Hi list: When I arrived in NY at JFK in 1964 around Christmas time, I missed my holidays right away. So I quickly shopped for tree candle holders in the German section at 86th St. To this day I use them and live candles every year and put on a German Heilig Abend at my house, pretty much according to my tradition. No tree until Xmas Eve. I do the 4 weeks advent wreath routine first, then on the 4th of advent get the tree, cut our own or purchase it. Still use German tinsel, the leaded kind, send over by my sister. In my community in Kingston, a Lutheran Church has a German service. We also have many stores selling German goodies including advent calendars, Christ Stollen, Lebkuchen, Pfeffernuesse, etc. The tree remains up until Jan. 6th, Holy Three Kings. In my house back in Germany my father was the tree decorator, later the oldest (me) was permitted to participate also. My sister in Hessen keeps the same routine, no one sees the tree until it's done and the Bescherung (gift-giving) starts on Xmas Eve (Holy-Eve) The tree is part of the surprise. My adult children and I enjoy it this way, and are looking forward to it, we try to keep the commercial stuff out as much as is possible. I must admit though, being able to order gifts over the Internet is a very convenient way. To all of you, a happy Advent time. Regards, Ingrid in Kingston. IGF

Two of the churches with bones in glass caskets were at the Benedictine Monastery in Ulm, Germany and the Benedictine Monastery in Einsiedeln, Switzerland. I was fascinated by such a thing. I understand that in Dublin there are "saints" almost totally intact due to lack of humidity. Jerilyn Jerilyn Lappin Koskan Cook Co., Illinois [email protected] FTM user BREWER-Daniel Belmont, OH, Northumberland, Indiana and Jefferson, PA DAVIS/DAVIDSON-Marium/Mary b1803 Bucks, PA Mother Rachel Greene DUSATKO-Barbara, Anton late 1800s Butler, NE DYE-William, David, Daniel in Monroe, OH early 1800s. FISHER-Joseph, b abt 1805 OH, last Morgan, OH 1850. Wife Judith Lappin. Children John, Knight, Elizabeth, Thomas, Hannah, Mary, Rachel, Ruth GRAY-Ogden b 1850 Morgan, OH, d Fulton, IL. Children - Ogden, Lafayette, Mary A., Cornelius, Elizabeth, Rachel GREENE-Rachel, b abt 1770, Bucks, PA HANNA-Archibald, d 1793 Westmoreland, PA Children Hugh, William, Hannah, Mary (wed Robert Williams) KIRK-Elizabeth, Quaker, daughter Joseph Kirk/Judith Knight, wed Robert Lappin abt 1790. Chester & Fayette, PA Belmont, OH KOSKAN-Vaclav, b 1850s Czechoslovakia d Butler, NE LAPPIN-PA and OH late 1700s/1800s LEAK/LEEK-MD & Eastern, OH in late 1700s and 1800s MITCHELL-Thomas Mitchell, b 1770s Greene, PA -d Monroe, OH. Daughter Maria wed William Dye. MONROE-Nicholas Monroe, b PA, died Belmont, OH early 1850s. Children Curtis, William, John, Samuel, Mary (Hendershot), Eleanor (Maring), Rebecca (Murphy), Miller, George, Richard. MONTGOMERY-Daniel, d 1842 Vinton, OH Family to Wayne, IL Wife Alice Lappin, Children William, Mariah, John, Elizabeth, Rachel, Letticia, Ruth, Euphemia OATES-Sarah Elizabeth born Lewis, WV, adopted Samuel McCluster - to Decatur, KS Parents supposedly Elizabeth Puffenbarger/Benjamin Oates SLUSHER-Frederick, b PA, lived Monroe, OH, d Wayne, IL SMITH-Aaron 1755/Anna Foster Bucks, PA Children John, Amos, Hannah, Samuel, Charles, Mary STARBUCKS-John and Ann Lappin of Belmont, OH STARKEY - b 1810 PA, wed Belmont, OH TODD - Wm. & Rachel Lappin, d late 1800s Morgan, OH WADSWORTH-Alcinda, Martha, Wm., Rachel, Emily, Ruth b Belmont, OH

When i was a child, we would visit my grandparents and celebrate on Christmas Eve. My brother and cousins and I would have to go into the kitchen and wait to hear the cow bell that would be rung when Santa (my grandfather) came into the house -- and then we would go upstairs and dance by the tree (I don;t remember to what -- too young to remember if candles or not , but the tree was already up and located in a screened in porch off the living room and was only lit up when "Santa came") I too, have no interest in putting up my tree before Christmas Eve. I usually buy it a day or 2 before and get the largest tree I can find (I have a cathedral ceiling) so 13 - 15 feet does me fine, except it's getting harder and harder to find a tree that late. My son's come over with their wives and children and we decorate the tree before opening presents. I now have started to put the lights up before they come and some of the ornaments because it gets too late for the my grandchildren who are under 5 years old. When my children were young I would let them take a nap and put up and decorate the tree so that it would be a surprise and magical when they woke up. I never knew this was a custom, it was just how I felt about Christmas. When my children didn't take naps anymore then I celebrated on Christmas Day and I would decorate the tree while they slept so that they would wake up to Santa having brought the tree and presents. Children have so much today that all this is taken for granted. And having the tree up for 2 or 3 weeks takes from the excitement and special moment of the occasion -- I think. Claire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heinz L. Zulauf" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Real Candles <<Heinz you live in Germany, let us know what you do on Christmas evening, or a story what come to mind, from other Christmas evenings.>> Katharina, your description is as good as it can be. It's so typical that there isn't very much to add. The procedure you describe used to be the same when I was a child (must be centuries ago). The husband and the children used to sit around somewhere in the bedroom (or any other room a family might have had) and the wife used to prepare the tree in the living room. We didn't have candies on the tree (may be we couldn't afford it), and some the ornaments must have been at least one hundred years old. Electric candles just didn't exist but we had a lot of silvery lametta (angels' hair) and wooden ornaments. We used to go to the Christmas service at around 5 p.m. By the way, the whole procedure is still the same, noew as our children have left and live in their own homes. My wife and I still have a smallish Christmas tree with real candles and lametta and my sons come to see us in the afternoon and celebrate Christmas Eve with us. The Christmas Dinner habits have changed a bit since money is no longer at short supply. We now use to have a Swiss meat fondue instead of "Frankfurter" or "Wiener", but other than this most of the traditions have survived. Any more questions? Heinz _________________________ Heinz L. Zulauf Flotowstrasse 9 D-64287 Darmstadt Germany e-mail: [email protected] Visit my Private Homepage "The Classical Music Site" http://myweb.vector.ch/zulauf _________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katharina Hines" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Real Candles The town I visit last, in Hessen, they had real candles on the Christmas tree in church for the Christmas service. As a child our church had two very big Christmas trees in the Church. Each one had real candles on them. There were 3 Christmas services in the evening and one at midnight. Before each service all new candle would be placed on the tree. My family also has real candles on the christmas tree. In the States you put a tree up around Thanksgiving. In Germany you don't buy the tree till a few days before Christmas. As a child , I was told ' stay in your room' from late afternoon till Christmas eve, because the Christ-child( Christkind) will come tonight. With out you knowing, your parents prepare the Christmas tree (Weihnachtsbaum0.The Ornaments varies from one household to an other. Ranging from home-made, all-natural and bought ornaments. We always had candy on the tree, the candy we could eat off the tree, till the tree came down. We would call it "Plündern " After sun set we would go the Church service. After we came home, we had to wait, till all the candles on the christmas tree where lit. Then a little bell would ring, and we could enter the Gute Stube (living room). The family sings Christmas carols ,read the Christmas story, or read Christmas poems. Then the Bescherung (gift opening) got started. After that we would eat the dinner. Some families eat the dinner before the Bescherung. Heinz you live in Germany, let us know what you do on Christmas evening, or a story what come to mind, from other Christmas evenings. Katharina >In Germany our friends don't decorate their tree until Christmas Eve and >they >do use real candles. Remember they are using beeswax candles which burn >very >slowly and don't drip much. They also only put about 12 candles on a tree >and someone is in the room at all times when they are lit. Jerilyn > >Jerilyn Lappin Koskan >Cook Co., Illinois >[email protected] >FTM user > >BREWER-Daniel Belmont, OH, Northumberland, Indiana and Jefferson, PA >DAVIS/DAVIDSON-Marium/Mary b1803 Bucks, PA Mother Rachel Greene >DUSATKO-Barbara, Anton late 1800s Butler, NE >DYE-William, David, Daniel in Monroe, OH early 1800s. >FISHER-Joseph, b abt 1805 OH, last Morgan, OH 1850. Wife Judith Lappin. >Children John, Knight, Elizabeth, Thomas, Hannah, Mary, Rachel, Ruth >GRAY-Ogden b 1850 Morgan, OH, d Fulton, IL. Children - Ogden, Lafayette, >Mary A., Cornelius, Elizabeth, Rachel >GREENE-Rachel, b abt 1770, Bucks, PA >HANNA-Archibald, d 1793 Westmoreland, PA Children Hugh, William, Hannah, >Mary >(wed Robert Williams) >KIRK-Elizabeth, Quaker, daughter Joseph Kirk/Judith Knight, wed Robert >Lappin >abt 1790. Chester & Fayette, PA Belmont, OH >KOSKAN-Vaclav, b 1850s Czechoslovakia d Butler, NE >LAPPIN-PA and OH late 1700s/1800s >LEAK/LEEK-MD & Eastern, OH in late 1700s and 1800s >MITCHELL-Thomas Mitchell, b 1770s Greene, PA -d Monroe, OH. Daughter Maria >wed William Dye. > >MONROE-Nicholas Monroe, b PA, died Belmont, OH early 1850s. Children >Curtis, >William, John, Samuel, Mary (Hendershot), Eleanor (Maring), Rebecca >(Murphy), >Miller, George, Richard. >MONTGOMERY-Daniel, d 1842 Vinton, OH Family to Wayne, IL Wife Alice Lappin, >Children William, Mariah, John, Elizabeth, Rachel, Letticia, Ruth, Euphemia >OATES-Sarah Elizabeth born Lewis, WV, adopted Samuel McCluster - to >Decatur, >KS Parents supposedly Elizabeth Puffenbarger/Benjamin Oates >SLUSHER-Frederick, b PA, lived Monroe, OH, d Wayne, IL >SMITH-Aaron 1755/Anna Foster Bucks, PA Children John, Amos, Hannah, Samuel, >Charles, Mary >STARBUCKS-John and Ann Lappin of Belmont, OH >STARKEY - b 1810 PA, wed Belmont, OH >TODD - Wm. & Rachel Lappin, d late 1800s Morgan, OH >WADSWORTH-Alcinda, Martha, Wm., Rachel, Emily, Ruth b Belmont, OH > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

I would love to see the German and Austrian graves sites as well!!! Tammy

The closest that I could find re translation for genadig is "gnadig" (umlaut over the a) meaning merciful or kind. The stem word is the noun "gnade" which means grace, favour, pardon, clemency, mercy, kindness. Elsa Kahler [email protected] wrote: > This was played as the Offertory at my Dad's church last weekend. I can > translate all but one word so it doesn't make any sense to me. Help, please. > > "Es woll uns Gott genadig sein" by J.C. Bach > > Thanks in advance. Linda > [email protected]

The story about the German cemeteries is true - true - true. We lived in Buettleborn for 10 years and the it seemed to be a very personal thing to visit the graves of loved ones. In fact one of the rituals at the gravesite was to rake about the perimeter. This would cause any foot traffic to leave footprints. So - visitors could walk through the cemetery and glance down the rows, which ones had been raked in the last two days. This means so and so is not tending their grave. My wife religiously visited the graves of her parents at least twice a week and more often in summer and especially on holidays. She would fuss over the grave, wipe off the stone, water the flowers, and rake the surrounding area about 18 inches wide. Today, in Charlotte, NC., she does the same thing for our son.

The Christmas Dinner > habits have changed a bit since money is no longer at short supply. We now > use to have a Swiss meat fondue instead of "Frankfurter" or "Wiener", but > other than this most of the traditions have survived. > Any more questions? > Heinz, What is a Swiss meat fondue? Joy

Katharina, some people get their Christmas trees up at Thanksgiving here, but not all of us are so early! I think it all comes from the holidays being so "consumer-oriented" these days. The stores have Christmas things on the shelves even before Thanksgiving, now. My parents used to make us wait on the staircase, with the door closed, on Christmas Eve for Santa Claus to come--an American twist to the German tradition, I guess! We always had our famiily celebration on Christmas Eve, German style. Dorie ----- Original Message ----- From: Katharina Hines <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Real Candles > The town I visit last, in Hessen, they had real candles on the Christmas > tree in church for the Christmas service. > As a child our church had two very big Christmas trees in the Church. > Each one had real candles on them. > There were 3 Christmas services in the evening and one at midnight. > Before each service all new candle would be placed on the tree. > > My family also has real candles on the christmas tree. > In the States you put a tree up around Thanksgiving. > In Germany you don't buy the tree till a few days before Christmas. > As a child , I was told ' stay in your room' from late afternoon till > Christmas eve, because the Christ-child( Christkind) will come tonight. > With out you knowing, your parents prepare the Christmas tree > (Weihnachtsbaum0.The Ornaments varies from one household to an other. > Ranging from home-made, all-natural and bought ornaments. > We always had candy on the tree, the candy we could eat off the tree, till > the tree came down. We would call it "Plündern " > After sun set we would go the Church service. > After we came home, we had to wait, till all the candles on the christmas > tree where lit. Then a little bell would ring, and we could enter the Gute > Stube (living room). > The family sings Christmas carols ,read the Christmas story, or read > Christmas poems. Then the Bescherung (gift opening) got started. > After that we would eat the dinner. > Some families eat the dinner before the Bescherung. > Heinz you live in Germany, let us know what you do on Christmas evening, > or a story what come to mind, from other Christmas evenings. > > Katharina > > > >In Germany our friends don't decorate their tree until Christmas Eve and > >they > >do use real candles. Remember they are using beeswax candles which burn > >very > >slowly and don't drip much. They also only put about 12 candles on a tree > >and someone is in the room at all times when they are lit. Jerilyn > > > >Jerilyn Lappin Koskan > >Cook Co., Illinois > >[email protected] > >FTM user > > > >BREWER-Daniel Belmont, OH, Northumberland, Indiana and Jefferson, PA > >DAVIS/DAVIDSON-Marium/Mary b1803 Bucks, PA Mother Rachel Greene > >DUSATKO-Barbara, Anton late 1800s Butler, NE > >DYE-William, David, Daniel in Monroe, OH early 1800s. > >FISHER-Joseph, b abt 1805 OH, last Morgan, OH 1850. Wife Judith Lappin. > >Children John, Knight, Elizabeth, Thomas, Hannah, Mary, Rachel, Ruth > >GRAY-Ogden b 1850 Morgan, OH, d Fulton, IL. Children - Ogden, Lafayette, > >Mary A., Cornelius, Elizabeth, Rachel > >GREENE-Rachel, b abt 1770, Bucks, PA > >HANNA-Archibald, d 1793 Westmoreland, PA Children Hugh, William, Hannah, > >Mary > >(wed Robert Williams) > >KIRK-Elizabeth, Quaker, daughter Joseph Kirk/Judith Knight, wed Robert > >Lappin > >abt 1790. Chester & Fayette, PA Belmont, OH > >KOSKAN-Vaclav, b 1850s Czechoslovakia d Butler, NE > >LAPPIN-PA and OH late 1700s/1800s > >LEAK/LEEK-MD & Eastern, OH in late 1700s and 1800s > >MITCHELL-Thomas Mitchell, b 1770s Greene, PA -d Monroe, OH. Daughter Maria > >wed William Dye. > > > >MONROE-Nicholas Monroe, b PA, died Belmont, OH early 1850s. Children > >Curtis, > >William, John, Samuel, Mary (Hendershot), Eleanor (Maring), Rebecca > >(Murphy), > >Miller, George, Richard. > >MONTGOMERY-Daniel, d 1842 Vinton, OH Family to Wayne, IL Wife Alice Lappin, > >Children William, Mariah, John, Elizabeth, Rachel, Letticia, Ruth, Euphemia > >OATES-Sarah Elizabeth born Lewis, WV, adopted Samuel McCluster - to > >Decatur, > >KS Parents supposedly Elizabeth Puffenbarger/Benjamin Oates > >SLUSHER-Frederick, b PA, lived Monroe, OH, d Wayne, IL > >SMITH-Aaron 1755/Anna Foster Bucks, PA Children John, Amos, Hannah, Samuel, > >Charles, Mary > >STARBUCKS-John and Ann Lappin of Belmont, OH > >STARKEY - b 1810 PA, wed Belmont, OH > >TODD - Wm. & Rachel Lappin, d late 1800s Morgan, OH > >WADSWORTH-Alcinda, Martha, Wm., Rachel, Emily, Ruth b Belmont, OH > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

In Czechoslovakia there are two churches known as bone churches. Hear there is one outside of Rome somewhere also. They dug up the cemeteries to make more room and put the bones in the space under the church, basement or whatever you want to call it. They were piled there for years and then some monk or priest took all the bones and decorated the basement of the church making religious artifacts out of the bones. Was quite a site. Had seen the bones piled high with skulls on top in the catacombs of Paris but this was surely different. I find this interesting, but sure wouldn't be doing it myself. I also saw many old churches where the older tombstones were leaned around the outside of the church, or mounted on walls inside the church or sometimes leaned against the walls of the church yard. Jerilyn

<<In Germany our friends don't decorate their tree until Christmas Eve and they do use real candles. Remember they are using beeswax candles which burn very slowly and don't drip much. They also only put about 12 candles on a tree and someone is in the room at all times when they are lit.>> So do we. _________________________ Heinz L. Zulauf Flotowstrasse 9 D-64287 Darmstadt Germany e-mail: [email protected] Visit my Private Homepage "The Classical Music Site" http://myweb.vector.ch/zulauf _________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 11:22 PM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] Real Candles > In Germany our friends don't decorate their tree until Christmas Eve and they > do use real candles. Remember they are using beeswax candles which burn very > slowly and don't drip much. They also only put about 12 candles on a tree > and someone is in the room at all times when they are lit. Jerilyn > > Jerilyn Lappin Koskan > Cook Co., Illinois > [email protected] > FTM user > > BREWER-Daniel Belmont, OH, Northumberland, Indiana and Jefferson, PA > DAVIS/DAVIDSON-Marium/Mary b1803 Bucks, PA Mother Rachel Greene > DUSATKO-Barbara, Anton late 1800s Butler, NE > DYE-William, David, Daniel in Monroe, OH early 1800s. > FISHER-Joseph, b abt 1805 OH, last Morgan, OH 1850. Wife Judith Lappin. > Children John, Knight, Elizabeth, Thomas, Hannah, Mary, Rachel, Ruth > GRAY-Ogden b 1850 Morgan, OH, d Fulton, IL. Children - Ogden, Lafayette, > Mary A., Cornelius, Elizabeth, Rachel > GREENE-Rachel, b abt 1770, Bucks, PA > HANNA-Archibald, d 1793 Westmoreland, PA Children Hugh, William, Hannah, Mary > (wed Robert Williams) > KIRK-Elizabeth, Quaker, daughter Joseph Kirk/Judith Knight, wed Robert Lappin > abt 1790. Chester & Fayette, PA Belmont, OH > KOSKAN-Vaclav, b 1850s Czechoslovakia d Butler, NE > LAPPIN-PA and OH late 1700s/1800s > LEAK/LEEK-MD & Eastern, OH in late 1700s and 1800s > MITCHELL-Thomas Mitchell, b 1770s Greene, PA -d Monroe, OH. Daughter Maria > wed William Dye. > > MONROE-Nicholas Monroe, b PA, died Belmont, OH early 1850s. Children Curtis, > William, John, Samuel, Mary (Hendershot), Eleanor (Maring), Rebecca (Murphy), > Miller, George, Richard. > MONTGOMERY-Daniel, d 1842 Vinton, OH Family to Wayne, IL Wife Alice Lappin, > Children William, Mariah, John, Elizabeth, Rachel, Letticia, Ruth, Euphemia > OATES-Sarah Elizabeth born Lewis, WV, adopted Samuel McCluster - to Decatur, > KS Parents supposedly Elizabeth Puffenbarger/Benjamin Oates > SLUSHER-Frederick, b PA, lived Monroe, OH, d Wayne, IL > SMITH-Aaron 1755/Anna Foster Bucks, PA Children John, Amos, Hannah, Samuel, > Charles, Mary > STARBUCKS-John and Ann Lappin of Belmont, OH > STARKEY - b 1810 PA, wed Belmont, OH > TODD - Wm. & Rachel Lappin, d late 1800s Morgan, OH > WADSWORTH-Alcinda, Martha, Wm., Rachel, Emily, Ruth b Belmont, OH > >

Sue, you are right in everything you said. a) the origin of Dionis is Dionysos, the Greek God of Wine. b) there is a christian origin which is Dionysos of Alexandria, a bishop of the third century. c) the name, though not that common, was used quite regularly before the 20th century. d) it is nearly extinct now d) Bonn is not really a grape growing area but is not that far north of the most famous German wine area, the Rheingau. _________________________ Heinz L. Zulauf Flotowstrasse 9 D-64287 Darmstadt Germany e-mail: [email protected] Visit my Private Homepage "The Classical Music Site" http://myweb.vector.ch/zulauf _________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Schafer" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 10:16 PM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] First Name Dionis > My ggrandfather's name was Johann Dionis Schaefer (from Prussia, Rhineland, Bonn, suburb of Witterschlick). Born in 1821 Witterschlick, He was a teacher of music at Bonn University. Although Dionis (or Dionysius) is an unusual name nowadays was it once common? Has anyone seen it very often? It IS separate and unrelated to the name Dennis, isn't it? > Thanks, Sue > (As a wine lover, I'd like to imagine that he was named after the Greek God of Wine, but there is probably a Catholic saint somewhere named Dionysius. Was the Bonn area a grape growing area? surely its too cold up there.. sorry for my dumb questions.) > >

I have a book on Switzerland from turn of the century that indicated the dire health hazards due to lack of use of sufficient water as well as cost of water for families. It seems that in Switzerland, there was maybe 10 times the amount of water available. Also within this chapter, it was mentions the abundance of illegitimate children that were left on doorsteps as people were too poor to feed them and care for them. If anyone is interested -- I have transcribed this chapter into a Word document and can either email or post. I also had been told by a genealogist in Switzerland that the many children that died close to birth or at birth -- was due to the lack of sanitary conditions that we have today -- such as dirt floors in their homes. etc. It is amazing to think that this still occurs today for a multitude of reasons. The outbreak of a form of bubonic plague in Navaho country was due to the warm weather and abundance of mice which left mice droppings on the "dirt" floors of some of the hogans. In West Africa, the concept of having many children -- because they can work and help the family -- without thought that you need to feed and clothe all these children -- so many children also left home to find jobs or beg or whatever to survive and perhaps to contribute to the family. My grandmother, who was born in Bavaria, left home when she was 13 or 14 to attend Sunday School and the rest of the time apprentice to become a domestic. I was told that this was very common for children to leave home and go out on their own at that age. Her father died when she was 5 years old and the family was very poor and went to the potato fields to glean what was left after the harvest. Claire ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Koch" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 10:04 PM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] social decay after Napoleon | I did some work and got the statistics to document my impression - illegitimacy rose after 1810 in both of the German villages that I looked at. It seems to me that infant mortality rose as well, but I don't have the numbers on that. Also, to my annoyance, the handwriting also got much worse after 1810. | Perhaps there are other explanations for these trends, but the only significant change I could think of was the activities of Napoleon. Anyway, I raise the question in case anyone has information or a theory. | | | village of Weigheim | | before after | | year # of births # illegitimate # illegitimate # births year | | 1780 22 1 2 19 1820 | 1781 17 1 3 22 1821 | 1782 15 2 1 19 1822 | 1783 11 0 1 14 1823 | 1784 21 1 7 35 1824 | 1785 15 2 2 14 1825 | 1786 16 0 5 20 1826 | 1787 16 1 2 15 1827 | 1788 14 2 6 21 1828 | 1789 19 4 3 21 1829 | 1790 17 1 5 11 1830 | 1791 17 1 2 24 1831 | 1792 16 2 5 19 1832 | 1793 17 3 | | | village of Durchhausen | | before after | | year # of births # illegitimate # illegitimate # births year | | 1780 21 0 4 29 1820 | 1781 15 0 5 28 1821 | 1782 28 0 4 23 1822 | 1783 8 0 1 20 1823 | 1784 21 0 2 23 1824 | 1785 17 1 1 19 1825 | 1786 25 0 3 19 1826 | 1787 11 0 4 28 1827 | 1788 21 1 2 19 1828 | 1789 18 0 5 28 1829 | 1790 14 2 4 22 1830 | 1791 20 1 | 1792 19 1 | 1793 15 1 | | | | Maybe, I should look at the number of marriages in those years. It could be a result of war casualties creating a shortage of potential husbands. The same explanation might account for the infant mortality, a loss of workers leads to a loss of income and an increase in poverty, and that poverty falls hardest on the newborns. As far as handwriting goes, again, it could be that the people are spending too much time studying war to learn proper penmanship. | Has anybody seen this in other areas? These villages were far away from any battles. The only casualties would be young men drafted into Napoleon's armies, and I do not know how much of that was done. Probably those battle deaths would not be very well documented. | | Thomas Koch | |

The Recipes are wonderful. Thanks. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike and Dorie Brennecke" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Comments > Gail, my Mom survived WWII and came here to the States in 1954. Even in the > early 1960's, if a plane flew low over our house, she would sometimes go run > for cover in the garage before she realized it wasn't what she thought it > was! Dorie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gail Meyer Kilgore <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 12:28 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] Comments > > > > Hi, > > > > I guess my 'blah' comment the other day about the airplanes and antique > > plane club was not received all that well. My comments were referring not > > to the club but to the type of WW II plane that we have discussed > previously > > on this mail list. The goose bumps were the shivers that I get when I > hear > > the planes. Growing up near a military camp in IL and hearing the planes > as > > a child and knowing the purpose of those planes, still has an effect on me > > and I was in the US and so I know what effect those planes had on other > > members of this mail list who were not from the States. I was just making > a > > comment that "they are back". And, an addition to a previous discussion. > > > > > > Gail > >

Gail, my Mom survived WWII and came here to the States in 1954. Even in the early 1960's, if a plane flew low over our house, she would sometimes go run for cover in the garage before she realized it wasn't what she thought it was! Dorie ----- Original Message ----- From: Gail Meyer Kilgore <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 12:28 PM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] Comments > Hi, > > I guess my 'blah' comment the other day about the airplanes and antique > plane club was not received all that well. My comments were referring not > to the club but to the type of WW II plane that we have discussed previously > on this mail list. The goose bumps were the shivers that I get when I hear > the planes. Growing up near a military camp in IL and hearing the planes as > a child and knowing the purpose of those planes, still has an effect on me > and I was in the US and so I know what effect those planes had on other > members of this mail list who were not from the States. I was just making a > comment that "they are back". And, an addition to a previous discussion. > > > Gail

I always liked this quotation attributed to W.C. Fields: "Who stole the cork out of my lunch?" Fits him to a "T", doesn't it? Dorie ----- Original Message ----- From: ROY SCHMIDT <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-LIFE] Flowers / Decoration Day > Mind if I inject a little humor? > > Years ago, W. C. Fields bought a plot in Forest Lawn Cemetery. For > years after, he was in a constant battle with cemetery management. He > would plant tomatoes , in the plot, and they would make him take them > out. He would argue that he bought the plot, but it was to no avail. > > This is true. The story of his epitaph reading, "On the whole, I > would rather be here than in Philadelphia, " is false. > > Roy Schmidt > > >>> <[email protected]> 11/30/00 04:01PM >>> > I walked through a few cemeteries while visiting Germany during the > summer > months. I was astonished to see what Katharina described as little > flower > gardens, and many people pruning, weeding & watering them. They were > > absolutely beautiful. > > I guess the closest thing Americans might come to it is our old > fashioned > decoration day. Both of my mother's parents' people have family > cemeteries > that are still maintained in North Carolina, and they have an annual > > decoration day. On that day, the family members, who still live near > by, > gather to rake the winter's debris, clean the stones and put new, but > > unfortunately, plastic flowers across the plots. I wonder if this is > a > result of the original decoration day for the union soldiers > following the > Civil War - oops, I digress. > > I've often that of developing a garden plot for Grandfather's grave > in that > family cemetery, much like the ones I saw in his native country. The > family > would probably think nutty! > > Ginny

[email protected] wrote: > > > Anyone have something else / different...?? > > Mary Lynn Axtman > [email protected] It may be relevant, but then maybe not. On Mackinac Island in the late 1700s and early 1800s, the Catholic church there was a daughter of Ste Anne's parish in Detroit (once known as La Cite d'Etroit). The parish priest had a devil(?) of a time to travel the 300 miles with regularity. So marriages, births, deaths, and other matters requiring official ritual were performed (or not) by local deacons or elders entrusted with the assignment. When the priest arrived, all these matters were then attested before him, he legitimized them, entered the dates, and signed the register along with the witnesses (if they could read and write). Accordingly SOMETIMES, sequential events, such as marriage, births, and deaths may be assigned the same date. It gives a scandalous appearance to us busybodies reading the record 200 years later, but although there may have been the occasional misbehavior, most families were law-abiding and morally upright. It is difficult for me to think that there may have been similar circumstances on the Continent (too few priests riding huge circuits arriving in parishes annually or biennially) in the Napoleonic era, but isn't it possible? If there was no one who could read or write in the vicinity at the time of the event, how would a date be recallable when the good padre arrived? With ol' Bonaparte blustering around disrupting travel and daily life in nearly every quarter, could the circuit riders not have had their troubles too? BTW, Ste Anne's was a French Catholic enterprise. Hope this helps. Stan from Livonia, MI

In Germany our friends don't decorate their tree until Christmas Eve and they do use real candles. Remember they are using beeswax candles which burn very slowly and don't drip much. They also only put about 12 candles on a tree and someone is in the room at all times when they are lit. Jerilyn Jerilyn Lappin Koskan Cook Co., Illinois [email protected] FTM user BREWER-Daniel Belmont, OH, Northumberland, Indiana and Jefferson, PA DAVIS/DAVIDSON-Marium/Mary b1803 Bucks, PA Mother Rachel Greene DUSATKO-Barbara, Anton late 1800s Butler, NE DYE-William, David, Daniel in Monroe, OH early 1800s. FISHER-Joseph, b abt 1805 OH, last Morgan, OH 1850. Wife Judith Lappin. Children John, Knight, Elizabeth, Thomas, Hannah, Mary, Rachel, Ruth GRAY-Ogden b 1850 Morgan, OH, d Fulton, IL. Children - Ogden, Lafayette, Mary A., Cornelius, Elizabeth, Rachel GREENE-Rachel, b abt 1770, Bucks, PA HANNA-Archibald, d 1793 Westmoreland, PA Children Hugh, William, Hannah, Mary (wed Robert Williams) KIRK-Elizabeth, Quaker, daughter Joseph Kirk/Judith Knight, wed Robert Lappin abt 1790. Chester & Fayette, PA Belmont, OH KOSKAN-Vaclav, b 1850s Czechoslovakia d Butler, NE LAPPIN-PA and OH late 1700s/1800s LEAK/LEEK-MD & Eastern, OH in late 1700s and 1800s MITCHELL-Thomas Mitchell, b 1770s Greene, PA -d Monroe, OH. Daughter Maria wed William Dye. MONROE-Nicholas Monroe, b PA, died Belmont, OH early 1850s. Children Curtis, William, John, Samuel, Mary (Hendershot), Eleanor (Maring), Rebecca (Murphy), Miller, George, Richard. MONTGOMERY-Daniel, d 1842 Vinton, OH Family to Wayne, IL Wife Alice Lappin, Children William, Mariah, John, Elizabeth, Rachel, Letticia, Ruth, Euphemia OATES-Sarah Elizabeth born Lewis, WV, adopted Samuel McCluster - to Decatur, KS Parents supposedly Elizabeth Puffenbarger/Benjamin Oates SLUSHER-Frederick, b PA, lived Monroe, OH, d Wayne, IL SMITH-Aaron 1755/Anna Foster Bucks, PA Children John, Amos, Hannah, Samuel, Charles, Mary STARBUCKS-John and Ann Lappin of Belmont, OH STARKEY - b 1810 PA, wed Belmont, OH TODD - Wm. & Rachel Lappin, d late 1800s Morgan, OH WADSWORTH-Alcinda, Martha, Wm., Rachel, Emily, Ruth b Belmont, OH

John, Have very much enjoyed the photos and the work involved in cataloging them. Hope I will be able to find my ancestors birth place and see what life was like there. B. J. Dunham Surname: Hanselman, Easterday http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=beejd ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Blankenbaker" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:25 PM Subject: [GERMAN-LIFE] Photos of German Cemeteries > I have some photos of German cemeteries posted on the 'net. > Go to http://www.germanna.com/ > and then scroll down to "German Photos" > > Look in Rödgen and Gemmingen for examples. > John Blankenbaker > http://www.germanna.com/ > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~george/johnsgermnotes/germhis1.html > http://www.inficad.com/~genelea/gerhist/gerindex.html > >

Some of the grave stones are resurfaced, and sold again. You can sell the old stones back, to the company who sells the graves stones. If you live in Germany you don't think any think out it. It is just a way of life. A lot of Germans are cremated. Katharina > >Greetings Listers, > >When in Germany, while walking around a pedestrian >only area in the city center, I was told that the cobblestone >walkways were made with old granite gravestones cut into >squares of about 4 X 4 inches square. They certainly looked like >this could be true. Various sections had matching squares >but the color changed in areas.... as you might see in >different colored grave markers. > >Does anyone have other information on this...?? Is this >a valid use of recycled granite grave markers in Germany/ >Europe...?? > >Thanks, > >Mary Lynn Axtman > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

It depents on the cook. Some people don't like citron. Katharina > >Hi! Hope someone can answer this question for me. My husband's >grandfather >was a baker. It has been a tradition in the Schreiber family that they >bake >the Christmas stollen. (Grandpa Paul was from Gersdorf bei Chemnitz -Karl >Marx Stadt). Anyway, the recipe he used called for 10¢ worth of citron, >candied orange peel and candied lemon peel. How much citron would this be? > >Thanks if anyone can help me on this. > >Coradean Czeschin Naylor > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com