/ Want to contribute?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II ______ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:00 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Expulsion discussions > Example expulsion discussions: > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AExpulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II/Archive_10 > > > > _______ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue > 109 > > >> Hi Brandt, >> >> There are many books, papers, etc. on the subject. It is critical >> to read information from all perspectives: expellee and expellee >> organizations, Czech point-of-view, etc. >> >> Anybody have recommendations about references which have a >> "neutral" bias? >> >> ________ >> >> Lavrentiy >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandt Gibson" <ironhide781@hotmail.com> >> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue >> 109 >> >> >>> >>> I only learned of the expulsion recently through this mailing list. >>> Are there any books on the expulsion? My ancestors lived in the >>> Rosshaupt/Strobl/Zirk area, so anything about that area would be of >>> interest to me, before or after the expulsion. Thanks, Brandt >>> > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com >>>> Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 >>>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:49:19 -0600 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) >>>> 2. Malinak from Halenkov (dcuillard@aol.com) >>>> 3. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (fslocum@accelplus.net) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:49:46 -0400 >>>> From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >>>> Message-ID: <820E72FB59024BADB2A2712499002536@user45c476a8b6> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>> >>>> Marg and Frank, >>>> >>>> I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, >>>> very, >>>> very, very, etc. small number of people who do that. >>>> >>>> ________ >>>> >>>> Lavrentiy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Marg McEuen >>>> To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> >>>> >>>> I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and >>>> Aida. I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal >>>> Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near >>>> Lestkov) and sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far >>>> because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, >>>> too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. >>>> for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on >>>> around them. >>>> >>>> None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I >>>> do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out >>>> what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My >>>> paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was >>>> just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her >>>> about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very >>>> much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, >>>> as >>>> her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the USA by >>>> 1887. >>>> >>>> I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and >>>> your personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of >>>> the >>>> history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so >>>> much >>>> for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg >>>> McEuen >>>> >>>> --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net >>>> <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family >>>> activities, and >>>> like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the >>>> source. When it >>>> crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes >>>> more difficult. >>>> >>>> I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations >>>> prior. I also know >>>> there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and >>>> witnessed his will. >>>> But what happened to them from 1870 on? >>>> >>>> A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village >>>> near >>>> Karlsbad and >>>> took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone >>>> except for flowers, >>>> grasses and a well spot. >>>> >>>> In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there >>>> an >>>> see it for >>>> myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and >>>> the >>>> other for his >>>> grave marker. >>>> >>>> Frank Heidl Slocum >>>> Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl >>>> >>>> > / >>>> > Not many people are interested in serious historical >>>> and genealogical >>>> > research. Many people have a passing interest, but >>>> they >>>> don't get >>>> > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just >>>> want to punch a >>>> > name in a computer database and get their genealogy >>>> back >>>> to Adam and >>>> > Eve. >>>> > >>>> > ______ >>>> > >>>> > Laurence >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Aida Kraus >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> expulsion >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, >>>> because ancestors >>>> > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion >>>> lists, court >>>> > documents, witness reports, property records are all >>>> part >>>> of this and >>>> > present valuable information material for genealogical >>>> research. If >>>> > you do not know history, how can you possibly find >>>> your >>>> roots? The >>>> > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter >>>> how >>>> long it takes. >>>> > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply >>>> could not find a >>>> > link to a family member. The person she was looking >>>> for >>>> "did not >>>> > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was >>>> tenacious. >>>> In the end she >>>> > found out why he did not exist in any records of her >>>> family. ...... >>>> > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. >>>> > So, I guess, we have to get our head around >>>> these >>>> "unpleasant >>>> > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the >>>> second world >>>> > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be >>>> a >>>> one sided >>>> > deal, my friends! >>>> > It hits home, when a transgression highly >>>> censured is returned by >>>> > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It >>>> makes >>>> us look >>>> > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know >>>> that we >>>> > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. >>>> Genocide is >>>> > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we >>>> will find >>>> > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR >>>> HISTORY >>>> > Aida >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>>> <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > / >>>> > >>>> > Hello Aida, >>>> > >>>> > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" >>>> existed, but a small >>>> > number of people read the literature. Not many people >>>> are >>>> > interested in the past. >>>> > >>>> > _______ >>>> > >>>> > Laurence >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Aida Kraus >>>> > >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> expulsion >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published >>>> in >>>> the Holocaust >>>> > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg >>>> trials in a >>>> > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but >>>> what came >>>> > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into >>>> any >>>> press and >>>> > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is >>>> just now >>>> > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part >>>> of >>>> history. >>>> > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not >>>> more so. >>>> > Aida >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > / >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Do data exist for the number of Germans >>>> who >>>> resided in the >>>> > places >>>> > that you described who either joined or were >>>> conscripted in Nazi >>>> > military and they themselves committed >>>> attrocities? Any memoirs >>>> > or >>>> > letters of admission or regret on what they or >>>> Germany did? >>>> > >>>> > _____ >>>> > >>>> > Lavrentiy >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> >>>> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >>>> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> expulsion >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > This is a witness report of people who have >>>> gone through the >>>> > cruelty >>>> > > of >>>> > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a >>>> document called >>>> > "Whitebook" >>>> > > and >>>> > > contains legal witness records kept in the >>>> files at Bonn by the >>>> > > German >>>> > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. >>>> However, they should >>>> > have >>>> > > published it as part of truthful reporting of >>>> history after the >>>> > > homeless >>>> > > had declared their Charter. You will find >>>> that >>>> charter on the >>>> > link >>>> > > listed >>>> > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us >>>> Germans who have lost >>>> > their >>>> > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled >>>> persons and their >>>> > deaths >>>> > > have >>>> > > never been fully established. They were >>>> living >>>> for centuries (in >>>> > some >>>> > > cases >>>> > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, >>>> Lithuania, >>>> > Estonia, >>>> > > Latvia, >>>> > > Ukraine, the different states of the former >>>> Yugoslavia, >>>> > Czechoslovakia >>>> > > and >>>> > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass >>>> transports, mass >>>> > > executions, >>>> > > rapes and sadistic tortures between >>>> 1945-1947, >>>> up to two years >>>> > after >>>> > > the >>>> > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are >>>> found from time to >>>> > time >>>> > > even >>>> > > now at construction excavations but creates >>>> just a minimum of >>>> > > publicity, >>>> > > because it was so horrendous that even the >>>> victims would rather >>>> > > forget. >>>> > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the >>>> date of the >>>> > Charter.... >>>> > > just >>>> > > 5 years after the war when wound of our >>>> losses >>>> were still fresh: >>>> > > >>>> http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 >>>> > > Aida >>>> > > >>>> > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, >>>> <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > >> Aida, >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I found this while researching family >>>> members >>>> from Freiwaldau. >>>> > What >>>> > >> is >>>> > >> your opinion of this. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding >>>> propaganda and would >>>> > like to >>>> > >> know what's what. Thanks. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Cathy >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > >> ------------------------------- >>>> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> email to >>>> > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with >>>> the >>>> word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > >> without >>>> > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of >>>> the >>>> message >>>> > >> >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> email to >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the >>>> word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the >>>> body >>>> of the message >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> email to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> message >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >>>> to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> message >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' without >>>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:55:55 -0400 (EDT) >>>> From: dcuillard@aol.com >>>> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov >>>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Message-ID: <8CF2C027534F63C-8B4-EB1@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the >>>> Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. >>>> Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he >>>> and his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Donna >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 3 >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) >>>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <49414.97.97.3.169.1341852546.squirrel@secure.accelplus.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 >>>> >>>> Lavrentiy, I consider this curious effort the worlds largest jigsaw >>>> puzzle. It is in my basic curiosity make up. Sometimes I find a >>>> piece and >>>> know it fits someplace but must find the adjoining piece first. >>>> This >>>> puzzle is a 360 degree puzzle. >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> >>>> > Marg and Frank, >>>> > >>>> > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, >>>> > very, very, >>>> > very, etc. small number of people who do that. >>>> > >>>> > ________ >>>> > >>>> > Lavrentiy >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Marg McEuen >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank >>>> > and >>>> > Aida. >>>> > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, >>>> > Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and >>>> > sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of >>>> > health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try >>>> > to >>>> > find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as >>>> > many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around >>>> > them. >>>> > >>>> > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but >>>> > I >>>> > do try >>>> > to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what >>>> > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My >>>> > paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was >>>> > just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her >>>> > about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would >>>> > very >>>> > much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one >>>> > aunt, >>>> > as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the >>>> > USA by 1887. >>>> > >>>> > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and >>>> > your >>>> > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the >>>> > history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so >>>> > much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. >>>> > Marg >>>> > McEuen >>>> > >>>> > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net >>>> > <fslocum@accelplus.net> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >>>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family >>>> > activities, and >>>> > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the >>>> > source. >>>> > When it >>>> > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all >>>> > becomes >>>> > more >>>> > difficult. >>>> > >>>> > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations >>>> > prior. I >>>> > also know >>>> > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and >>>> > witnessed >>>> > his will. >>>> > But what happened to them from 1870 on? >>>> > >>>> > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village >>>> > near >>>> > Karlsbad and >>>> > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone >>>> > except >>>> > for flowers, >>>> > grasses and a well spot. >>>> > >>>> > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there >>>> > an see >>>> > it for >>>> > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and >>>> > the >>>> > other for his >>>> > grave marker. >>>> > >>>> > Frank Heidl Slocum >>>> > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl >>>> > >>>> > > / >>>> > > Not many people are interested in serious >>>> > historical >>>> > and >>>> > genealogical >>>> > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but >>>> > they don't >>>> > get >>>> > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They >>>> > just >>>> > want to >>>> > punch a >>>> > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy >>>> > back to >>>> > Adam and >>>> > > Eve. >>>> > > >>>> > > ______ >>>> > > >>>> > > Laurence >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: Aida Kraus >>>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> > expulsion >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, >>>> > because >>>> > ancestors >>>> > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion >>>> > lists, >>>> > court >>>> > > documents, witness reports, property records are all >>>> > part of >>>> > this and >>>> > > present valuable information material for >>>> > genealogical >>>> > research. If >>>> > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find >>>> > your >>>> > roots? The >>>> > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter >>>> > how long >>>> > it takes. >>>> > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who >>>> > simply >>>> > could >>>> > not find a >>>> > > link to a family member. The person she was looking >>>> > for "did >>>> > not >>>> > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was >>>> > tenacious. In >>>> > the end she >>>> > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her >>>> > family. >>>> > ...... >>>> > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. >>>> > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around >>>> > these >>>> > "unpleasant >>>> > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the >>>> > second >>>> > world >>>> > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to >>>> > be >>>> > a one >>>> > sided >>>> > > deal, my friends! >>>> > > It hits home, when a transgression highly >>>> > censured is >>>> > returned by >>>> > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It >>>> > makes us >>>> > look >>>> > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we >>>> > know >>>> > that we >>>> > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. >>>> > Genocide is >>>> > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that >>>> > we >>>> > will >>>> > find >>>> > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR >>>> > HISTORY >>>> > > Aida >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >>>> > > wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > / >>>> > > >>>> > > Hello Aida, >>>> > > >>>> > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" >>>> > existed, but >>>> > a small >>>> > > number of people read the literature. Not many people >>>> > are >>>> > > interested in the past. >>>> > > >>>> > > _______ >>>> > > >>>> > > Laurence >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: Aida Kraus >>>> > > >>>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; >>>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> > expulsion >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely >>>> > published >>>> > in the >>>> > Holocaust >>>> > > papers and many other documentation from the >>>> > Nuremberg >>>> > trials >>>> > in a >>>> > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... >>>> > but >>>> > what >>>> > came >>>> > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into >>>> > any press >>>> > and >>>> > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It >>>> > is >>>> > just >>>> > now >>>> > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part >>>> > of >>>> > history. >>>> > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not >>>> > more so. >>>> > > Aida >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence >>>> > Krupnak >>>> > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > / >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Do data exist for the number of Germans >>>> > who >>>> > resided in the >>>> > > places >>>> > > that you described who either joined or were >>>> > conscripted in Nazi >>>> > > military and they themselves committed >>>> > attrocities? >>>> > Any memoirs >>>> > > or >>>> > > letters of admission or regret on what they >>>> > or >>>> > Germany >>>> > did? >>>> > > >>>> > > _____ >>>> > > >>>> > > Lavrentiy >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> >>>> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> > expulsion >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > This is a witness report of people who have >>>> > gone >>>> > through the >>>> > > cruelty >>>> > > > of >>>> > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a >>>> > document >>>> > called >>>> > > "Whitebook" >>>> > > > and >>>> > > > contains legal witness records kept in the >>>> > files at >>>> > Bonn by the >>>> > > > German >>>> > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. >>>> > However, >>>> > they should >>>> > > have >>>> > > > published it as part of truthful reporting >>>> > of >>>> > history after the >>>> > > > homeless >>>> > > > had declared their Charter. You will find >>>> > that >>>> > charter on the >>>> > > link >>>> > > > listed >>>> > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us >>>> > Germans >>>> > who have lost >>>> > > their >>>> > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of >>>> > expelled >>>> > persons >>>> > and their >>>> > > deaths >>>> > > > have >>>> > > > never been fully established. They were >>>> > living for >>>> > centuries (in >>>> > > some >>>> > > > cases >>>> > > > as natives) in countries which is now >>>> > Poland, >>>> > Lithuania, >>>> > > Estonia, >>>> > > > Latvia, >>>> > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former >>>> > Yugoslavia, >>>> > > Czechoslovakia >>>> > > > and >>>> > > > others, and their deaths were caused by >>>> > mass >>>> > transports, mass >>>> > > > executions, >>>> > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between >>>> > 1945-1947, up to >>>> > two years >>>> > > after >>>> > > > the >>>> > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people >>>> > are >>>> > found >>>> > from time to >>>> > > time >>>> > > > even >>>> > > > now at construction excavations but >>>> > creates >>>> > just a >>>> > minimum of >>>> > > > publicity, >>>> > > > because it was so horrendous that even the >>>> > victims >>>> > would rather >>>> > > > forget. >>>> > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice >>>> > the >>>> > date of >>>> > the >>>> > > Charter.... >>>> > > > just >>>> > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our >>>> > losses were >>>> > still fresh: >>>> > > > >>>> > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 >>>> > > > Aida >>>> > > > >>>> > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, >>>> > <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: >>>> > > > >>>> > > >> Aida, >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> I found this while researching family >>>> > members from >>>> > Freiwaldau. >>>> > > What >>>> > > >> is >>>> > > >> your opinion of this. >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding >>>> > propaganda >>>> > and would >>>> > > like to >>>> > > >> know what's what. Thanks. >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> Cathy >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > >> ------------------------------- >>>> > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send >>>> > an >>>> > email >>>> > to >>>> > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with >>>> > the word >>>> > > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > >> without >>>> > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of >>>> > the >>>> > message >>>> > > >> >>>> > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send >>>> > an >>>> > email >>>> > to >>>> > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with >>>> > the >>>> > word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > > without the quotes in the subject and the >>>> > body of >>>> > the message >>>> > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> > email to >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> > message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> > email >>>> > to >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> > message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' without >>>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without >>>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. >>>> >>>> To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an >>>> email >>>> to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. >>>> >>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com >>>> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and >>>> the >>>> body of the >>>> email with no additional text. >>>> >>>> >>>> End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 >>>> *********************************************** >>> >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To me this seems like a lot of "chat" but very little historical evidence, I think the You tube presentations are more factual. Aida On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net>wrote: > > > / > > Want to contribute?: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II > > ______ > > Lavrentiy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:00 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Expulsion discussions > > > > Example expulsion discussions: > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AExpulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II/Archive_10 > > > > > > > > _______ > > > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:32 AM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue > > 109 > > > > > >> Hi Brandt, > >> > >> There are many books, papers, etc. on the subject. It is critical > >> to read information from all perspectives: expellee and expellee > >> organizations, Czech point-of-view, etc. > >> > >> Anybody have recommendations about references which have a > >> "neutral" bias? > >> > >> ________ > >> > >> Lavrentiy > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Brandt Gibson" <ironhide781@hotmail.com> > >> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:10 PM > >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue > >> 109 > >> > >> > >>> > >>> I only learned of the expulsion recently through this mailing list. > >>> Are there any books on the expulsion? My ancestors lived in the > >>> Rosshaupt/Strobl/Zirk area, so anything about that area would be of > >>> interest to me, before or after the expulsion. Thanks, Brandt > >>> > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com > >>>> Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > >>>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:49:19 -0600 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > >>>> Today's Topics: > >>>> > >>>> 1. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) > >>>> 2. Malinak from Halenkov (dcuillard@aol.com) > >>>> 3. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (fslocum@accelplus.net) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> Message: 1 > >>>> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:49:46 -0400 > >>>> From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>>> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >>>> Message-ID: <820E72FB59024BADB2A2712499002536@user45c476a8b6> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >>>> > >>>> Marg and Frank, > >>>> > >>>> I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, > >>>> very, > >>>> very, very, etc. small number of people who do that. > >>>> > >>>> ________ > >>>> > >>>> Lavrentiy > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: Marg McEuen > >>>> To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and > >>>> Aida. I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal > >>>> Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near > >>>> Lestkov) and sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far > >>>> because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, > >>>> too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. > >>>> for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on > >>>> around them. > >>>> > >>>> None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I > >>>> do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out > >>>> what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My > >>>> paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was > >>>> just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her > >>>> about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very > >>>> much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, > >>>> as > >>>> her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the USA by > >>>> 1887. > >>>> > >>>> I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and > >>>> your personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of > >>>> the > >>>> history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so > >>>> much > >>>> for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg > >>>> McEuen > >>>> > >>>> --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net > >>>> <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family > >>>> activities, and > >>>> like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the > >>>> source. When it > >>>> crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes > >>>> more difficult. > >>>> > >>>> I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations > >>>> prior. I also know > >>>> there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and > >>>> witnessed his will. > >>>> But what happened to them from 1870 on? > >>>> > >>>> A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village > >>>> near > >>>> Karlsbad and > >>>> took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone > >>>> except for flowers, > >>>> grasses and a well spot. > >>>> > >>>> In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there > >>>> an > >>>> see it for > >>>> myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and > >>>> the > >>>> other for his > >>>> grave marker. > >>>> > >>>> Frank Heidl Slocum > >>>> Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > >>>> > >>>> > / > >>>> > Not many people are interested in serious historical > >>>> and genealogical > >>>> > research. Many people have a passing interest, but > >>>> they > >>>> don't get > >>>> > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just > >>>> want to punch a > >>>> > name in a computer database and get their genealogy > >>>> back > >>>> to Adam and > >>>> > Eve. > >>>> > > >>>> > ______ > >>>> > > >>>> > Laurence > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > From: Aida Kraus > >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>>> expulsion > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, > >>>> because ancestors > >>>> > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion > >>>> lists, court > >>>> > documents, witness reports, property records are all > >>>> part > >>>> of this and > >>>> > present valuable information material for genealogical > >>>> research. If > >>>> > you do not know history, how can you possibly find > >>>> your > >>>> roots? The > >>>> > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter > >>>> how > >>>> long it takes. > >>>> > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply > >>>> could not find a > >>>> > link to a family member. The person she was looking > >>>> for > >>>> "did not > >>>> > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was > >>>> tenacious. > >>>> In the end she > >>>> > found out why he did not exist in any records of her > >>>> family. ...... > >>>> > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > >>>> > So, I guess, we have to get our head around > >>>> these > >>>> "unpleasant > >>>> > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the > >>>> second world > >>>> > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be > >>>> a > >>>> one sided > >>>> > deal, my friends! > >>>> > It hits home, when a transgression highly > >>>> censured is returned by > >>>> > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It > >>>> makes > >>>> us look > >>>> > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know > >>>> that we > >>>> > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. > >>>> Genocide is > >>>> > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we > >>>> will find > >>>> > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR > >>>> HISTORY > >>>> > Aida > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>>> <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > / > >>>> > > >>>> > Hello Aida, > >>>> > > >>>> > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" > >>>> existed, but a small > >>>> > number of people read the literature. Not many people > >>>> are > >>>> > interested in the past. > >>>> > > >>>> > _______ > >>>> > > >>>> > Laurence > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > From: Aida Kraus > >>>> > > >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; > >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>>> expulsion > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published > >>>> in > >>>> the Holocaust > >>>> > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg > >>>> trials in a > >>>> > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but > >>>> what came > >>>> > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into > >>>> any > >>>> press and > >>>> > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is > >>>> just now > >>>> > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part > >>>> of > >>>> history. > >>>> > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not > >>>> more so. > >>>> > Aida > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > / > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > Do data exist for the number of Germans > >>>> who > >>>> resided in the > >>>> > places > >>>> > that you described who either joined or were > >>>> conscripted in Nazi > >>>> > military and they themselves committed > >>>> attrocities? Any memoirs > >>>> > or > >>>> > letters of admission or regret on what they or > >>>> Germany did? > >>>> > > >>>> > _____ > >>>> > > >>>> > Lavrentiy > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > >>>> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >>>> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>>> expulsion > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > This is a witness report of people who have > >>>> gone through the > >>>> > cruelty > >>>> > > of > >>>> > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a > >>>> document called > >>>> > "Whitebook" > >>>> > > and > >>>> > > contains legal witness records kept in the > >>>> files at Bonn by the > >>>> > > German > >>>> > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. > >>>> However, they should > >>>> > have > >>>> > > published it as part of truthful reporting of > >>>> history after the > >>>> > > homeless > >>>> > > had declared their Charter. You will find > >>>> that > >>>> charter on the > >>>> > link > >>>> > > listed > >>>> > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us > >>>> Germans who have lost > >>>> > their > >>>> > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled > >>>> persons and their > >>>> > deaths > >>>> > > have > >>>> > > never been fully established. They were > >>>> living > >>>> for centuries (in > >>>> > some > >>>> > > cases > >>>> > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, > >>>> Lithuania, > >>>> > Estonia, > >>>> > > Latvia, > >>>> > > Ukraine, the different states of the former > >>>> Yugoslavia, > >>>> > Czechoslovakia > >>>> > > and > >>>> > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass > >>>> transports, mass > >>>> > > executions, > >>>> > > rapes and sadistic tortures between > >>>> 1945-1947, > >>>> up to two years > >>>> > after > >>>> > > the > >>>> > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are > >>>> found from time to > >>>> > time > >>>> > > even > >>>> > > now at construction excavations but creates > >>>> just a minimum of > >>>> > > publicity, > >>>> > > because it was so horrendous that even the > >>>> victims would rather > >>>> > > forget. > >>>> > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the > >>>> date of the > >>>> > Charter.... > >>>> > > just > >>>> > > 5 years after the war when wound of our > >>>> losses > >>>> were still fresh: > >>>> > > > >>>> http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > >>>> > > Aida > >>>> > > > >>>> > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, > >>>> <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >>>> > > > >>>> > >> Aida, > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> I found this while researching family > >>>> members > >>>> from Freiwaldau. > >>>> > What > >>>> > >> is > >>>> > >> your opinion of this. > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding > >>>> propaganda and would > >>>> > like to > >>>> > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> Cathy > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > >> ------------------------------- > >>>> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>>> email to > >>>> > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with > >>>> the > >>>> word > >>>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > >> without > >>>> > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of > >>>> the > >>>> message > >>>> > >> > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > > ------------------------------- > >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>>> email to > >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the > >>>> word 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the > >>>> body > >>>> of the message > >>>> > > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > ------------------------------- > >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>>> email to > >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>>> 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>>> message > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > ------------------------------- > >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > >>>> to > >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>>> 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>>> message > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > ------------------------------- > >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>>> 'unsubscribe' without > >>>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> ------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> Message: 2 > >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:55:55 -0400 (EDT) > >>>> From: dcuillard@aol.com > >>>> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov > >>>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> Message-ID: <8CF2C027534F63C-8B4-EB1@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the > >>>> Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. > >>>> Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he > >>>> and his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Donna > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> Message: 3 > >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) > >>>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net > >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> Message-ID: > >>>> <49414.97.97.3.169.1341852546.squirrel@secure.accelplus.net> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > >>>> > >>>> Lavrentiy, I consider this curious effort the worlds largest jigsaw > >>>> puzzle. It is in my basic curiosity make up. Sometimes I find a > >>>> piece and > >>>> know it fits someplace but must find the adjoining piece first. > >>>> This > >>>> puzzle is a 360 degree puzzle. > >>>> > >>>> Frank > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Marg and