Dear Marg, pay attention to house numbers if they are given in these records. Often I had difficulties matching family members, but the same house numbers were finally the key to the family structure. Also pay attention to where they were born and died, and what they recorded in the marriage records. The reoccurring house number will give you the clue who belongs to whom. Often you do not need to understand or read the words, but the dates, names, location and house numbers are often enough to make the families mesh. I found it of valuable help to take a register and sketch out the birth, marriage and death registers under the same name by house number, because most of our families in Bohemia lived for several generations in the same house. They did not move as much in a generation as we are doing now, because then the family unit was strongly bound together by the need of making a living from their residence, be it either as a farm or a craft, especially if they were of the Catholic faith. You are well on the way and the location of records in the various churches of the vicinity will give you the years of where you should search. Good luck! Aida On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Marg McEuen <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks, Aida. > > I have had the mentioned records searched and my Gt-Grandmother, (Theresia > KAHABKA, b. 1839 in Domaslav) and her ancesters found back to Laurenz > (Anton, b. 1808 in Millikau, Martin, b. abt. 1772 possibly in Setlaw, > Laurenz who may have been from Setzlaw from a birth record of one of my > gt-grandmother's uncles, another child of Martin). Theresia's grandfather, > Martin's, birth record was not found though his father was recorded as > Laurenz from Setzlaw and his mother as Katharina from Zebau on another of > Martin's children's birth records. That child was a brother of Anton, > Theresia's father. > > Neither of us has found Martin's birth record for around 1773. Martin > married Anna Maria Ziegler from Wolfersdorf (Olbranov) around 1797 (record > ot found either) and they had their first child found in the records at > Millikau, just NW of Domaslov in Nov 1798. Their wedding record hasn't been > found yet, though I am now trying to sort out the Zieglers in Wolfersdorf > and > surrounding area in the Horni Kozolupy records. > > Before that, I checked the Celiv Records which do go back to some of the > 1600s. I have found the Kahabka/Kahapka name back to the mid 1600s. I need > to recheck some of them as you say, they are very hard to read. And it is > frustrating that so many records were lost in various wars, especially the > 30 years war, but that also happened in many places. > > I have been curious about the name for many years and have been hoping to > find out more about it. All of my grandmother's other ancestor's names are > German sounding, except perhaps HABLA from Leskau, and all came from around > the Wezeritz - Domaschlag area - Leskau, Wolfersdorf, Pottin, Harlosee, > Saduba, (Grandmother born there), Wikau, Hinterkotten, and a few others. I, > too, have wondered if the KAHABKA name could be Slavic. > > I am very sorry that I never learned German, though my father spoke it. I > am second generation removed from Bohemia. My grandmother passed away when > I was in > High School at age 92, so I never asked her any questions about her life > in Bohemia. She came to Napa, CA in 1886 at age 18 to help a cousin. Her > parents, Franz KUNZL and Theresia KAHABKA came to KS from Saduba in 1887 and > then went to OK by 1898 where Franz died. I found the KAHABKA surname on > her death certificate, also from Napa, CA from May 1914 about 30 years ago, > but have only been able to do research (or have it done) in Bohemia the last > two years, since I've been retired. My Grandmother's only two brothers who > lived to adulthood came to KS and OK with their parents, but neither had any > descendants to question either. So I am depending on the records to find > what I can and have been intensely working on this line for over 2 years now > and appreciate all the help you and the Bohemian-German Message Board give. > Marg McEuen > > > --- On Fri, 4/2/10, Aida Kraus <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: Aida Kraus <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Origin of Kahabka surname > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 9:55 AM > > Marg, first of all, there are hardly any records left before 1600 due to > the 30 years religious wars between Protestants > and Catholics, who burned > each other's churches between 1618 and 1648. Obviously you have been > searching in the correct registers and since that name is recorded there, I > am sure that you found the right place. The writing and the German makes > it > difficult for you to connect the dots and I think you need help. Go about > this way.... obviously you have the date and name of your Great > grandmother. > Was Boehmisch Domaschlag (Domaslav) or any of the parishes administered > from > there her birthplace? If the answer is yes, you should find her birth > record in the administrative parish. In copying what is available (and > where!) for the village of Boehmisch Domaschlag, you can see below that > prior to 1708 the registers were kept at Leskau, while the village of > Veitsmühle was recorded in the parish of Tscheliv and Saduba in > Tschernoschin. This area had a mixed population of Czechs and Germans who > were > in the majority Catholics. > Sometimes the writing is so sloppy in these registers that you will > have to enlarge it. What you cannot understand, but what you can decipher, > you can translate using this translation link: > http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en > I know it is tedious work, this work of love, but do not give up. Allow > about 20-25 years between generations, and start at the birth register for > your Great Grandmother or a sibling of which you know the name and > birthdate. Pay attention to the place of birth and a house number! > Usually > the priest recorded the place and house number of the birth and the name of > father and mother. Write it down..... Then count backwards about 20 > years > and go to the marriage register and see if you can match them in this way. > In > the marriage register they usually list the parents of the couple and > you can go back another 20-25 years to their records.... > I hope this will help if you just look at names, dates, places and > whatever else is written you can use the translator for understanding. > Hope > this will help you! > Aida > To our readers: > The Kahapka name sounds Slavic, can anyone find its meaning or a slavic > stemword in it? > > Archival findings on Boehmisch Domaschlag: > > - Vikariat Plan. Matriken ab 1708, vorher in > *Leskau*<http://www.genealogy.net/reg/SUD/kb/leskau.html>. > Titel der Pfarrkirche: Hl. Ap. Jakobus d.Ä. > Die Pfarrei umfaßte im Jahr 1938 folgende Orte (alle im > Gerichtsbezirk > Weseritz): > Böhmisch Domaschlag, Lohm, Milikau, Saduba. > 1930 zählte sie 551 Katholiken und 5 Nichtkatholiken. > - Die Einschicht *Veitsmühle* der Gemeinde Böhmisch Domaschlag gehörte > zu > Pfarrei Tscheliv <http://www.genealogy.net/reg/SUD/kb/tscheliv.html>. > - *Saduba*: die Einschicht Drahwitz der Gemeinde Sadube gehörte zu > Pfarrei > Tschernoschin <http://www.genealogy.net/reg/SUD/kb/tschernoschin.html>. > > Band Film Matriken-Art Gemeinden Jahrgänge von/bis > > 1 SM 69 * oo + B�hmisch Domaschlag, 1708-1771 > i/s > Lohm, Saduba > 2 SM * oo + Pfarrbezirk 1771-1784 i/s > > 3 * Pfarrbezirk 1784-1829 i/s > 5 * Pfarrbezirk 1829-1844 i/s > 8 * Pfarrbezirk 1845-1876 i/s > > 4 SM oo Pfarrbezirk 1784-1856 > 9 oo > Pfarrbezirk 1784-1904 ? > 10 oo B�hmisch Domaschlag 1868-1903 > > 6 SM + Pfarrbezirk 1784-1850 > > 7 Index * Pfarrbezirk 1708-1946 > > > Abkürzungen: > * = births, baptisms / Geburts- oder Tauf-Buch bzw. -Matrik > oo = marriages / Heirats- oder Trau-Buch bzw. -Matrik > + = deaths, burials / Sterbe-Buch bzw. -Matrik, Beerdigungen > i = this section indexed, at least partially / > mit Register/Namens-Index (alphabetisch), mindestens teilweise > i/s = > separates Buch mit Index > > > Ortsname deutsch / tschechisch:B�hmisch Domaschlag > <http://www.genealogy.net/reg/SUD/orte/B.html#boehm> = Česk� Domaslav, > jetzt: Domaslav, seit 1961 zu Lestkov (=Leskau) > Lohm = Lomy > Saduba = Z�dub > Milikau = Milkov > Weseritz <http://www.genealogy.net/reg/SUD/orte/W.html#weseritz> > = Bezdružice > > > > ------------------------------------- > > > On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Marg McEuen <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hello. I have been following the links > about the German History with great > > interest. Thank you for posting them. I have been trying to find the > > origin of the KAHABKA surname, sometimes spelled KAHAPKA in the older > > records. My Gt-Grandmother was Theresia KAHABKA, b. 1839 in Boehmisch > > Domaschlag, now called Domaslav and is annexed to Leskov just E. of > Plana. > > In checking the records at Celiv and Bezdruzice, now on-line from the > Pilzn > > Archives, I find several KAHABKA families in those areas back to the mid > > 1600s, but have been unable to connect them to my Gt-Grandmother (Anton, > > Martin (possibly from Setzlaw), Lorenz). Do any of you have any ideas > about > > where the KAHABKAs may have been before the mid 1600s and/or the origin > of > > the surname? Thanks for any help. I do not read German, so it is hard to > > decipher some of the histories, but can figure out a little from them. > Marg > > McEuen > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Aida.  Yes, I've been watching the house numbers when they have been given and putting families together that way.  I'm putting them into Roots Magic to see if I can connect the families.  I'm running into trouble when the house numbers are not given, as in the earlier records, especially with so many similar first names.  They all seem to have been Catholic as far back as I've found records.  One line of KHABAKAs were all carpenters too, but I haven't been able to connect them yet.  My line were mostly farmers or cottagers.  A lot of the earlier (mid 1700s and back) records say either "Principi  de Lowenstein" or "Subditi  Comitis de Zinsendorff".  I have been trying to find out more about these as I think they are Estates in the former feudal system that lasted over half of the 1700s.  Do you know where I could find out more about these Estates?  I have been looking on-line, but so far I haven't found out much.  Are there Estate records or any land records that could be checked?  Would the Berni Rula show anything for peasants if it were checked to see if the KAHABKA name shows up in any of the villages where they might have been earlier than the records from Celiv?  I really appreciate your help as you have so much knowledge about the records.  Marg --- On Mon, 4/5/10, Aida Kraus <[email protected]> wrote: From: Aida Kraus <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Origin of Kahabka surname To: [email protected] Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 11:07 AM Dear Marg, pay attention to house numbers if they are given in these records.  Often I had difficulties matching family members, but the  same house numbers were finally the key to the family structure.  Also pay attention to where they were born and died, and what they recorded in the marriage records. The reoccurring house number will give you the clue who belongs to whom.   Often you do not need to understand or read the words, but the dates, names, location and house numbers are often enough to make the families mesh.  I found it of valuable help to take a register and sketch out the birth, marriage and death registers under the same name by house number, because most of our families in Bohemia lived for several generations in the same house.  They did not move as much in a generation as we are doing now, because then the family unit was strongly bound together by the need of making a living from their residence, be it either as a farm or a craft, especially if they were of the Catholic faith.    You are well on the way and the location of records in the various churches of the vicinity will give you the years of where you should search.    Good luck! Aida On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Marg McEuen <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks, Aida. > > I have had the mentioned records searched and my Gt-Grandmother, (Theresia > KAHABKA, b. 1839 in Domaslav) and her ancesters found back to Laurenz > (Anton, b. 1808 in Millikau, Martin, b. abt. 1772 possibly in Setlaw, > Laurenz  who may have been from Setzlaw from a birth record of one of my > gt-grandmother's uncles, another child of Martin).  Theresia's  grandfather, > Martin's, birth record was not found though his father was recorded as > Laurenz from Setzlaw and his mother as Katharina from Zebau on another of > Martin's children's birth records.   That child was a brother of Anton, > Theresia's father. > > Neither of us has found Martin's birth record for around 1773.  Martin > married Anna Maria Ziegler from Wolfersdorf  (Olbranov) around 1797 (record > ot found either) and they had their first child found in the records at > Millikau, just NW of Domaslov in Nov 1798. Their wedding record hasn't been > found yet, though I am now trying to sort out the Zieglers in Wolfersdorf > and >  surrounding area in the Horni Kozolupy records. > > Before that, I checked the Celiv Records which do go back to some of the > 1600s. I have found the Kahabka/Kahapka name back to the mid 1600s.  I need > to recheck some of them as you say, they are very hard to read.  And it is > frustrating that so many records were lost in various wars, especially the > 30 years war, but that also happened in many places. > > I have been curious about the name for many years and have been hoping to > find out more about it.  All of my grandmother's other ancestor's names are > German sounding, except perhaps HABLA from Leskau, and all came from around > the Wezeritz - Domaschlag area - Leskau, Wolfersdorf, Pottin, Harlosee, > Saduba, (Grandmother born there), Wikau, Hinterkotten, and a few others. I, > too, have wondered if the KAHABKA name could be Slavic. > > I am very sorry that I never learned German, though my father spoke it. I > am second generation removed from Bohemia.  My grandmother passed away when > I was in >  High School at age 92, so I never asked her any questions about her life > in Bohemia.  She came to Napa, CA in 1886 at age 18 to help a cousin.  Her > parents, Franz KUNZL and Theresia KAHABKA came to KS from Saduba in 1887 and > then went to OK by 1898 where Franz died.  I found the KAHABKA surname on > her death certificate, also from Napa, CA from May 1914 about 30 years ago, > but have only been able to do research (or have it done) in Bohemia the last > two years, since I've been retired.   My Grandmother's only two brothers who > lived to adulthood came to KS and OK with their parents, but neither had any > descendants to question either.  So I am depending on the records to find > what I can and have been intensely working on this line for over 2 years now > and appreciate all the help you and the Bohemian-German Message Board give. > Marg McEuen

Hi Marg, after our unsuccessful search for common ancestors in Pottin, I may be able to help you some your Kahabka ancestry in that area. I found in the registry of the Berni Rula (1654) a Blazej Kahapka in Ostrov u Bezdruzice (Wostrowa in G.) and both a Matej and a Simon Kahapka in Krsy (Girsch in G.). In the Plzenske/Klatovske volume of the 1651 Census (Soupis Poddanych) I then found two of them with their families, but no sign of Simon.: In Wostrowa: Blaha Kahabka, Bauer (farmer), 40 years old Susanna, his wife, 38 y. Veit, child, 15 y. Durl, child, 12 y. In Großengürsch (Girsch): Mathes Kahabka, Bauer (farmer), 26 years old Marusch, his wife, 24 y. No children, but 4 farm helpers. Like usual in this Census all are listed as Catholics. Most ages shown in this census are estimates. Girsch (Krsy) had a parish church to which Wostrowa also belonged.. The parish records of Girsch go, unfortunately, only back to 1712. Land records go back further. My Stingl ancestors who ended up in Pottin came from Girsch. Good luck, Gerold

Correction: the link for the statistics should be https://www2.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/olf/struktur.php?bestand=16205&klassi=005.005.014.004.00002.%&anzeigeKlassi=005.005.014.004 -----Original Message----- From: Wagner Christof, SCS-NIT-DEV-PAD-DVS-DMP Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:42 AM To: '[email protected]' Subject: RE: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Origin of Kahabka surname Hi Marg, the count of Loewenstein bought the estate on November 7th, 1712. The contract is available at the Lowenstein Archiv in Stuttgart under the number R-Lit. A Nr. 303. Look for the title "Ankauf der böhmischen Herrschaften Weseritz, Skupsch, Schwamberg, Guttenstein, Zebau, Haid und Pernatitz" at https://www2.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/olf/struktur.php?bestand=15599&klassi=009&anzeigeKlassi=009.003. The count bought the following villages: "Item Ein Marckfleck Leskau: Zehnn Dörffer, HohenJamnÿ, Kschkam, Böhmisch-Domaschlag, Millikau, Kokaschitz, Lam, UnterJamnÿ, Kutsch, Schwitz und Schirnitz" If have ordered a paper copy from that contract. There are a lot of Lowenstein documents at the archiv for Bohemia but only the titles are listed and finding names for genalogical reasons is unlikely. And even if you find one, the handwriting if mostly terrible. The priests really did there best for a readable handwriting. Another interesting document is the statistic from Lowenstein: "Summarische Beschreibung der löwenstein-wertheim-rochefortschen Herrschaften in Böhmen (Haid, Pernartitz, Weseritz, Schwanberg, Zebau und Guttenstein)" von Kammerassessor Friedrich Ludwig Ferdinand Lips. Archive number R-NL 15 Nr. 713, see https://www2.landesarchiv-bw.de/ofs21/olf/struktur.php?bestand=16205&klassi=005.002.007&anzeigeKlassi=005.002.004. I have a copy of this document also, it doesn't have a date but should be around 1770 or earlier. The original contract unreadable for me, but later a clean copy with good handwriting was created. As count Loewensteiner bought the estate in 1712, you probably won't find any additional genalogical information there as the church records cover that time well. I have asked Jacub to look for an Urbar or any other information (tax-lists, contracts..) that could give me additional information on my own line in that area. I can keep you informed about what happens. Regards, Christof -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Marg McEuen Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Origin of Kahabka surname Hi, Aida.  Yes, I've been watching the house numbers when they have been given and putting families together that way.  I'm putting them into Roots Magic to see if I can connect the families.  I'm running into trouble when the house numbers are not given, as in the earlier records, especially with so many similar first names.  They all seem to have been Catholic as far back as I've found records.  One line of KHABAKAs were all carpenters too, but I haven't been able to connect them yet.  My line were mostly farmers or cottagers.  A lot of the earlier (mid 1700s and back) records say either "Principi  de Lowenstein" or "Subditi  Comitis de Zinsendorff".  I have been trying to find out more about these as I think they are Estates in the former feudal system that lasted over half of the 1700s.  Do you know where I could find out more about these Estates?  I have been looking on-line, but so far I haven't found out much.  Are there Estate records or any land records that could be checked?  Would the Berni Rula show anything for peasants if it were checked to see if the KAHABKA name shows up in any of the villages where they might have been earlier than the records from Celiv?  I really appreciate your help as you have so much knowledge about the records.  Marg --- On Mon, 4/5/10, Aida Kraus <[email protected]> wrote: From: Aida Kraus <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Origin of Kahabka surname To: [email protected] Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 11:07 AM Dear Marg, pay attention to house numbers if they are given in these records.  Often I had difficulties matching family members, but the  same house numbers were finally the key to the family structure.  Also pay attention to where they were born and died, and what they recorded in the marriage records. The reoccurring house number will give you the clue who belongs to whom.   Often you do not need to understand or read the words, but the dates, names, location and house numbers are often enough to make the families mesh.  I found it of valuable help to take a register and sketch out the birth, marriage and death registers under the same name by house number, because most of our families in Bohemia lived for several generations in the same house.  They did not move as much in a generation as we are doing now, because then the family unit was strongly bound together by the need of making a living from their residence, be it either as a farm or a craft, especially if they were of the Catholic faith.    You are well on the way and the location of records in the various churches of the vicinity will give you the years of where you should search.    Good luck! Aida On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Marg McEuen <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks, Aida. > > I have had the mentioned records searched and my Gt-Grandmother, (Theresia > KAHABKA, b. 1839 in Domaslav) and her ancesters found back to Laurenz > (Anton, b. 1808 in Millikau, Martin, b. abt. 1772 possibly in Setlaw, > Laurenz  who may have been from Setzlaw from a birth record of one of my > gt-grandmother's uncles, another child of Martin).  Theresia's  grandfather, > Martin's, birth record was not found though his father was recorded as > Laurenz from Setzlaw and his mother as Katharina from Zebau on another of > Martin's children's birth records.   That child was a brother of Anton, > Theresia's father. > > Neither of us has found Martin's birth record for around 1773.  Martin > married Anna Maria Ziegler from Wolfersdorf  (Olbranov) around 1797 (record > ot found either) and they had their first child found in the records at > Millikau, just NW of Domaslov in Nov 1798. Their wedding record hasn't been > found yet, though I am now trying to sort out the Zieglers in Wolfersdorf > and >  surrounding area in the Horni Kozolupy records. > > Before that, I checked the Celiv Records which do go back to some of the > 1600s. I have found the Kahabka/Kahapka name back to the mid 1600s.  I need > to recheck some of them as you say, they are very hard to read.  And it is > frustrating that so many records were lost in various wars, especially the > 30 years war, but that also happened in many places. > > I have been curious about the name for many years and have been hoping to > find out more about it.  All of my grandmother's other ancestor's names are > German sounding, except perhaps HABLA from Leskau, and all came from around > the Wezeritz - Domaschlag area - Leskau, Wolfersdorf, Pottin, Harlosee, > Saduba, (Grandmother born there), Wikau, Hinterkotten, and a few others. I, > too, have wondered if the KAHABKA name could be Slavic. > > I am very sorry that I never learned German, though my father spoke it. I > am second generation removed from Bohemia.  My grandmother passed away when > I was in >  High School at age 92, so I never asked her any questions about her life > in Bohemia.  She came to Napa, CA in 1886 at age 18 to help a cousin.  Her > parents, Franz KUNZL and Theresia KAHABKA came to KS from Saduba in 1887 and > then went to OK by 1898 where Franz died.  I found the KAHABKA surname on > her death certificate, also from Napa, CA from May 1914 about 30 years ago, > but have only been able to do research (or have it done) in Bohemia the last > two years, since I've been retired.   My Grandmother's only two brothers who > lived to adulthood came to KS and OK with their parents, but neither had any > descendants to question either.  So I am depending on the records to find > what I can and have been intensely working on this line for over 2 years now > and appreciate all the help you and the Bohemian-German Message Board give. > Marg McEuen German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message