There is a connection, obviously. I would bet that the frame is of a later date than the picture and it might have been sent or given at a visit from here as a gift their American family. The attitude between the new Czechoslovakia and America was very friendly and supportive. A lot of American money was invested in the newly established Republic in 1918, which was to function with the same ethnic tolerance as visualized here in America. The problem, however is, that people will be people anywhere, because just as there was a discrimination against black people in this country, then, so there was a discrimination against German people in this newly formed Czechoslovakia of 1918, and that is what opened to doors to the occupation by Hitler in 1938, but only AFTER the Austrian homeland had fallen to him in March of that year. The Sudetenland fell in October 1938. The inner portion with Czech/German settlements was called the "Protectorate" and the people living therein had actually certain privileges, which we Sudetengermans living in the German areas did not have. One of which was obligatory military service, obligatory attendance to Nazi school programs and for every 18 year old German boy or girl a year of Reichsarbeitsdienst, which was a Labor Service to the German community. It was only after the assassination of Hydrich at Prague (instigated from England and executed by paratroopers - and NOT by these much too peaceful Czech residents who irked their Czech exiled government in England) that harsh retaliations were taken against all involved in that incident. At that time, all Czech students at the Universities were denied continuation of their education and removed from there to the munition factories in Germany. The time frame for this is: Assassination of Hydrich 1942, end of war 1945. The Czech students were deported in Fall 1942 and came back home with privileged status in May of 1945 to continue or finish their studies. I had many friends among this group. We compared notes later, and agreed that the misery for the Sudetengermans lasted a lot longer than their 2 1/2 years of internment. Firstly there was the occupation in 1938, then the draft of all German men to the German military, even those who served in the Czech military at that time, also all young German men and women being drafted to the Reichsarbeitsdienst, and any Sudetengerman of anti-fascist standing was transported to the KZ lagers for many years. The war started in 1939 and ended in 1945, the expulsion - if they survived it - was in 1946, and the expelled people lived in refugee camps in Germany well into 1950 before housing and work could be found for them in the bombed-out rubble of German cities. Our hunger years were from 1942 until 1948. So, the average Sudetengerman Expellee lived from 1938 until 1950, that is 12 years, in one kind of hell or another. If some of your ancestors do not want to talk about this time, it is understandable to me, because they were adults who carried the total burden and they were distraught far more than we, who were children at the time. Perhaps it is of service, that there are eyewitnesses left, like a few of us to bring this era into factual focus. Aida You can read about Hydrich here and I remember that it was mentioned that he was not entirely of Arian ancestry and somewhat of an embarrassment to the Nazis themselves. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Heydrich On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 7:13 AM, PJ Vazquez <[email protected]> wrote: > > I have doubt that it could be stamped after it was assembled without > damaging the frame since the metal was very soft and thin. > > > > Any way it is a puzzle to me since I've never seen a frame like this before > and since I do have ancestors who were in Czechoslovakia at the time of WWI, > it makes me wonder if there is a connection. > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 22:52:47 -0400 > > From: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Ornate photo frame "M. Czecho-slovakia" > > > > > > To the best of my knowledge, this attitude was taken from the very > beginning. It's possible the stamp was applied outside the country. It seems > logical that if the item was stamped inside Czechoslovakia it would have > said Ceskoslovensko. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: PJ Vazquez <[email protected]> > > To: Roots Bohemian <[email protected]> > > Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 10:39 pm > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Ornate photo frame "M. Czecho-slovakia" > > > > > > > > That's very interesting. I wonder if there is a certain time frame when > that > > was going on? The photo frame is very finely made with the back having > it's own > > stand attached and little prongs that lift up to open the back to put the > photo > > in place. > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 22:32:46 -0400 > > > From: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Ornate photo frame "M. Czecho-slovakia" > > > > > > > > > When Czechoslovakia was first formed, a number of Slovaks felt they > should > > have more autonomy and contended that the name of the country should be > > hyphenated. Of course, this never happened. However, through the years > > supporters of this faction continued to spell the name of the country > > Czecho-Slovakia in English. There is great evidence of this in some > > Slovak/English newspapers and other publications in the US. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Aida Kraus <[email protected]> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Mon, Apr 26, 2010 5:50 pm > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Ornate photo frame "M. Czecho-slovakia" > > > > > > > > > Who knows, Pam! One would need to know how old the picture is and how > old > > > the frame is, that might give us a bit more to go on. It is definitely > odd > > > that there is a dash, although Bohemia, Moravia and Slovakia are three > > > different countries which were all part of Austria Hungary. Slovakia > was > > > more Hungary oriented, but Moravia and Bohemia were definitely Austria > > > oriented. Bohemia was a Kingdom and Moravia a Margravate both within > the > > > Empire > > > Aida > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 2:29 PM, PJ Vazquez <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Aida and Frank, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did think it odd that the name of the country was spelled with the > dash. > > > > However, why would they put that stamp on there outside the country? > > > > Could there have been confusion in the beginning about the way to > spell > > > > Czechoslovakia? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am still wondering if the photo was from a relative that lived in > > > > Czechoslovakia or if this frame had been sold in Germany then it > could have > > > > been a different relation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:37:12 -0700 > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Ornate photo frame "M. > Czecho-slovakia" > > > > > > > > > > I think you are dead right, Frank, because there is a dash between > Czecho > > > > > and slovakia. That was put on it outside the country, because > anything > > > > > produced after 1918 would have Czechoslovakia (one word) on it. > > > > > Aida > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Frank Soural <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For what it's worth: > > > > > > "M. Czecho-slovakia" is actually an English expression. It may > have > > > > been > > > > > > made in Czecho - but produced for the English speaking world. > > > > > > The M. could be a symbol for "made" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aida: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The photo has no identification as to who the person is. The only > > > > reason > > > > > > I think that it might be from my Bohemian ancestors is the fact > that > > > > the > > > > > > frame appears to be made in "M. Czecho-slovakia" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Bohemian ancestors emigrated in 1878 from Oberberzdorf near > > > > Reichenberg. > > > > > > They were Wohlmann, and Herrmann. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you say makes me wonder if perhaps the photo could have been > one > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > sons who did not emigrate in 1878 with the parents and 3 young > > > > children. > > > > > > My gr gr grandfather had a set of older children with his first > wife. > > > > > > So > > > > > > perhaps one of them sent the picture. The frame could have been > newer > > > > > > than > > > > > > the photo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:25:40 -0700 > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Ornate photo frame "M. > > > > Czecho-slovakia" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pam: The term "Czechoslovakia" was coined in 1918, not before. > The > > > > > > picture > > > > > > > looks older, I would say before that time. One would need to > know for > > > > > > what > > > > > > > purpose this picture was taken. In 1878 your ancestors were > Austrian > > > > > > > Hungarians from Bohemia or Moravia. I don't know what this M > stands > > > > for, > > > > > > > unless they were from Moravia, instead of Bohemia, do you know? > > > > Bohemia, > > > > > > > Moravia and Slovakia were combined to form a new country from > > > > Austrian > > > > > > > monarchical lands and they called this combined area the > Republic of > > > > > > > Czechoslovakia, as of 1918. The men's fashion in that picture > looks > > > > to me > > > > > > > like pre-WW1 (1914-1918), because after WW1 they did not wear > these > > > > > > pointed > > > > > > > collars anymore. They had starched white shirt collars without > the > > > > > > points, > > > > > > > but the collar then, was still separate from the shirt and was > > > > delivered > > > > > > > from the laundry in a round satchel. Then, in the late 1920 > they > > > > started > > > > > > to > > > > > > > have regular men's shirts, pretty much the way they are now, > but > > > > still > > > > > > VERY > > > > > > > starched. Do you know the person in that picture and what was > the > > > > reason > > > > > > > for this photograph? Usually they photographed groom and bride > > > > separately > > > > > > > as well as together at the wedding photographer, or it might > have > > > > been > > > > > > for > > > > > > a > > > > > > > professional promotion, or perhaps even an enlargement of a > passport > > > > > > photo?, > > > > > > > But it could also be that someone brought a frame from what was > > > > already > > > > > > > Czechoslovakia and gave it to your relatives and they put an > old > > > > picture > > > > > > in > > > > > > > it. Do you know? > > > > > > > Aida > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 5:00 PM, PJ Vazquez < > [email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among my family's old photos there is a very old looking > ornate > > > > frame > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > an old photo. The person is not identified. On the back of > the > > > > frame > > > > > > > > there is a stamping "M. Czecho-slovakia". I wonder if any one > knows > > > > > > what > > > > > > > > that means? What does the "M" stand for? At what time period > would > > > > > > > > Bohemia have been called as such? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My ancestors emigrated from Librec area 1878. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a link to see the photo: I hope it will work for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/PJ2004/Geneology/MCzecho-slovakia.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Pam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > > > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > > the > > > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > > without > > > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > > > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > > > the message > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > > the message > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > > the message > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >