Mark, as to the "cottage dweller" I need the proper title in German because this could be a wrong translation. If he is listed as Häusler on your documents, he was a house owner with small acreage. BEsides that he was most likely trained in a craft, meaning that he either worked as a journeyman for someone, or had his own craft shop in or around his house. If he is listed as "Inwohner" then that means that he either rented a flat in a house which was owned by another, or he was actually employed there with room and board. Also, a pensioned family member, like grandpa or grandma would be listed as "Inwohner" which means that they were counted in the census as living in that house. Someone listed as "Hausbesitzer" means that he was a house-owner, and if he lived in a town, he was a Burgher which had more privileged social standing and he was not a serf but a responsible to his city council. If he lived in a village and was titled "Hausbesitzer" he then owned a house with a little more land than a Häusler and would have run some sort of business out of his house, like transportation service, tanning, game warden/hunter, forestry worker, butcher, baker, shoemaker, tailor, smith, cooper, woodworker, and such, comes to mind. It was rare that a young man did not have a profession, because at least after 8 years of schooling they were enrolled in some sort of apprentice program, unless it was a firstborn son who would be the inheritor of the "Hof" - meaning the family farm. Master craftsman were certified by a "Meisterbrief" issued by their guild (Master's diploma) upon completion of a "Meisterstueck" which was a valuable piece of work in his profession and if they were not displayed at the family home business, they can be seen at the various guild's craft-museum in Europe. Every "Meister" had to own a house, because he had to provide room and board for his apprentices and journeymen. Usually those Meister-Houses were larger houses as they worked mostly their profession in the industrial part of their homes or shops, however, at critical harvest times, everyone worked in the fields, because since there were no supermarkets, all victuals had to come from the owner's garden or fields. These professions were ruled under strict supervision by their guilds, and they were standardized by law since the Middle ages and this system continues to this day, hence the high quality of European craftsmen. A craft is not learned in Vocational school in Europe, but is a three year apprentice program with hands on practical learning. Now a vocational school supports the learning of apprentices twice a week. You may want to read up on that. Rochlov seems to have a different name now and I was unable to find its German name, but it is along the Boehmerwald which is called Sumava in Czech. I have to check out Rochlov a little closer to give you a better answer. Aida On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Mark Lieber <marklieber1@gmail.com> wrote: > Aida, > > I have been following conversations on this site for several weeks. I have > found them > very informative. This particular one is of interest to me. My great > grandfather, Wenzl > Lieber was from Rochlov, Bohemia. It is just west of Plzen. I had the > opportunity > to visit the village in 2010. But the language barrier posed a BIG > problem. I did see that > there was a "castle" in this small village. Wenzl was a miner. Could it > be that this castle > was the home of a nobleman l that employed him as a miner? > > Also, his father Petr Lieber lived across the lane from him. Records > indicated that he was > a "cottage dweller". What does that actually mean? > > Thanks, > > Mark > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Go to page 367 where you can see that they have most of their Forestry > > personnel listed by name. There is one area called "Peter and Paul" and > > there may have been a farm called "Peterhof".... Also look at the names > > under "Maierhof" to possibly find this Peterhof. The Nobility ran their > > agriculture like a multiple economy and they had a large staff over > several > > very large Maierhofs which are country estates at best. They either had > it > > run by family, or they leased it out, or had a manager run it for them. > > Besides that, the nobility had industrial interests in the area, as they > > developed mining, glass blowing, porcelain factories, etc. just run it > > through the translator and you will see their revenue diversification. > > Forest and Wildlife was a HUGE resource for them in Bohemia. > > > > Link: > > > > > http://books.google.com/books?id=ugIEAAAAMAAJ&printsec=titlepage&dq=%22topografisch+statistischer%22+schematismus+des+grossgrundbesitzes+im+koenigreiche+bohmen#v=onepage&q=%22topografisch%20statistischer%22%20schematismus%20des%20grossgrundbesitzes%20im%20koenigreiche%20bohmen&f=false > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 7:23 AM, <idirlion@me.com> wrote: > > > > > Sorry, all I have is this as his occupation: > > > > > > Furstlich Schwarzenbergischer Fasanjager Zu Peterhof In Bohmen > > > > > > I understand the German. > > > > > > Does this help? > > > > > > best, > > > Paul > > > > > > On Dé Luain, 6 Feabhra, 2012, at 07:12, Aida Kraus wrote: > > > > > > > Do you know the village name where this Peterhof was located, because > > > there > > > > are several by that name? It might lead us to your family names in > > the > > > > church registers which are partially archived in the Plzn (Pilsen) > > > archives > > > > and which you can access from your home computer. > > > > Aida > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 5:20 AM, <idirlion@me.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> My great-granddad was born in Austria 1883 (Laa an der Thaya), and I > > > have > > > >> his birth record, but my family tree says that his parents came from > > > >> Bohemia (Peterhof 1826 and Budweiss 1855). > > > >> > > > >> Are any of these records online? > > > >> > > > >> Or do I need to order everything through the LDS? > > > >> > > > >> Thanks. > > > >> > > > >> Paul > > > >> Oregon > > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > >> ------------------------------- > > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without > > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >> > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Aida, I was away on business when I received this email. So, I had to go back and look at my notes at home. The person that did some research for me in the Plzen area translated the original document to read: *The church records of the family Lieber :* *The record No.1*: found out on 3rd December 2008 in the State region Archives (in following records only „SRA“) of Plzen, in the book No.32 of the parish Horni Sekyrany, on the page 92: „The date of the birth: on 12th August 1898 The date of the christening: on 13th August Baptised: Cyrill Sequens, the chaplain The name: *Theresia*, catholic, female, born in lawful wedlock The birthplace: Rochlowa # 58, in the county of Mies The midwife: Theresia Kalasch from Preheischen, tested The father: *Lieber* Wenzl from Pieska, the miner in Rochlowa # 58, the matrimonial son of deceased Petr Lieber, the peasant cottager in Pieska # 14 and of Anna Frank from Koschowitz #11, in the county of Mies. The mother: Nath Anna from Knie, the matrimonial daughter of Laurenz Nath, the woodreever in Rochlowa # 1 and of Katharina Zeidler from Knie # 14, in the county of Tuschkau The godmother: Theresie Nath, the woodreewer´s daughter of Rochlowa. „" So I was incorrect. The term was actually translated as peasant cottager. I can't put my hands on it right now. But I believe someone also referred to it as a laklander. I will send you the image of the original document directly. Thanks for your response. Mark On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> wrote: > Mark, as to the "cottage dweller" I need the proper title in German because > this could be a wrong translation. If he is listed as Häusler on your > documents, he was a house owner with small acreage. BEsides that he was > most likely trained in a craft, meaning that he either worked as a > journeyman for someone, or had his own craft shop in or around his house. > If he is listed as "Inwohner" then that means that he either rented a flat > in a house which was owned by another, or he was actually employed there > with room and board. Also, a pensioned family member, like grandpa or > grandma would be listed as "Inwohner" which means that they were counted in > the census as living in that house. > Someone listed as "Hausbesitzer" means that he was a house-owner, and > if he lived in a town, he was a Burgher which had more privileged social > standing and he was not a serf but a responsible to his city council. > If he lived in a village and was titled "Hausbesitzer" he then owned > a house with a little more land than a Häusler and would have run some sort > of business out of his house, like transportation service, tanning, game > warden/hunter, forestry worker, butcher, baker, shoemaker, tailor, smith, > cooper, woodworker, and such, comes to mind. It was rare that a young man > did not have a profession, because at least after 8 years of schooling they > were enrolled in some sort of apprentice program, unless it was a firstborn > son who would be the inheritor of the "Hof" - meaning the family farm. > Master craftsman were certified by a "Meisterbrief" issued by their > guild (Master's diploma) upon completion of a > "Meisterstueck" which was a valuable piece of work in his profession and > if they were not displayed at the family home business, they can be seen at > the various guild's craft-museum in Europe. Every "Meister" had to own a > house, because he had to provide room and board for his apprentices and > journeymen. Usually those Meister-Houses were larger houses as they worked > mostly their profession in the industrial part of their homes or shops, > however, at critical harvest times, everyone worked in the fields, because > since there were no supermarkets, all victuals had to come from the > owner's garden or fields. These professions were ruled under strict > supervision by their guilds, and they were standardized by law since the > Middle ages and this system continues to this day, hence the high quality > of European craftsmen. A craft is not learned in Vocational school in > Europe, but is a three year apprentice program with hands on practical > learning. Now a vocational school supports the learning of apprentices > twice a week. You may want to read up on that. > Rochlov seems to have a different name now and I was unable to find > its German name, but it is along the Boehmerwald which is called Sumava in > Czech. I have to check out Rochlov a little closer to give you a better > answer. > Aida > > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Mark Lieber <marklieber1@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Aida, > > > > I have been following conversations on this site for several weeks. I > have > > found them > > very informative. This particular one is of interest to me. My great > > grandfather, Wenzl > > Lieber was from Rochlov, Bohemia. It is just west of Plzen. I had the > > opportunity > > to visit the village in 2010. But the language barrier posed a BIG > > problem. I did see that > > there was a "castle" in this small village. Wenzl was a miner. Could it > > be that this castle > > was the home of a nobleman l that employed him as a miner? > > > > Also, his father Petr Lieber lived across the lane from him. Records > > indicated that he was > > a "cottage dweller". What does that actually mean? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark > > > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Go to page 367 where you can see that they have most of their Forestry > > > personnel listed by name. There is one area called "Peter and Paul" and > > > there may have been a farm called "Peterhof".... Also look at the > names > > > under "Maierhof" to possibly find this Peterhof. The Nobility ran > their > > > agriculture like a multiple economy and they had a large staff over > > several > > > very large Maierhofs which are country estates at best. They either had > > it > > > run by family, or they leased it out, or had a manager run it for them. > > > Besides that, the nobility had industrial interests in the area, as > they > > > developed mining, glass blowing, porcelain factories, etc. just run it > > > through the translator and you will see their revenue diversification. > > > Forest and Wildlife was a HUGE resource for them in Bohemia. > > > > > > Link: > > > > > > > > > http://books.google.com/books?id=ugIEAAAAMAAJ&printsec=titlepage&dq=%22topografisch+statistischer%22+schematismus+des+grossgrundbesitzes+im+koenigreiche+bohmen#v=onepage&q=%22topografisch%20statistischer%22%20schematismus%20des%20grossgrundbesitzes%20im%20koenigreiche%20bohmen&f=false > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 7:23 AM, <idirlion@me.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Sorry, all I have is this as his occupation: > > > > > > > > Furstlich Schwarzenbergischer Fasanjager Zu Peterhof In Bohmen > > > > > > > > I understand the German. > > > > > > > > Does this help? > > > > > > > > best, > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > On Dé Luain, 6 Feabhra, 2012, at 07:12, Aida Kraus wrote: > > > > > > > > > Do you know the village name where this Peterhof was located, > because > > > > there > > > > > are several by that name? It might lead us to your family names > in > > > the > > > > > church registers which are partially archived in the Plzn (Pilsen) > > > > archives > > > > > and which you can access from your home computer. > > > > > Aida > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 5:20 AM, <idirlion@me.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> My great-granddad was born in Austria 1883 (Laa an der Thaya), > and I > > > > have > > > > >> his birth record, but my family tree says that his parents came > from > > > > >> Bohemia (Peterhof 1826 and Budweiss 1855). > > > > >> > > > > >> Are any of these records online? > > > > >> > > > > >> Or do I need to order everything through the LDS? > > > > >> > > > > >> Thanks. > > > > >> > > > > >> Paul > > > > >> Oregon > > > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > >> ------------------------------- > > > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > >> > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >