Here is Laurence Krupniacs question. I know, but my question is why Bohemian Germans didn’t also move to democratic Germany after WWI if they didn't like the Czechoslovakian government (i.e. the post-World War I CZ government)? -------------------------------------------------------------- Laurence. There are several reasons why this has not happened on a large scale. A good portion of Sudeten Germans (including myself) grew up in a bilingual culture It was natural for us to switch instantly into Czech and back again, when needed. So it was not a question of “not liking” the CZ government in Prague. I am sure my parents and GP’s accepted the Prague Government as a fact of life. Furthermore, The German areas had been colonized in a big way since 1254 AD on behest of the Bohemian King Ottokar II and his faithful servant the good Bishop of Olmuetz (Olomouc)Bruno von Schaumburg who helped him settle the North Eastern part of Bohemia and Moravia. Our villages were our “Heimat” our Homeland and there was no reason for anyone to abandon our places just because we did not like the Government in Prague. I am sure you can draw a parallel with your own situation in the US. From reading about the Sudeten history I conclude that all that was demanded in 1918 by the German areas was to be granted democratic rights of “Self Determination” preferably under Austria or under a Federal Government in Prag. Neither was granted. Aida recently gave us an account of the 54 who were shot by the Czechs during a peaceful demonstration. By 1945 there were 3.5 million of us among roughly 8 million, in a “Multi Nation State” that Czechoslovakia always was, since it’s inception. The concept of “Heimat” is very powerful notion that affects people, particularly when they have lost it. Because of this closeness to what is no longer theirs the Sudeten's are often labeled neo Nazis which I personally find to be utter hogwash and out of touch with reality. I have researched several topics dear to my heart, pertaining to the early German settlements which were subsequently published as articles in “Nase Rodina” and the “FEEFHS Journal”. You may have come across them. If you need a refresher I’d be glad to send them to you electronically. Titles that may be of interest: • The early German Settlements in North eastern Moravia, Subtitled: And what the Pied Piper of Hamelin had to do with it. • The Celts in Moravia. With additional information on recent Archeological digs and kind permission of the Museum in Moravska Trebova. (Mährisch Trübau). Frank -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 3/10/2006

Thanks Aida, Karen, and Frank. I now seek thoughts/opinions about would have been the likely relationship of Czechs and Sudeten Germans in Czechoslavakia after World War II if the Sudeten Germans were not deported to Germany after World War II. ______ Lavrentiy . Frank Soural wrote: > > Here is Laurence Krupniacs question. > > I know, but my question is why Bohemian Germans didn’t also move to > democratic Germany after WWI if they didn't like the Czechoslovakian > government (i.e. the post-World War I CZ government)? > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Laurence. There are several reasons why this has not happened on a large > scale. > > A good portion of Sudeten Germans (including myself) grew up in a bilingual > culture It was natural for us to switch instantly into Czech and back again, > when needed. So it was not a question of “not liking” the CZ government in > Prague. I am sure my parents and GP’s accepted the Prague Government as a > fact of life. > > Furthermore, The German areas had been colonized in a big way since 1254 AD > on behest of the Bohemian King Ottokar II and his faithful servant the good > Bishop of Olmuetz (Olomouc)Bruno von Schaumburg who helped him settle the > North Eastern part of Bohemia and Moravia. Our villages were our “Heimat” > our Homeland and there was no reason for anyone to abandon > our places just because we did not like the Government in Prague. > I am sure you can draw a parallel with your own situation in the US. > > >From reading about the Sudeten history I conclude that all that was demanded > in 1918 by the German areas was to be granted democratic rights of “Self > Determination” preferably under Austria or under a Federal Government > in Prag. Neither was granted. Aida recently gave us an account of the 54 who > were shot by the Czechs during a peaceful demonstration. By 1945 there were > 3.5 million of us among roughly 8 million, in a “Multi Nation State” that > Czechoslovakia always was, since it’s inception. > > The concept of “Heimat” is very powerful notion that affects people, > particularly when they have lost it. Because of this closeness to what is no > longer theirs the Sudeten's are often labeled neo Nazis which > I personally find to be utter hogwash and out of touch with reality. > > I have researched several topics dear to my heart, pertaining to the early > German settlements which were subsequently published as articles in “Nase > Rodina” and the “FEEFHS Journal”. You may have come across them. > > If you need a refresher I’d be glad to send them to you electronically. > > Titles that may be of interest: > > • The early German Settlements in North eastern Moravia, > Subtitled: And what the Pied Piper of Hamelin had to do with it. > > • The Celts in Moravia. With additional information on recent > Archeological digs and kind permission of the Museum in > Moravska Trebova. (Mährisch Trübau). > > Frank

As to Laurence questions what would have happend if the German Bohemians had been allowed to stay at home I must say - thank God they deported us! Because the poor devils that stayed behind were under the fist of a Communist system for more than 50 years that was even worse for them than living under the Hitler regime. Actually the "Protectorate" had it pretty soft in comparison to the Sudetenland during the war years, because they had more food, no bombings, and did not have to join the military. Had this group from England not aggravated the situation - because it was too peaceful in the Czech lands - by sending in assassins to kill Heydrich, it would have remained very quiet there indeed, because ALL Bohemians are an "accepting people" Czech or German alike. But after killing the head of the Protectorate things became "tight" - just as tight as British occupation would apply in India when one of their officials was killed. It did not take long, and I was still there in 1948 when the Czechs "woke up" that expelling the Germans was a big mistake, that it put them into a quick economic downward spin, because these millions of people expelled left an unavoidable HOLE in a land that was nearly depleted after six long war years. It was the Czechs themselves that tore their hair out, because they were suddenly deprived of the connection to the Western World. The key to that world was in the hands of those 3 Million people they had expelled. It was then that they realized that a reforming of their "old Republic" would have saved the Czech Nation from Communism. The German people that were left in the Czech Republic were suddenly given far more rights again, like a German newspapers, forming of the Egerlander Gmoi, ethnic groups, cultural heritage, ethnic balls, etc. They even bonded in the common misery under the Communist Regime. They felt that these other "German troublemakers" were now gone, and what was left in their land were the "good Germans", or so they thought. But they did not know that there were many more "good Germans" that should never have been expelled and that those that had NEVER carried a grudge were now made furious with the injustice and bloodletting they had suffered. To sort that out.... that indeed is a sticky wicket! The mood of our people in 1945 was that the new Czechoslovakia would reform on the basis of the old...... and that was "ok"......so we go back to the old times....our sylvan beauty, our mountains, our fields have lasted that long, we will too.... Czechs and Germans mix, marry and mingle easily, both of them are sentimental about the beauty of their common home, they like the same basic living conditions, food, music and - in reality - they have always enriched one another. Neither of them has a political soul, they rather dance a polka together.... but it is this political part that has always been a source of disturbance coming from the outside of the land - and mainly England and Germany - who have forever interfered with the "Bohemian simple spirit" in furthering their own agendas, regardless if it was Wycliffe's thesis that created Hussites or the Catholic-Protestant 30 years war setting people against people for their own gain. It would be wise that WE Bohemians, all of us, Czechs and Germans wake up to this fact! Let me state a fact here: the Czech intelligence never had any reason to go to the Sudetenland and behaving like carpetbaggers, and they did NOT! These "well to do" Czechs did not need to steal and plunder, they stayed in their homes. But it is also understood by the German population of our common land, that jails were opened with the arrival of the liberating Russian army, thereby a certain criminal element and a very low social class was "released" like a mob to do as they pleased in the aftermath of WW2. And our people were horrified at what was coming at them totally uncontrolled. It was this "elements aim" in collecting these rich German spoils so envied for many centuries, regardless how much blood had to flow. It created such a havoc in history that it had to be kept hidden from the new generation of Czechs who were taught that all Germans that were expelled were BAD! But the truth is surfacing now, and German and Czech groups are actually working together to arrive again at a basis where they can exist side by side in the new EU. Germans are welcome again in Czechia, as it is now known, but what remains is a legal cleanup of property ownership, because our German names are still in existence on all Czech registers, which are our original ownership records called the Grundbuch (list of property ownership). You can even apply for your Czech citizenship... however, no Sudetengerman desires that because they are not Czech, they are Austrians still to this day.......and have become Germans in the meantime or citizens of many other countries. Living in their new homelands, and by acquiring the Czech citizenship does NOT give them the right to their old property as long as the Benes Decrees retained and there is the hairy questions if - on top ot it - our "world income" would be taxable by the Czech Republic in accepting this Czech citizenship. It is such and a convoluted law that even the best international lawyers have not yet "mastered". Aida ------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@erols.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Laurences question. > > Thanks Aida, Karen, and Frank. > > I now seek thoughts/opinions about would have been the likely > relationship of Czechs and Sudeten Germans in Czechoslavakia after World > War II if the Sudeten Germans were not deported to Germany after World > War II. > > ______ > > Lavrentiy > > . > > > > Frank Soural wrote: >> >> Here is Laurence Krupniacs question. >> >> I know, but my question is why Bohemian Germans didn't also move to >> democratic Germany after WWI if they didn't like the Czechoslovakian >> government (i.e. the post-World War I CZ government)? >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> Laurence. There are several reasons why this has not happened on a large >> scale. >> >> A good portion of Sudeten Germans (including myself) grew up in a >> bilingual >> culture It was natural for us to switch instantly into Czech and back >> again, >> when needed. So it was not a question of "not liking" the CZ government >> in >> Prague. I am sure my parents and GP's accepted the Prague Government as a >> fact of life. >> >> Furthermore, The German areas had been colonized in a big way since 1254 >> AD >> on behest of the Bohemian King Ottokar II and his faithful servant the >> good >> Bishop of Olmuetz (Olomouc)Bruno von Schaumburg who helped him settle the >> North Eastern part of Bohemia and Moravia. Our villages were our "Heimat" >> our Homeland and there was no reason for anyone to abandon >> our places just because we did not like the Government in Prague. >> I am sure you can draw a parallel with your own situation in the US. >> >> >From reading about the Sudeten history I conclude that all that was >> >demanded >> in 1918 by the German areas was to be granted democratic rights of "Self >> Determination" preferably under Austria or under a Federal Government >> in Prag. Neither was granted. Aida recently gave us an account of the 54 >> who >> were shot by the Czechs during a peaceful demonstration. By 1945 there >> were >> 3.5 million of us among roughly 8 million, in a "Multi Nation State" that >> Czechoslovakia always was, since it's inception. >> >> The concept of "Heimat" is very powerful notion that affects people, >> particularly when they have lost it. Because of this closeness to what is >> no >> longer theirs the Sudeten's are often labeled neo Nazis which >> I personally find to be utter hogwash and out of touch with reality. >> >> I have researched several topics dear to my heart, pertaining to the >> early >> German settlements which were subsequently published as articles in "Nase >> Rodina" and the "FEEFHS Journal". You may have come across them. >> >> If you need a refresher I'd be glad to send them to you electronically. >> >> Titles that may be of interest: >> >> . The early German Settlements in North eastern Moravia, >> Subtitled: And what the Pied Piper of Hamelin had to do with it. >> >> . The Celts in Moravia. With additional information on recent >> Archeological digs and kind permission of the Museum in >> Moravska Trebova. (Mährisch Trübau). >> >> Frank > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >