As a newbie to the List, is there an archive? Margaret >Hi, >I wrote down last year some of the Christmas Holiday Tradition and Heritage. >If some one like to read them again. I will post them again or you have to >check the archive. >Katharina >[email protected] >> >>Hello Everyone, >> >>I'm kind of new to the list. My family name is German based. It was, like >>many, changed through the years. And I would like to learn more about my >>German heritage. Would anyone like to share to the list any German holiday >>traditions? I'm sure there are many different ways to celebrate the >>holidays. >> >>Thank you, >> >>Mark Overlock >>Winter Park, Florida >> >> >> > >___________________________________________________________________________ __________ >Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > >

Hip, Hip Hurray ! for Judy !Lets move along. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: 21 November, 2000 6:59 PM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] Chads???---GADS!! >Good grief, kids, >What difference does it make what a chad is, and what does it have to do with >German genealogy and customs? Didn't the list supervisor ask us to let this >go, a couple of lists back? And, on this list I just received, 6 of the 13 >subjects were about Chads, and one still about the British thing from the >election. Please, guys. You're ruining the list. Why not E-mail privately >to the person who disagrees with you what a chad is, and other ridiculous >trivial stuff like that, that has nothing to do with Germany? Just my 2 >cents worth, Judy >

Good grief, kids, What difference does it make what a chad is, and what does it have to do with German genealogy and customs? Didn't the list supervisor ask us to let this go, a couple of lists back? And, on this list I just received, 6 of the 13 subjects were about Chads, and one still about the British thing from the election. Please, guys. You're ruining the list. Why not E-mail privately to the person who disagrees with you what a chad is, and other ridiculous trivial stuff like that, that has nothing to do with Germany? Just my 2 cents worth, Judy

Gail, you need "candle holders" (they are clipped to the limbs). Can't you buy them online? _________________________ Heinz L. Zulauf Flotowstrasse 9 D-64287 Darmstadt Germany e-mail: [email protected] Visit my Private Homepage "The Classical Music Site" http://myweb.vector.ch/zulauf _________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail Meyer Kilgore" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Holiday Traditions & Heritage > Katharina, I want to know what the small candles are set on so that they can > be attached to the Christmas tree. I know my grandmother just didn't set a > candle on a branch and I was in a German shop the other day and they had the > candles but that was all. > > Gail >

I think it would be a great tragedy if the German language did not include words like Rettungschwimmeruebungsplatz. Words like that just crack me up. Is there a Guiness record for the world's longest word? What is the longest word you know in the German language? They don't mention the most important reform they need, hoping not to offend any Germans or Germanophiles, but what is the reasoning for having five different ways to say the word 'the' or alternatively 'a' ? Isn't that a major stumbling block for anybody trying to learn German? Is that part of the proposed reforms? I wish there was some way to reform the language. I took issue with a dictionary editor who said that his dictionary only recorded the way a word actually was used, and not somebody's idea of 'correct' usage. So if enough people start using a word wrong, giving it a new or contradictory meaning, then that becomes correct. Thus has the word 'snuck' sneaked it's way into proper usage. I wonder why 'ain't' hasn't as well. Well, it is easy for me to get off topic, since I know much more about America than I do about Germany. Not too long ago there was a campaign to change "Smokey the Bear" to "Smokey Bear". This has probably been accomplished through advertising and schools. So now young people can laugh at my old-fashioned way of talking when I say Smokey THE Bear. Just thought I would make the point, that they will acheive their reforms, the way most change is acheived, by teaching the young the new ways and waiting for all the people who use the old ways to die off. Thomas Koch ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 10:07 AM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] Fwd: Crisis of Letters in Germany > > Spelling reforms have touched off an angry debate and have left the public, > students and teachers confused > > Jody K. Biehl San Francisco Chronicle > > Berlin -- German trains may run with uncanny precision, but ask any person > standing on the tracks how to spell the word for ``train travel'' and you > might be greeted with a gaze of pure Teutonic panic. > > Indeed, this meticulous nation of 83 million inhabitants has not suddenly > forgotten how to spell. But the entire country -- and the German-speaking > nations of Austria and Switzerland -- are gripped in a seething debate about > the future of their language. > > The debate focuses on an international attempt to make German easier by > eliminating 100 spelling rules, including those that permit famously long > compound words like Feierabendverkehr (rush-hour traffic) and > Rettungschwimmeruebungsplatz (lifeguard training area). The reforms also > reduce the number of rules for commas, from an astonishing 52 to nine and > replace Americanized spellings for words like ``ketchup'' and ``disco'' with > the Germanized Ketschup and Disko. > > ``It is absolute lunacy,'' said Thomas Steinfeld, chief literary critic for > the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, a staunchly conservative newspaper. > ``Can you imagine telling generations of people -- let alone writers, > historians and other academics -- that the way they learned to spell is > wrong? It is a linguistic nightmare.'' > > Examples of the new grammar are as complicated as the old rules are long. In > general, they break up compound words into various parts, so Zugfahren (to > ride a train) becomes Zug fahren. > > Steinfeld insists such shifts alter the meaning of many words. A good > comparison, he said, would be to take the English word undercover and break > it into under cover. > > ``You end up not knowing if the person is a spy or if they are going to > bed,'' he said. ``You want to ask under cover of what, a blanket?'' > > In some cases, critics say the new rules push otherwise separated words > together, resulting in an awkward situation of having three consonants in a > row, as in Shifffahrt, the word for navigation. > > Language reform is based on a 1960s notion that the way people write German > is an automatic clue to their social status. In theory, class barriers > disappear by simplifying the language. > > The new spelling, which took effect in 1998 in schools, government offices > and courts of law, has resulted in orthographic chaos in the usually placid > world of German publishing. According to Steinfeld, every dictionary > published since 1998 is different because publishers are also struggling to > understand the new rules and explain away the old ones. > > Moreover, teachers complain that publishers of classic books often don't > adhere to the new rules, leaving students confused and unsure of spelling > and grammar. > > ``Instead of being more modern, we are reverting back to the 19th century > where there were no standard rules of spelling and every publishing house > was free to make up its own style,'' Steinfeld said. > > The changes are happening at a time when many Germans are suffering from > what the media describes as ``reform fatigue.'' In recent months, they have > seen sweeping changes hit their tax system and have watched in horror as > legislators threaten to do away with cushy pensions that have been a popular > perk of the West German system since the 1950s. Health insurance and > commercial laws are also under scrutiny as Germany struggles to find its way > in the global economy. > > But fine-tuning the language, it seems, is one step many Germans are not > willing to make in the name of modernity. > > ``We have tried the language reform for the past two years and I think we > have to come to the conclusion that people don't want it,'' said Ulrike > Flach, chairman of the education committee in the German parliament. ``I > think we should stop it now.'' > > But that is not likely to happen any time soon. > > Since the reforms were agreed upon in 1996 by the cultural ministers of > Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Liechtenstein, the German government has > spent more than $200 million to rewrite school textbooks and official > brochures. More significantly, several cultural ministers would have to > admit that they were wrong. > > In recent months, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung has enraged government > officials by branding the reforms ``ridiculous'' and ``a total failure.'' In > a much-read editorial, the newspaper, which still uses 19th century typeface > and refuses to publish photos on its front page, announced that it had > abandoned the new rules in favor of classic, rule-bound German. > > Leading literary figures, including Nobel laureate Guenter Grass and the > conservative Academy of Language and Literature, have rallied around the > newspaper, creating a bizarre alliance between political foes. Grass, a > leftist who has long refused to be interviewed by Frankfurter Allgemeine > Zeitung reporters, has quipped that he would happily allow the newspaper to > ``continue publishing nonsense about me as long as it is written according > to the old rules.'' > > In response, Education Minister Klaus Boeger says the anti-reform campaign > will have no effect. ``We are not in the habit of revoking decisions of the > Cultural Ministers' Conference merely because an important newspaper returns > to the old spelling rules,'' he said. > > > > ********************************************************************** > MESSAGES CAN BE IN GERMAN AND ENGLISH ON THIS LIST. > <http://www.egroups.com/group/germanfriends/info.html> > ********************************************************************** > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: [email protected] > Visit the German Corner: http://www.germancorner.com > ********************************************************************** > > > --part1_b0.c854ac8.274bf7c3_boundary--

Hi Gail, They are snap on holders. I bought my in Germany. Give me a few days. I saw them some where on the net. I will look for them. Katharina > >Katharina, I want to know what the small candles are set on so that they >can >be attached to the Christmas tree. I know my grandmother just didn't set a >candle on a branch and I was in a German shop the other day and they had >the >candles but that was all. > >Gail > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Hi Judy, Gail is right. Mostly on a German Obituary is the persons, name how old the person was and when the service is. We are a little bit spoiled with the Obituaries here in the States. There are a piece of history for each person. You have to pay for every word you write in an Obituary. So an Obituary would become very expensive. That is they they are real short. Here they are a service of the Funeral home to post an Obituary. Katharina > >Judy, I don't know if I am much help but what I have is the announcement >in >the paper of the person's death. It was an article outlined in black but >mine only listed the wife and her maiden name but none of the children etc. >The family never received a obit as we see them today so I don't know if >there was more published. > >Gail > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Katharina, I think you should post the Christmas traditions again that you wrote last year. I so much enjoy reading every thing you have say. This is a great list. Ruth Ann

Hi, I wrote down last year some of the Christmas Holiday Tradition and Heritage. If some one like to read them again. I will post them again or you have to check the archive. Katharina [email protected] > >Hello Everyone, > >I'm kind of new to the list. My family name is German based. It was, like >many, changed through the years. And I would like to learn more about my >German heritage. Would anyone like to share to the list any German holiday >traditions? I'm sure there are many different ways to celebrate the >holidays. > >Thank you, > >Mark Overlock >Winter Park, Florida > > > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Alan Bauerschmidt wrote: > > Chad is a perfectly fine American term. It is in Webster's Ninth and Random > House Second Editions. The latter indicates its origin as a computer term > in the 1945-1950 period. > > Shard, or sherd, or the German Scherbe is not synonomous As things shape up, you are correct, of course. Since the word did not exist apparently before the Hollerith card, where do you suppose the first user went for inspiration to coin this new and useful term? Thanks for your gentle reproach. Stan from Livonia, MI

Daniel Reinhold wrote: > > A shard is NOT a chad. A chad is: > chad > > chad (chad) noun > The paper removed when a hole is punched in a card, in a tape, or at the > perforated edge of continuous-form paper—the computer equivalent of a > doughnut hole. > Shake any family tree and a few nuts will fall. From among my brethren resting here under the old chestnut tree, permit me to say, "I cannot refute the rectitude of your retort." Merriam-Webster's 10th indicates that the word "chad" came into being in 1947 of uncertain origin. The only claim I have to thoughtfulness now is that, since "shard" predates that, the word was not "coined" but is a corruption of the spelling based on the accent of the New Englander or Alabaman who pronounced the word "shard" for his Michiganian secretary to spell. If the word was not in her vocabulary, what was she to do? But I am in my conjectural state again. Pay me no mind. Stan from Livonia, MI

Hi All From what I recall about "chad" is that it was a term used for those little circles coming off the paper tape used in the old teletype machines .... resulting from when the machine punched the codes in/on the paper tape We used to iniate the "nugs" (new guys) in the comm center by having them do a chad count at the shifts end Dick S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Bauerschmidt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 12:33 Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] Chad and Shard > Chad is a perfectly fine American term. It is in Webster's Ninth and Random > House Second Editions. The latter indicates its origin as a computer term > in the 1945-1950 period. >

Chad is a perfectly fine American term. It is in Webster's Ninth and Random House Second Editions. The latter indicates its origin as a computer term in the 1945-1950 period. Shard, or sherd, or the German Scherbe is not synonomous and is correctly use in terms of a fragment that results from a shattering. A punch card is punched with some form of stylus and not shattered. At the height of the punch card era it was the bane of researchers -- I had not heard the term used over the past 10 years. It is a shame that an archaic technology is still employed for something as important as an election. The error rate is on the order of 33 out of 1000, because of the chad problem. As I remember a card punch machine used by a researcher would be passed through a verifyer -- to have two humans make critical entrys, but the chad problem still created an unacceptable error rate for critical analysis. Many of the German terms used in the world of computers have been adapted from the English, so I doubt that Germans would use the inappropriate term, Scherbe. Do we have a German listening in who worked with computers in the 1944-1980 period?

A shard is NOT a chad. A chad is: chad chad (chad) noun The paper removed when a hole is punched in a card, in a tape, or at the perforated edge of continuous-form paper—the computer equivalent of a doughnut hole. A shard is: shard shard [shaard] (plural shards) or sherd [shurd] (plural sherds) noun 1. broken piece of glass: a sharp broken piece of glass or metal 2. ARCHAEOLOGY See potsherd 3. ZOOLOGY scale or shell: an animal’s scales, shell, or other tough outer covering 4. INSECTS beetle’s outer wing: the outer wing covering of a beetle [Old English sceard “cut, notch.” Ultimately from an Indo-European word meaning “to cut,” which is also the ancestor of English shear, scar, score, and short .] Dan Daniel Gensemer REINHOLD III Clinton Computer Consultants RR 4 Box 45 Mill Hall, PA 17751-9622 Voice phone (570) 748-3201 Internet [email protected] Founder of The Millbrook Playhouse. Go to: http://www.millbrookplayhouse.com/ Reinhold Genealogy Homepage - http://cub.kcnet.org/~dreinhol/index.html Genealogical Surname Searching: REINHOLD, Lancaster County. PA, 1752 - now also variants REINOEL, REINHOLT, REINHOLDT, REINWALD AMWEG, WENGER, WALTER, GENSEMER, Lancaster County, PA, 1700s MUSSER, GLISSEN, - SE PA. 1840 - now MACK, MOCK,- NE PA, 1880 - now Shake any family tree and a few nuts will fall.

