lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family activities, and like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the source. When it crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes more difficult. I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations prior. I also know there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and witnessed his will. But what happened to them from 1870 on? A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village near Karlsbad and took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone except for flowers, grasses and a well spot. In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an see it for myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and the other for his grave marker. Frank Heidl Slocum Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > / > Not many people are interested in serious historical and genealogical > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they don't get > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just want to punch a > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back to Adam and > Eve. > > ______ > > Laurence > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, because ancestors > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion lists, court > documents, witness reports, property records are all part of this and > present valuable information material for genealogical research. If > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your roots? The > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how long it takes. > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply could not find a > link to a family member. The person she was looking for "did not > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. In the end she > found out why he did not exist in any records of her family. ...... > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > So, I guess, we have to get our head around these "unpleasant > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the second world > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a one sided > deal, my friends! > It hits home, when a transgression highly censured is returned by > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes us look > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know that we > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. Genocide is > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we will find > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY > Aida > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > wrote: > > / > > Hello Aida, > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, but a small > number of people read the literature. Not many people are > interested in the past. > > _______ > > Laurence > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the Holocaust > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials in a > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what came > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any press and > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is just now > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of history. > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more so. > Aida > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > > / > > > Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the > places > that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi > military and they themselves committed attrocities? Any memoirs > or > letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? > > _____ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the > cruelty > > of > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called > "Whitebook" > > and > > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the > > German > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should > have > > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the > > homeless > > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the > link > > listed > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost > their > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their > deaths > > have > > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in > some > > cases > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, > Estonia, > > Latvia, > > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, > Czechoslovakia > > and > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass > > executions, > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years > after > > the > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to > time > > even > > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of > > publicity, > > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather > > forget. > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the > Charter.... > > just > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > > Aida > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > > > >> Aida, > >> > >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. > What > >> is > >> your opinion of this. > >> > >> > >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would > like to > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >> > >> Cathy > >> > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >> without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and Aida. I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around them. None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the USA by 1887. I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and your personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg McEuen --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family activities, and like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the source. When it crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes more difficult. I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations prior. I also know there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and witnessed his will. But what happened to them from 1870 on? A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village near Karlsbad and took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone except for flowers, grasses and a well spot. In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an see it for myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and the other for his grave marker. Frank Heidl Slocum Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > / > Not many people are interested in serious historical and genealogical > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they don't get > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just want to punch a > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back to Adam and > Eve. > > ______ > > Laurence > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, because ancestors > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion lists, court > documents, witness reports, property records are all part of this and > present valuable information material for genealogical research. If > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your roots? The > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how long it takes. > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply could not find a > link to a family member. The person she was looking for "did not > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. In the end she > found out why he did not exist in any records of her family. ...... > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > So, I guess, we have to get our head around these "unpleasant > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the second world > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a one sided > deal, my friends! > It hits home, when a transgression highly censured is returned by > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes us look > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know that we > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. Genocide is > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we will find > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY > Aida > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > wrote: > > / > > Hello Aida, > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, but a small > number of people read the literature. Not many people are > interested in the past. > > _______ > > Laurence > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the Holocaust > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials in a > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what came > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any press and > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is just now > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of history. > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more so. > Aida > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > > / > > > Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the > places > that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi > military and they themselves committed attrocities? Any memoirs > or > letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? > > _____ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the > cruelty > > of > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called > "Whitebook" > > and > > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the > > German > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should > have > > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the > > homeless > > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the > link > > listed > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost > their > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their > deaths > > have > > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in > some > > cases > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, > Estonia, > > Latvia, > > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, > Czechoslovakia > > and > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass > > executions, > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years > after > > the > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to > time > > even > > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of > > publicity, > > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather > > forget. > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the > Charter.... > > just > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > > Aida > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > > > >> Aida, > >> > >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. > What > >> is > >> your opinion of this. > >> > >> > >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would > like to > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >> > >> Cathy > >> > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >> without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message