Hi! Have been lurking and am learning a lot from this list -thank you. I am very new to German research(plus I don't know the language.) Tonight, a wonderful "cousin" gave me a bunch of information on my great grandmothers' family. It seems that great grandmother and her older brother were both illegitimate births, then the parents married. The parents went on to have a number of other children. I just wonder why the first two were illegitimate? In my Scottish research, I have found there is the tradition of "hand-fasting". Which basically means that the couple are committed to one another, but for lack of a clergyman or civil registrar - are not formally married. Usually there is only one child born before the marriage takes place. Is there a similar practice in Germany in the 1860's? Thank you for any insight into German life. Sue De Haas Dsjk2716@aol.com Rootsweb Sponsor Searching: BACHMANN & CHRIST - Freien Seen; KUFS - Leipzig; SCHAEFER -Jauer (Silesia)