Gail: What we have (and don't use; see other e-mail on here) are floral-shaped metal pieces that have spring clips on them. I don't know if Carol's grandparents had these from Germany or got them in this country. In 1959, at our landlords' for Christmas, there were candles on the tree, but I don't recollect how they were attached. Dave Ross Denver

[email protected] wrote: > > Yes, Stan, I agree on the mispronunciation of "shard." Thanks also to you. I was forced to look to my laurels because I failed to refer to a more up-to-date edition of my dictionary. However, I maintain my view that "chad" is a corruption of "shard" brought about by the inadequate ear of someone who was able to set it in a place where it attracted the attention of the lexicographers. Small satisfaction in that, however. Thanks again. Stan from Livonia, MI

My wife is pure German, though both parents were born in this country, some grandparents, too. I have a few German lines in me. We're mostly German in bent around our home. Some of our "Americanized" German traditions at "holidaze" are: 1) Someone always gets the "Stueck mit eines roten Band" (stick/twig with a bit of red ribbon tied around it; we understand that's sort of equivalent to coal in the stocking) in their Christmas stocking; 2) Our main tree is loaded with German ornaments, most of them from the Erzgebirge region. The small tree in the antique room is trimmed entirely with the antique ornaments and animals from Carol's grandmother (we have candle holders for the tree, from Carol's old family, but we don't use them, for obvious reasons). 3) Carol always bakes at least one Stollen (we have to diet almost constantly, so we don't have a lot of baked goods about), and we enjoy it over the season; 4) We cook a lot of German-style food at the holidays: favorites include Koenigsberger Klops, lots of Spaetzle, Rouladen, Rothkohl mit Apfeln, Apfelmuss, Kartoffelpuffer, Schitzeln (various ways, one favorite being a Cordon Bleu style), and good Moselwein we bring from Carol's cousin's Weingut on the Mosel River in Burgehn a/d Mosel (we always have plenty on hand and drink it on special occasions); 5) Of course, lots of German Christmas music (or other kinds too, for that;matter) on the stereo; 6) I think, in honor of what was very important to our ancestors, we mainly observe the tradition of giving thanks for Jesus. Religion played such an important role in our ancestors' families, and it does in ours too. No, we're not religious fanatics, just wholeheartedly in favor of Him. There are a few of the things we do around here that have a German flavor. Our daughter is wed to a German, and they live permanently in Germany. Christmas with them is a REAL German Christmas (byut the weather is usually crummy). Dave Ross Denver

Hi, Judy, This is an unofficial answer to your question from an American. From my research experience, when someone died, a notice was put in the paper listing the deceased's name, and the place and time of any arrangements, with friends and acquaintances invited to attend. Survivors' names might be listed. The announcement usually had a black border. The announcement did not appear like an obituary does in the USA. The announcement was possibly closer to what one would call an ad in this country, and might have been 2-3 columns wide, and rather deep. I would venture to guess that to find these one would have to find and go through microfilmed newspapers (the issue following the deceased's death). Margaret

[email protected] wrote: > > > Hello Folks > Here is something to make us all think > > Jack > There once was a mindset that there was a limited vocabulary of English words. Declensions were fixed. Spellings were fixed. No further improvement nor enlargement nor diminution was to be tolerated. The dictionary was the repository of the language. If it isn't in the dictionary, it's wrong. Time has proven that no such edict is enforceable. The publishers soon advertised that they were not the managers of the language, only the reporters of the current state of affairs. Not much happened to communication as a result of this upheaval. There are a great many more people now. That means there is a greater opportunity for individuals to be inexperienced with words to the point of coining new. But there doesn't seem to be any adverse effect as a result, except in special cases where someone, trying to be something he isn't, is talking to someone who is unpretentious. One other possibly adverse effect is the stupefaction of gentle people by the spin doctors who have become so expert in ambiguity as to be able to deliver themselves of bombastic tirades that conceal more than they reveal. But, all in all, the people succeed in achieving some happiness without a rigid rule of language. Stan from Livonia, MI

In a message dated 11/21/00 11:09:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: << [email protected] >> Yes there are Newspaper Obituaries as well as those sent through the mail to friends and aquaintances, having a black border around the envelope. I saved quite a few of them and they came in handy for genealogy purposes. The following URL lists many German Newspapers, perhaps you can pick the one near your research region and check with their archives for obituaries. http://www.bdzv.de/online/zeitung.htm Regards Ingrid IGF