My ggrandfather's name was Johann Dionis Schaefer (from Prussia, Rhineland, Bonn, suburb of Witterschlick). Born in 1821 Witterschlick, He was a teacher of music at Bonn University. Although Dionis (or Dionysius) is an unusual name nowadays was it once common? Has anyone seen it very often? It IS separate and unrelated to the name Dennis, isn't it? Thanks, Sue (As a wine lover, I'd like to imagine that he was named after the Greek God of Wine, but there is probably a Catholic saint somewhere named Dionysius. Was the Bonn area a grape growing area? surely its too cold up there.. sorry for my dumb questions.)

> . 'Right there', he said, 'we burned every > thing we could find.' He then shrugged his shoulders and said, 'We > were just following orders'. A familiar refrain. > > Makes one realize how precious the things that made it thru all these times really are! But I sometimes wonder what some of the things we do now will be looked upon but generations down the line. Lita I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, please ask me to wait! See some of my accomplishments! <A HREF="http://pages.ivillage.com/pux4/">Click here: Pux's Page</A> http://pages.ivillage.com/pux4/ <A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=89621">My PhotoPoint Album</A> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=89621

Hi, I guess my 'blah' comment the other day about the airplanes and antique plane club was not received all that well. My comments were referring not to the club but to the type of WW II plane that we have discussed previously on this mail list. The goose bumps were the shivers that I get when I hear the planes. Growing up near a military camp in IL and hearing the planes as a child and knowing the purpose of those planes, still has an effect on me and I was in the US and so I know what effect those planes had on other members of this mail list who were not from the States. I was just making a comment that "they are back". And, an addition to a previous discussion. Gail

<< I don't, however, know the time period so I'm not sure if it falls into the Napoleanic era or not. >> Greetings Listers, It seems like the Alsatian church records for German speaking folks during the Napoleonic era reflect a problem with church marriages not being recognized... just the newly required civil marriages. As a result, after Napoleon was defeated, the Catholic priests -- I'm not familiar with Evangelical records -- tried to enter those past entries as best they could from the folks who were still alive and in the area. Has anyone else found this kind of church record keeping during the Napoleonic years and probably after until society began to change back a bit....?? So, there could be quite a few non-marriages and illegitimate kids among these Alsatian Germans. Remember also, many fled across the Rhine River into Baden to escape the events in France. Again, living and hiding in the Black Forest isn't condusive to church attendance and proper required behavior. Anyone have something else / different...?? Mary Lynn Axtman [email protected]

On 30 Nov 2000, at 23:08, [email protected] wrote: > Does anyone have other information on this...?? Is this > a valid use of recycled granite grave markers in Germany/ > Europe...?? I found such use of grave markers all over the place in Poland where they stripped all the previous German cemeteries of their stones and used them for paving stomes. Obviously this mostly in the cities. In the countryside the cemeteries were simply stripped by the locals of anything of salvageable value. Iron crosses, fences and chains made for good scrap metal resales. Even while I was there in 1995 someone had just stripped a WWI memorial which had a big iron chain around it and made off with it. Plaques and such also disappear. Some of the cemeteries I found only appeared because there would be an incongruous little forest in the middle of nowhere. Going there revealed an overgrown jungle where graves had been dug up to search for valuables and everything was just a tumbled mess with trees growing everywhere. One cemetery we only found by following a path of huge trees where a road used to be which led to the place. It was quite a struggle getting through the underbrush but the trees kept guiding us until we finally would up at a stripped chapel and a cemetery looking as described above. Some cast iron markers were still visible and went back the late 30's and early 40's. A local told us about his time in 1945 when he arrived there as a boy. The kids pulled down the stone sarcaphacuses (?) and using the interior oak coffins as boats to ride in on the lake. As adults the people are a little ashamed of their actions but back then anything went. As a historian/genealogist all this only saddens the heart. The family had lived their for 600 years and the last owner was executed by the nazis for being involved with the plot to kill Hitler. One would have thought he deserved some respect but none came forth. His library was still in tact in the 60s when Gomulka ordered any remaining German books and archivalk material either collected or destroyed. The same guy above told me how he and his mother simply burned all the old books out of the estate in the middle of the square in front of the place. 'Right there', he said, 'we burned every thing we could find.' He then shrugged his shoulders and said, 'We were just following orders'. A familiar refrain. Fred 4788 Corian Court Naples, FL 34114 941-775-7838 [email protected] Pelican Lake Motor Coach Resort

Are you referring to my ramblings about cemeteries around the world? It just started out as comments on what I have learned as I have been fortunate to travel. Jerilyn Jerilyn Lappin Koskan Cook Co., Illinois [email protected] FTM user BREWER-Daniel Belmont, OH, Northumberland, Indiana and Jefferson, PA DAVIS/DAVIDSON-Marium/Mary b1803 Bucks, PA Mother Rachel Greene DUSATKO-Barbara, Anton late 1800s Butler, NE DYE-William, David, Daniel in Monroe, OH early 1800s. FISHER-Joseph, b abt 1805 OH, last Morgan, OH 1850. Wife Judith Lappin. Children John, Knight, Elizabeth, Thomas, Hannah, Mary, Rachel, Ruth GRAY-Ogden b 1850 Morgan, OH, d Fulton, IL. Children - Ogden, Lafayette, Mary A., Cornelius, Elizabeth, Rachel GREENE-Rachel, b abt 1770, Bucks, PA HANNA-Archibald, d 1793 Westmoreland, PA Children Hugh, William, Hannah, Mary (wed Robert Williams) KIRK-Elizabeth, Quaker, daughter Joseph Kirk/Judith Knight, wed Robert Lappin abt 1790. Chester & Fayette, PA Belmont, OH KOSKAN-Vaclav, b 1850s Czechoslovakia d Butler, NE LAPPIN-PA and OH late 1700s/1800s LEAK/LEEK-MD & Eastern, OH in late 1700s and 1800s MITCHELL-Thomas Mitchell, b 1770s Greene, PA -d Monroe, OH. Daughter Maria wed William Dye. MONROE-Nicholas Monroe, b PA, died Belmont, OH early 1850s. Children Curtis, William, John, Samuel, Mary (Hendershot), Eleanor (Maring), Rebecca (Murphy), Miller, George, Richard. MONTGOMERY-Daniel, d 1842 Vinton, OH Family to Wayne, IL Wife Alice Lappin, Children William, Mariah, John, Elizabeth, Rachel, Letticia, Ruth, Euphemia OATES-Sarah Elizabeth born Lewis, WV, adopted Samuel McCluster - to Decatur, KS Parents supposedly Elizabeth Puffenbarger/Benjamin Oates SLUSHER-Frederick, b PA, lived Monroe, OH, d Wayne, IL SMITH-Aaron 1755/Anna Foster Bucks, PA Children John, Amos, Hannah, Samuel, Charles, Mary STARBUCKS-John and Ann Lappin of Belmont, OH STARKEY - b 1810 PA, wed Belmont, OH TODD - Wm. & Rachel Lappin, d late 1800s Morgan, OH WADSWORTH-Alcinda, Martha, Wm., Rachel, Emily, Ruth b Belmont, OH

This was played as the Offertory at my Dad's church last weekend. I can translate all but one word so it doesn't make any sense to me. Help, please. "Es woll uns Gott genadig sein" by J.C. Bach Thanks in advance. Linda [email protected]

Mind if I inject a little humor? Years ago, W. C. Fields bought a plot in Forest Lawn Cemetery. For years after, he was in a constant battle with cemetery management. He would plant tomatoes , in the plot, and they would make him take them out. He would argue that he bought the plot, but it was to no avail. This is true. The story of his epitaph reading, "On the whole, I would rather be here than in Philadelphia, " is false. Roy Schmidt >>> <[email protected]> 11/30/00 04:01PM >>> I walked through a few cemeteries while visiting Germany during the summer months. I was astonished to see what Katharina described as little flower gardens, and many people pruning, weeding & watering them. They were absolutely beautiful. I guess the closest thing Americans might come to it is our old fashioned decoration day. Both of my mother's parents' people have family cemeteries that are still maintained in North Carolina, and they have an annual decoration day. On that day, the family members, who still live near by, gather to rake the winter's debris, clean the stones and put new, but unfortunately, plastic flowers across the plots. I wonder if this is a result of the original decoration day for the union soldiers following the Civil War - oops, I digress. I've often that of developing a garden plot for Grandfather's grave in that family cemetery, much like the ones I saw in his native country. The family would probably think nutty! Ginny

In a message dated 01/12/00 04:16:12 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: << Does anyone have other information on this...?? Is this a valid use of recycled granite grave markers in Germany/ Europe...?? >> Hi Mary Certainly not in the U.K. The thought is extremely distasteful to me. Most of our old church cemeteries have the stones over the grave site but where, for some reason, they need to move the memorials, the stones are placed upright around the cemetery walls. Even where a church falls into disuse and is scheduled for re-development, the bodies and the stones are removed to another site and re-interred. This has me thinking of a town in Germany/Austria?? where I visited a charnel house to be astonished to see many skulls displayed, all with the name of the deceased painted on them and some with other decorations. Anyone know where this is? I really should keep a journal! There is, I know, a famous catacomb beneath a church in Oldenburg/Old where there are many skeletons in orderly piles. Now you have me determined to find out what happened to bodies in the U.K. before about 1600 which seems to be the earliest date I can remember seeing. That is, apart from the elaborate tombs of the rich and famous inside the churches. The most spectacular one where I live is of a lord known as the wrestling baronet who is depicted in a wrestling stance. No! not the kind of wrestling/acting seen on television! His style was known as the 'Cornish hug' Why am I suddenly tempted to burst into song? Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones TTFN Jack In the land of Robin Hood

I also was surprised at how close some of the villages were. I was in Hessen and had been looking at maps and was wondering how my ancestors met all their mates when they were from different towns. I got over there and started driving from village to village and they were sometimes only one mile apart -- easy walking distance. Now if I could just figure out where my Becker family came from in Obersaulheim. Becker is a very common name over there, but every Becker in Obersaulheim is mine. The first one just showed up with a wife and had children. She died and then he shows up with another wife. Neither wife nor he was born there, but where? I love visiting Germany. The people have been so helpful. Of course most of my time is in churches and cemeteries, but the people in charge of the cemeteries have taken time and went with us to the city hall to show us records or get a copy of a town book for us. Of course in German - and still trying to read -- but what friendly people. We try to visit at least once a year as we have had a lot of exchange students from there and have become friends of all the families. Besides I love the food. Jerilyn

Would be very interested in someone elaborating on this: Wanda ----- Original Message ----- From: Katharina Hines <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 4:18 AM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] Re: Adress > Hi > I found today an address > Deutsche Zentralstelle für Genealogie > Käthe Kollwitzstr.82 > 04109 Leibzig > Germany > tel 49(341)401113 > the center won't provide you with your family tree, but prommises to answer > specific questions(the more specific, the better your chances). > Their collection includes 100 000 personal documents and 16 000 church > registers (dating back to the sixteenth century) and basic information an > more then 1.4 million people is available. > Does any one knows of there sevice? > May be it would be some help for some one > Katharina > > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > >

Dick, I would love to see them. Judy <<<Just a thought ... if anyones interested, I could put some photos of German / Austrian grave sites I took while I was there in the late 70's. Let me know .. and if there's enough interest, I'll set it up>>>

I would suggest finding other recipes with citron, and comparing quantity and amount of other ingredients. Maybe you could figure out approximately how much to use. It might take some experimenting. Or contact the extension service of a nearby university--ours has home economics people who help with things like that. Or check with a college food and nutrition department or a chef in your area for advice. Dorie ----- Original Message ----- From: Gail Meyer Kilgore <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 1:48 AM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] 10¢ worth of citron > Haven't seen a reply to this and I guess it would depend on what year he > wrote the recipe or I would think that with the other citron that he used he > did not use a lot of the candied citron. > > Gail

Haven't seen a reply to this and I guess it would depend on what year he wrote the recipe or I would think that with the other citron that he used he did not use a lot of the candied citron. Gail

<<The famous people may get embalmed in Germany. Because there grave will stay for a long time.>> But nobody will see them down in the earth <vbg>. No they are not. By the way, nowadays about 50 percent (my rough guess) of the people are cremated anyway. _________________________ Heinz L. Zulauf Flotowstrasse 9 D-64287 Darmstadt Germany e-mail: [email protected] Visit my Private Homepage "The Classical Music Site" http://myweb.vector.ch/zulauf _________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katharina Hines" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] graves in Germany > The famous people may get embalmed in Germany. Because there grave will stay > for a long time. > In my home town there were still graves from the 1800's. > I can remember they talked about it to remove it because there was no space. > Even now some graves are only keep for 5 years. If the family like to keep > it longer they have to pay a fee. > A grave in Germany is different as in the States. > Here in the States you have a plot with a marker or stone. > In Germany is like a small flower-bed. You plant it with flowers in the > spring, than you plant new flowers in the beginning of the summer > and then in the fall it is covered with fir. There always real flowers on > the grave. > So long there are flowers on the graves you have to water it in the summer > time every evening. It is work there to keep up the grave. > When the other family members pass away, who will take care of the grave > then? If the grave has no care and no one is renew the lease. They do away > with it. I pay still for my Parents grave side in Germany and I have > a flower shop taking care of the grave. One of this day I am not going to be > there, then the grave is gone too. > > Katharina > > > > > > > > >Hi, > >I just joined this very informative list since I am just beginning a > >geneological search for Schaefer roots. 32 years ago I went to > >Witterschlick (a suburb of Bonn) with my family. We looked at graves > >there and didn't find a single relative. Now I know why! > > > >How long has Germany used this method of turning graves? When did > >embalming stop, were embalming methods ever used? > > > >Thanks! > >Sue Schafer > >(I just found out the original spelling two weeks ago.) > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com >

Greetings Listers, When in Germany, while walking around a pedestrian only area in the city center, I was told that the cobblestone walkways were made with old granite gravestones cut into squares of about 4 X 4 inches square. They certainly looked like this could be true. Various sections had matching squares but the color changed in areas.... as you might see in different colored grave markers. Does anyone have other information on this...?? Is this a valid use of recycled granite grave markers in Germany/ Europe...?? Thanks, Mary Lynn Axtman

thank you for sharing these pictures! Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: John Blankenbaker <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:25 PM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] Photos of German Cemeteries > I have some photos of German cemeteries posted on the 'net. > Go to http://www.germanna.com/ > and then scroll down to "German Photos" > > Look in Rödgen and Gemmingen for examples. > John Blankenbaker > http://www.germanna.com/ > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~george/johnsgermnotes/germhis1.html > http://www.inficad.com/~genelea/gerhist/gerindex.html >

Dick - I would be very interested in seeing your photos. Diane ----- Original Message ----- From: dick <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Flowers / Decoration Day > Just a thought ... if anyones interested, I could put some photos of > German / Austrian grave sites I took while I was there in the late > 70's. > > Let me know .. and if there's enough interest, I'll set it up > > Dick S. > > > > >

I have some photos of German cemeteries posted on the 'net. Go to http://www.germanna.com/ and then scroll down to "German Photos" Look in Rödgen and Gemmingen for examples. John Blankenbaker http://www.germanna.com/ http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~george/johnsgermnotes/germhis1.html http://www.inficad.com/~genelea/gerhist/gerindex.html

I have read somewhere that illegitimacy wasn't always a sign of moral failing. In some areas of Germany, people weren't allowed to get married unless they had enough money. You can understand how a pregnancy could occur when two people in love aren't allowed to marry. I don't, however, know the time period so I'm not sure if it falls into the Napoleanic era or not. Suzanne Hill