Dear Dr. Killoran, Re.: Galicia, we never cease to learn, right?! And Egerländer villages even there ...... and with more audio and visual cultural descriptions than what we can find on our Egerländer websites. Let me add that the variety in looks between different ethnic villages "in the East" were significant. For instance in the Banat there were French and German settlers. Because the Germans brought their teachers with them and immediately established a school system, the French sent their children there also and thereby absorbed the German language. When that "French" part of the Banat was split off and given to Yugoslavia in 1918, these French people were treated as "Germans" far more brutally in 1945 that the Banater Germans in Romania. And that is a story that will probably surface next. The lower and middle class is looked upon as "lowest"class by the politicians of a country and are considered "expendable" for the good of the fatherland........ In reality they are providing the most reliable tax base for it. Hitler actually recognized that and based the value of the Mark not on the international market but on the work ethic of the German people. It was a unique concept which did not teach us "economics" during that time. All items were price controlled and there was no "shopping" necessary. You bought the item - regardless where - for the same price.....and business licenses were granted only for the planned amount of establishments, so they were only as many shops as a community could support and they were able to coexist to serve the public instead of "cutting each other's throat". Money was plentiful, so were material items, like a car and radio (Volksempfänger and Volkswagen) for everyone, but food was painfully scarce. It was the effort in obtaining food that started a black market trade and - therefore - a new economic base. As far as the settlements went, after the Germans were expelled, the Czech Government tried to settle Roma people into the many vacated houses of the Sudetengermans, but were not successful with their good intention. Maria Theresa of Austria Hungary and Katherina the Great of Russia knew that with German settlers from the Imperium they would not only get "farmers" but also "craftsmen" because each small farmer was apprenticed to a trade. Farms in Germany had become so small, that additional income sources, like a trade, had become a necessity. Therefore, seeking and settling such people in unpopulated areas was a sure way to develop the land in an orderly way, as well as having reliable representation against the influx of Eastern hordes. It did them no good that Jefferson had his agents running around to lure this same desirable population to America, and they had to counteract with more generous offers in the East to retain their population within Europe. In fact, they - as well - "made use" of these people to settle and protect the borders of the homeland. The creation of such well run villages became the envy of many other ethnic groups and the accumulation of German prosperity was for ever the cherished "bone of contention" to be taken away, preferable as the 'spoils of some war.' The vacuum 3 Million Germans had left after the expellation could not be made up with 900,000 Czech carpetbaggers who had a choice of 3:1 dwellings. The started in the best, dirtied it, moved to the next, dirtied it also, but by then their third choice in more remote villages, were already in neglect and ruin. Our people having lived there for centuries and each generation contributed to "making it better" and so this expellation was, indeed, a very painful "operation" where part of their soul got amputated. Our people had not only prospered, but gave their land their own soul! Coming back to these once charming hamlets they had left as children, they came back as grandparents, looking around dumbfounded and asked "why?"....Nobody had wanted what was wrested from them; often this process accompanied bloodletting or a family member was clubbed to death. And so those who still remember ( there are just a few old ones like us left now) stand in front of our cradle quite forlornly, with head and arms hanging and tears streaming from our eyes in total incomprehension. They would have been happy in these tidy hamlets, albeit they would not have become as rich as they had become in Germany with their big Mercedes now standing where father's plow once was. But they know that while they were free to "prosper again" those that had robbed them of their homeland had been the slaves of Communism. It is the younger Czech people that could clearly see all this and woke up to the rest of the world. And our group has withdrawn with an elegant, albeit forced gesture of non-retaliation and has become absorbed into the "German way of life" ....... or elsewhere in the world - and thereby has been abolished and eliminated. Aida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel R. Killoran,Ph.D." <drkilloran@speakeasy.net> To: "aida kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:51 AM Subject: Re: Galicia On Mar 2, 2006, at 4:48 PM, aida kraus wrote: > From Aida: > > > If you need to know the Jewel of the Austrian Crown for breeding > horse-stock, look at this link, there is a map for location. And then > you will know more about Galicia. There were quite a few Egerländer > settling in Galizien for the mild climate versus the cold Bohemian > Winters. What you write about poverty may be true about some villages > and settlements, as they are in Ireland, Yugoslavia and some other > "Hinterlands". The German settlements, however, and in general - were > very clean and well maintained, as they came from the same area of > settlement, mostly the Rhineland, as they were in Hungary, the Batschka, > Banat and Siebenbuergen. Here are a few links where you can browse and > then you KNOW where the place is and what it looks like. > Aida > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > attachments: > Shortcut to: http://www.machmer.de/ > http://www.machliniec.de/ > http://www.polishroots.org/genpoland/gal.htm > <www.machmer.de.url> Thanks for the references! You know, this is the first time I have ever seen a map showing the exact borders of Galicia - usually the word is just printed over the modern state info. I had rather wondered whether it was an actual well-defined region or just a general area, like "steppes" or "gaeltacht". It seems to be about twice as large as I had imagined, although in about the right place. It is interesting to know that there were Germans there - to hear it talked about, one would imagine the population to be entirely jewish! Dan Killoran

Dear Aida; Thank you for your brilliant summary below! Rosina T. Schmidt > Dear Dr. Killoran, > Re.: Galicia, we never cease to learn, right?! And Egerländer > villages even there ...... and with more audio and visual cultural > descriptions than what we can find on our Egerländer websites. > Let me add that the variety in looks between different ethnic > villages "in the East" were significant. For instance in the Banat there > were French and German settlers. Because the Germans brought their > teachers with them and immediately established a school system, the French > sent their children there also and thereby absorbed the German language. > When that "French" part of the Banat was split off and given to Yugoslavia > in 1918, these French people were treated as "Germans" far more brutally > in 1945 that the Banater Germans in Romania. And that is a story that > will probably surface next. > The lower and middle class is looked upon as "lowest"class by > the politicians of a country and are considered "expendable" for the good > of the fatherland........ In reality they are providing the most reliable > tax base for it. Hitler actually recognized that and based the value of > the Mark not on the international market but on the work ethic of the > German people. It was a unique concept which did not teach us "economics" > during that time. All items were price controlled and there was no > "shopping" necessary. You bought the item - regardless where - for the > same price.....and business licenses were granted only for the planned > amount of establishments, so they were only as many shops as a community > could support and they were able to coexist to serve the public instead of > "cutting each other's throat". Money was plentiful, so were material > items, like a car and radio (Volksempfänger and Volkswagen) for everyone, > but food was painfully scarce. It was the effort in obtaining food that > started a black market trade and - therefore - a new economic base. > As far as the settlements went, after the Germans were > expelled, the Czech Government tried to settle Roma people into the many > vacated houses of the Sudetengermans, but were not successful with their > good intention. Maria Theresa of Austria Hungary and Katherina the Great > of Russia knew that with German settlers from the Imperium they would not > only get "farmers" but also "craftsmen" because each small farmer was > apprenticed to a trade. Farms in Germany had become so small, that > additional income sources, like a trade, had become a necessity. > Therefore, seeking and settling such people in unpopulated areas was a > sure way to develop the land in an orderly way, as well as having reliable > representation against the influx of Eastern hordes. It did them no good > that Jefferson had his agents running around to lure this same desirable > population to America, and they had to counteract with more generous > offers in the East to retain their population within Europe. In fact, > they - as well - "made use" of these people to settle and protect the > borders of the homeland. The creation of such well run villages became > the envy of many other ethnic groups and the accumulation of German > prosperity was for ever the cherished "bone of contention" to be taken > away, preferable as the 'spoils of some war.' > The vacuum 3 Million Germans had left after the expellation > could not be made up with 900,000 Czech carpetbaggers who had a choice of > 3:1 dwellings. The started in the best, dirtied it, moved to the next, > dirtied it also, but by then their third choice in more remote villages, > were already in neglect and ruin. Our people having lived there for > centuries and each generation contributed to "making it better" and so > this expellation was, indeed, a very painful "operation" where part of > their soul got amputated. Our people had not only prospered, but gave > their land their own soul! Coming back to these once charming hamlets > they had left as children, they came back as grandparents, looking around > dumbfounded and asked "why?"....Nobody had wanted what was wrested from > them; often this process accompanied bloodletting or a family member was > clubbed to death. And so those who still remember ( there are just a few > old ones like us left now) stand in front of our cradle quite forlornly, > with head and arms hanging and tears streaming from our eyes in total > incomprehension. They would have been happy in these tidy hamlets, albeit > they would not have become as rich as they had become in Germany with > their big Mercedes now standing where father's plow once was. But they > know that while they were free to "prosper again" those that had robbed > them of their homeland had been the slaves of Communism. It is the > younger Czech people that could clearly see all this and woke up to the > rest of the world. And our group has withdrawn with an elegant, albeit > forced gesture of non-retaliation and has become absorbed into the "German > way of life" ....... or elsewhere in the world - and thereby has been > abolished and eliminated. > Aida

Dr. Killoran wrote: > Thanks for the references! You know, this is the first time I have > ever seen a map showing the exact borders of Galicia - usually the > word is just printed over the modern state info. I had rather > wondered whether it was an actual well-defined region or just a > general area, like "steppes" or "gaeltacht". History of Galicia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_%28Central_Europe%29 http://www.halgal.com/galicia.html > It seems to be about > twice as large as I had imagined, although in about the right place. > It is interesting to know that there were Germans there - to hear it > talked about, one would imagine the population to be entirely jewish! Overall 1907 statistics: http://www.halgal.com/1907popbylang.html 1931 Eastern Galician provinces: http://www.halgal.com/1931popbylang.html > Dan Killoran _______ Lavrentiy Krupniak

Germans comprised less than 3 per cent of the Galician population. They resided in isolated communities. The local populations, especially the Rusyns|Ukrainians regarded them as colonists. I would argue that the Germans had de minimis effect on the overall conditions in Galicia (social, economic, cultural, etc.). ______ Lavrentiy Krupniak Aida Kraus wrote: > > Dear Dr. Killoran, > Re.: Galicia, we never cease to learn, right?! And Egerländer > villages even there ...... and with more audio and visual cultural > descriptions than what we can find on our Egerländer websites. > Let me add that the variety in looks between different ethnic > villages "in the East" were significant. For instance in the Banat there > were French and German settlers. Because the Germans brought their teachers > with them and immediately established a school system, the French sent their > children there also and thereby absorbed the German language. When that > "French" part of the Banat was split off and given to Yugoslavia in 1918, > these French people were treated as "Germans" far more brutally in 1945 that > the Banater Germans in Romania. And that is a story that will probably > surface next. > The lower and middle class is looked upon as "lowest"class by > the politicians of a country and are considered "expendable" for the good of > the fatherland........ In reality they are providing the most reliable tax > base for it. Hitler actually recognized that and based the value of the > Mark not on the international market but on the work ethic of the German > people. It was a unique concept which did not teach us "economics" during > that time. All items were price controlled and there was no "shopping" > necessary. You bought the item - regardless where - for the same > price.....and business licenses were granted only for the planned amount of > establishments, so they were only as many shops as a community could support > and they were able to coexist to serve the public instead of "cutting each > other's throat". Money was plentiful, so were material items, like a car > and radio (Volksempfänger and Volkswagen) for everyone, but food was > painfully scarce. It was the effort in obtaining food that started a black > market trade and - therefore - a new economic base. > As far as the settlements went, after the Germans were expelled, > the Czech Government tried to settle Roma people into the many vacated > houses of the Sudetengermans, but were not successful with their good > intention. Maria Theresa of Austria Hungary and Katherina the Great of > Russia knew that with German settlers from the Imperium they would not only > get "farmers" but also "craftsmen" because each small farmer was apprenticed > to a trade. Farms in Germany had become so small, that additional income > sources, like a trade, had become a necessity. Therefore, seeking and > settling such people in unpopulated areas was a sure way to develop the land > in an orderly way, as well as having reliable representation against the > influx of Eastern hordes. It did them no good that Jefferson had his agents > running around to lure this same desirable population to America, and they > had to counteract with more generous offers in the East to retain their > population within Europe. In fact, they - as well - "made use" of these > people to settle and protect the borders of the homeland. The creation of > such well run villages became the envy of many other ethnic groups and the > accumulation of German prosperity was for ever the cherished "bone of > contention" to be taken away, preferable as the 'spoils of some war.' > The vacuum 3 Million Germans had left after the expellation > could not be made up with 900,000 Czech carpetbaggers who had a choice of > 3:1 dwellings. The started in the best, dirtied it, moved to the next, > dirtied it also, but by then their third choice in more remote villages, > were already in neglect and ruin. Our people having lived there for > centuries and each generation contributed to "making it better" and so this > expellation was, indeed, a very painful "operation" where part of their soul > got amputated. Our people had not only prospered, but gave their land their > own soul! Coming back to these once charming hamlets they had left as > children, they came back as grandparents, looking around dumbfounded and > asked "why?"....Nobody had wanted what was wrested from them; often this > process accompanied bloodletting or a family member was clubbed to death. > And so those who still remember ( there are just a few old ones like us left > now) stand in front of our cradle quite forlornly, with head and arms > hanging and tears streaming from our eyes in total incomprehension. They > would have been happy in these tidy hamlets, albeit they would not have > become as rich as they had become in Germany with their big Mercedes now > standing where father's plow once was. But they know that while they were > free to "prosper again" those that had robbed them of their homeland had > been the slaves of Communism. It is the younger Czech people that could > clearly see all this and woke up to the rest of the world. And our group > has withdrawn with an elegant, albeit forced gesture of non-retaliation and > has become absorbed into the "German way of life" ....... or elsewhere in > the world - and thereby has been abolished and eliminated. > Aida > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel R. Killoran,Ph.D." <drkilloran@speakeasy.net> > To: "aida kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:51 AM > Subject: Re: Galicia > > On Mar 2, 2006, at 4:48 PM, aida kraus wrote: > > > From Aida: > > > > > > If you need to know the Jewel of the Austrian Crown for breeding > > horse-stock, look at this link, there is a map for location. And then > > you will know more about Galicia. There were quite a few Egerländer > > settling in Galizien for the mild climate versus the cold Bohemian > > Winters. What you write about poverty may be true about some villages > > and settlements, as they are in Ireland, Yugoslavia and some other > > "Hinterlands". The German settlements, however, and in general - were > > very clean and well maintained, as they came from the same area of > > settlement, mostly the Rhineland, as they were in Hungary, the Batschka, > > Banat and Siebenbuergen. Here are a few links where you can browse and > > then you KNOW where the place is and what it looks like. > > Aida > > > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > > attachments: > > Shortcut to: http://www.machmer.de/ > > http://www.machliniec.de/ > > http://www.polishroots.org/genpoland/gal.htm > > <www.machmer.de.url> > > Thanks for the references! You know, this is the first time I have > ever seen a map showing the exact borders of Galicia - usually the > word is just printed over the modern state info. I had rather > wondered whether it was an actual well-defined region or just a > general area, like "steppes" or "gaeltacht". It seems to be about > twice as large as I had imagined, although in about the right place. > It is interesting to know that there were Germans there - to hear it > talked about, one would imagine the population to be entirely jewish! > > Dan Killoran