Amen to this !! My grown (40 years old and plus) children and I were arguing over " whatever happened to personal responsibility" and they think the people don't have any ...haha...and I think that we each must have it ! Maybe it was because I was a single parent working hard to exist and didn't have the time to teach [thoroughly] the manners and responsibility's each person has to and for their own actions. I am saddened by all this behaviour and the reactions to it nationwide. jlerch > > Hmmm. (deep in thought) Now what was that again? Oh Yeah: > > > German life having such a strong, positive impact on American ideals, > work ethics, and citizenship, it's probably not inappropriate to note > here that those who complain about the ballots had whatever opportunity > was necessary to prepare themselves to vote. > > The presidential campaign ran for nearly a year pointing at the day in > November for casting ballots. Whatever happened to personal > responsibility? Why is it, now, always the other guy's fault? >

Hello...I saw small glass snap-on-candles for christmas trees at WalMart store 2 days ago. They also had the holder there and at Big KMart. Good Luck, jlerch > Hi Gail, > They are snap on holders. I bought my in Germany. > Give me a few days. I saw them some where on the net. > I will look for them. > Katharina > > > > >Katharina, I want to know what the small candles are set on so that they > >can > >be attached to the Christmas tree. I know my grandmother just didn't set a > >candle on a branch and I was in a German shop the other day and they had > >the > >candles but that was all. > > > >Gail > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > >

Katharina, I want to know what the small candles are set on so that they can be attached to the Christmas tree. I know my grandmother just didn't set a candle on a branch and I was in a German shop the other day and they had the candles but that was all. Gail

On 21 Nov 2000, at 9:31, [email protected] wrote: > Amen to that. (Ancestors turning over in their graves). > > One question I have concerning German life is when the people were > living in that area classified as Alsace Lorraine and the borders kept > changing, did everyone have to change the country of birth they listed > on their applications for naturalization. What if it was France when > they were born and then Germany when they left? Just wondering how > the general population dealt with all the government change. One normally "feels" what one is. It goes back to the mother tongue. Obviously a document reflects the current situation when issued otherwise it would be a lie but in their heart people know who they are. For example, my passport says that I was born in Elbing, Germany even though, when issued, Elbing had been incorporated into Poland as Elblag. In other words, when I was born it was Germany and the passport reflects that truth. Fred 4788 Corian Court Naples, FL 34114 941-775-7838 [email protected] Florida Law - count dimples but not military votes

Judy, I don't know if I am much help but what I have is the announcement in the paper of the person's death. It was an article outlined in black but mine only listed the wife and her maiden name but none of the children etc. The family never received a obit as we see them today so I don't know if there was more published. Gail