Frank, > >>>> > > >>>> > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, > >>>> > very, very, > >>>> > very, etc. small number of people who do that. > >>>> > > >>>> > ________ > >>>> > > >>>> > Lavrentiy > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > From: Marg McEuen > >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank > >>>> > and > >>>> > Aida. > >>>> > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, > >>>> > Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and > >>>> > sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of > >>>> > health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try > >>>> > to > >>>> > find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as > >>>> > many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around > >>>> > them. > >>>> > > >>>> > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but > >>>> > I > >>>> > do try > >>>> > to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what > >>>> > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My > >>>> > paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was > >>>> > just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her > >>>> > about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would > >>>> > very > >>>> > much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one > >>>> > aunt, > >>>> > as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the > >>>> > USA by 1887. > >>>> > > >>>> > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and > >>>> > your > >>>> > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the > >>>> > history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so > >>>> > much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. > >>>> > Marg > >>>> > McEuen > >>>> > > >>>> > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net > >>>> > <fslocum@accelplus.net> > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>>> > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > >>>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family > >>>> > activities, and > >>>> > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the > >>>> > source. > >>>> > When it > >>>> > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all > >>>> > becomes > >>>> > more > >>>> > difficult. > >>>> > > >>>> > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations > >>>> > prior. I > >>>> > also know > >>>> > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and > >>>> > witnessed > >>>> > his will. > >>>> > But what happened to them from 1870 on? > >>>> > > >>>> > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village > >>>> > near > >>>> > Karlsbad and > >>>> > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone > >>>> > except > >>>> > for flowers, > >>>> > grasses and a well spot. > >>>> > > >>>> > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there > >>>> > an see > >>>> > it for > >>>> > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and > >>>> > the > >>>> > other for his > >>>> > grave marker. > >>>> > > >>>> > Frank Heidl Slocum > >>>> > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > >>>> > > >>>> > > / > >>>> > > Not many people are interested in serious > >>>> > historical > >>>> > and > >>>> > genealogical > >>>> > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but > >>>> > they don't > >>>> > get > >>>> > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They > >>>> > just > >>>> > want to > >>>> > punch a > >>>> > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy > >>>> > back to > >>>> > Adam and > >>>> > > Eve. > >>>> > > > >>>> > > ______ > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Laurence > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > > From: Aida Kraus > >>>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>>> > expulsion > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, > >>>> > because > >>>> > ancestors > >>>> > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion > >>>> > lists, > >>>> > court > >>>> > > documents, witness reports, property records are all > >>>> > part of > >>>> > this and > >>>> > > present valuable information material for > >>>> > genealogical > >>>> > research. If > >>>> > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find > >>>> > your > >>>> > roots? The > >>>> > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter > >>>> > how long > >>>> > it takes. > >>>> > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who > >>>> > simply > >>>> > could > >>>> > not find a > >>>> > > link to a family member. The person she was looking > >>>> > for "did > >>>> > not > >>>> > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was > >>>> > tenacious. In > >>>> > the end she > >>>> > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her > >>>> > family. > >>>> > ...... > >>>> > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > >>>> > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around > >>>> > these > >>>> > "unpleasant > >>>> > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the > >>>> > second > >>>> > world > >>>> > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to > >>>> > be > >>>> > a one > >>>> > sided > >>>> > > deal, my friends! > >>>> > > It hits home, when a transgression highly > >>>> > censured is > >>>> > returned by > >>>> > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It > >>>> > makes us > >>>> > look > >>>> > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we > >>>> > know > >>>> > that we > >>>> > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. > >>>> > Genocide is > >>>> > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that > >>>> > we > >>>> > will > >>>> > find > >>>> > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR > >>>> > HISTORY > >>>> > > Aida > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > >>>> > > wrote: > >>>> > > > >>>> > > / > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Hello Aida, > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" > >>>> > existed, but > >>>> > a small > >>>> > > number of people read the literature. Not many people > >>>> > are > >>>> > > interested in the past. > >>>> > > > >>>> > > _______ > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Laurence > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > > From: Aida Kraus > >>>> > > > >>>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; > >>>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>>> > expulsion > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely > >>>> > published > >>>> > in the > >>>> > Holocaust > >>>> > > papers and many other documentation from the > >>>> > Nuremberg > >>>> > trials > >>>> > in a > >>>> > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... > >>>> > but > >>>> > what > >>>> > came > >>>> > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into > >>>> > any press > >>>> > and > >>>> > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It > >>>> > is > >>>> > just > >>>> > now > >>>> > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part > >>>> > of > >>>> > history. > >>>> > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not > >>>> > more so. > >>>> > > Aida > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence > >>>> > Krupnak > >>>> > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > >>>> > > > >>>> > > / > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Do data exist for the number of Germans > >>>> > who > >>>> > resided in the > >>>> > > places > >>>> > > that you described who either joined or were > >>>> > conscripted in Nazi > >>>> > > military and they themselves committed > >>>> > attrocities? > >>>> > Any memoirs > >>>> > > or > >>>> > > letters of admission or regret on what they > >>>> > or > >>>> > Germany > >>>> > did? > >>>> > > > >>>> > > _____ > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Lavrentiy > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > >>>> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>>> > expulsion > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > This is a witness report of people who have > >>>> > gone > >>>> > through the > >>>> > > cruelty > >>>> > > > of > >>>> > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a > >>>> > document > >>>> > called > >>>> > > "Whitebook" > >>>> > > > and > >>>> > > > contains legal witness records kept in the > >>>> > files at > >>>> > Bonn by the > >>>> > > > German > >>>> > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. > >>>> > However, > >>>> > they should > >>>> > > have > >>>> > > > published it as part of truthful reporting > >>>> > of > >>>> > history after the > >>>> > > > homeless > >>>> > > > had declared their Charter. You will find > >>>> > that > >>>> > charter on the > >>>> > > link > >>>> > > > listed > >>>> > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us > >>>> > Germans > >>>> > who have lost > >>>> > > their > >>>> > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of > >>>> > expelled > >>>> > persons > >>>> > and their > >>>> > > deaths > >>>> > > > have > >>>> > > > never been fully established. They were > >>>> > living for > >>>> > centuries (in > >>>> > > some > >>>> > > > cases > >>>> > > > as natives) in countries which is now > >>>> > Poland, > >>>> > Lithuania, > >>>> > > Estonia, > >>>> > > > Latvia, > >>>> > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former > >>>> > Yugoslavia, > >>>> > > Czechoslovakia > >>>> > > > and > >>>> > > > others, and their deaths were caused by > >>>> > mass > >>>> > transports, mass > >>>> > > > executions, > >>>> > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between > >>>> > 1945-1947, up to > >>>> > two years > >>>> > > after > >>>> > > > the > >>>> > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people > >>>> > are > >>>> > found > >>>> > from time to > >>>> > > time > >>>> > > > even > >>>> > > > now at construction excavations but > >>>> > creates > >>>> > just a > >>>> > minimum of > >>>> > > > publicity, > >>>> > > > because it was so horrendous that even the > >>>> > victims > >>>> > would rather > >>>> > > > forget. > >>>> > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice > >>>> > the > >>>> > date of > >>>> > the > >>>> > > Charter.... > >>>> > > > just > >>>> > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our > >>>> > losses were > >>>> > still fresh: > >>>> > > > > >>>> > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > >>>> > > > Aida > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, > >>>> > <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > >> Aida, > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> I found this while researching family > >>>> > members from > >>>> > Freiwaldau. > >>>> > > What > >>>> > > >> is > >>>> > > >> your opinion of this. > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding > >>>> > propaganda > >>>> > and would > >>>> > > like to > >>>> > > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> Cathy > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > > >> ------------------------------- > >>>> > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send > >>>> > an > >>>> > email > >>>> > to > >>>> > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with > >>>> > the word > >>>> > > 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > > >> without > >>>> > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of > >>>> > the > >>>> > message > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > > > ------------------------------- > >>>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send > >>>> > an > >>>> > email > >>>> > to > >>>> > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with > >>>> > the > >>>> > word > >>>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > > > without the quotes in the subject and the > >>>> > body of > >>>> > the message > >>>> > > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > > ------------------------------- > >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>>> > email to > >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>>> > message > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > > ------------------------------- > >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>>> > email > >>>> > to > >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>>> > message > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > > ------------------------------- > >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>>> > 'unsubscribe' without > >>>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > ------------------------------- > >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > ------------------------------- > >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > without > >>>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to > >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > >>>> > >>>> To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an > >>>> email > >>>> to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. > >>>> > >>>> __________________________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com > >>>> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and > >>>> the > >>>> body of the > >>>> email with no additional text. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > >>>> *********************************************** > >>> > >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >