Think back to your High School Latin: declension of nouns, conjugation of verbs. Remember the amusement of young Latin students who learn that "farmer" -- agricula -- is feminine. And the infamous "amo, amas, amat". Certainly anyone who has studied Russian is aware that it has more cases than German. And remember the agreement of adjectives and nouns in Spanish. If you know where, and how, to look you can still see remnants in English. It is nothing unique. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Koch <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Language > The intended question is before the one you answered. The question >being if there is some set of rules so that you can look at a noun such as >Baum, and know through those rules whether it should be das Baum, der Baum, >or die Baum. You might guess that since trees do not have sexes that it >would be das Baum, but my dictionary says it should be der Baum. Streets >don't have sex either and yet it is die Strasse. One rule I seem to remember >is that words ending in the letter 'e' were usually 'die'. (Okay I quickly >found an exception 'der bube' - the boy, but every rule must have an >exception or two). As far as I learned in my four years of high school >German, there is no pattern, but every German child or anybody else learning >German must not only remember the German names for things, but also whether >the new word goes with 'der,die, or das', and then depending on the case, >this can be changed to 'den, or dem' or if you are saying 'an' object >instead of 'the' object there are five or six different ways to say the >English word 'a'. > That all seems to be alot of extra work which adds nothing to the ideas >being communicated. Perhaps it is a common feature in many languages, or is >there some reason for the German language to do that? > Speaking of German and changes. The Swiss immigrants to Sauk County, >Wisconsin quickly built churches, and of course the services were held in >German. Eventually, the younger English speaking generation and perhaps some >non-German new neighbors, demanded a change to English speaking services. >One of the older members was heard to remark: "I suppose God Himself will >have to learn English." > >Thomas Koch > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Katharina Hines <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:49 PM >Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Language > > >> Hi Judy, >> That is determined by the word in front of the word 'door' >> These are the words der - male >> die - female >> das - child >> die - is also used in the plural form as for >> more then one. >> Katharina >> >> >I am sure this has probably been talked about before, but I have never >> >understood, and hope someone can explain to me. How to you determine the >> >sex >> >of inanimate objects, for the German language. How is it determined if a >> >door, or chair, for instance, is male or female? There must be some >> >reasoning to it, or is this just learned by speaking German as a child, >and >> >passed up? Thanks for any help. Judy >> > >> >> >___________________________________________________________________________ _ >_________ >> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : >http://explorer.msn.com >> > >______________________________

Thanks, Thomas, You percieved my question correctly--that is what I wanted to know. And, Thanks for your explanation, which sort of lets me know that there really isn't much of a way. LOL Ah, well, I do love my mother's mother country, and wish I could learn German. I waited too long, so that my memory is spotty, so that after I memorize a word, I forget it before I figure out what the next word should be. LOL Love this list. Judy In a message dated 11/23/00 2:56:06 PM, you wrote: << > The intended question is before the one you answered. The question > being if there is some set of rules so that you can look at a noun such as > Baum, and know through those rules whether it should be das Baum, der Baum, > or die Baum. >>

Proclamation of Thanksgiving 1863 By President Abraham Lincoln "The year that is drawing toward its close has been filled with the blessings of fruitful years and healthful skies... no human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently, and gratefully acknowledged, as with one heart and one voice, by the whole American people. I do therefore invite my fellow-citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe. a day of Thanksgiving and praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. and [to] fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and restore it, as soon as may be consistent with the Divine Purposes, to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility, and union." I'm happy to be able to say thanks to my almighty God.

In a message dated 11/22/00 5:26:53 PM Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > Ginger: does the herring eat much of the potato salad? > > Now that was funny, Dave! Ginger, pickled herring in German potato salad? Tell us more. AJ

Read and laugh! A wonderful look at "The Awful German Language" by American humorist Mark Twain. http://www.bdsnett.no/klaus/twain/#1.%20THE%20AWFUL%20GERMAN%20LANGUAG Theola

Depends how fast you are with the fork. <g> Ginger [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Christmas traditions > Ginger: does the herring eat much of the potato salad? > > Dave Ross >

<<How is it determined if a door, or chair, for instance, is male or female?>> A door has no sex! <vbg>. Seriously: You cannot determine whether an inanimate thing is male or female. You just have to learn it. Horrible language. (die Sonne, der Mond = the sun, the moon) _________________________ Heinz L. Zulauf Flotowstrasse 9 D-64287 Darmstadt Germany e-mail: [email protected] Visit my Private Homepage "The Classical Music Site" http://myweb.vector.ch/zulauf _________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 1:44 PM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] Language > I am sure this has probably been talked about before, but I have never > understood, and hope someone can explain to me. How to you determine the sex > of inanimate objects, for the German language. How is it determined if a > door, or chair, for instance, is male or female? There must be some > reasoning to it, or is this just learned by speaking German as a child, and > passed up? Thanks for any help. Judy >

<<You will probably laugh, as my husband does, that my family's traditional Christmas Eve supper is "hot dogs">> Not that strange. We used to have that as well when I were young. _________________________ Heinz L. Zulauf Flotowstrasse 9 D-64287 Darmstadt Germany e-mail: [email protected] Visit my Private Homepage "The Classical Music Site" http://myweb.vector.ch/zulauf _________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike and Dorie Brennecke" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Christmas traditions > You will probably laugh, as my husband does, that my family's traditional > Christmas Eve supper is "hot dogs", as my husband says! No, not wimpy > American hot dogs, but true German-style wieners with skin on them--more > like sausage, and NO bun! Accompanied by things like hot German potato > salad, red cabbage (Rotkohl), herring salad, and a good strong, German brown > (NOT yellow, heaven forbid!) mustard. I love it, but it makes a lot of > Americans think we be really poor! Or just weird! Dorie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 12:39 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Christmas traditions > > > > My wife is pure German, though both parents were born in this country, > some > > grandparents, too. I have a few German lines in me. We're mostly German > in > > bent around our home. Some of our "Americanized" German traditions at > > "holidaze" are: > > 1) Someone always gets the "Stueck mit eines roten Band" (stick/twig with > a > > bit of red ribbon tied around it; we understand that's sort of equivalent > to > > coal in the stocking) in their Christmas stocking; > > 2) Our main tree is loaded with German ornaments, most of them from the > > Erzgebirge region. The small tree in the antique room is trimmed entirely > > with the antique ornaments and animals from Carol's grandmother (we have > > candle holders for the tree, from Carol's old family, but we don't use > them, > > for obvious reasons). > > 3) Carol always bakes at least one Stollen (we have to diet almost > > constantly, so we don't have a lot of baked goods about), and we enjoy it > > over the season; > > 4) We cook a lot of German-style food at the holidays: favorites include > > Koenigsberger Klops, lots of Spaetzle, Rouladen, Rothkohl mit Apfeln, > > Apfelmuss, Kartoffelpuffer, Schitzeln (various ways, one favorite being a > > Cordon Bleu style), and good Moselwein we bring from Carol's cousin's > Weingut > > on the Mosel River in Burgehn a/d Mosel (we always have plenty on hand and > > drink it on special occasions); > > 5) Of course, lots of German Christmas music (or other kinds too, for > > that;matter) on the stereo; > > 6) I think, in honor of what was very important to our ancestors, we > mainly > > observe the tradition of giving thanks for Jesus. Religion played such an > > important role in our ancestors' families, and it does in ours too. No, > > we're not religious fanatics, just wholeheartedly in favor of Him. > > > > There are a few of the things we do around here that have a German flavor. > > Our daughter is wed to a German, and they live permanently in Germany. > > Christmas with them is a REAL German Christmas (byut the weather is > usually > > crummy). > > > > Dave Ross > > Denver >

Ginger: does the herring eat much of the potato salad? Dave Ross

The intended question is before the one you answered. The question being if there is some set of rules so that you can look at a noun such as Baum, and know through those rules whether it should be das Baum, der Baum, or die Baum. You might guess that since trees do not have sexes that it would be das Baum, but my dictionary says it should be der Baum. Streets don't have sex either and yet it is die Strasse. One rule I seem to remember is that words ending in the letter 'e' were usually 'die'. (Okay I quickly found an exception 'der bube' - the boy, but every rule must have an exception or two). As far as I learned in my four years of high school German, there is no pattern, but every German child or anybody else learning German must not only remember the German names for things, but also whether the new word goes with 'der,die, or das', and then depending on the case, this can be changed to 'den, or dem' or if you are saying 'an' object instead of 'the' object there are five or six different ways to say the English word 'a'. That all seems to be alot of extra work which adds nothing to the ideas being communicated. Perhaps it is a common feature in many languages, or is there some reason for the German language to do that? Speaking of German and changes. The Swiss immigrants to Sauk County, Wisconsin quickly built churches, and of course the services were held in German. Eventually, the younger English speaking generation and perhaps some non-German new neighbors, demanded a change to English speaking services. One of the older members was heard to remark: "I suppose God Himself will have to learn English." Thomas Koch ----- Original Message ----- From: Katharina Hines <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Language > Hi Judy, > That is determined by the word in front of the word 'door' > These are the words der - male > die - female > das - child > die - is also used in the plural form as for > more then one. > Katharina > > >I am sure this has probably been talked about before, but I have never > >understood, and hope someone can explain to me. How to you determine the > >sex > >of inanimate objects, for the German language. How is it determined if a > >door, or chair, for instance, is male or female? There must be some > >reasoning to it, or is this just learned by speaking German as a child, and > >passed up? Thanks for any help. Judy > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com >

> I think I read somewhere that the longest word is the name of a town in > Wales, but I don't have it in front of me. A friend took a photo of the > name, across the front of a building there. However, I would think > Rettungschwimmeruebungsplatz would have to be a close runner up!! LOL I too > would be interested in knowing if there are otherwords like that, and even > longer ones, in German. Two I can remember now are Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän (new spelling would be Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän) (captain of a company for steam navigation on the Danube). That's the most famous I think. And Fußballnationalmannschaftsmittelfeldspieler (player in the midfield of a soccer national team).

Got my hot dogs waiting. Watching for Yukon Gold potatoes because they're better for the potato salad (NOt all potatoes are created equal.). But I am NOT baking a Stollen. Got one in the freezer. <g> By the way....for New Year's Eve just throw the herring in the potato salad. Ginger [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike and Dorie Brennecke" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Christmas traditions > You will probably laugh, as my husband does, that my family's traditional > Christmas Eve supper is "hot dogs", as my husband says! No, not wimpy > American hot dogs, but true German-style wieners with skin on them--more > like sausage, and NO bun! Accompanied by things like hot German potato > salad, red cabbage (Rotkohl), herring salad, and a good strong, German brown > (NOT yellow, heaven forbid!) mustard. I love it, but it makes a lot of > Americans think we be really poor! Or just weird! Dorie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 12:39 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Christmas traditions > > > > My wife is pure German, though both parents were born in this country, > some > > grandparents, too. I have a few German lines in me. We're mostly German > in > > bent around our home. Some of our "Americanized" German traditions at > > "holidaze" are: > > 1) Someone always gets the "Stueck mit eines roten Band" (stick/twig with > a > > bit of red ribbon tied around it; we understand that's sort of equivalent > to > > coal in the stocking) in their Christmas stocking; > > 2) Our main tree is loaded with German ornaments, most of them from the > > Erzgebirge region. The small tree in the antique room is trimmed entirely > > with the antique ornaments and animals from Carol's grandmother (we have > > candle holders for the tree, from Carol's old family, but we don't use > them, > > for obvious reasons). > > 3) Carol always bakes at least one Stollen (we have to diet almost > > constantly, so we don't have a lot of baked goods about), and we enjoy it > > over the season; > > 4) We cook a lot of German-style food at the holidays: favorites include > > Koenigsberger Klops, lots of Spaetzle, Rouladen, Rothkohl mit Apfeln, > > Apfelmuss, Kartoffelpuffer, Schitzeln (various ways, one favorite being a > > Cordon Bleu style), and good Moselwein we bring from Carol's cousin's > Weingut > > on the Mosel River in Burgehn a/d Mosel (we always have plenty on hand and > > drink it on special occasions); > > 5) Of course, lots of German Christmas music (or other kinds too, for > > that;matter) on the stereo; > > 6) I think, in honor of what was very important to our ancestors, we > mainly > > observe the tradition of giving thanks for Jesus. Religion played such an > > important role in our ancestors' families, and it does in ours too. No, > > we're not religious fanatics, just wholeheartedly in favor of Him. > > > > There are a few of the things we do around here that have a German flavor. > > Our daughter is wed to a German, and they live permanently in Germany. > > Christmas with them is a REAL German Christmas (byut the weather is > usually > > crummy). > > > > Dave Ross > > Denver >

> They don't mention the most important reform they need, hoping not to > offend any Germans or Germanophiles, but what is the reasoning for having > five different ways to say the word 'the' or alternatively 'a' ? > > Don't the different forms of "the" and "a" have to do with the gender or > tense of the word following? Never studied german but thought that was > mentioned by someone when I asked why so many different ways to say the same > thing. > > Lita That's right. It depends on the gender. Anita

That the Pfeffernuesse don't get to hard, my grandmother always placed an apple in the same tin with the Pfeffernuesse. Katharina > >Pfeffernusse cookies are favorites in our family, also. They are best when >several weeks old and have become very hard. Soft, chewy pfeffernusse >don't >cut it in our family. > >AJ > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

> They don't mention the most important reform they need, hoping not to > offend any Germans or Germanophiles, but what is the reasoning for having > five different ways to say the word 'the' or alternatively 'a' ? Isn't that > a major stumbling block for anybody trying to learn German? Is that part of > the proposed reforms? No, it's not. It's only a spelling reform. They won't change any words, only their spelling to make it more German or easier (?) to learn for children. To add two things: The Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung had used the new spelling for one year, but since august this year they use the old one again. The DUDEN, which contains German words and their spelling, had published the reforms. But since august this year they use the old spelling again for some words. So let's see how they will go on. :) Anita

Weihnachtsmaerkte (Christmas Markets). The oldest German Christmas market is held in Nuernberg. The 'Christkindlesmarket' (Christ Child MArket) begins each year an the Friday closest to St. Barbara's day (December 4) and last until Christmas Eve. Other traditional markets are in Munich the 'Muenchner Kripperlmarkt (Munich Crib market) and the Dresdner Striezlmarkt, which originally only sold natives scenes and Christstollen. Today, Christmas markets can be found in about all towns in Germany. They sell a range of Christmas food, presents, decorations, Christmas trees, gold foil decorations, candles, candle holders, Christmas tree ornaments and other hand made crafts. What ever the size of the Christmas market, it is always surrounded by the smell of gingerbread, roasted almonds, hot chestnuts, sausages with rolls, and the Gluehwein (mulled wine). Doesn't matter how cold it is on the market if you drink the mulled wine you will stay warm. Also the scent of fresh cut Christmas trees, transform children and adults alike of a special feeling of banishing all cares and worries. You will get in to the christmas spirit when you visit the Christmas Market. Katharina _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

And I thought supercalifragilisticexspialidosious was bad. Jerilyn Jerilyn Lappin Koskan Cook Co., Illinois [email protected] FTM user BREWER-Daniel Belmont, OH, Northumberland, Indiana and Jefferson, PA DAVIS/DAVIDSON-Marium/Mary b1803 Bucks, PA Mother Rachel Greene DUSATKO-Barbara, Anton late 1800s Butler, NE DYE-William, David, Daniel in Monroe, OH early 1800s. FISHER-Joseph, b abt 1805 OH, last Morgan, OH 1850. Wife Judith Lappin. Children John, Knight, Elizabeth, Thomas, Hannah, Mary, Rachel, Ruth GRAY-Ogden b 1850 Morgan, OH, d Fulton, IL. Children - Ogden, Lafayette, Mary A., Cornelius, Elizabeth, Rachel GREENE-Rachel, b abt 1770, Bucks, PA HANNA-Archibald, d 1793 Westmoreland, PA Children Hugh, William, Hannah, Mary (wed Robert Williams) KIRK-Elizabeth, Quaker, daughter Joseph Kirk/Judith Knight, wed Robert Lappin abt 1790. Chester & Fayette, PA Belmont, OH KOSKAN-Vaclav, b 1850s Czechoslovakia d Butler, NE LAPPIN-PA and OH late 1700s/1800s LEAK/LEEK-MD & Eastern, OH in late 1700s and 1800s MITCHELL-Thomas Mitchell, b 1770s Greene, PA -d Monroe, OH. Daughter Maria wed William Dye. MONROE-Nicholas Monroe, b PA, died Belmont, OH early 1850s. Children Curtis, William, John, Samuel, Mary (Hendershot), Eleanor (Maring), Rebecca (Murphy), Miller, George, Richard. MONTGOMERY-Daniel, d 1842 Vinton, OH Family to Wayne, IL Wife Alice Lappin, Children William, Mariah, John, Elizabeth, Rachel, Letticia, Ruth, Euphemia OATES-Sarah Elizabeth born Lewis, WV, adopted Samuel McCluster - to Decatur, KS Parents supposedly Elizabeth Puffenbarger/Benjamin Oates SLUSHER-Frederick, b PA, lived Monroe, OH, d Wayne, IL SMITH-Aaron 1755/Anna Foster Bucks, PA Children John, Amos, Hannah, Samuel, Charles, Mary STARBUCKS-John and Ann Lappin of Belmont, OH STARKEY - b 1810 PA, wed Belmont, OH TODD - Wm. & Rachel Lappin, d late 1800s Morgan, OH WADSWORTH-Alcinda, Martha, Wm., Rachel, Emily, Ruth b Belmont, OH

>Every country has it own Christmas tradition. >In very part of Germany the Christmas tradition is different,too. > >This is a story about 80 years ago in Sachsen. In the saxony. >The 'Heiligabend' Christmas eve is like any other working day. >Even the meal was at that day very simple. >At midnight the people get up to cut the Christstollen. >The Christstollen was baked a few weeks ahead before Christmas. >On Christmas morning every one got up very early,because at 6 am was >the first church service and no one would like to miss it. >After the church service when the family got home every stove would be >lit.Even the one in the 'Gute Stube' living room. >Because the stove in the living room only was lit on sundays. >Every one had a meal together. After the meal was the 'Bescherung'and >the opening of the presents. >In the living room the mother would trim the christmas tree, the children >where not aloud to see the tree before the 'Bescherung'. >That was a long waiting period for the children to finally open there >presents. Even the children from the rich family didn't get very many >presents. >>From the near by 'Erzgebirge' frontier mountains between the Saxony and >Czech-Slovakia many people made hand carved toys ,angels ,dolls >and many decorations for the tree. THe 'Riesengebirge' that is a mountain >range in the frontier mountains many 'Glassbläsereinen' >glass blowers made beautiful christmas tree balls. >The poor families made christmas stars from straw for the christmas tree >decorations.Also nuts and apples where hang in the tree. >Some families melted some lead and poured it for good luck. >The church going families would not do it, they where more superstitious, >they said it was not fitting for Christmas. >For the Christmas dinner they would have 12 different foods to eat. From >the 12 different foods a little bit had to be left over, that was the >custom,that the family had enough to eat in the coming 12 month of the next >year. Only the roasted goose and the >Klösse, every one could have as much as they wanted. >That is a story a g-aunt told me when I was a little girl. >She lived in the Saxony >Katharina _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