--part1_b0.c854ac8.274bf7c3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Folks Here is something to make us all think Jack --part1_b0.c854ac8.274bf7c3_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <[email protected].com> Received: from rly-xd02.mx.aol.com (rly-xd02.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.167]) by air-xd03.mail.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:14:22 -0500 Received: from jj.egroups.com (jj.egroups.com [208.50.144.82]) by rly-xd02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:13:52 1900 X-eGroups-Return: [email protected].com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by jj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Nov 2000 21:12:07 -0000 X-Sender: [email protected] X-Apparently-To: [email protected] Received: (EGP: mail-6_2_1); 20 Nov 2000 21:12:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 72038 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2000 21:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Nov 2000 21:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp6.mindspring.com) (207.69.200.110) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Nov 2000 22:13:07 -0000 Received: from default (user-38lc0io.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.2.88]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA11665 for <[email protected]>; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:11:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 From: "dustbunny" <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list [email protected]; contact [email protected] Delivered-To: mailing list [email protected] Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:[email protected]> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 13:12:20 -0800 Reply-To: [email protected] Subject: [germanfriends] Crisis of Letters in Germany Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spelling reforms have touched off an angry debate and have left the public, students and teachers confused Jody K. Biehl San Francisco Chronicle Berlin -- German trains may run with uncanny precision, but ask any person standing on the tracks how to spell the word for ``train travel'' and you might be greeted with a gaze of pure Teutonic panic. Indeed, this meticulous nation of 83 million inhabitants has not suddenly forgotten how to spell. But the entire country -- and the German-speaking nations of Austria and Switzerland -- are gripped in a seething debate about the future of their language. The debate focuses on an international attempt to make German easier by eliminating 100 spelling rules, including those that permit famously long compound words like Feierabendverkehr (rush-hour traffic) and Rettungschwimmeruebungsplatz (lifeguard training area). The reforms also reduce the number of rules for commas, from an astonishing 52 to nine and replace Americanized spellings for words like ``ketchup'' and ``disco'' with the Germanized Ketschup and Disko. ``It is absolute lunacy,'' said Thomas Steinfeld, chief literary critic for the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, a staunchly conservative newspaper. ``Can you imagine telling generations of people -- let alone writers, historians and other academics -- that the way they learned to spell is wrong? It is a linguistic nightmare.'' Examples of the new grammar are as complicated as the old rules are long. In general, they break up compound words into various parts, so Zugfahren (to ride a train) becomes Zug fahren. Steinfeld insists such shifts alter the meaning of many words. A good comparison, he said, would be to take the English word undercover and break it into under cover. ``You end up not knowing if the person is a spy or if they are going to bed,'' he said. ``You want to ask under cover of what, a blanket?'' In some cases, critics say the new rules push otherwise separated words together, resulting in an awkward situation of having three consonants in a row, as in Shifffahrt, the word for navigation. Language reform is based on a 1960s notion that the way people write German is an automatic clue to their social status. In theory, class barriers disappear by simplifying the language. The new spelling, which took effect in 1998 in schools, government offices and courts of law, has resulted in orthographic chaos in the usually placid world of German publishing. According to Steinfeld, every dictionary published since 1998 is different because publishers are also struggling to understand the new rules and explain away the old ones. Moreover, teachers complain that publishers of classic books often don't adhere to the new rules, leaving students confused and unsure of spelling and grammar. ``Instead of being more modern, we are reverting back to the 19th century where there were no standard rules of spelling and every publishing house was free to make up its own style,'' Steinfeld said. The changes are happening at a time when many Germans are suffering from what the media describes as ``reform fatigue.'' In recent months, they have seen sweeping changes hit their tax system and have watched in horror as legislators threaten to do away with cushy pensions that have been a popular perk of the West German system since the 1950s. Health insurance and commercial laws are also under scrutiny as Germany struggles to find its way in the global economy. But fine-tuning the language, it seems, is one step many Germans are not willing to make in the name of modernity. ``We have tried the language reform for the past two years and I think we have to come to the conclusion that people don't want it,'' said Ulrike Flach, chairman of the education committee in the German parliament. ``I think we should stop it now.'' But that is not likely to happen any time soon. Since the reforms were agreed upon in 1996 by the cultural ministers of Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Liechtenstein, the German government has spent more than $200 million to rewrite school textbooks and official brochures. More significantly, several cultural ministers would have to admit that they were wrong. In recent months, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung has enraged government officials by branding the reforms ``ridiculous'' and ``a total failure.'' In a much-read editorial, the newspaper, which still uses 19th century typeface and refuses to publish photos on its front page, announced that it had abandoned the new rules in favor of classic, rule-bound German. Leading literary figures, including Nobel laureate Guenter Grass and the conservative Academy of Language and Literature, have rallied around the newspaper, creating a bizarre alliance between political foes. Grass, a leftist who has long refused to be interviewed by Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung reporters, has quipped that he would happily allow the newspaper to ``continue publishing nonsense about me as long as it is written according to the old rules.'' In response, Education Minister Klaus Boeger says the anti-reform campaign will have no effect. ``We are not in the habit of revoking decisions of the Cultural Ministers' Conference merely because an important newspaper returns to the old spelling rules,'' he said. ********************************************************************** MESSAGES CAN BE IN GERMAN AND ENGLISH ON THIS LIST. <http://www.egroups.com/group/germanfriends/info.html> ********************************************************************** To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: [email protected] Visit the German Corner: http://www.germancorner.com ********************************************************************** --part1_b0.c854ac8.274bf7c3_boundary--

Hello Everyone, I'm kind of new to the list. My family name is German based. It was, like many, changed through the years. And I would like to learn more about my German heritage. Would anyone like to share to the list any German holiday traditions? I'm sure there are many different ways to celebrate the holidays. Thank you, Mark Overlock Winter Park, Florida

Hi, list, Back to German stuff, okay? I wonder if there is/was such a thing as newspaper obituaries in Germany?? I have a couple ancestorial cousins who died in the 1920's & 1930's in Germany--in the former E. part, between Magdeburg and Stendal. Here in the U.S., one should be able, with luck, to find newsy obituaries on someone who died in this time period. Would this also be the case in Germany? If so, could anyone suggest how I would go about getting these obituaries? Thanks for any help. Judy

Yes, Stan, I agree on the mispronunciation of "shard." And just look at how sadly the English language is treated here on the web !! Dave Ross

"Stanley A. Wickman" wrote: > > > BTW, the word being pronounced "shad" or "chad," is "shard (Scherbe)." > In my Merriam-Webster 7th edition, shard is defined as a piece or > fragment of a brittle (sproede) substance, broadly: a small piece (klein > Stueck). > One more note. To me, the mispronunciation being repeated by nearly everyone who discusses the subject demonstrates a certain lack of erudition on the part of the incumbents of positions in which WORDS are the stock in trade! The probable source for this ridiculous circumstance is a person from the southern United States who knew the correct word, knew its meaning, and had no idea that the sound of his/her CORRECT pronunciation sounded so far from the usual. As a matter of fact, to my ears, the accent of New Englanders could have produced a similar misapprehension. I am unhappy because these elements of current daily life in the USA are not part of my American Dream. Stan from Livonia, MI

Amen to that. (Ancestors turning over in their graves). One question I have concerning German life is when the people were living in that area classified as Alsace Lorraine and the borders kept changing, did everyone have to change the country of birth they listed on their applications for naturalization. What if it was France when they were born and then Germany when they left? Just wondering how the general population dealt with all the government change. Thanks. Jerilyn Jerilyn Lappin Koskan Cook Co., Illinois [email protected] FTM user BREWER-Daniel Belmont, OH, Northumberland, Indiana and Jefferson, PA DAVIS/DAVIDSON-Marium/Mary b1803 Bucks, PA Mother Rachel Greene DUSATKO-Barbara, Anton late 1800s Butler, NE DYE-William, David, Daniel in Monroe, OH early 1800s. FISHER-Joseph, b abt 1805 OH, last Morgan, OH 1850. Wife Judith Lappin. Children John, Knight, Elizabeth, Thomas, Hannah, Mary, Rachel, Ruth GRAY-Ogden b 1850 Morgan, OH, d Fulton, IL. Children - Ogden, Lafayette, Mary A., Cornelius, Elizabeth, Rachel GREENE-Rachel, b abt 1770, Bucks, PA HANNA-Archibald, d 1793 Westmoreland, PA Children Hugh, William, Hannah, Mary (wed Robert Williams) KIRK-Elizabeth, Quaker, daughter Joseph Kirk/Judith Knight, wed Robert Lappin abt 1790. Chester & Fayette, PA Belmont, OH KOSKAN-Vaclav, b 1850s Czechoslovakia d Butler, NE LAPPIN-PA and OH late 1700s/1800s LEAK/LEEK-MD & Eastern, OH in late 1700s and 1800s MITCHELL-Thomas Mitchell, b 1770s Greene, PA -d Monroe, OH. Daughter Maria wed William Dye. MONROE-Nicholas Monroe, b PA, died Belmont, OH early 1850s. Children Curtis, William, John, Samuel, Mary (Hendershot), Eleanor (Maring), Rebecca (Murphy), Miller, George, Richard. MONTGOMERY-Daniel, d 1842 Vinton, OH Family to Wayne, IL Wife Alice Lappin, Children William, Mariah, John, Elizabeth, Rachel, Letticia, Ruth, Euphemia OATES-Sarah Elizabeth born Lewis, WV, adopted Samuel McCluster - to Decatur, KS Parents supposedly Elizabeth Puffenbarger/Benjamin Oates SLUSHER-Frederick, b PA, lived Monroe, OH, d Wayne, IL SMITH-Aaron 1755/Anna Foster Bucks, PA Children John, Amos, Hannah, Samuel, Charles, Mary STARBUCKS-John and Ann Lappin of Belmont, OH STARKEY - b 1810 PA, wed Belmont, OH TODD - Wm. & Rachel Lappin, d late 1800s Morgan, OH WADSWORTH-Alcinda, Martha, Wm., Rachel, Emily, Ruth b Belmont, OH

