The title of the tax rolls is called Berni Rula and can be requested from your library. Here is the source. Berni Rula Source (Census of Bohemian Population after 30 years war 1651 - 1654 ISBN 80-7277-058-6 Author Cerveny (2003) Avialable on Interlibrary loan from Indiana University Sometimes you will have to wait a few weeks, but it is well worth it. Unfortunately, they have distorted all the original German records by translating the German names of our ancestors into Czech, especially their first names, because as you can see this record was compiled as recently as 2003. We had Heinrich, Anton and Franz under many of our German surnames. However, now they appear as Jindrich, Antonin and Frantisek under a very poorly spelled last name. This requires a bit of studying to prepare yourself for the "hunt". While my ancestors and I lived in the old Czechoslovakia, the German settlements documents were recorded in German and the Czech settlements documents were issued in Czech. For English speaking people the German is far easier to read than the Czech lettering, which is phonetic. If you go to a German website, like Yahoo, search for the German name, like Schönbach and then the word Tschechien (which means Czech Republic) and you will most likely get all the Schönbach Villages in Bohemia and Moravia. I tried it for you and I am getting these three (see listing below) from the German-Czech Village name Index which I am also giving here. The German village name is given first and the one after the colon: is the present Czech name. I don't know which one of the Schönbachs is the village where your ancestors came from. To isolate this information, you will have to go to the next step given below, see "mapy.cz" To find the new Czech name for German villages go to: http://www.tschechien-online.org/news/1452-ortsnamen-tschechien-liste-deutscher-bezeichnungen-tschechischer-orte-buchstabe-s/ a.. Schönbach (bei Deutsch Gabel): Zdislava a.. Schönbach im Erzgebirge: Meziborí a.. Schönbach (bei Wildstein): Luby After you have located the Czech village name, go to this website : www.mapy.cz find the search button type in the Czech village name and press "dalsi" (go) and a map will come up to show where the village is located. You can focus on it with a larger view, once you have found the general area. Since people did not travel much during the old times, you will most likely find the villages of their mates nearby. So give it a good look on a larger view! You can then locate the one where your ancestors came from. If you can read a map, you can find your way through this, even though it is in the Czech language. If you key in the website's address into the google search button, you can ask for a translation and follow the instructions. It is a bit of detective work, but then this is the fun of genealogy. There is also an old Austrian Hungarian map registry which you can access by googling: http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm On these old military maps (an enlarging button and navigator is in the right lower corner of the reduced map) all German villages are bearing their original German names and all Czech villages are listed with their Czech names. Since these are very old maps dating 1910 and before, you will find more German names than Czech. But if you can find the Longt.-Lat. coordinates, you can pinpoint every small village (even individual houses shown by a black dot) on these old Lazarus Military maps. They are accessible through your computer and are free. A word of advice! You would not want others to do this research for you, there is personal pride involved in such a search which is highly rewarding. You will get stuck with actual documentation, and then it will be time to ask for research help in the Czech archives. Because this is very expensive, this "footwork" will make the search for the prof. genealogist shorter and less expensive to you. It is important that you educate yourself as to the history during different centuries and that you build a glossary for yourself to help with translations. I realize that you need a little guidance as to how to go about it logically. I have found this method as something that really "works" and it is a good way to get started. It will bring you reliable results without chasing all over foreign websites that do not pan out. If you key in the Czech village name into a Czech website, you most likely will get the coordinates of the village and some photographs of the area. Just click on the words "Photo or Gallery." I am posting this to the List for general use. Good luck! Aida PS: copy and paste these three links into a separate folder under "my documents" for future reference, as you will use it quite often to get "closer" to your ancestry. > >>What is the title of the published Index to theTax Rolls of 1654 for > Bohemia? Sorry, if I've overlooked a cited E-mail on that question. > Also, > were any of the Urbarium (sp?) for Bohemia published? Specifically I'm > looking for any property records in the Schönbach, Seifersdorf, Hohenelbe, > Beneschau and Deutsch-Gabel area. I've given the German names as I'm still > attempting to find the Czech diacritical marks in my fonts. > >>Looking for info re: Scholz, Wörfel, Heidrich, Smahal, Grützner, Erben, > Kieswetter >> >>Thanks for any info, Norbert. >> >> >> > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >

Thank You - I couldn't find it either Aida Kraus wrote: > The title of the tax rolls is called Berni Rula and can be requested > from your library. Here is the source. > Berni Rula Source (Census of Bohemian Population after 30 years war > 1651 - 1654 > > ISBN 80-7277-058-6 > > Author Cerveny (2003) > > Avialable on Interlibrary loan from Indiana University > > > Sometimes you will have to wait a few weeks, but it is well worth it. > Unfortunately, they have distorted all the original German records by > translating the German names of our ancestors into Czech, especially > their first names, because as you can see this record was compiled as > recently as 2003. We had Heinrich, Anton and Franz under many of our > German surnames. However, now they appear as Jindrich, Antonin and > Frantisek under a very poorly spelled last name. This requires a bit of > studying to prepare yourself for the "hunt". While my ancestors and I > lived in the old Czechoslovakia, the German settlements documents were > recorded in German and the Czech settlements documents were issued in > Czech. For English speaking people the German is far easier to read > than the Czech lettering, which is phonetic. > > If you go to a German website, like Yahoo, search for the German name, > like Schönbach and then the word Tschechien (which means Czech Republic) > and you will most likely get all the Schönbach Villages in Bohemia and > Moravia. I tried it for you and I am getting these three (see listing > below) from the German-Czech Village name Index which I am also giving > here. The German village name is given first and the one after the > colon: is the present Czech name. I don't know which one of the > Schönbachs is the village where your ancestors came from. To isolate > this information, you will have to go to the next step given below, see > "mapy.cz" > To find the new Czech name for German villages go to: > > http://www.tschechien-online.org/news/1452-ortsnamen-tschechien-liste-deutscher-bezeichnungen-tschechischer-orte-buchstabe-s/ > > > a.. Schönbach (bei Deutsch Gabel): Zdislava > > a.. Schönbach im Erzgebirge: Meziborí > > a.. Schönbach (bei Wildstein): Luby > > After you have located the Czech village name, go to this website : > www.mapy.cz find the search button type in the Czech village name and > press "dalsi" (go) and a map will come up to show where the village is > located. You can focus on it with a larger view, once you have found the > general area. Since people did not travel much during the old times, you > will most likely find the villages of their mates nearby. So give it a > good look on a larger view! You can then locate the one where your > ancestors came from. If you can read a map, you can find your way > through this, even though it is in the Czech language. If you key in > the website's address into the google search button, you can ask for a > translation and follow the instructions. It is a bit of detective work, > but then this is the fun of genealogy. > There is also an old Austrian Hungarian map registry which you can > access by googling: > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm > > On these old military maps (an enlarging button and navigator is in the > right lower corner of the reduced map) all German villages are bearing > their original German names and all Czech villages are listed with their > Czech names. Since these are very old maps dating 1910 and before, you > will find more German names than Czech. But if you can find the > Longt.-Lat. coordinates, you can pinpoint every small village (even > individual houses shown by a black dot) on these old Lazarus Military > maps. They are accessible through your computer and are free. > > A word of advice! You would not want others to do this research for > you, there is personal pride involved in such a search which is highly > rewarding. You will get stuck with actual documentation, and then it > will be time to ask for research help in the Czech archives. Because > this is very expensive, this "footwork" will make the search for the > prof. genealogist shorter and less expensive to you. It is important > that you educate yourself as to the history during different centuries > and that you build a glossary for yourself to help with translations. > > I realize that you need a little guidance as to how to go about it > logically. I have found this method as something that really "works" > and it is a good way to get started. It will bring you reliable results > without chasing all over foreign websites that do not pan out. If you > key in the Czech village name into a Czech website, you most likely will > get the coordinates of the village and some photographs of the area. > Just click on the words "Photo or Gallery." > I am posting this to the List for general use. Good luck! > Aida > > PS: copy and paste these three links into a separate folder under "my > documents" for future reference, as you will use it quite often to get > "closer" to your ancestry. > > >> >>> What is the title of the published Index to theTax Rolls of 1654 for >> >> Bohemia? Sorry, if I've overlooked a cited E-mail on that question. >> Also, >> were any of the Urbarium (sp?) for Bohemia published? Specifically I'm >> looking for any property records in the Schönbach, Seifersdorf, >> Hohenelbe, >> Beneschau and Deutsch-Gabel area. I've given the German names as I'm >> still >> attempting to find the Czech diacritical marks in my fonts. >> >>> Looking for info re: Scholz, Wörfel, Heidrich, Smahal, Grützner, Erben, >> >> Kieswetter >> >>> >>> Thanks for any info, Norbert. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? >> Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > > >

"Sometimes you will have to wait a few weeks, but it is well worth it. Unfortunately, they have distorted all the original German records by translating the German names of our ancestors into Czech, especially their first names, because as you can see this record was compiled as recently as 2003." Aida, thank you for sharing your step-by-step instructions, map links and a wealth of information! Carole Soenke Carlson Sacrament, CA USAo

Aida, Thanks - from this reader of your very helpful information is hardly enough to say... While the question was posed by another, I 'I'm saving your reply content against the day that I finally have an "original" last name of our grandparents Maurice A, & Amelia DAVIS's family. We know they were from the regions you are so familiar with, but we have no direct leads as to exactly what his surname was, or where in Germany-Bohemia-Czechoslovakia-Poland-Russia-Austria-Hungary-Belarus-Latvia or Lithuania (or other country I may have overlooked altogether) such a name derivation as DAVIS might have been commonly assumed by immigrants coming to the United States in the 1880's. Your techniques for searching and knowledge of useful web-links is invaluable and your willingness to share is gratefully appreciated. Like I say, one word, "thanks" only barely covers our appreciation ... Jo Davis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 2:21 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Czech Census Searchers > The title of the tax rolls is called Berni Rula and can be requested from > your library. Here is the source. > Berni Rula Source (Census of Bohemian Population after 30 years war > 1651 - 1654 > > ISBN 80-7277-058-6 > > Author Cerveny (2003) > > Avialable on Interlibrary loan from Indiana University > > > Sometimes you will have to wait a few weeks, but it is well worth it. > Unfortunately, they have distorted all the original German records by > translating the German names of our ancestors into Czech, especially their > first names, because as you can see this record was compiled as recently > as 2003. We had Heinrich, Anton and Franz under many of our German > surnames. However, now they appear as Jindrich, Antonin and Frantisek > under a very poorly spelled last name. This requires a bit of studying to > prepare yourself for the "hunt". While my ancestors and I lived in the > old Czechoslovakia, the German settlements documents were recorded in > German and the Czech settlements documents were issued in Czech. For > English speaking people the German is far easier to read than the Czech > lettering, which is phonetic. > > If you go to a German website, like Yahoo, search for the German name, > like Schönbach and then the word Tschechien (which means Czech Republic) > and you will most likely get all the Schönbach Villages in Bohemia and > Moravia. I tried it for you and I am getting these three (see listing > below) from the German-Czech Village name Index which I am also giving > here. The German village name is given first and the one after the > colon: is the present Czech name. I don't know which one of the > Schönbachs is the village where your ancestors came from. To isolate this > information, you will have to go to the next step given below, see > "mapy.cz" > To find the new Czech name for German villages go to: > > http://www.tschechien-online.org/news/1452-ortsnamen-tschechien-liste-deutscher-bezeichnungen-tschechischer-orte-buchstabe-s/ > > a.. Schönbach (bei Deutsch Gabel): Zdislava > > a.. Schönbach im Erzgebirge: Meziborí > > a.. Schönbach (bei Wildstein): Luby > > After you have located the Czech village name, go to this website : > www.mapy.cz find the search button type in the Czech village name and > press "dalsi" (go) and a map will come up to show where the village is > located. You can focus on it with a larger view, once you have found the > general area. Since people did not travel much during the old times, you > will most likely find the villages of their mates nearby. So give it a > good look on a larger view! You can then locate the one where your > ancestors came from. If you can read a map, you can find your way through > this, even though it is in the Czech language. If you key in the > website's address into the google search button, you can ask for a > translation and follow the instructions. It is a bit of detective work, > but then this is the fun of genealogy. > There is also an old Austrian Hungarian map registry which you can > access by googling: > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm > > On these old military maps (an enlarging button and navigator is in the > right lower corner of the reduced map) all German villages are bearing > their original German names and all Czech villages are listed with their > Czech names. Since these are very old maps dating 1910 and before, you > will find more German names than Czech. But if you can find the > Longt.-Lat. coordinates, you can pinpoint every small village (even > individual houses shown by a black dot) on these old Lazarus Military > maps. They are accessible through your computer and are free. > > A word of advice! You would not want others to do this research for > you, there is personal pride involved in such a search which is highly > rewarding. You will get stuck with actual documentation, and then it will > be time to ask for research help in the Czech archives. Because this is > very expensive, this "footwork" will make the search for the prof. > genealogist shorter and less expensive to you. It is important that you > educate yourself as to the history during different centuries and that you > build a glossary for yourself to help with translations. > > I realize that you need a little guidance as to how to go about it > logically. I have found this method as something that really "works" and > it is a good way to get started. It will bring you reliable results > without chasing all over foreign websites that do not pan out. If you key > in the Czech village name into a Czech website, you most likely will get > the coordinates of the village and some photographs of the area. Just > click on the words "Photo or Gallery." > I am posting this to the List for general use. Good luck! > Aida > > PS: copy and paste these three links into a separate folder under "my > documents" for future reference, as you will use it quite often to get > "closer" to your ancestry. > > >> >>>What is the title of the published Index to theTax Rolls of 1654 for >> Bohemia? Sorry, if I've overlooked a cited E-mail on that question. >> Also, >> were any of the Urbarium (sp?) for Bohemia published? Specifically I'm >> looking for any property records in the Schönbach, Seifersdorf, >> Hohenelbe, >> Beneschau and Deutsch-Gabel area. I've given the German names as I'm >> still >> attempting to find the Czech diacritical marks in my fonts. >> >>>Looking for info re: Scholz, Wörfel, Heidrich, Smahal, Grützner, Erben, >> Kieswetter >>> >>>Thanks for any info, Norbert. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? >> Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 5/8/2006 >