Karen,.....Thank you. My gr mother (1862-1939 Bukovina), spoke "low" German. Her bible was in regular German. Her surname SCHRAMEK, and I know her roots were in Bohemia, but I have not been able to get back the 1700-1800 generational connection. In the LDH search, I find Schrameks in Moravia. Can you with your experience make any suggestions from the facts I have given you? I think I'm still too short of information Any ideas? Many Thanks, Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: <KarenHob@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 12:54 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Sudeten dialects > In a message dated 5/17/2006 10:15:28 PM Mountain Standard Time, > akibb1@verizon.net writes: > If you visit there, go to > an Inn "Gasthof" in the evening when the local folks come for a drink of > beer and play cards..... and then sit quietly in a corner and LISTEN!!! > My German cousins speak Egerländer dialect. It is different from modern > Bavarian dialects -- sort of sing-song. If you have heard people speaking > Yiddish it has sort of that same sing-song to it. It always sounds like a "party > in progress" IMO. I can't imagine how that "music" can express anger or > frustration!! > > The dialectical marks used when writing Egerland dialect are not only > umlauts. There are other marks that denote a specific sound that is not found in > modern German. > > A Schöne Mächecn in Egerland dialect souns sort of like Shayneh Maydl with > some emphasis on the "a" sounds. > > There is a Egerländisch dictionary somewhere on line somewhere - it may be a > work in progress. It is dialact - German. The Egerland newsletter also > has a few more pages of their on-going work to produce a dictionary in each > edition. At least they used to. The GBHS library has an older small > dictionary of dialect to German. It is helpful but it may not have all the words in > it that have been collected by other sources since it was published. > > Dialects of other Sudeton parts of Bohemia are different from Egerländisch. > They depend on the influences brought there by early settlers from Saxon and > Frankish homes in early Germany with some mix from local peoples already > living there or moving there at the same time (like from Silesia or from Austria). > > > There is a dictionary of German dialects being developed by German scholars. > It is expected to be from 16-20 volumes by the time it is finished. > I saw the first volume for the letter "A" at a Heimat Treffen in Nurnburg in > 1997. I understand that there are a few US Universities that will > eventually have all of the books. Georgetown University is one of them. > > They will probably cost about $100-200 per volume and the price is probably > prohibitive for most genealogical libraries in the US. I also doubt that they > will be available for interlibrary loan from the collegiat institutions that > hold them. > > They are probably the only resource that would help to translate ANY Sudeten > dialect as well as other German dialects from Eastern Europe, Austria, Hungary > and other areas settled by Germans during the last several centuries. (Many > remaining "outland" German populations have been repatriated when possible > because of massacres and suppression following WW II.) > > I found that there are always articles in dialect in Hemat newsletters -- > especially in the older editions. The Jeschken-Iser Jahrbuch was alomst 1/2 > narratives in dialect. > > It is a shame that the dictionaries will be so hard to come by for those who > want to know more about Sudeten dialects. > > I don't know if they will also include Swiss dialects which include > Alemannisch, Baseldeutsch, Bernedeutsch and Zurichdeutsch. > See http://www.ex.ac.uk/~pjoyce/dialects/obschwyz.html > for ancestral Swiss dialects. > > There is some information about German didlects at: > http://members.tripod.com/~rjschellen/Dialinks.htm > Scroll down to find it. > > On the page: > http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~naeser/dsa-hist.htm > > there are phrases to compare. At the bottom of the page > there is: Ich will es auch nicht mehr wieder tun. > (I'll never do that again.) > At the bottom of the list of dialects there is: > > > WI1 I wüls a inimma tuan. > WI3 I wülls a nimmermehr tuan. > WI20 I wir_s a nimma wieda tuan. > > Those look like Sudeten dialects without typical diacritical marks. > I cannot tell from the page if the spelling is supposed to be phonetic for > pronuciation. It looks a lot like dialect spelling I have seen. > > BTW, when I was last in New Ulm for the SGAS conference, there were a lot of > German professors and scholars there. The GBHS put on a show of folk > culture and the people who could still speak the dialect their ancestors brought to > New Ulm (from the Bishofteinetz and Taus borderlands -- not really Egerländer > and not exactly Bohemian Forest dialect. I heard some Germans at the table > next to me say that they didn't understand one word. They were guessing it > was "some kind of Bayerische". > > I understand that at least one GBHS member is trying to compile a dictionary > of his dialect and to preserve recordings from those in the area who still > speak it. > > Lets hope he is able to complete that work!!! > > Karen > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To search the archives, go to: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > >
Where exactly is the Sudetenland? Is it the Czech Republic now? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen" <hwhitemc@msn.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Sudeten dialects Karen,.....Thank you. My gr mother (1862-1939 Bukovina), spoke "low" German. Her bible was in regular German. Her surname SCHRAMEK, and I know her roots were in Bohemia, but I have not been able to get back the 1700-1800 generational connection. In the LDH search, I find Schrameks in Moravia. Can you with your experience make any suggestions from the facts I have given you? I think I'm still too short of information Any ideas? Many Thanks, Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: <KarenHob@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 12:54 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Sudeten dialects > In a message dated 5/17/2006 10:15:28 PM Mountain Standard Time, > akibb1@verizon.net writes: > If you visit there, go to > an Inn "Gasthof" in the evening when the local folks come for a drink of > beer and play cards..... and then sit quietly in a corner and LISTEN!!! > My German cousins speak Egerländer dialect. It is different from modern > Bavarian dialects -- sort of sing-song. If you have heard people > speaking > Yiddish it has sort of that same sing-song to it. It always sounds like > a "party > in progress" IMO. I can't imagine how that "music" can express anger or > frustration!! > > The dialectical marks used when writing Egerland dialect are not only > umlauts. There are other marks that denote a specific sound that is not > found in > modern German. > > A Schöne Mächecn in Egerland dialect souns sort of like Shayneh Maydl with > some emphasis on the "a" sounds. > > There is a Egerländisch dictionary somewhere on line somewhere - it may be > a > work in progress. It is dialact - German. The Egerland newsletter > also > has a few more pages of their on-going work to produce a dictionary in > each > edition. At least they used to. The GBHS library has an older small > dictionary of dialect to German. It is helpful but it may not have all > the words in > it that have been collected by other sources since it was published. > > Dialects of other Sudeton parts of Bohemia are different from > Egerländisch. > They depend on the influences brought there by early settlers from Saxon > and > Frankish homes in early Germany with some mix from local peoples already > living there or moving there at the same time (like from Silesia or from > Austria). > > > There is a dictionary of German dialects being developed by German > scholars. > It is expected to be from 16-20 volumes by the time it is finished. > I saw the first volume for the letter "A" at a Heimat Treffen in Nurnburg > in > 1997. I understand that there are a few US Universities that will > eventually have all of the books. Georgetown University is one of them. > > They will probably cost about $100-200 per volume and the price is > probably > prohibitive for most genealogical libraries in the US. I also doubt that > they > will be available for interlibrary loan from the collegiat institutions > that > hold them. > > They are probably the only resource that would help to translate ANY > Sudeten > dialect as well as other German dialects from Eastern Europe, Austria, > Hungary > and other areas settled by Germans during the last several centuries. > (Many > remaining "outland" German populations have been repatriated when possible > because of massacres and suppression following WW II.) > > I found that there are always articles in dialect in Hemat newsletters -- > especially in the older editions. The Jeschken-Iser Jahrbuch was alomst > 1/2 > narratives in dialect. > > It is a shame that the dictionaries will be so hard to come by for those > who > want to know more about Sudeten dialects. > > I don't know if they will also include Swiss dialects which include > Alemannisch, Baseldeutsch, Bernedeutsch and Zurichdeutsch. > See http://www.ex.ac.uk/~pjoyce/dialects/obschwyz.html > for ancestral Swiss dialects. > > There is some information about German didlects at: > http://members.tripod.com/~rjschellen/Dialinks.htm > Scroll down to find it. > > On the page: > http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~naeser/dsa-hist.htm > > there are phrases to compare. At the bottom of the page > there is: Ich will es auch nicht mehr wieder tun. > (I'll never do that again.) > At the bottom of the list of dialects there is: > > > WI1 I wüls a inimma tuan. > WI3 I wülls a nimmermehr tuan. > WI20 I wir_s a nimma wieda tuan. > > Those look like Sudeten dialects without typical diacritical marks. > I cannot tell from the page if the spelling is supposed to be phonetic for > pronuciation. It looks a lot like dialect spelling I have seen. > > BTW, when I was last in New Ulm for the SGAS conference, there were a lot > of > German professors and scholars there. The GBHS put on a show of folk > culture and the people who could still speak the dialect their ancestors > brought to > New Ulm (from the Bishofteinetz and Taus borderlands -- not really > Egerländer > and not exactly Bohemian Forest dialect. I heard some Germans at the > table > next to me say that they didn't understand one word. They were guessing > it > was "some kind of Bayerische". > > I understand that at least one GBHS member is trying to compile a > dictionary > of his dialect and to preserve recordings from those in the area who still > speak it. > > Lets hope he is able to complete that work!!! > > Karen > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To browse the archives, go to: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/