There are two Ober-Berzdorf, one called Horni Pertoltice near Friedland, the other is near Reichenberg (Liberec) and the one you are looking for. Oberberzdorf is now called Horni Sucha. For location go to this link, it will bring up the historical German map. The link to it is: http://www.mapy.cz/#[email protected][email protected][email protected]=Horni%[email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected]=11 At present, it is practically a suburb of Reichenberg (Liberec). You can also key in "Horni Sucha" in your browser at Google and request the translation of the webpage for the history. The Wohlmanns and Herrmanns of your ancestry were obviously Germans, so their families were expelled to Germany in 1945, after WW2, all their property was confiscated then, so you will hardly find anyone of your family there remaining, unless their offsprings were married to Czech nationals. You can find that in the church registers also. The Berzdorf and Oberberzdorf church records were administered at Kratzau between 1650 and 1756, and from then on they were in the registers as listed below. All these tomes are available in the Czech archives on microfilm and perhaps very soon on the internet. Pay attention to the "Buch numbers" those are Church Tomes (Registers) --- see where you can find Oberberzdorf and copy the Tomes (Buch Nos). You will have to look in these register to find Wohlmann and Herrmann. Aida This is what is available: 3 C * 1718-1746 i/s Reichenberg, Alt- u. Neu-Harzdorf, Alt- u. Neu-Paulsdorf, oo 1718-1754 Johannesthal, Franzendorf, Rosenthal, Berzdorf, Ruppersdorf, Rudolfsthal, Alt-Habendorf, Schwarau, Sch�nborn, Ratschendorf, Katharinberg 4 D * 1747-1765 i/s Orte wie Buch 3 oo 1755-1770 5 E * 1766-1770 i/s Orte wie Buch 3 6 F * 1771-1780 i/s Reichenberg, Alt- u. Neu-Harzdorf, Rosenthal, Johannesthal, Franzendorf, Berzdorf, Karolinsfeld, Alt- u. Neu-Paulsdorf, Ruppersdorf, Rudolfsthal 7 G * 1781-1784 i/s Orte wie Buch 6, mit Oberberzdorf 8 H * 1784-1787 i/s Orte wie Buch 7, Oberberzdorf nur 1787 9 K * 1788-1793 i/s Orte wie Buch 7 10 M * 1794-1798 i/s Neu-Harzdorf, Alt- u. Neu-Paulsdorf, Berzdorf, Oberberzdorf, Karolinsfeld, Franzendorf, Johannesthal, Rosenthal, Rudolfsthal, Ruppersdorf 1793-1798 Alt-Harzdorf 11 IIa oo 1771-1784 i/s Orte wie Buch 6 12 IIb oo 1784-1798 i/s Reichenberg 1784-1793 Alt- u. Neu-Harzdorf, Alt- u. Neu-Paulsdorf, Berzdorf, Karolinsfeld, Franzendorf, Johannesthal, Rosenthal, Rudolfsthal, Ruppersdorf 1787-1793 Oberberzdorf 13 IID oo 1793-1811 i/s Orte wie Buch 10 14 IIE oo 1812-1828 i/s Berzdorf, Franzendorf, Rudolfsthal 1812-1829 Ruppersdorf, Alt-Habendorf 1812-1830 Neu-Harzdorf, Johannesthal, Katharinberg, Ratschendorf 1812-1831 Neu-Paulsdorf 1812-1832 Alt-Harzdorf, Karolinsfeld 1812-1834 Oberberzdorf, Rosenthal 1812-1835 Sch�nborn, Schwarau 1812-1836 Alt-Paulsdorf 1812-1838 Neuhabendorf 15 IIIA + 1706-1718 i/s Orte wie Buch 6 1731-1746 1731-1771 Alt-Habendorf, Katharinberg, Sch�nborn, Ratschendorf, Schwarau 16 IIIB + 1747-1751 i/s Orte wie Buch 6 17 IIIC + 1752-1762 i/s Orte wie Buch 6 18 IIID + 1763-1771 i/s Orte wie Buch 6 19 IIIE + 1771-1784 i/s Orte wie Buch 6 20 IIIG + 1784-1793 i/s Orte wie Buch 6 1787-1793 Oberberzdorf 21 IIIL + 1793-1804 i/s Orte wie Buch 10 22 IIIM + 1805-1810 i/s Orte wie Buch 10 23 IIIN + 1811-1822 i/s Orte wie Buch 10 24 IIIO + 1823-1835 i/s Alt-Harzdorf, Neu-Paulsdorf, Johannesthal 1823-1837 Neu-Harzdorf, Ruppersdorf 1823-1839 Oberberzdorf 1823-1841 Alt-Paulsdorf, Karolinsfeld 1823-1842 Berzdorf, Franzendorf, Rosenthal, Rudolfsthal On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 4:03 PM, PJ Vazquez <[email protected]> wrote: > > Aida: > > > > The photo has no identification as to who the person is. The only reason > I think that it might be from my Bohemian ancestors is the fact that the > frame appears to be made in "M. Czecho-slovakia" > > > > My Bohemian ancestors emigrated in 1878 from Oberberzdorf near Reichenberg. > They were Wohlmann, and Herrmann. > > > > What you say makes me wonder if perhaps the photo could have been one of > the sons who did not emigrate in 1878 with the parents and 3 young children. > My gr gr grandfather had a set of older children with his first wife. > So perhaps one of them sent the picture. The frame could have been newer > than the photo. > > > > Thanks, Pam > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:25:40 -0700 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Ornate photo frame "M. Czecho-slovakia" > > > > Pam: The term "Czechoslovakia" was coined in 1918, not before. The > picture > > looks older, I would say before that time. One would need to know for > what > > purpose this picture was taken. In 1878 your ancestors were Austrian > > Hungarians from Bohemia or Moravia. I don't know what this M stands for, > > unless they were from Moravia, instead of Bohemia, do you know? Bohemia, > > Moravia and Slovakia were combined to form a new country from Austrian > > monarchical lands and they called this combined area the Republic of > > Czechoslovakia, as of 1918. The men's fashion in that picture looks to me > > like pre-WW1 (1914-1918), because after WW1 they did not wear these > pointed > > collars anymore. They had starched white shirt collars without the > points, > > but the collar then, was still separate from the shirt and was delivered > > from the laundry in a round satchel. Then, in the late 1920 they started > to > > have regular men's shirts, pretty much the way they are now, but still > VERY > > starched. Do you know the person in that picture and what was the reason > > for this photograph? Usually they photographed groom and bride separately > > as well as together at the wedding photographer, or it might have been > for a > > professional promotion, or perhaps even an enlargement of a passport > photo?, > > But it could also be that someone brought a frame from what was already > > Czechoslovakia and gave it to your relatives and they put an old picture > in > > it. Do you know? > > Aida > > > > On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 5:00 PM, PJ Vazquez <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > Among my family's old photos there is a very old looking ornate frame > with > > > an old photo. The person is not identified. On the back of the frame > > > there is a stamping "M. Czecho-slovakia". I wonder if any one knows > what > > > that means? What does the "M" stand for? At what time period would > > > Bohemia have been called as such? > > > > > > > > > > > > My ancestors emigrated from Librec area 1878. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a link to see the photo: I hope it will work for you. > > > > > > > > > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/PJ2004/Geneology/MCzecho-slovakia.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Pam > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >