I am quite sure of my father - my grandmother (the Wintra, Winter, Winters, eta) family came from Vesele, Bohemia, Czech and several surrounding villages in 1778.  But my father - my grandfather (the Neckar lineage ), I am not sure.  All that I know is John Neckar (my gr-gr-father) came through New York S tate to Wisconsin around 1854.  I sometimes wonder if the Neckar were actually of German decent, and not Slavic. Dan Nechkash ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <birchbaylady@gmail.com> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 4:49:48 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] 1929/30 Czech Census! Czech and German are two entirely different languages.  Czech's base roots are Slavic and similar to Polish and Russian.  German has its base in Germanic language roots, like Austrian, Swiss, and is related to all Scandinavian languages and German dialects.  If your ancestral family residing in Bohemia spoke both languages, they were bilingual.  You spoke either German or Czech in Bohemia. The Czechs referred to their home language as "Bohemian" and the Germans from Bohemia referred to their home dialect "Bohemian" when they were away from home and lived in America.  So I hope that this will make you  aware that your family spoke two entirely different language,  and now you have to find written records in either language to identify their ethnicity. Aida ----------------------------------------------- On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:34 PM, <nechkash@comcast.net> wrote: > > > Hello Aida, > > > > My father was born as a second-generation US citizen in Wisconsin, but > didn't speak English until he went to grade school (about 1931).  The > > family and all the local's spoken only the native tongue (Bohemian).   He > and my Aunt Mary always claimed they also understand German because > > it was similar enough to the Bohemian language?  Is this the case? > Thanks, > > > > Daniel Nechkash > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Aida Kraus" <birchbaylady@gmail.com> > To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 3:50:38 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] 1929/30 Czech Census! > > I do not know what part the Census played in the expulsion except that the > individual resident had to decide on his ethnic preference.  Generally, you > were a Czech when you spoke the Czech language at home, and consequently > you > were German if you spoke German. But that in itself is totally false, > because families were blended there since the early times when the area was > settled by tribes and later when civilization made an impact, like during > the reign of Karl IV (1316-1378) who was the Bohemian King of mixed > marriage > himself.  His father was a Luxemburger, his mother Elizabeth of Bohemia is > claimed to be Czech, but her mother was Judith of Habsburg. Their home > language was German and French. Their son Karl IV's first wife was the > daughter of the French King and could not speak Czech, so their family > spoke > German at home, his next two wives were Germans and his last wife was from > Poland.  The claim to Slavic is a strong as the claim to German and > separating the two had no advantage to either side. So.....  as these > families were intermingled, so was the population and one simply spoke the > language of the majority of the local population.  You will find totally > German villages within Czech territory, you will find Czechs living in > German territories and so they spoke whatever language was spoken there and > this has NOTHING whatsoever to do with their ethnic background.  The only > place where there was a clear distinction between Czech and German was in > the Egerland, because that particular area belonged historically to Bavaria > before it was given as a loan-security to the Bohemian crown. The > Wittelsbacher needed money to consolidate their Bavarian Kingdom and gave > up > the Egerland for money they desperately needed to keep their other borders > protected. In the Egerland, therefore, they spoke an Upper Frankish, and > this is very old dialect an quite distinct from the other German patios > spoken elsewhere.  This upper Frankish dialect is still spoken in Bayreuth, > Marktredwitz etc. along the North Western border of the Czech Republic. >  That language has nothing to do with the Saxon dialect which is spoken > along the northern mountain range called Kruzne Hory now, and was called > "Erzgebirge" throughout history.  It is a fact that the Egerland was never > rescued by Bavaria in repaying that loan and so it never got out of hock; >  but this in itself was never perceived as necessary, because the King of > Bohemia was - in fact - the Roman Kaiser of the German Nations which > included all the Germanic lands, and on top of this, the capital of the > Egerland, namely the town of Eger (now Cheb) was a German Reichsstadt like > Nuremberg,  with the same legal rights.  The division between Czech and > German was never an issue until other nations had an interest to sow the > seeds of discontent for their own political profits.  The Slavic movement > in > the Habsburg empire did not make an impact until 1866 with the political > movement of Panslavism. Before that, all ethnic groups, i.e. Austrians, > Hungarians, Romanians, part of the Ukraine, Serbs. Croats, Slovaks, > Galician > Poles, Moravians, Bohemians and Tyrolians all came to America under an > Austrian passport.  And at times it also included Belgium, Luxemburg, > Alsace > and Lorraine. They all belonged to the same motherland who happened to have > German as their administrative language, because their capital was Vienna. > The international language was French.  So, you can see that their modern > aim of a United Europe, is about as close to what the Austrian Hungarian > Monarchy was to begin with. >      The way I can explain it and to paint a picture of what it was like to > live in Austria Hungary just compare it to Canada. There you  have English > speaking, French speaking and many native Nations speaking their various > dialects as well as Esquimos ...... and they also live in separate areas, > just as it was in Austria Hungary. So now you know how it was in Austria > Hungary for your ancestors, and that it was the AREA where you lived that > guided the language spoken there.  The time has finally come that we do > away > with this "ethnic" thing.  In all truth it is totally meaningless.  We are > people who have happily melted here on American soil, so where is this > difference as a people??? >      I will tell you where, in nothing but the nostalgia of an old song in > a > familiar language which you have heard at your mother's breast.   And that > is worth sharing! >    Aida > > ------------------------------------------- > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Biddy Orr <biddyt4@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > > > Aida - I would be grateful if you could provide an answer to this > question, > > please? > > > > > > > > What part did the 1929/30 Census play in the expulsion of the Germans > from > > Czechoslovakia after World War 11. I understand it was to do with > > 'language' > > -  the 'mother' tongue? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Biddy Orr > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message