I was born in germany. As a young woman I came to the USA. I have been back to Germany many of times ,even at Christmas time. All my Christmas memories, I will cherish. It has been long thought, that Martin Luther began the tradition of bring a fir tree into the house. The legend says, Martin Luther was walking home through the woods and noticed how beautifully the stars shined through the trees. He wanted to share the beauty with his wife, so he cut down a fir tree and took it home. As he got home he placed small lighted candles on the branches and said it would be a symbol of the Christmas sky, hence the christmas tree. Another story is been told, that in the 1600's, people in Germany combined two customs that had been practiced in different countries a round the world. The Paradise tree (a fir tree decorated with apples) represented the tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden. The Christmas Light a pyramid like frame,decorated with glass balls and tinsel and with a candle on top, was the symbol of the birth of Christ as the light of the world. The german people decorated homes with evergreens and fruit and paper roses.Since it was around the shortest day of the year, the lighting of candles , the green tree and the fruit on the tree was a remembrance of the spring and summer when every thing was light and green. Through the centuries, in Germany there where at least 3'Weihnachtsmänner'. The first was Vater Thor, he was an old man with a long white beard, dressed in red . He road thru the skis in a gold chariots pulled by two white goats. St. Nicholas ,a 4 th Century bishop of Myra Asia ,was known for his miracles and generosity ,became a Saint to children. His helper is Knecht Ruprecht. Nicholas day is celebrated on the 6. of Dec. The children set their shoe in front of the door in the evening od Dec.5. and hoping St. Nicholas brings them something sweet to eat. But if they where bad children they may get a switch. The Christkind is a young girl wearing a golden crown. She was a messenger from the Christ Child and personified the idea of giving gifts. This tradition happen in some areas around the same time that much of Germany separated from the Roman Catholic Church. In more the southern part of Germany ,the three Thursday evenings before Christmas are knocking nights. The children going from house to house saying rhymes beginning with the word' knock'. The children crack whips,ring cowbells to drive away evil spirits. These are some of the stories I have been told or as I was a child, I have done some of this customs my self. I am not a very good writer but I like to share the things our family has down for generations. Katharina _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

St, Nicholas is one of the most popular saints of the Christian Church. He is the patron saint of sailors,travelers,baker, merchants and especially children. Little is known about his life, except that he was a Bishop of Myra in Lycia on the coast of Asia-Minor. It is believed that he was born in Patara in Lycia. Some stories were told that he made a pilgrimage to Egypt and Palestine, that he was imprisoned during the Diocesan's persecution and released under Constantine. Many miracles were credited to him. Much of Europe still observes Dec. 6. the date of St. Nicholas death, as a special holiday. In time he became a patron saint of the children. On the night before the 6. of Dec. children but there shoes in front of the bedroom door. In hopes that St. Nick will live some candy. In the morning when they get up, they rush an see what St. Nick left them. If the children have been nice they will get candy. Naughty children may only get switches. 'With which their parents can spank them.' St. Nicholas always has a helper . In Germany it is Knecht Rubrecht. All the children love St. Nicholas , but they are some times afraid of his helper. His helper keeps track of the children who were good and who where bad. It could maybe be if they were real bad last year, that Knecht Ruprecht carry them away in the helpers bag till they are learn to be good. After Knecht Ruprecht helped St. Nicholas on Dec. 5.-6.; he will help the Christkind on Christmas eve to bring the presents. Dutch settlers in America continued to celebrate the day. Their name for Saint Nicholas was Sinterklass. This became then Santa Claus. Katharina _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com