"Larry Flinner, Jr." wrote: > > Hmmm. (deep in thought) Now what was that again? Oh Yeah: > German life having such a strong, positive impact on American ideals, work ethics, and citizenship, it's probably not inappropriate to note here that those who complain about the ballots had whatever opportunity was necessary to prepare themselves to vote. The presidential campaign ran for nearly a year pointing at the day in November for casting ballots. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Why is it, now, always the other guy's fault? Counting hundreds of thousands of ballots results in error, period. Recounting should be available, but not on the grounds that a voter reports that he voted for "A," but he wanted to vote for "B." They don't allow recounts to lottery customers. The voting machines have been used for more than thirty years! The voters who appear to have been used to trump up this fiasco probably used the ballot in at least one previous election (more, if they are politically activist enough to be drawn into the scheme). BTW, the word being pronounced "shad" or "chad," is "shard (Scherbe)." In my Merriam-Webster 7th edition, shard is defined as a piece or fragment of a brittle (sproede) substance, broadly: a small piece (klein Stueck). Stan from Livonia, MI

Me too [email protected] wrote: > Heinz -- > > I thought it was funny!! Lighten up, folks! > > Regards, > Jayne

Hey, Larry: Very good, but "close" also counts in H-BOMBS !! Dave Ross

Angie, If it had not been for all of the courageous Brits, French and American soldiers working TOGETHER in WWII you might also be speaking German now. Klaus Dieter Cook, Houston, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Reply to British Revocation Announcement > Hello, > > At first I did not understand what this conversation had to do with German > Life. But now I think I get the connection. It must be all those AMERICANS > who risked their lives in W.W.II or else you "obedient servants of Her > Majesty" would know a whole lot more about German Life. > > I am sorely disappointed in this conversation and the fact that it was > allowed. Isn't this the same list that spent well over a month in a > discussion that strove to break the stereotypes of Germans? > > Please understand that the current state of affairs deeply concern many > Americans. We are fighting for our very foundation. Making fun right now is > down right rude. > > Angie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 11:10 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Reply to British Revocation Announcement > > > > In a message dated 17/11/00 21:11:40 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] > writes: > > Our considered replies > > << Since receiving the royal announcement, I have a few questions to as > the > > new > > goverment. > > 1. Must we salute the queen with all our fingers displayed or can we be > > selective? > > One does NOT salute the Queen (Note the capital Q) unless one is a member > of > > the armed forces when a regulation salute, made with the cap on you will > > note, never as is done in the United States sometimes in a hatless > condition. > > If one is male the correct thing to do is bow, if female, a curtsey is > > appropriate. Tuition will be given. > > 2. How many East Indian doctors will manage our clinics for public health > > care? > > About as many as appear to be employed in similar establishments in > America > > except that in the U.K. they are Indian or Pakistani. > > 3. Must we relearn how to cook bacon? > > We will allow you to retain your culinary skills, such as they are. > > 4. How can I get a seat in the house of commons and who will count the > > ballots? > > US citizens will not be eligible for a seat in the House of Commons (Note > the > > capital letters) until candidates can refrain from the overheated frenzy > of > > elections that appear to be the norm up to this time. Placards, balloons > and > > funny hats will not be countenanced. Neither will donations of more than a > > modest sum of money be allowed. Vote counting will be carried out by an > > official called the "Returning Officer" The voting issues will be simple, > > provided that the voter is able to read and write. > > A simple piece of paper bearing the names of all the candidates and their > > political party will be handed to the voter at the Polling Station. This > will > > only be provided after his or name has been checked on the register of > > voters. A X at the side of the name of the candidate of your choice is all > > that is required. There will be no other position than the vacancy for a > > Member of Parliament. Papers will not list vacancies for petty local > > officials. > > 5. Who will be crazy enough to direct traffic the first day we switch to > > driving on the left side of the roads? > > We suggest that it would help to slim down the local police force if they > > were to perform this duty. They could then be slightly prouder of the > garish > > badges that appear to be the present fashion. > > 6. Are we permitted to throw bombs on Guy Faulk's day? > > One should first learn how to spell the name which is Guy Fawkes. To throw > a > > bomb would not be emulating this person. Mr. Fawkes did not throw anything > > anywhere. He deposited barrels of gunpowder under the Houses of > Parliament. > > Caught and executed, you might remember that. > > 7. Do we get tax credit for wasting all those previous dollars on English > > sport cars? > > Do you mean precious or previous? Certainly you may claim if you have a > > legitimate and provable case. Bear in mind though that any claim may be > set > > against a certain model of unstable car called a "Discovery" and for > > cleansing the streets of the United Kingdom of discarded containers and > > wrappers from what are euphemistically called "fast food outlets" > > Dictated by and signed by > > John Bull > > Her Majesty's obedient servant > > Published in the Bradmore Gazette > > This 17th day of November in the year of Our Lord, Two Thousand > > > > > > >

There is a nice site all about German news, culture, history, cooking, etc. at www.Germanybynet.com . It's in English, has webcams, and links to other German sites. Dorie

On 20 Nov 2000, at 23:43, mtwitch wrote: > People people we need to lighten up. I live in Florida and everyday > someone sends me something re: the voting. If i took offense at them, > i would be mad all day. Humor is great for all our ailments including > ballot marking. We must keep remembering that we can make jokes, etc. > and not have to worry about possible tanks and soldiers riding in for > some kind of revolution. USA will survive whatever ..... and i bet > we all learned a new word ... like who knew what a chad was????? > > As a fairly new Floridian I must say that it is a bit embarrassing though. There is no honor. That is sad for our whole country. Someone asked me if we're changing our license plates from an orange to a pregnant dimple and call our state Flori-duh. When people can't follow the directions which 2nd and 3rd graders pass with flying colors and even admit this in public, things are pretty bad. Do we laugh or cry? I've also received the cover page of a new book of the Dummies series: 'Voting for Dummies' by Richard Dalley. All this does not do our state or country much good. 15% of our capital market is controlled by non-Americans. The market has tanked. These people wonder if they have their money in the right place with so many idiots running around. Many billions have been lost by our voters who own stock in the last two weeks. And all this because one man can't admit he lost. Fred 4788 Corian Court Naples, FL 34114 941-775-7838 [email protected] Florida Law - count dimples but not military votes

People people we need to lighten up. I live in Florida and everyday someone sends me something re: the voting. If i took offense at them, i would be mad all day. Humor is great for all our ailments including ballot marking. We must keep remembering that we can make jokes, etc. and not have to worry about possible tanks and soldiers riding in for some kind of revolution. USA will survive whatever ..... and i bet we all learned a new word ... like who knew what a chad was?????

Hmmm. (deep in thought) Now what was that again? Oh Yeah: 1) Take the cardy thingy and put it in the slotty thingy, aligning the holey thingies with the peggy thingies. 2) Use the pokey thingy to make a holey thingy in the cardy thingy next to the presidential candidatie thingy of my choicey thingy. 3) Count the holey thingies. 4) The one with the most holey thingies wins. Now we have to wonder about denty, scratchy, and other types of thingies. It seems that these would be near misses, which (I have been told) only count in horse schoes and hand grenades. Now, what was that again? ---- Larry

Isn't it time to find a subject that we are all interested in? Americans/Germans, life and cultures!!! Please, I was always told the two things never to argue was politics and religion so I am not voicing any opinions but let us now move away from the political topic and move on. Tschüß, Wishing all a "Happy Thanksgiving" Gail Meyer Kilgore List Administrator Casa Grande, Arizona