I just checked the Meyer's on an offchance and found Gross Butzig, Kreis Flatow in Brandenburg. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dieter Taube <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 2:49 PM Subject: [GERMANKING] Re: Gross Buetzin and Azelshof [email protected] wrote: > > Hello Dieter, Don, Pat, Curt? and listmembers, > > First, let me thank you all for working on this with me. I hope this topic > is not now boring several of you on the list! It appears there are a few > scenarios being put forward as possible answers for finding these two towns. > > 1) Gross Buetzin - in the former Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin in > today's Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. Azelshof as an "unknown" but with three > possible closeby names: Amalienhof, Annenhof and Axelshof. Today I spoke with a few authorities in the area of Gro_-B|tzin. Of Azelshof no one ever heard. You said that your great-grandfather is born in Prussia and not in Mecklenburg. It is naturally well possible that there was still another Gross-Buetzin in East Germany which today is Polish area. Maybe in Pomerania, eastern Brandenburg or West Prussia. I will try to find a few books in which I learn more about it. A woman in an office promised me to check if there are old recordings, in which Ernst Witt could be registered. I should phone and ask next week again, whether she found somewhat. Perhaps we are lucky with this. > 2) No Gross Buetzin - but rather go with "Gross Buelten" (southeast of > Hannover and west of Braunschweig). This would make it the former Kingdom of > Hannover. Azelshof is again an "unknown" but there is an "Asel" 10 miles > from Gross Buelten. Don't believe. > 3) Gross Buetzin (now spelled "Gross-Butzin") - again in the Mecklenburg > area - then with the JewishGen shtetl seeker and the Daitch-Mokotoff Soundex > system - get "Eichelshof" for the Azelshof - and thus find it in > Baden-Wurttenberg near the Neckar River. Surely not. The name "Gro_-B|tzin" is typically for north east Germany. The areas northeasterly the Elbe river were inhabited some centuries long by Slavic people. After the year 1000 (approx.) the land became German and Danish and it was slowly germanized. Therefore place-names are often of Slavic source; one recognizes it at name endings like ...in (see Berlin). I cannot imagine that You will detect a place named "Gro_-B|tzin" or alike in central or southern Germany. Those names completely clearly belong to Mecklenburg or Prussia. > 4) "Butzen" in Brandenburg - and "nothing close to Azelshof" nearby. Why "Butzen" if You have "Gro_-B|tzin" ? (By the way: can You read the book _ and the 'Umlaut' | ?) > 5) And then of course there is the map program (maps.excite.com) that > wrongly told me that both town names not only exist, but indiscriminately > placed them in the middle of the country - leading me to the postings about > "Thuringia".!! (as Dieter pointed out, any town name it doesn't recognize, > it simply places "there"). > > A thought - where is that "GEOS" program again? I could try both names in > that and see what it finds too... > > It's looking to me like Gross Buetzin in MS is the likely place to start - > and it matches "exactly" to what the parish registers said. (with the umlaut > over the u of course, instead of my ue written in instead). Then, that > "Axelshof" Dieter mentioned as one possible nearby location is really "close" > in spelling to the "Azelshof". Not sure if it is close "by sound". Yes, only the consonant is different. > Dieter, might I take you up on your offer to call Gross Buetzin tomorrow and > see what they think a likely "Azelshof" might be? Please let me know if this > is a toll call of any kind for you - so I can reimburse any costs you have to > place a call. There are no mentionable costs. Let me know, if I can help You anytime by telephone calls or what ever here in Germany. > As for specific names/dates you asked about - they would be: > 1) For Gross Buetzin: Ernst WITT - born 08 Oct 1854 > 2) For Azelshof: Maria W KRUEGER - born 31 May 1859. Family says her > father: Christian F Carl KRUEGER was born 23 April 1824. (married to a > Sophia HIllman?) > > Ernst & Maria's birthdates are from their US death certificates and therefore > are not yet "proven" until the actual birth records are found and Maria's > father's birthdate comes "from family" so I don't really know if it is > accurate or not. All noted. > (Again, Dieter, please contact me privately if you run into any costs on this > so I can compensate you....) > > I find Maria's siblings Hannah, Fred. and Whilamena here in the USA also, but > have never found the parents, so don't know if they left DEU or not.... > > debbie > (One good thing from all this - I went to my basic Encyclopedia Britannica > last night and found a _lot_ of information! Page 38 to page 180 and a great > overview to help my general understanding as I move more and more into > research there...) I know that feeling. A last hint: Take a look at the web site of Karin Schoepke: http://www.on-line.de/~karin.schoepke/ She knows very much about the genealogy of Northern Germany and seems to be very cooperatively. Dieter ______________________________