> Germany. In severe cases and with clout, it was occasionally done. It > >> was > >> in Bismarck's days when the rights of the nobility to basically "own" the > >> peasants was abolished. Remember the last king of independent country of > >> Bavarian? Ludwig the Mad! He bankrupted a lot of the nobility. You can > >> imagine what happened to the peasantry! > >> > >> Remember, these folks that left Germany for America and elsewhere were > >> usually quite poor serf's bound to the local baron or count! In many > >> cases > >> they were looked upon as just a bit about the cows, pigs, hogs, etc. > >> > >> In Wittenberg, it was in 1738 when the ban on leaving without permission > >> was > >> lifted for the peasants. > >> > >> Few folks leave a good life to venture to the unknown. That was even more > >> so back into he 1700s. > >> > >> I, myself, have mental pictures based on the very nice homes, etc., seen > >> in > >> the villages of Germany. One must remember the Marshall plan was also > >> used > >> to modernized homes outside and in that were not destroyed in WWII. > >> > >> I am so glad that this list is so much more active that the past couple > >> years. > >> > >> Keep it up folks. > >> > >> Cary > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com> > >> To: <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 9:17 AM > >> Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > >> > >> > >> I was baptized on my day of birth due to being so sickly and my chance of > >> survival was slim. Two of my older brothers had the same condition and > >> both > >> died within 1 and 3 days of birth. I would say that the fact that the > >> mother > >> did not attend may be an indicator that the mother and child has a rough > >> time of it, and that their religous beliefs were that a person needed to > >> be > >> baptised to have entry to Heaven... > >> > >> Kathy > >> TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 > >> http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 > >> http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: > http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna > > My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html > > TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sarge, I was about five when my sister gave birth in 1947. She was a wartime bride, but her husband did live far away--22 miles. My father insisted a bed be set up in the living room. She was brought from The county seat, 14 miles away, by ambulance of some sort--probably a hearse. I don't know exactly how long she state bed-fast, but it seemed an eternity as I was no longer the pet of the family as being the youngest, son, grandson, and great-grandson! I have heard of a few cases of an expectant mother giving birth in a church, during the mass or service. Now, I guess that might be a case where the mother was present at the baptism. I will try to be silent for awhile. I fear I am going from the ridiculous to the insane. But it is the truth all I write except the previous sentence. I promise Cary ----- Original Message ----- From: "George W. Durman" <GermannaResearch@comcast.net> To: <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com>; "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com>; <Germans-VA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 4:01 AM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > > Cary, or even a few days or a week later? > > Sarge > > At 9/5/2011 01:01 PM Monday, Cary Anderson wrote: > *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* > >You may have missed the point! How many mother's would get up, get dressed > >and walk 4 miles on the day the child was born? > > > >Cary > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com> > >To: <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> > >Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 9:17 AM > >Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > > > > > >I was baptized on my day of birth due to being so sickly and my chance of > >survival was slim. Two of my older brothers had the same condition and both > >died within 1 and 3 days of birth. I would say that the fact that the mother > >did not attend may be an indicator that the mother and child has a rough > >time of it, and that their religous beliefs were that a person needed to be > >baptised to have entry to Heaven... > > > >Kathy > >TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 > >http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.htm l > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** > > My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: > http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna > > My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html > > TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Some time ago, I requested that anyone posting about the Germanna Tree at Ancestry post both to the Germanna_Colonies Mailing List and the Germans-VA Mailing List. So far, about 99.99% of the posts to the Germanna_Colonies List haven't also included the Germans-VA List as a recipient. Just be aware the Germans-VA List is as legitimate a List as the Germanna_ Colonies List for us German descendants. (Notice I didn't say "Germanna descendants"?) In fact, I think the Germans in Culpeper/Madison Co. and the Germans in the Shenandoah Vally, and the Germans from PA and MD who came down the "Great Wagon Road", are so intertwined that when we speak of Germans in East TN, we shouldn't limit it to "Germanna Descendants". We should, instead, speak of "German" descendants there. I think that next year the East Tennessee Reunion will be called the "East Tennessee Settlers Reunion". That will include all the Germans from "Germanna" and from the Shenandoah Valley, and all the non-German families that married into German families in East Tennessee. Sarge My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html

