Sorry, Annetka, you are wrong, the records I am working off are original German from other countries, like Hungary, Romania, and Tyrol. These are records that were microfilmed in 1939 and shared with the world archives. I agree, that the original records must remain in the place of origin and that is why microfilms are used. There are no German microfilm records originating in Bohemia available to researchers, you have to fly to Europe and travel to Pilsen to view the microfilm roll! So they exist! The LDS does not microfilm the original records!! They just purchase the rolls from the individual countries and they told me that the Czech Republic will not sell it to them. The LDS just duplicates films for distribution to their research centers and consequently to people like us for research and often there are not enough, and there is a waiting time. Aida ----------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <Anettka@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 7:34 AM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Re: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN FTM vs PAF > In a message dated 6/24/2006 6:39:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, Aida writes: > It is just > too bad that the only country not represented with microfilm availablity is > the Czech Republic and you have to hire a Czech genealogist to actually look > up the German records that should be under the ownership of the German > public and not the Czech Goverment! You can get all the Danish, Swedish, > French, Polish, English, Spanish, Italian, Swiss, German, Romanian, > Hungarian, even Russian, Chinese, Japanese and Indian records in their > handwriting..... but not the German records that are deposited in the Czech > archives. > Aida, > > If that thinking were prevelent, none of us would be able to find records for > our ancestors, since the ones for those who moved around would be sent who > knows where, and even if you knew where the family came from, the records might > be inaccessible just because you don't know where they are. For that point in > their lives, at least, finding the records would be a daunting task. And the > United States would be devoid of records, because they would not be in US but > scattered all over the world. > > While the CR may not have had records filmed by LDS, they are available to > ANYONE who wishes to see them - And don't believe ALL records even in the list > of countries you presented are filmed by LDS. They are still working on it; > however I know of many records from places I am interested in in other 'filmed' > places that haven been filmed. They reside in their rightful places; where > they were generated. LDS may film in an eccliastical archive or civil archive > covering the same region but not both and the two sources are not identical, so > many years for many places do not get filmed. Then one has to go there, or > hire research to access those records not filmed. Ya' can't except LDS to > guarantee to make the work for you easy. > > However, there are some LDS records filmed for the German settlements - by > the LDS. In WWII, Germans 'repatriated' to a German archive records from some > of German settlements in Bohemia. While in German, these records were filmed > by LDS and are available as are other records.. After the 'cold' war, or maybe > sooner, I am not sure, the records were retuned to their rightful places. > > Anettka > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To search the archives, go to: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN >

Aida Kraus <akibb1@verizon.net> wrote: There are no German microfilm records originating in Bohemia available to researchers, you have to fly to Europe and travel to Pilsen to view the microfilm roll! So they exist! Are you stating that researchers are not permitted to view the records, but anyone flying to Pilsen can view them???? This isn't what I've heard. I'm under the impression only researchers in the CZ Rep. are permitted to work with the records. Newsstand they must be licensed and taught how to handle the records for preservation purposes. I've heard comments of Czech researchers that it so hard to find much information prior to the 1500's in, what is now the Cz Rep, because very little was written down - estimated 90% of populating could neither read or write and official records were recorded in German, the language most officials knew, Hence, rewords in German.. Sir John, Earl of Berkshire What good is information if not shared with others?

Yes, until a few years ago you were able to go there and request either the record or microfilm and to the research yourself. Then they put restrictions on it and only genealogists are allowed to do the searches. In some instances they make exceptions. And this is not only for German Bohemians, but also for our Czech Bohemians, and my Czech friends are telling me that they are just as frustrated as we are when they see Skandinavians and others ordering a microfilm of their village from the LDS while they return empty handed. I actually think we should combine with the Czech List because they are running into the same problems. I guess that a combined effort would perhaps make it happen that they sell their microfilm records of the entire country to the Salt Lake City Archives. This way an old Czech Babicka or German Oma who has the time but not the money to purchase records could at least rent for $6.00 the roll of her ancestors village and use her poor old eyes to do some "work of love" for her children. Aida ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "John L. Mikeska" <jlmikeska@yahoo.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Re: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN FTM vs PAF > > > Aida Kraus <akibb1@verizon.net> wrote: There are no German microfilm > records originating in Bohemia available to researchers, you have to fly > to Europe and travel to Pilsen to view the microfilm roll! So they exist! > > Are you stating that researchers are not permitted to view the records, > but anyone flying to Pilsen can view them???? This isn't what I've heard. > I'm under the impression only researchers in the CZ Rep. are permitted to > work with the records. Newsstand they must be licensed and taught how to > handle the records for preservation purposes. I've heard comments of > Czech researchers that it so hard to find much information prior to the > 1500's in, what is now the Cz Rep, because very little was written down - > estimated 90% of populating could neither read or write and official > records were recorded in German, the language most officials knew, Hence, > rewords in German.. > > > > > Sir John, Earl of Berkshire > What good is information if not shared with others? > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN >

Aida, Thanks for the quick reply. It was six yrs ago when I was in the CZ Rep and on a tour, so didn't get to do but little researching, which was in Moravia. My cousin and I neither read CZ or German and therefore no use to even try looking at records. However, we were permitted to view the birth record of our grandfather, but wasn't able to handle the book, had to view in dim light, and not permitted to use a flash in trying to make a photo. They take extra precautions with these old records and I can respect that (may not like it <G>) Taking extra care in case some unusual flash eons (>) might damage the paper records and not discovered years from now. The CZ gov't requiring only CZ researchers to view records came about after our trip in 2000. One of the things I hated to see the CZ Rep. do. Aida Kraus <akibb1@verizon.net> wrote: Yes, until a few years ago you were able to go there and request either the record or microfilm and to the research yourself. Then they put restrictions on it and only genealogists are allowed to do the searches. In some instances they make exceptions. And this is not only for German Bohemians, but also for our Czech Bohemians, and my Czech friends are telling me that they are just as frustrated as we are when they see Skandinavians and others ordering a microfilm of their village from the LDS while they return empty handed. I actually think we should combine with the Czech List because they are running into the same problems. I guess that a combined effort would perhaps make it happen that they sell their microfilm records of the entire country to the Salt Lake City Archives. This way an old Czech Babicka or German Oma who has the time but not the money to purchase records could at least rent for $6.00 the roll of her ancestors village and use her poor old eyes to do some "work of love" for her children. Aida ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "John L. Mikeska" To: Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Re: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN FTM vs PAF > > > Aida Kraus wrote: There are no German microfilm > records originating in Bohemia available to researchers, you have to fly > to Europe and travel to Pilsen to view the microfilm roll! So they exist! > > Are you stating that researchers are not permitted to view the records, > but anyone flying to Pilsen can view them???? This isn't what I've heard. > I'm under the impression only researchers in the CZ Rep. are permitted to > work with the records. Newsstand they must be licensed and taught how to > handle the records for preservation purposes. I've heard comments of > Czech researchers that it so hard to find much information prior to the > 1500's in, what is now the Cz Rep, because very little was written down - > estimated 90% of populating could neither read or write and official > records were recorded in German, the language most officials knew, Hence, > records in German.. > > > > > Sir John, Earl of Berkshire > What good is information if not shared with others? > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To search the archives, go to: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Sir John, Earl of Berkshire What good is information if not shared with others?

I'm watching this discussion with interest and would like to offer another perspective. I have to admit to being one who prefers to get what I want for free. I'm thinking that until ~17 years ago you couldn't even go to the CR to see records in their archives. Now, as capitalism flourishes, it seems some bureaucrat has found a way to keep some folks gainfully employed (i.e. off of their welfare system) by requiring folks like me to hire a researcher (1 time) or visit their country as a tourist (4 times). Actually, I'm surprised (but pleased) that more struggling economies don't have a similar policy. When I obtained my research in '92, I also found an invitation to become an importer and US distributor for some CR crafts. (I passed on the chance to become an international mogul.) Regards, Cliff Burk Bloomington IN

Aida Kraus wrote: > > Sorry, Annetka, you are wrong, the records I am working off are original German from other countries, like Hungary, Romania, and Tyrol. These are records that were microfilmed in 1939 and shared with the world archives. I agree, that the original records must remain in the place of origin and that is why microfilms are used. There are no German microfilm records originating in Bohemia available to researchers, you have to fly to Europe and travel to Pilsen to view the microfilm roll! So they exist! Germany has to request copies of the microfilm. > The LDS does not microfilm the original records!! In the past, the LDS was the sole source of microfilming original records for archives. They gave copies of their microfilms to the archive where the microfilming was performed. > They just purchase the rolls from the individual countries and they told me that the Czech Republic will not sell it to them. That is true now...Czech is doing their own microfilming. Why should they give microfilms to LDS and lose a cash-cow. > The LDS just duplicates films for distribution to their research centers and consequently to people like us for research and often there are not enough, and there is a waiting time. > Aida _______ Lavrentiy Krupniak . > > ----------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Anettka@aol.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 7:34 AM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Re: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN FTM vs PAF > > > In a message dated 6/24/2006 6:39:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, Aida writes: > > It is just > > too bad that the only country not represented with microfilm availablity is > > the Czech Republic and you have to hire a Czech genealogist to actually look > > up the German records that should be under the ownership of the German > > public and not the Czech Goverment! You can get all the Danish, Swedish, > > French, Polish, English, Spanish, Italian, Swiss, German, Romanian, > > Hungarian, even Russian, Chinese, Japanese and Indian records in their > > handwriting..... but not the German records that are deposited in the Czech > > archives. > > Aida, > > > > If that thinking were prevelent, none of us would be able to find records for > > our ancestors, since the ones for those who moved around would be sent who > > knows where, and even if you knew where the family came from, the records might > > be inaccessible just because you don't know where they are. For that point in > > their lives, at least, finding the records would be a daunting task. And the > > United States would be devoid of records, because they would not be in US but > > scattered all over the world. > > > > While the CR may not have had records filmed by LDS, they are available to > > ANYONE who wishes to see them - And don't believe ALL records even in the list > > of countries you presented are filmed by LDS. They are still working on it; > > however I know of many records from places I am interested in in other 'filmed' > > places that haven been filmed. They reside in their rightful places; where > > they were generated. LDS may film in an eccliastical archive or civil archive > > covering the same region but not both and the two sources are not identical, so > > many years for many places do not get filmed. Then one has to go there, or > > hire research to access those records not filmed. Ya' can't except LDS to > > guarantee to make the work for you easy. > > > > However, there are some LDS records filmed for the German settlements - by > > the LDS. In WWII, Germans 'repatriated' to a German archive records from some > > of German settlements in Bohemia. While in German, these records were filmed > > by LDS and are available as are other records.. After the 'cold' war, or maybe > > sooner, I am not sure, the records were retuned to their rightful places. > > > > Anettka > > > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To search the archives, go to: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To search the archives, go to: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN