Aida, I found the Geneva Diplomacy website, and de Zayas' personal website, but can't find any talks specifically about the German expulsion. Do you have any links to those lectures handy? thanks, Brandt > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com > Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 114 > To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:00:13 -0600 > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: mode of travel in 1859? (Aida Kraus) > 2. Literature on Expulsion (Aida Kraus) > 3. Re: Literature on Expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) > 4. Re: mode of travel in 1859? (Laurence Krupnak) > 5. Expulsion discussions (Laurence Krupnak) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 08:00:57 -0700 > From: Aida Kraus <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] mode of travel in 1859? > To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <CAPY_z9xq82EJJ5t5zu_Uem6KtrAP8DLW=dhHiZqK44z6JgZ18Q@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Yes, Gary, railroad services were available at that time of your ancestral > emigration. They started to build railroads in 1835 and it was in full > swing by 1841. Read this: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Germany > Aida > > On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:39 AM, Gary Wiltscheck <garywilt@newulmtel.net>wrote: > > > Does anyone have any idea what the mode of travel was for emigrating > > Bohemians travelling to Bremen, Germany in 1859? > > > > Could rail service have been in place by then? > > > > I've seen an early map of Europe railroads but not sure of the years. > > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, Gary Wiltscheck > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 08:09:56 -0700 > From: Aida Kraus <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Literature on Expulsion > To: GBHS <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com>, Laurence Krupnak > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > Message-ID: > <CAPY_z9wjJRn_=3oW_YJO8BVrOdauH-4vDZHGKrDNbr+KGATWjw@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I can highly recommend all the writings of this internationally trained > Diplomat: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred-Maurice_de_Zayas > <http://ww.genevadiplomacy.com/dr-alfred-de-zayas-appointed-independent-expert-promotion-democratic-and-equitable-international-ord> > Aida > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 11:32:38 -0400 > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Literature on Expulsion > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <F310B9B1FB4C4A13BB414C7D86D03B14@user45c476a8b6> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks Aida. However: > > While de Zayas' human rights publications largely reflect United Nations positions, his historical research and conclusions regarding the ethnic cleansing[54] of Germans from their native Land in East Germany and Eastern Europe at the end of World War II have given rise to controversy.[55][56][57][58 > > > Any other sources which should also be accessed? > > > > ______ > > Lavrentiy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > To: GBHS ; Laurence Krupnak > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:09 AM > Subject: Literature on Expulsion > > > I can highly recommend all the writings of this internationally trained Diplomat: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred-Maurice_de_Zayas > Aida > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 11:42:56 -0400 > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] mode of travel in 1859? > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <592B4207F65549D4835A16C95197BA7B@user45c476a8b6> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > / > > Waiting for the train: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PFlQHPuX0k&feature=relmfu > > > at the 2:00 min. mark > > ________ > > Lavrentiy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:00 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] mode of travel in 1859? > > > > Yes, Gary, railroad services were available at that time of your > > ancestral > > emigration. They started to build railroads in 1835 and it was in > > full > > swing by 1841. Read this: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Germany > > Aida > > > > On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:39 AM, Gary Wiltscheck > > <garywilt@newulmtel.net>wrote: > > > >> Does anyone have any idea what the mode of travel was for emigrating > >> Bohemians travelling to Bremen, Germany in 1859? > >> > >> Could rail service have been in place by then? > >> > >> I've seen an early map of Europe railroads but not sure of the years. > >> > >> Any help would be appreciated. > >> > >> Thanks, Gary Wiltscheck > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:00:08 -0400 > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Expulsion discussions > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <D7F63B119B9044E9977FF55CF4D4AB2C@user45c476a8b6> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > Example expulsion discussions: > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AExpulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II/Archive_10 > > > > _______ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > > > > Hi Brandt, > > > > There are many books, papers, etc. on the subject. It is critical > > to read information from all perspectives: expellee and expellee > > organizations, Czech point-of-view, etc. > > > > Anybody have recommendations about references which have a > > "neutral" bias? > > > > ________ > > > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brandt Gibson" <ironhide781@hotmail.com> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue > > 109 > > > > > >> > >> I only learned of the expulsion recently through this mailing list. > >> Are there any books on the expulsion? My ancestors lived in the > >> Rosshaupt/Strobl/Zirk area, so anything about that area would be of > >> interest to me, before or after the expulsion. Thanks, Brandt > >> > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com > >>> Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > >>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:49:19 -0600 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > >>> Today's Topics: > >>> > >>> 1. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) > >>> 2. Malinak from Halenkov (dcuillard@aol.com) > >>> 3. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (fslocum@accelplus.net) > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Message: 1 > >>> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:49:46 -0400 > >>> From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >>> Message-ID: <820E72FB59024BADB2A2712499002536@user45c476a8b6> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >>> > >>> Marg and Frank, > >>> > >>> I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, very, > >>> very, very, etc. small number of people who do that. > >>> > >>> ________ > >>> > >>> Lavrentiy > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Marg McEuen > >>> To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>> > >>> > >>> I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and > >>> Aida. I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal > >>> Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near > >>> Lestkov) and sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far > >>> because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, > >>> too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. > >>> for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on > >>> around them. > >>> > >>> None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I > >>> do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out > >>> what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My > >>> paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was > >>> just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her > >>> about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very > >>> much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, > >>> as > >>> her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the USA by > >>> 1887. > >>> > >>> I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and > >>> your personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of > >>> the > >>> history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so > >>> much > >>> for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg McEuen > >>> > >>> --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net > >>> <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > >>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > >>> > >>> > >>> lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family > >>> activities, and > >>> like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the > >>> source. When it > >>> crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes > >>> more difficult. > >>> > >>> I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations > >>> prior. I also know > >>> there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and > >>> witnessed his will. > >>> But what happened to them from 1870 on? > >>> > >>> A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village > >>> near > >>> Karlsbad and > >>> took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone > >>> except for flowers, > >>> grasses and a well spot. > >>> > >>> In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an > >>> see it for > >>> myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and > >>> the > >>> other for his > >>> grave marker. > >>> > >>> Frank Heidl Slocum > >>> Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > >>> > >>> > / > >>> > Not many people are interested in serious historical > >>> and genealogical > >>> > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they > >>> don't get > >>> > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just > >>> want to punch a > >>> > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back > >>> to Adam and > >>> > Eve. > >>> > > >>> > ______ > >>> > > >>> > Laurence > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: Aida Kraus > >>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>> expulsion > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, > >>> because ancestors > >>> > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion > >>> lists, court > >>> > documents, witness reports, property records are all > >>> part > >>> of this and > >>> > present valuable information material for genealogical > >>> research. If > >>> > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your > >>> roots? The > >>> > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how > >>> long it takes. > >>> > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply > >>> could not find a > >>> > link to a family member. The person she was looking for > >>> "did not > >>> > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was > >>> tenacious. > >>> In the end she > >>> > found out why he did not exist in any records of her > >>> family. ...... > >>> > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > >>> > So, I guess, we have to get our head around > >>> these > >>> "unpleasant > >>> > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the > >>> second world > >>> > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be > >>> a > >>> one sided > >>> > deal, my friends! > >>> > It hits home, when a transgression highly > >>> censured is returned by > >>> > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes > >>> us look > >>> > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know > >>> that we > >>> > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. > >>> Genocide is > >>> > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we > >>> will find > >>> > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR > >>> HISTORY > >>> > Aida > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>> <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > / > >>> > > >>> > Hello Aida, > >>> > > >>> > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" > >>> existed, but a small > >>> > number of people read the literature. Not many people > >>> are > >>> > interested in the past. > >>> > > >>> > _______ > >>> > > >>> > Laurence > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: Aida Kraus > >>> > > >>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; > >>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>> expulsion > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published > >>> in > >>> the Holocaust > >>> > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg > >>> trials in a > >>> > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but > >>> what came > >>> > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any > >>> press and > >>> > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is > >>> just now > >>> > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of > >>> history. > >>> > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not > >>> more so. > >>> > Aida > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > / > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Do data exist for the number of Germans who > >>> resided in the > >>> > places > >>> > that you described who either joined or were > >>> conscripted in Nazi > >>> > military and they themselves committed > >>> attrocities? Any memoirs > >>> > or > >>> > letters of admission or regret on what they or > >>> Germany did? > >>> > > >>> > _____ > >>> > > >>> > Lavrentiy > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > >>> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >>> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>> expulsion > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > This is a witness report of people who have > >>> gone through the > >>> > cruelty > >>> > > of > >>> > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a > >>> document called > >>> > "Whitebook" > >>> > > and > >>> > > contains legal witness records kept in the > >>> files at Bonn by the > >>> > > German > >>> > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. > >>> However, they should > >>> > have > >>> > > published it as part of truthful reporting of > >>> history after the > >>> > > homeless > >>> > > had declared their Charter. You will find that > >>> charter on the > >>> > link > >>> > > listed > >>> > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us > >>> Germans who have lost > >>> > their > >>> > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled > >>> persons and their > >>> > deaths > >>> > > have > >>> > > never been fully established. They were living > >>> for centuries (in > >>> > some > >>> > > cases > >>> > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, > >>> Lithuania, > >>> > Estonia, > >>> > > Latvia, > >>> > > Ukraine, the different states of the former > >>> Yugoslavia, > >>> > Czechoslovakia > >>> > > and > >>> > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass > >>> transports, mass > >>> > > executions, > >>> > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, > >>> up to two years > >>> > after > >>> > > the > >>> > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are > >>> found from time to > >>> > time > >>> > > even > >>> > > now at construction excavations but creates > >>> just a minimum of > >>> > > publicity, > >>> > > because it was so horrendous that even the > >>> victims would rather > >>> > > forget. > >>> > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the > >>> date of the > >>> > Charter.... > >>> > > just > >>> > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses > >>> were still fresh: > >>> > > > >>> http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > >>> > > Aida > >>> > > > >>> > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, > >>> <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > >> Aida, > >>> > >> > >>> > >> I found this while researching family members > >>> from Freiwaldau. > >>> > What > >>> > >> is > >>> > >> your opinion of this. > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >>> > >> > >>> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding > >>> propaganda and would > >>> > like to > >>> > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Cathy > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > >> ------------------------------- > >>> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>> email to > >>> > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the > >>> word > >>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>> > >> without > >>> > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> message > >>> > >> > >>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > > ------------------------------- > >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>> email to > >>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the > >>> word 'unsubscribe' > >>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body > >>> of the message > >>> > > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > ------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>> email to > >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> 'unsubscribe' > >>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> message > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > ------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > >>> to > >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> 'unsubscribe' > >>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> message > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > ------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> 'unsubscribe' without > >>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 2 > >>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:55:55 -0400 (EDT) > >>> From: dcuillard@aol.com > >>> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov > >>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> Message-ID: <8CF2C027534F63C-8B4-EB1@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the > >>> Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. > >>> Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he > >>> and his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. > >>> Thanks, > >>> Donna > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 3 > >>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) > >>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net > >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > >>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> Message-ID: > >>> <49414.97.97.3.169.1341852546.squirrel@secure.accelplus.net> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > >>> > >>> Lavrentiy, I consider this curious effort the worlds largest jigsaw > >>> puzzle. It is in my basic curiosity make up. Sometimes I find a > >>> piece and > >>> know it fits someplace but must find the adjoining piece first. This > >>> puzzle is a 360 degree puzzle. > >>> > >>> Frank > >>> > >>> > >>> > Marg and Frank, > >>> > > >>> > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, > >>> > very, very, > >>> > very, etc. small number of people who do that. > >>> > > >>> > ________ > >>> > > >>> > Lavrentiy > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: Marg McEuen > >>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and > >>> > Aida. > >>> > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, > >>> > Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and > >>> > sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of > >>> > health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try to > >>> > find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as > >>> > many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around > >>> > them. > >>> > > >>> > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but > >>> > I > >>> > do try > >>> > to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what > >>> > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My > >>> > paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was > >>> > just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her > >>> > about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very > >>> > much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, > >>> > as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the > >>> > USA by 1887. > >>> > > >>> > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and > >>> > your > >>> > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the > >>> > history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so > >>> > much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg > >>> > McEuen > >>> > > >>> > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net > >>> > <fslocum@accelplus.net> > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>> > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > >>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family > >>> > activities, and > >>> > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the > >>> > source. > >>> > When it > >>> > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes > >>> > more > >>> > difficult. > >>> > > >>> > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations > >>> > prior. I > >>> > also know > >>> > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and > >>> > witnessed > >>> > his will. > >>> > But what happened to them from 1870 on? > >>> > > >>> > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village > >>> > near > >>> > Karlsbad and > >>> > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone > >>> > except > >>> > for flowers, > >>> > grasses and a well spot. > >>> > > >>> > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there > >>> > an see > >>> > it for > >>> > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and > >>> > the > >>> > other for his > >>> > grave marker. > >>> > > >>> > Frank Heidl Slocum > >>> > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > >>> > > >>> > > / > >>> > > Not many people are interested in serious > >>> > historical > >>> > and > >>> > genealogical > >>> > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but > >>> > they don't > >>> > get > >>> > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just > >>> > want to > >>> > punch a > >>> > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy > >>> > back to > >>> > Adam and > >>> > > Eve. > >>> > > > >>> > > ______ > >>> > > > >>> > > Laurence > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > > From: Aida Kraus > >>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > >>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>> > expulsion > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, > >>> > because > >>> > ancestors > >>> > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion > >>> > lists, > >>> > court > >>> > > documents, witness reports, property records are all > >>> > part of > >>> > this and > >>> > > present valuable information material for genealogical > >>> > research. If > >>> > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find > >>> > your > >>> > roots? The > >>> > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter > >>> > how long > >>> > it takes. > >>> > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply > >>> > could > >>> > not find a > >>> > > link to a family member. The person she was looking > >>> > for "did > >>> > not > >>> > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was > >>> > tenacious. In > >>> > the end she > >>> > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her > >>> > family. > >>> > ...... > >>> > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > >>> > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around > >>> > these > >>> > "unpleasant > >>> > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the > >>> > second > >>> > world > >>> > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to > >>> > be > >>> > a one > >>> > sided > >>> > > deal, my friends! > >>> > > It hits home, when a transgression highly > >>> > censured is > >>> > returned by > >>> > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It > >>> > makes us > >>> > look > >>> > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know > >>> > that we > >>> > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. > >>> > Genocide is > >>> > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we > >>> > will > >>> > find > >>> > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR > >>> > HISTORY > >>> > > Aida > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > >>> > > wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > / > >>> > > > >>> > > Hello Aida, > >>> > > > >>> > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" > >>> > existed, but > >>> > a small > >>> > > number of people read the literature. Not many people > >>> > are > >>> > > interested in the past. > >>> > > > >>> > > _______ > >>> > > > >>> > > Laurence > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > > From: Aida Kraus > >>> > > > >>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; > >>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > >>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>> > expulsion > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published > >>> > in the > >>> > Holocaust > >>> > > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg > >>> > trials > >>> > in a > >>> > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but > >>> > what > >>> > came > >>> > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into > >>> > any press > >>> > and > >>> > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It > >>> > is > >>> > just > >>> > now > >>> > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part > >>> > of > >>> > history. > >>> > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not > >>> > more so. > >>> > > Aida > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>> > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > / > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > Do data exist for the number of Germans > >>> > who > >>> > resided in the > >>> > > places > >>> > > that you described who either joined or were > >>> > conscripted in Nazi > >>> > > military and they themselves committed > >>> > attrocities? > >>> > Any memoirs > >>> > > or > >>> > > letters of admission or regret on what they or > >>> > Germany > >>> > did? > >>> > > > >>> > > _____ > >>> > > > >>> > > Lavrentiy > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > >>> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >>> > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > >>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>> > expulsion > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > This is a witness report of people who have > >>> > gone > >>> > through the > >>> > > cruelty > >>> > > > of > >>> > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a > >>> > document > >>> > called > >>> > > "Whitebook" > >>> > > > and > >>> > > > contains legal witness records kept in the > >>> > files at > >>> > Bonn by the > >>> > > > German > >>> > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. > >>> > However, > >>> > they should > >>> > > have > >>> > > > published it as part of truthful reporting > >>> > of > >>> > history after the > >>> > > > homeless > >>> > > > had declared their Charter. You will find > >>> > that > >>> > charter on the > >>> > > link > >>> > > > listed > >>> > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us > >>> > Germans > >>> > who have lost > >>> > > their > >>> > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled > >>> > persons > >>> > and their > >>> > > deaths > >>> > > > have > >>> > > > never been fully established. They were > >>> > living for > >>> > centuries (in > >>> > > some > >>> > > > cases > >>> > > > as natives) in countries which is now > >>> > Poland, > >>> > Lithuania, > >>> > > Estonia, > >>> > > > Latvia, > >>> > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former > >>> > Yugoslavia, > >>> > > Czechoslovakia > >>> > > > and > >>> > > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass > >>> > transports, mass > >>> > > > executions, > >>> > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between > >>> > 1945-1947, up to > >>> > two years > >>> > > after > >>> > > > the > >>> > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people > >>> > are > >>> > found > >>> > from time to > >>> > > time > >>> > > > even > >>> > > > now at construction excavations but creates > >>> > just a > >>> > minimum of > >>> > > > publicity, > >>> > > > because it was so horrendous that even the > >>> > victims > >>> > would rather > >>> > > > forget. > >>> > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the > >>> > date of > >>> > the > >>> > > Charter.... > >>> > > > just > >>> > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our > >>> > losses were > >>> > still fresh: > >>> > > > > >>> > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > >>> > > > Aida > >>> > > > > >>> > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, > >>> > <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >>> > > > > >>> > > >> Aida, > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> I found this while researching family > >>> > members from > >>> > Freiwaldau. > >>> > > What > >>> > > >> is > >>> > > >> your opinion of this. > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding > >>> > propaganda > >>> > and would > >>> > > like to > >>> > > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> Cathy > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > > >> ------------------------------- > >>> > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send > >>> > an > >>> > email > >>> > to > >>> > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with > >>> > the word > >>> > > 'unsubscribe' > >>> > > >> without > >>> > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of > >>> > the > >>> > message > >>> > > >> > >>> > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > > > ------------------------------- > >>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>> > email > >>> > to > >>> > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with > >>> > the > >>> > word > >>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>> > > > without the quotes in the subject and the > >>> > body of > >>> > the message > >>> > > > >>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > > ------------------------------- > >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>> > email to > >>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> > message > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > > ------------------------------- > >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > >>> > to > >>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> > message > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > > ------------------------------- > >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> > 'unsubscribe' without > >>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > ------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > ------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> > without > >>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to > >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > >>> > >>> To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an email > >>> to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. > >>> > >>> __________________________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com > >>> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and > >>> the > >>> body of the > >>> email with no additional text. > >>> > >>> > >>> End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > >>> *********************************************** > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 114 > ***********************************************