Land is scarce -- in Switzerland graves are turned over every 20-25 years -- my mother told me that years ago -- so no surprise to me. -----Original Message----- From: Katharina Hines [SMTP:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 8:59 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] graves in Germany There is no embalming done in Germany. One member of my family past away at 1 pm in his home. The Dr.had to be called, to sign the death paper. He called then the Funeral home. When the mortician came he changed the clothing, of the death person. The person was placed in the casket. The casket was taking to the chapel on the cemetery. By then it was 10 pm. One other time, an other relative past a way in the nursing home over easter. Since there are 2 days of Easter holiday. The Nursing home kept the body in the basement till Tuesday when the Funeral home came and picked the body up, to take it to the chapel on the cemetery. In Germany the funeral service is done, as soon as possible. Katharina > >I don't think there are any bones left by then. I am not sure they embalm >as >would be hurtful to the ecology. I know they are wrapped in white and yes >they are turned. They are not always turned in the smaller villages, but >every place I went that was the case. I wrote an article on burial >practices >around the world last fall and got in trouble for not sticking to >genealogy, >but I felt that it would help you do your research as was quite a shock to >be >so excited to get to Germany expecting 200 years of tombstones and finding >no >old ones. Jerilyn > >Jerilyn Lappin Koskan >Cook Co., Illinois >[email protected] >FTM user > >BREWER-Daniel Belmont, OH, Northumberland, Indiana and Jefferson, PA >DAVIS/DAVIDSON-Marium/Mary b1803 Bucks, PA Mother Rachel Greene >DUSATKO-Barbara, Anton late 1800s Butler, NE >DYE-William, David, Daniel in Monroe, OH early 1800s. >FISHER-Joseph, b abt 1805 OH, last Morgan, OH 1850. Wife Judith Lappin. >Children John, Knight, Elizabeth, Thomas, Hannah, Mary, Rachel, Ruth >GRAY-Ogden b 1850 Morgan, OH, d Fulton, IL. Children - Ogden, Lafayette, >Mary A., Cornelius, Elizabeth, Rachel >GREENE-Rachel, b abt 1770, Bucks, PA >HANNA-Archibald, d 1793 Westmoreland, PA Children Hugh, William, Hannah, >Mary >(wed Robert Williams) >KIRK-Elizabeth, Quaker, daughter Joseph Kirk/Judith Knight, wed Robert >Lappin >abt 1790. Chester & Fayette, PA Belmont, OH >KOSKAN-Vaclav, b 1850s Czechoslovakia d Butler, NE >LAPPIN-PA and OH late 1700s/1800s >LEAK/LEEK-MD & Eastern, OH in late 1700s and 1800s >MITCHELL-Thomas Mitchell, b 1770s Greene, PA -d Monroe, OH. Daughter Maria >wed William Dye. > >MONROE-Nicholas Monroe, b PA, died Belmont, OH early 1850s. Children >Curtis, >William, John, Samuel, Mary (Hendershot), Eleanor (Maring), Rebecca >(Murphy), >Miller, George, Richard. >MONTGOMERY-Daniel, d 1842 Vinton, OH Family to Wayne, IL Wife Alice Lappin, >Children William, Mariah, John, Elizabeth, Rachel, Letticia, Ruth, Euphemia >OATES-Sarah Elizabeth born Lewis, WV, adopted Samuel McCluster - to >Decatur, >KS Parents supposedly Elizabeth Puffenbarger/Benjamin Oates >SLUSHER-Frederick, b PA, lived Monroe, OH, d Wayne, IL >SMITH-Aaron 1755/Anna Foster Bucks, PA Children John, Amos, Hannah, Samuel, >Charles, Mary >STARBUCKS-John and Ann Lappin of Belmont, OH >STARKEY - b 1810 PA, wed Belmont, OH >TODD - Wm. & Rachel Lappin, d late 1800s Morgan, OH >WADSWORTH-Alcinda, Martha, Wm., Rachel, Emily, Ruth b Belmont, OH > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

There is no embalming done in Germany. One member of my family past away at 1 pm in his home. The Dr.had to be called, to sign the death paper. He called then the Funeral home. When the mortician came he changed the clothing, of the death person. The person was placed in the casket. The casket was taking to the chapel on the cemetery. By then it was 10 pm. One other time, an other relative past a way in the nursing home over easter. Since there are 2 days of Easter holiday. The Nursing home kept the body in the basement till Tuesday when the Funeral home came and picked the body up, to take it to the chapel on the cemetery. In Germany the funeral service is done, as soon as possible. Katharina > >I don't think there are any bones left by then. I am not sure they embalm >as >would be hurtful to the ecology. I know they are wrapped in white and yes >they are turned. They are not always turned in the smaller villages, but >every place I went that was the case. I wrote an article on burial >practices >around the world last fall and got in trouble for not sticking to >genealogy, >but I felt that it would help you do your research as was quite a shock to >be >so excited to get to Germany expecting 200 years of tombstones and finding >no >old ones. Jerilyn > >Jerilyn Lappin Koskan >Cook Co., Illinois >[email protected] >FTM user > >BREWER-Daniel Belmont, OH, Northumberland, Indiana and Jefferson, PA >DAVIS/DAVIDSON-Marium/Mary b1803 Bucks, PA Mother Rachel Greene >DUSATKO-Barbara, Anton late 1800s Butler, NE >DYE-William, David, Daniel in Monroe, OH early 1800s. >FISHER-Joseph, b abt 1805 OH, last Morgan, OH 1850. Wife Judith Lappin. >Children John, Knight, Elizabeth, Thomas, Hannah, Mary, Rachel, Ruth >GRAY-Ogden b 1850 Morgan, OH, d Fulton, IL. Children - Ogden, Lafayette, >Mary A., Cornelius, Elizabeth, Rachel >GREENE-Rachel, b abt 1770, Bucks, PA >HANNA-Archibald, d 1793 Westmoreland, PA Children Hugh, William, Hannah, >Mary >(wed Robert Williams) >KIRK-Elizabeth, Quaker, daughter Joseph Kirk/Judith Knight, wed Robert >Lappin >abt 1790. Chester & Fayette, PA Belmont, OH >KOSKAN-Vaclav, b 1850s Czechoslovakia d Butler, NE >LAPPIN-PA and OH late 1700s/1800s >LEAK/LEEK-MD & Eastern, OH in late 1700s and 1800s >MITCHELL-Thomas Mitchell, b 1770s Greene, PA -d Monroe, OH. Daughter Maria >wed William Dye. > >MONROE-Nicholas Monroe, b PA, died Belmont, OH early 1850s. Children >Curtis, >William, John, Samuel, Mary (Hendershot), Eleanor (Maring), Rebecca >(Murphy), >Miller, George, Richard. >MONTGOMERY-Daniel, d 1842 Vinton, OH Family to Wayne, IL Wife Alice Lappin, >Children William, Mariah, John, Elizabeth, Rachel, Letticia, Ruth, Euphemia >OATES-Sarah Elizabeth born Lewis, WV, adopted Samuel McCluster - to >Decatur, >KS Parents supposedly Elizabeth Puffenbarger/Benjamin Oates >SLUSHER-Frederick, b PA, lived Monroe, OH, d Wayne, IL >SMITH-Aaron 1755/Anna Foster Bucks, PA Children John, Amos, Hannah, Samuel, >Charles, Mary >STARBUCKS-John and Ann Lappin of Belmont, OH >STARKEY - b 1810 PA, wed Belmont, OH >TODD - Wm. & Rachel Lappin, d late 1800s Morgan, OH >WADSWORTH-Alcinda, Martha, Wm., Rachel, Emily, Ruth b Belmont, OH > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Could you tell me what the process is and what rate do they charge? Thanks Claire -----Original Message----- From: Katharina Hines [SMTP:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:10 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Re: Address I just was told the adresse is old here is the new one Die Deutsche Zentralstelle fur Geneologie Schongauerstr.1 04329 Leipzig Germany I spelled Leipzig right this time!!!!!!!! Katharina >From: "WRidge" <[email protected]> > >Would be very interested in someone elaborating on this: >Wan > > > > Hi > > I found today an address > > Deutsche Zentralstelle fur Genealogie > > Kathe Kollwitzstr.82 > > 04109 Leipzig > > Germany > > tel 49(341)401113 > > the center won't provide you with your family tree, but prommises to >answer > > specific questions(the more specific, the better your chances). > > Their collection includes 100 000 personal documents and 16 000 church > > registers (dating back to the sixteenth century) and basic information >an > > more then 1.4 million people is available. > > Does any one knows of there sevice? > > May be it would be some help for some one > > Katharina > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________ >_________ > > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : >http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

I ask once the same question when I was a small child. I was told, they are taking to the bone mill. I don't even want to think about it. All my family was cremated. There ashes where buried in the Balkan Sea. To be near there,were they was born, Pommern. Katharina > >I have read that people buried in Germany and other European countries >often >have their remains removed after 20-30 years. Then the same plot is used >for another body. Where do the bones go after they are removed from the >plot? > >Thanks! > >Diane > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Hi, I just joined this very informative list since I am just beginning a geneological search for Schaefer roots. 32 years ago I went to Witterschlick (a suburb of Bonn) with my family. We looked at graves there and didn't find a single relative. Now I know why! How long has Germany used this method of turning graves? When did embalming stop, were embalming methods ever used? Thanks! Sue Schafer (I just found out the original spelling two weeks ago.)

Katharina, I just want to mention that the name of the city is Leipzig not Leibzig _________________________ Heinz L. Zulauf Flotowstrasse 9 D-64287 Darmstadt Germany e-mail: [email protected] Visit my Private Homepage "The Classical Music Site" http://myweb.vector.ch/zulauf _________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katharina Hines" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 4:18 AM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] Re: Adress Hi I found today a adress Deutsche Zentralstelle für Genealogie Käthe Kollwitzstr.82 04109 Leibzig Germany tel 49(341)401113 the center won't provide you with your family tree, but prommises to answer specific questions(the more specific, the better your chances). Their collection includes 100 000 personal documents and 16 000 church registers (dating back to the sixteenth century) and basic information an more then 1.4 million people is available. Does any one knows of there sevice? May be it would be some help for some one Katharina ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Too bad, Jerilyn, that someone "came down on you" for your article on burial practices. Understanding that is as much a part of genealogy as finding granddad's naturalization papers !! It's all part of the picture, isn't it? If you still have that article in file, I'd appreciate your forwarding it to me. Dave Ross Denver, CO

I don't think there are any bones left by then. I am not sure they embalm as would be hurtful to the ecology. I know they are wrapped in white and yes they are turned. They are not always turned in the smaller villages, but every place I went that was the case. I wrote an article on burial practices around the world last fall and got in trouble for not sticking to genealogy, but I felt that it would help you do your research as was quite a shock to be so excited to get to Germany expecting 200 years of tombstones and finding no old ones. Jerilyn Jerilyn Lappin Koskan Cook Co., Illinois [email protected] FTM user BREWER-Daniel Belmont, OH, Northumberland, Indiana and Jefferson, PA DAVIS/DAVIDSON-Marium/Mary b1803 Bucks, PA Mother Rachel Greene DUSATKO-Barbara, Anton late 1800s Butler, NE DYE-William, David, Daniel in Monroe, OH early 1800s. FISHER-Joseph, b abt 1805 OH, last Morgan, OH 1850. Wife Judith Lappin. Children John, Knight, Elizabeth, Thomas, Hannah, Mary, Rachel, Ruth GRAY-Ogden b 1850 Morgan, OH, d Fulton, IL. Children - Ogden, Lafayette, Mary A., Cornelius, Elizabeth, Rachel GREENE-Rachel, b abt 1770, Bucks, PA HANNA-Archibald, d 1793 Westmoreland, PA Children Hugh, William, Hannah, Mary (wed Robert Williams) KIRK-Elizabeth, Quaker, daughter Joseph Kirk/Judith Knight, wed Robert Lappin abt 1790. Chester & Fayette, PA Belmont, OH KOSKAN-Vaclav, b 1850s Czechoslovakia d Butler, NE LAPPIN-PA and OH late 1700s/1800s LEAK/LEEK-MD & Eastern, OH in late 1700s and 1800s MITCHELL-Thomas Mitchell, b 1770s Greene, PA -d Monroe, OH. Daughter Maria wed William Dye. MONROE-Nicholas Monroe, b PA, died Belmont, OH early 1850s. Children Curtis, William, John, Samuel, Mary (Hendershot), Eleanor (Maring), Rebecca (Murphy), Miller, George, Richard. MONTGOMERY-Daniel, d 1842 Vinton, OH Family to Wayne, IL Wife Alice Lappin, Children William, Mariah, John, Elizabeth, Rachel, Letticia, Ruth, Euphemia OATES-Sarah Elizabeth born Lewis, WV, adopted Samuel McCluster - to Decatur, KS Parents supposedly Elizabeth Puffenbarger/Benjamin Oates SLUSHER-Frederick, b PA, lived Monroe, OH, d Wayne, IL SMITH-Aaron 1755/Anna Foster Bucks, PA Children John, Amos, Hannah, Samuel, Charles, Mary STARBUCKS-John and Ann Lappin of Belmont, OH STARKEY - b 1810 PA, wed Belmont, OH TODD - Wm. & Rachel Lappin, d late 1800s Morgan, OH WADSWORTH-Alcinda, Martha, Wm., Rachel, Emily, Ruth b Belmont, OH

I think that's true. My grandmother's 30 years are going to be up pretty soon, so my aunt in Germany has contacted my mother about what they will do. But I don't know what happens to the remains if the family gives up the gravesite. Maybe some of our German subscribers will know?? Dorie ----- Original Message ----- From: Diane Frankenfield <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 4:50 AM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] graves in Germany > I have read that people buried in Germany and other European countries often > have their remains removed after 20-30 years. Then the same plot is used > for another body. Where do the bones go after they are removed from the > plot? > > Thanks! > > Diane

I have read that people buried in Germany and other European countries often have their remains removed after 20-30 years. Then the same plot is used for another body. Where do the bones go after they are removed from the plot? Thanks! Diane

Hi I found today a adress Deutsche Zentralstelle für Genealogie Käthe Kollwitzstr.82 04109 Leibzig Germany tel 49(341)401113 the center won't provide you with your family tree, but prommises to answer specific questions(the more specific, the better your chances). Their collection includes 100 000 personal documents and 16 000 church registers (dating back to the sixteenth century) and basic information an more then 1.4 million people is available. Does any one knows of there sevice? May be it would be some help for some one Katharina _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Hi I found today a adress Deutsche Zentralstelle für Genealogie Käthe Kollwitzstr.82 04109 Leibzig Germany tel 49(341)401113 the center won't provide you with your family tree, but prommises to answer specific questions(the more specific, the better your chances). Their collection includes 100 000 personal documents and 16 000 church registers (dating back to the sixteenth century) and basic information an more then 1.4 million people is available. Does any one knows of there sevice? May be it would be some help for some one Katharina _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

I did some work and got the statistics to document my impression - illegitimacy rose after 1810 in both of the German villages that I looked at. It seems to me that infant mortality rose as well, but I don't have the numbers on that. Also, to my annoyance, the handwriting also got much worse after 1810. Perhaps there are other explanations for these trends, but the only significant change I could think of was the activities of Napoleon. Anyway, I raise the question in case anyone has information or a theory. village of Weigheim before after year # of births # illegitimate # illegitimate # births year 1780 22 1 2 19 1820 1781 17 1 3 22 1821 1782 15 2 1 19 1822 1783 11 0 1 14 1823 1784 21 1 7 35 1824 1785 15 2 2 14 1825 1786 16 0 5 20 1826 1787 16 1 2 15 1827 1788 14 2 6 21 1828 1789 19 4 3 21 1829 1790 17 1 5 11 1830 1791 17 1 2 24 1831 1792 16 2 5 19 1832 1793 17 3 village of Durchhausen before after year # of births # illegitimate # illegitimate # births year 1780 21 0 4 29 1820 1781 15 0 5 28 1821 1782 28 0 4 23 1822 1783 8 0 1 20 1823 1784 21 0 2 23 1824 1785 17 1 1 19 1825 1786 25 0 3 19 1826 1787 11 0 4 28 1827 1788 21 1 2 19 1828 1789 18 0 5 28 1829 1790 14 2 4 22 1830 1791 20 1 1792 19 1 1793 15 1 Maybe, I should look at the number of marriages in those years. It could be a result of war casualties creating a shortage of potential husbands. The same explanation might account for the infant mortality, a loss of workers leads to a loss of income and an increase in poverty, and that poverty falls hardest on the newborns. As far as handwriting goes, again, it could be that the people are spending too much time studying war to learn proper penmanship. Has anybody seen this in other areas? These villages were far away from any battles. The only casualties would be young men drafted into Napoleon's armies, and I do not know how much of that was done. Probably those battle deaths would not be very well documented. Thomas Koch

Well, the goose bumps are here again...as I have said before we have an antique airplane club that is located at our small airport and today one of them is out there doing stalls, rolls, and dives and a little upside down flying and the hum or roar of that engine still gives me the willies...he is doing dives with rolls, stalls with rolls, big boys and their toys... Tschüß, Gail Meyer Kilgore Casa Grande, Arizona

> Well, the goose bumps are here again...as I have said before we have an > antique airplane club that is located at our small airport and today one of > them is out there doing stalls, rolls, and dives and a little upside down > flying and the hum or roar of that engine still gives me the willies...he is > doing dives with rolls, stalls with rolls, big boys and their toys... > > Tschüß, > ********************************************************** Gail, I have a small airport near to my home but I never see them do their daring flying acts...I wish they would perform here. I think that they fly out of town for that, durn it anyhow. JLerch..(Spokane, WA.)

Katharina ... May I impose upon you for the recipe for Pfeffernuess Thank you ... Ken DEUBLE (with ancestors from Großbottwar) Townsville Queensland AUSTRALIA > -----Original Message----- > From: Katharina Hines [SMTP:[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 10:52 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] RE: Christmas in Germany > > Hi, > I posted the other day the recipe for the Pfeffernuesss on the German food > > list. > If some one is not on the German food list. > I will send the recipe to you privately > Katharina > > > This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential or privileged information and is intended for the sole use of the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, or the person responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, please notify the sender or [email protected] immediately, and delete all copies. Any unauthorised review, use, alteration, disclosure or distribution of this e-mail by an unintended recipient is prohibited. Ergon Energy accepts no responsibility for the content of any e-mail sent by an employee which is of a personal nature.

I found this article in the paper today. Germany!! Come the holiday season, open air markets make their traditions appearance in the center of nearly every German town. Ornate boots selling food, drink, craft or gifts line the decorated "Platz' or Strasse. Outside in the cold, often snow filled air, the warmly bundled Germans stop to peruse the goods, squeezing their way around the street musicians. The attendants, warmed by heaters and shelter by temporary roofs, exchange a festive banter with passers-by. " It is really like a story book," said Claire Kantowicz, who spent 12 years in Hamburg and now works at the Chicago branch of Goethe Institute. The markets tend to create more of a social event than a shopping event,she said. With Christmas approaching, downtown areas fill with shoppers- most on foot,most in the markets. "They're full, but it's not an aggressive, panicky shopping," Kantowicz said. In fact, Christmas traditions in Germany tend to be what she called "more natural, a lot less smashy". Open- air markets spring up every where. Nearly every one puts up a live tree subtly decorated with real candles. Instead of the store, holiday treats come out of the kitchen. It's not completely different from the United States. " It gets earlier every year," Becky Martin said in mid -November. " there is already some homes with their Christmas decoration up. Martin moved to Dessau, Germany, 12 years ago to continue her career in opera. She now lives in Nurnberg, home of a christmas market that's known world wide. She sees a lot of different between holidays there and in Allentown ,Pa. where she spent much of her live. Germans tend to start their shopping earlier than Americans, she said. Stores are closed Sundays; on Saturday they stay open till 6 p.m. during December only. And trends that hit the United States usually don't receive the same fanfare there. " All kids have Pokemon cards," Martin said. " But it's not as fanatical". Neither is the rush to large stores such as Wal-Mart. The natural growth and strict zoning of towns in western Germany have channeled business to downtown shops and smaller stores. The 95 Super centers throughout the country have struggled. Though, comparable store sales rose 7 percent in the third quarter, Wal- Mart"s senior vice president of finance Jay Fitzsimmons said. The company still is a few quarters away from hitting its goals. Hans- Joachim Koerber, chief executive with Wal -Mart's German Competitor, Metro AG, explained Wal- Mart troubles. It is an American retailer with international operations, he said, not an international retailer. " Wal- mart is totally wrong for German culture," Martin said. Adding that the famous Wal- MArt associate cheer is virtually one existent there. " It's really a question of adapting to the culture, or the culture adapting to them." But around christmas, Martin said, that's even more difficult. After all, Germans still prefer their open- air- markets. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Love to receive the recipes--thanks. Fred

Karen, Here is the site for B-W archives. [email protected] Terry

Oh,oh.... I already intended to have one for me. Now I have to have one for you.......I may be in trouble here. <g> Ginger [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Christkindlesmarkt > Ginger -- have at least ONE Gluehwein for me? Thanks, and enjoy !! > > Dave Ross >