Ginnie, I think you are on the right track. Our German ancestors who left what is now Germany certainly weren't destitute. If they were, they certainly couldn't afford to come to America. Most were artisans of some sort and had the wherewithal to afford the trip. Sarge At 9/5/2011 02:29 PM Monday, Virginia Nuta wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >Hi Cary-- > >Allow me just to venture a thought abut the social status of the emigrants >from Germany. I have long wondered how a "serf" would get the wherewithall >to travel down the Rhine, pay all the tolls, and get the ship to England -- >often with a family in tow -- even if the plan was to pay for passage by >being indentured. Young men, maybe, who could work their passage -- young >men from Schwaigern have been described as slipping out during the night -- >, but families? > >I wonder if the families that left weren't a little higher on the scale. >Small farmers who had their own land to sell; artisans who perhaps had a >house, a loom, some tools to sell. The immigrant John George Schaible, for >example, was a weaver. (See Patricia Lowe's article about him in the >September issue of the GRG Journal, www.germannacolonies.org.) > >A.G. Roeber in his book "Palatines, Liberty and Property: German Lutherans >in Colonial British America," (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, >2003, 2008), describes inventories of the estates of villagers and small >towns in Wurttemberg, the Kraichgau area, and the Palatine. He says that >books were present in almost every inventory in Wurttemberg, although >slightly less so in the Kraichgau and fewer in the Palatinate. He also >describes the towns of the wine-growing areas that our ancestors lived in as >being fairly prosperous. But the small holders and the small artisans could >be pressed by bad weather and population growth, and they had to struggle to >maintain themselves. I would think that this class of people would be more >likely to produce our immigrant families than a landless serf. > >Just a thought--I have had a hard time finding books about the material and >social culture of SW Germany, at that time, that are in English. Would love >to hear from others. > >Ginnie > > > >-------------------------------------------------- >From: "Cary Anderson" <drcary@cox.net> >Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 1:15 PM >To: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com>; <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> >Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > >> Rarely, was the child not baptized in the parish church is the info I've >> gained from my close friends who are genealogical and historical experts >> in >> Germany. In severe cases and with clout, it was occasionally done. It >> was >> in Bismarck's days when the rights of the nobility to basically "own" the >> peasants was abolished. Remember the last king of independent country of >> Bavarian? Ludwig the Mad! He bankrupted a lot of the nobility. You can >> imagine what happened to the peasantry! >> >> Remember, these folks that left Germany for America and elsewhere were >> usually quite poor serf's bound to the local baron or count! In many >> cases >> they were looked upon as just a bit about the cows, pigs, hogs, etc. >> >> In Wittenberg, it was in 1738 when the ban on leaving without permission >> was >> lifted for the peasants. >> >> Few folks leave a good life to venture to the unknown. That was even more >> so back into he 1700s. >> >> I, myself, have mental pictures based on the very nice homes, etc., seen >> in >> the villages of Germany. One must remember the Marshall plan was also >> used >> to modernized homes outside and in that were not destroyed in WWII. >> >> I am so glad that this list is so much more active that the past couple >> years. >> >> Keep it up folks. >> >> Cary >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com> >> To: <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 9:17 AM >> Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth >> >> >> I was baptized on my day of birth due to being so sickly and my chance of >> survival was slim. Two of my older brothers had the same condition and >> both >> died within 1 and 3 days of birth. I would say that the fact that the >> mother >> did not attend may be an indicator that the mother and child has a rough >> time of it, and that their religous beliefs were that a person needed to >> be >> baptised to have entry to Heaven... >> >> Kathy >> TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 >> http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 >> http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html

Cary, or even a few days or a week later? Sarge At 9/5/2011 01:01 PM Monday, Cary Anderson wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >You may have missed the point! How many mother's would get up, get dressed >and walk 4 miles on the day the child was born? > >Cary >----- Original Message ----- >From: "kshepard" <menotyou17@yahoo.com> >To: <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 9:17 AM >Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] Baptism on day of birth > > >I was baptized on my day of birth due to being so sickly and my chance of >survival was slim. Two of my older brothers had the same condition and both >died within 1 and 3 days of birth. I would say that the fact that the mother >did not attend may be an indicator that the mother and child has a rough >time of it, and that their religous beliefs were that a person needed to be >baptised to have entry to Heaven... > >Kathy >TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 >http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html

Kathy, I can certainly understand what you are saying, but back in the "old country", it was very unusual for a child to be baptized on the day of birth, and even in the Germanna area of VA in the early days. In the absence of more data, when I find a baptism record in Germany, without a birth date, I always enter the birth date as "before the baptism date". Sarge At 9/5/2011 10:17 AM Monday, kshepard wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >I was baptized on my day of birth due to being so sickly and my chance of survival was slim. Two of my older brothers had the same condition and both died within 1 and 3 days of birth. I would say that the fact that the mother did not attend may be an indicator that the mother and child has a rough time of it, and that their religous beliefs were that a person needed to be baptised to have entry to Heaven... > >Kathy >TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html

Yeah, you can be assured that Ancestry WILL claim anything posted there as "their" property. I don't have a problem with that. The folks out in Utah are trying to get everyone in the world "sealed" and make a profit to boot, or at least break even. I do hope the reputation of the Tree will get around and that many others will want to participate in adding to the Tree. And, yes, I may, sooner or later, have to limit the number of people with "Editing" rights. I've already seen that some participants just don't know how to navigate in the database and have made mistakes, or (tell me it isn't so), don't care what's in the Tree and add, delete, edit the data to suit what they "believe". I've already restricted some to "Contributor" (they can't Edit), and one to "Viewer" (he/she can only "look"). Yes, there IS a "learning curve". IMPORTANT! If you aren't sure what you're doing or HOW to do it, send me a personal email and ask me. No, I'm not by a long shot an expert at this Ancestry "Shared Database" thing, but I've had to correct so many errors already that I "think" I have somewhat of a handle on it. What really ticks me off is that, again, the people at Ancestry who programmed the part of their domain for the "Shared Databases" don't know diddly-squat about anything having to do with parsing text entries. I've fought for the past 2 hours over how to format text in "Stories" and just gave up. If you or anyone else has tried to enter formatted text, like entering Census data in "Courier New" font so that columns line up, you may have given up already. I tried to format some Census data for some people, using "Courier New" font so the columns would line up, and the damned program at Ancestry keeps inserting blank spaces, seemingly at random. All I can say is, "DO NOT DELETE ANYONE FROM THE DATABASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Repeat, "DO NOT DELETE ANYONE FROM THE DATABASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Do you get it? You can Edit, Add, etc., but if you delete someone, he/she is gone forever in the Tree! You can "detach" wherever you think necessary, but DO NOT DELETE ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unlinking is easy. Just do it and don't delete anyone. That way, things can later be corrected. Craig, you're not the only one who totally deleted someone, several people have done the same thing. And, dang it, I have to go back in and add those deleted people and their known children. If the wife or husband is wrong, DON'T DELETE A SPOUSE! DETACH THE SPOUSE! Sorry, it's late and I'm wrung out with this Germanna Tree at Ancestry thing. How would you like to have several hundred emails every day to deal with, all having to do with the Tree? I'm just tired, Sarge At 9/5/2011 01:17 AM Monday, Craig Kilby wrote: *********START OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT********* >George, > >I guess you call it the "base" database. To touch lightly on copyright, do not be surprised if ancestry.com claims that anything on that tree is "their" property. So, if you don't want to see your research sold on a CD, or show up Lord knows where, etc, DO NOT ADD IT IN. That being said, I think most of us want to produce as accurate a picture as we can, with the best documentation we can. Frankly, I see it as an opportunity to at least get ONE on-line version of my own tree as right as it can be for now. I think the reputation of this tree will get around quickly and I foresee good things for it. George may have to limit the number of people he has editing it, however. I know we are all in a learning curve right now, and that is to be expected. There's that can't be fixed if we make blunders or delete someone instead of unlinking them (how do I do that?) > > > >Craig > >On Sep 5, 2011, at 12:33 AM, George W. Durman wrote: > >> As far as publishing, I don't have a clue. I posted my original database at Ancestry and allowed it to be "Shared". Since no one else had done the same thing, it seems that now everyone is using the database I posted, my database with all its errors. >> >> Keep working with the Ancestry Tree. I suspect that since so much work has already been done on it, it may become the de facto database. Keep correcting, keep editing. > >TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **********END OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE TEXT*********** My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html

Things are set for the Reunion. We will meet at 12:00 Noon on Friday, get acquainted, have a presentation, and then adjourn for supper. The old country store by the church is now a restaurant as well as a restored historical building. The restaurant's cuisine is renowned for it's fantastic BBQ. On Friday's, BBQ ribs are the main course. I've notified the present owner, Donny Hall, that he will have a couple dozen more customers on Friday. I figure we'll also have lunch there on Saturday and then maybe have supper at The Farmer's Daughter restaurant over on Hwy. 107. Have several speakers, all of whom I'm sure will entertain you. And don't forget the special appearance of a Germanna ancestor, who will speak to you about why our ancestors left Germany, why they migrated from Virginia to other places, and what special attractions East Tennessee had for those migrants. See you on Friday, Sarge My Germanna Database at Rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=germanna My Germanna Website at Rootsweb: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/index.html

Sharon, Which families were these, and when? Craig On Sep 2, 2011, at 6:32 PM, Sherron Nay wrote: > Several of the Little Fork families landed in PA.

Ginnie, I agree. And remember, the traffic goes in both directions and it is equally likely that some who landed in Virginia went to Pennsylvania, and then to "the Valley--or simply met up in the Valley. You are also right, IMO, about the people who left Germany being above the peasant class. For example, we know Jacob Holtzclaw was a teacher. I don't know that it would be right to call the peasants "serfs" but darned near to it. Regardless, I agree that class would not have the means or even the knowledge of going to America. And yes, these people did communicate back and forth. That much is abundantly evident from the records that do survive in terms of correspondence and other records. (FInding a German preacher for both colonies, getting the organ for the Hebron Lutheran Church in Philadelphia, for example.) I have two good examples of both of these situations, though are in two different centuries. (1) For YEARS I was stumped on the origins of one Claud Vallott "aka Champagne" who mysteriously shows up out of nowhere in Middlesex County, VA. I had always thought that meant he was from Champagne, France but was never sure. If you've done French genealogy you know the "dit" names are maddening. So, one day a few years ago I posted a query about this to a fairly knowledgable and national list and VOILA! Two people (both expert researchers) wrote back with TONS of published material on this man, who had come over with Lord Carteret to New Jersey in 1665 as a high ranking member of his household staff. When things got tought for Carteret in New Jersey in 1679, Claud found it convenient to land on the Rappahannock River in Middlesex County, where he then married. This is what I mean about the traffic going in both directions. The lady who really had the most information said she was quite familiar with this man, because she had studied so many NJ families and was used to the traffic going from Virginia to New Jersey. And oh, yes--he really was from the Province of Champagne, which is spelled out like diamonds in the sky in the New Jersey records. (2) Now, for some Germans in the 1800s. One of my mother's line comes from the same Freudenburg that some of the Germanna colonists came from, though much later. We are fortunate to have many, many letters written back and forth from there and the US that give a lot of reasons why they left (economic & political reasons, mainly) in the first place, and how others had either already come, or were planning to come, over. So, correspondence is nothing to be surprised about. So, even though these are different groups at different times, human nature does not change much if at all over the millenia. Craig On Sep 2, 2011, at 6:49 PM, Virginia Nuta wrote: > Suzanne's right about the two Virginia colonies referred to as "Germanna," > but let me just add that as far as the 1717 Germanna group goes, they had > intended to land in PA, and it is believed that there were three other ships > leaving at the same time which did land in Pennsylvania. > > Thus, it is possible that their friends and relatives arrived in PA and some > did then travel south to VA and joined the group.

Just wondering if anyone had the exact source and citation for the birth of John Michael Thomas, Jr. Anita, I do not have a birth and death date for either of the wives of John Thomas. <sigh> Also what do most consider as his date of death? Take care. Marilyn

Does anyone know if the Rev. Anthony Jacob Henckel and his family traveled with the Germanna group that came in 1717? The information I have seen states they came to Philadelphia in 1717 and there were three ships. Also, thanks to Lisa for mentioning the book on Lutheran history in Pa. On page 80 it states the grave of Mrs. Anthony Jacob Henckle was opened in 1910 at St. Michaels in Philadelphia to see if her husband, the pastor at St. Michael's was buried first and she on top of him. They found that to be true. Was this a custom at that time? I have read that it was common in Germany as burial spots were rented for twenty years. If someone was buried on top, then there would be twenty additional years. However, space surely was not a problem in Philadelphia. Lisa, I also descend from the Heifner family in Pa and Maryland which may be the same family you mentioned, only spelled Haffner. My immigrant ancestor was Albertus Heifner, Lutheran school teacher. Jane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia Nuta" <vrnuta@verizon.net> To: <germans-va@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [GERMANNA] [GERMANS-VA] Asking for Assistance > Suzanne's right about the two Virginia colonies referred to as "Germanna," > but let me just add that as far as the 1717 Germanna group goes, they had > intended to land in PA, and it is believed that there were three other > ships > leaving at the same time which did land in Pennsylvania. > > Thus, it is possible that their friends and relatives arrived in PA and > some > did then travel south to VA and joined the group. We commonly acknowledge > many families, even if they weren't in the original group, as Second > Colony > Germanna families because they married into the original families, (who > had > arrived in VA), lived in the same German-speaking community, and built > and > worshipped in a Lutheran church together. > > Some such families came fairly early, like the Wilheits and the > Carpenters. > Others came later. Mathias House, for example, arrived in Culpeper Co., > VA, > in 1771 and is thought to have come from Augusta County. What is most > fascinating to me is that many of the "later" arriving families, who > settled > with the Second Colony Germanna families, were from the same villages. > For > example, the Koch/Cook family, which was an original Second Colony > Germanna > family, was from Schwaigern, Germany. They were later joined by the > Wilheits, the Leathers, the Reiners, the Baumgardners, and the Teters. > The > Blankenbaker, Schaible, Schlucter, Thomas and Fleishman families all came > from Nuenburg, but the Thomas family came later. > > These later arrivals would have come through Pennsylvania. > > The more I learn, the more I believe that the ancestors moved around a lot > more than we think and communicated more with their families and neighbors > than we think. > > Virginia Nuta > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Suzanne Matson" <scmatson@windstream.net> > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 6:05 PM > To: <germans-va@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [GERMANS-VA] Asking for Assistance > >> The Germanna groups did not land in NY or PA. They landed in Virginia, >> one >> group in 1714 and one group in 1717. >> http://germannacolonies.org is an excellent place to look. >> >> Suzanne Collins Matson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: germans-va-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:germans-va-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of susi c pentico >> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 5:57 PM >> To: germans-va@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [GERMANS-VA] Asking for Assistance >> >> >> Since your talking of Germannia here I am hoping this will be accepted >> and >> answered. >> >> Since the Gremannia people migrated south to this area I need help with >> potential urls and sites to learn of information in NY or Pa for >> researching >> this line as it came south. Does anyone have good urls or sources to >> share? >> >> Please and Thanks >> >> I am still attempting to see if my John is from the Germannnia group. >> >> Susi >> ******** >> Hear Bill Barker (aka Thomas Jefferson at Colonial Williamsburg) speak >> October 1, 2011, at Graves Mountain Lodge, Madison Co, VA. For more >> information: http://germannacolonies.org >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMANS-VA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ******** >> Hear Bill Barker (aka Thomas Jefferson at Colonial Williamsburg) speak >> October 1, 2011, at Graves Mountain Lodge, Madison Co, VA. For more >> information: http://germannacolonies.org >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMANS-VA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ******** > Hear Bill Barker (aka Thomas Jefferson at Colonial Williamsburg) speak > October 1, 2011, at Graves Mountain Lodge, Madison Co, VA. For more > information: http://germannacolonies.org > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMANS-VA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > TN Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Libby, Also, in the Settle/Suttle Family by William Emmett Reese p. 531 is states: Edward Settle married in Culpeper Co., VA, circa 1812, Lucy Fishback, daughter of John and Alice (Morgan) Fishback. This book is also recognized by the DAR and they cite as a source Will Book N. p. 239 Culpeper County, VA. Debby -----Original Message----- From: Libbybaker <Libbybaker@aol.com> To: germanna_colonies <germanna_colonies@rootsweb.com>; Germans-VA <Germans-VA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 6:08 pm Subject: [GERMANNA] Lucy Fishback m. Edward Settle eing a novice at making additions or changes to the Germanna tree, I have question before I delete or change anybody. ucy Fishback, daughter of John Fishback and Alice Morgan, is cited as orn 1805 in Madison County, VA, and is said to have married Aaron W. Lacy. I onder if someone could cite the source for this connection. I don't ant to step on toes by deleting Aaron. y research shows that this Lucy was born about 1794 in Culpeper and arried Edward Settle about 1812. She died in Culpeper about 1865. The enealogy of the Fishback Family by Kemper page 112 confirms this. Also, page 28 of "Beyond Germanna" v. 8, n.1 "John Fishback Family Bible" copied by ohn Gott in 1995 lists the children of John Fishback and Alice Morgan, #VI, ucy Fishback, m. Settle. This is a DAR line I have recently proved. o I guess I'm asking for an OK to delete Aaron and add my line. ibby N Germanna Reunion - Sept. 9-11 http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~george/easttennesseereunion2011.html ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANNA_COLONIES-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Just a Quick sharing. I am just finishing a historical non-fiction book that descibes life in a German village from 1500 to 1850. The title is "Our Daily Bread", by Teva J. Scheer. It was published in 2010 and I think it cost less than $10. It is based upon historical records and paints a fascinating picture of life in a fictitious village in the area of Germany close to the city of Heilbronn. Jim Willhite