Yes, I agree with you on that Bob, that it would be quite different at Saaz which is a predominantly agricultural area and where hop growing was the most profitable crop for the farmer who sold it to the Breweries. I also have never heard of a full, half or quarter farmer before! The Saaz area is close to the language border and you state that the landholders were Czechs, and this could very well be the difference. For instance, if you look at old Egerland maps the East border varies in the Saaz-Kaaden area. On some maps they are included in the Egerland, on the others they dont. So yes, this shows that there were differences! Consider also that the Egerland was far more industrial along the Eger River and towards the mountains, and "Herrenlose" meaning actually "freemen" had more privileges, albeit little or no land holdings and that held true for most people of the Jewish faith. Would you consider a Burgher who is a freemen also a "Herrenloser" ? Would Jewish people be considered in that category because they were not allowed to own property for a very long time within the Austrian Hungarian Empire? So, it stands to reason that if you have Jewish ancestors, you have to be particularly careful to find Austrian Hungarian laws governing restrictions or privileges, because after the Ausgleich in 1866 there were many Jewish hotel and factory owners in the Egerland right up to my growing years. Therefore, it is of utmost importance that the researcher develops a good "geographical" knowledge of the area of his research, and he must read up on Austrian Hungarian laws rather than trying to make sense of German or Czech websites. I begin to think that this is why the Berni Rula was created in alphabetical order. So lets use it, by all means! An employee or serf of a noble would certainly carry a different kind of definition for 'Häusler" or "Cottager" than the "Häusler" having a small farm. THAT really puts a monkey wrench into the definition of a "Häusler". And I can prove this, as I have original documents where they are named as "Häusler" while they owned house and land and are listed in the Berni Rula! ... So what we see here is that this Häusler title is used in different ways. That certainly does not make it as easy as we would like it. Actually, I have encountered the same (as Bob mentioned) in the Southwest of Bohemia, where Czech nobles were given administrative rights to agricultural land. It was not so in the Egerland heartland which is far more industrial towards the mountains, and at the same time it also was the area for the international Jetset for their pleasures at the spas and/or health treatments. The large untouched areas of forests and parklike settings supported this hospitality business extremely well. The industrial sites, namely the coal mines were far enough away and toy-making, musical instrument manufacture, glass blowing, lace making, various other home industries or mining in the mountains where in the higher regions where all but the hardiest crops failed anyway. Just look at the rich brown coal mines in the Falkenau area and Uranium mines at Joachimsthal! The porcelain factories around the Zettlitz Kaolin works were supported by art schools and the entire Eger Corridor was a bustling international place. So what can we advise, Bob? And Karen what would you say? That we have to take region for region, that the Berni Rula here will be a very necessary tool to establish property owners, and that those that believe that their ancestors were serfs on an estate should most likely go after the registers of those Nobles? I can see that it probably will be easier to find such people when a Czech Noble administered the area, but what about some of the Gutshöfe of the German nobles who were expelled also? I doubt that they had the time and means to haul out ancient records! I am not surprised that nearly all of us are getting stuck at one point or other. Please share your experiences where you searched with positive results. Aida ------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Ullman" <ullman@easystreet.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 10:47 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Fw: Gärtner-Häusler-Hausbesitzer > The discussion of peasant landholdings and responsibilites covers a huge > field. My own ancestors were from the southern Saazer Kreis, a bit unlike > most of the Egerland in that it was much more of a mix of Germans and > Czechs. In fact the lords of my ancestors' estate were members of a very > old Czech family. Based on this we might imagine that what Aida has > stated about the Egerland would apply differently in the Saaz. > Surprisingly, the amount of land held and the taxes owed often varied not > only from Kreis to Kreis or estate to estate, but, as you can see in the > quotation which follows, even with an estate! > > from "Noble Landowners and Agriculture in Austria, 1918-1848: A study in > the origins of the peasant emancipation of 1848," by Jerome Blum, the > Johns Hopkins Press, 1948. > pages 68-9 - Peasant Tenures - Dues and Obligations > The land occupied by the peasants was divided into units called by > various names. A peasant might hold a full unit, or more probably, a part > of a unit, down to a quarter or an eighth. Still smaller holdings were > occupied by cotters. The services and dues, especially the labor service, > which were required of the peasant depended, in general, upon the share of > the unit which he held. The peasant who occupied a whole unit was known > as a "Ganzbauer," the holder of a half unit was a Halb-bauer, and so on > (note - estate records show that my own ancestors were originally > Halb-bauers - ru). There were actually large variations between the amount > and yield of land held by peasants of the same status. This variation was > found not only between provinces and between different areas of an > individual province, but even within a single manor. On such an estate > one "Ganzbauer" might have 50 or more yokes of land in his possession > while a neighboring "Ganzbauer" had only half as much. Yet the services > required of the two men were identical....The type and the amount of the > obligation the peasant owed his lord varied between the provinces and also > within the individual province. The diversity of the obligations and their > number were revealed during the process of emancipation after 1848. Thus, > in Moravia 246 different types of money payments alone were reported. > > Concerning the paying of taxes and "robota," things changed greatly as a > "proto-industrial" revolution began to take hold in Bohemia during the the > 18th century. The rise of a landless class ("herrenlose") is described in > the following quotation from "Absolutism and the eighteenth-century > origins of compulsory schooling in Prussia and Austria," by James Van Horn > Melton, Cambridge Univ. Press, 1988. > > Pages 123-5 - The Labor Force > For the most part...proto-industrial production was centered in the > countryside, where the absence of guilds made for a more elastic labor > market. Moreover, seasonal fluctuations in the agricultural labor market > left the rural population free to spin or weave during much of the year. > Rural labor was also cheaper: The cost of living was lower in the > countryside, and because many rural laborers still derived a part of their > income from agriculture, the entrepreneur could pay lower wages than would > have been required had the laborers depended on industry alone for their > subsistence. > The labor force in rural manufacturing consisted largely of land-poor > households dependent upon non-agricultural pursuits for their subsistence. > The number of these households grew steadily in eighteenth-century Prussia > and Austria and constituted most of the rural population. Some were > so-called lodgers ("Einlieger" or "Inleute"), who roomed with and were > subject to the authority of more prosperous rural households. Most were > gardeners ("Gartner") and cotters ("Hausler") who owned little or no land > and lived on the physical and social fringes of the village community.... > Rural manufacturing further hastened the growth of a subpeasant stratum > by encouraging peasant displacement ("Bauernlegen"). In the eighteenth > century, peasant displacement was most common in regions like Bohemia, > Silesia, and East Prussia, where labor services were the predominant form > of seignorial rent. Peasant displacement had been rare as long as > peasants had few sources of income outside of agriculture. After all, the > use of peasant labor on siegnorial demesne was possible only as long as > the peasant household could subsist off its own holding. > Page 146 - The crisis of seigniorial authority > ...economic changes in the countryside had begun to belie many of the > cherished assumptions of seigniorial paternalism...the rapid expansion of > a land-poor, subpeasant stratum was creating a "herrenlose" class only > loosely bound by seigniorial ties. A lack of land made this group less > subject to the juridical authority of the lord, while the growing > availability of employment in rural industry further increased their > independence from seigniorial control. The landless laborer's > relationship to seigniorial authority was far more ambigious than that of > the peasant, whose plot of land concretely defined his feudal obligations. > > Bob Ullman > ullman@easystreet.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 4:33 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Fw: Gärtner-Häusler-Hausbesitzer > > > All the above titles means that they are property owners in the Egerland. > Perhaps individual nobles had different types of serfs for whom they > provided a living space, but that would be for the minority of the > Egerland > population. So we should not assume that our ancestors were "serfs" but > most likely did certain tasks in lieu of paying taxes. I have never > encountered this in my own ancestral search, as they are all listed in the > Berni Rula as property owners. And they appear in the Berni rula with > the > various description or titles of Owner, Farmer, Cottager and Gardener. > If you walked through a village in Bohemia, you would see that there > are as many different sized properties, as you'll find anywhere. The only > difference is that the farms are all clustered together into a village and > their fields are on the periphery. A farm that stood by itself was usually > a > "Gut" or a "Hof" and had larger and more buildings, they are very old land > holdings. > Now here is what I know from researching my own ancestors and at > first, > my opinion of Häusler and Gardener was just like yours, until I found out > that they were actually owners of these places and had to pay taxes. I > have > several original documents and one ancestor is listed as Bürger und > Schuhmacher (burgher and shoemaker) at Petschau and they owned that house > and a large garden. There was a castle at Petschau, and I believe that the > Beauforts lived there. If anyone offspring of these Nobles reads this, > please enlighted us about the status of the common population! > There is a Bürger und Uhrmacher (burgher and watchmaker) at the town of > Marienbad in my family, and while he himself at the time of his marriage > is > not listed as Hausbesitzer (Owner), his father owned 3 hotels. There > is > one Wundarzt (surgeon) at Donawitz and there is no listing that he was > either a Burgher or Owner. There is a Häusler" (cottager) at > Neumetternich > near Marienbad who owned his place and married a "Bauerntochter" (farmer's > daughter) from Dürrmaul, they owned a very substantial Tudor "cottage" > until they were expelled. There is a "Hausbesitzer" at Schönthal (which > was > a large village) who owned a "Hof" (large farm) where the family lived > until > expellation. They were original settlers and mentioned in the Chronic and > the Berni Rula. There are several other family members who lived in the > Egerland and were given the title "Häusler," but all these were well > built > stone or brick houses with basement and 2 stories... and were still in the > family when they were expelled. > What we have to do here is to pay attention to the area where they > lived and who administered the area. We have to search and ask: was the > land they lived on belonging to a cloister, a noble, a landholding of a > nearby City, or very old settlers property. The latter can lead far back, > probably to 1100-1300, for which there may be no records. The Catholic > Church appears in the 12th century, but somewhat earlier in the Prag and > Budweis areas. It would be best to get in touch with the expelled people, > who maintain "Heimatstuben" in Germany and request a name list of early > settlers of that particular village from their Chronic. Most of the > original record keepers have passed on, but there are contact people for > the > individual villages. Go to a German website.....and www.yahoo.de is a > good > one, put the German name of your ancestor's village in the URL and see > what > comes up. Some of them are better than others. I presume that you have > checked the Rootsweb first! > Do not be too optimistic to get at any of the Chronics! Unfortunately, > I > must warn you here, that some of these irreplaceable records found their > end > buried in manure piles because of names recorded there during the Nazi > occupation. The person in charge of these documents was most likely a > Party > member destroying evidence. Had the Czechs found a Chronic in a village > where names were recorded who held offices during the Hitler regime, the > executions would have hit even more ferociously. So don't place too much > hope on finding these. You will be luckiest with those villages closest to > the Bavarian Border, because the people hightailed out of there in a > hurry, > taking the entire village archives along - like the people of Eger, for > instance - and in most cases the US occupational Forces provided their > transportation. > The records of the Berni Rula will show all your ancestors that were > propertied it 1651. > If your ancestor came from the Budweis and Pilsen area it just might be > a little different than the situation in the Egerland because there is a > different historical background. The Egerland was not Bohemia originally, > it was part of the Oberpfalz, and that was and still is to this day: > Bavaria. > How to locate the Egerland correctl, that I will put into a different > Email. > Aida > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steven and Susan Karides" <karides@sbcglobal.net> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 1:45 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Fw: Gärtner-Häusler-Hausbesitzer > > >> >> On May 15, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Aida Kraus wrote: >> >> A "Bauer" is farmer with a full spread, "Häusler" is most likely a >> craftsman operating a smaller farm, "Gardener" is employed elsewhere and >> just grows his vegetables and raises small animals around the house he >> owns, and a "Hausbesitzer" is a Burgher in a town, a free man >> >> >>> The definition of a "Haeusler" in William E. Wrights "Serf, Seigneur >>> and Sovereign..Agararian Reform in Eighteenth-Century Bohemia" is >>> summed up in his passage(p 17): " Further peasant ranks included >>> cotters (Haeusler) and servants or day laborers (Inleute). These >>> usually held no land other than gardens adjacent to their houses. They >>> supported themselves and their families by working for their wages or >>> payment in kind. Their obligations to the lord were usually >>> considerably fewer than those of the land- holding peasants." I had >>> always construed that to mean that they did now own any land, including >>> the house in which they lived. Is that correct? I have lots of >>> Haeuslers in the 1700s and early 1800s. Thanks for all your knowledge >>> that you so unselfishly share! >> >> Susan >> >> >> >>> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >>> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >>> list? To browse the archives, go to: http:// >>> archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ >>> >> >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? >> Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN >