Marg, you can indeed look into registers where they list the estates of the nobility and one of the links can be found right here on the internet. At the end there are alphabetical place and name listings, and in some cases they also show the names of their key personnel. Go to Google books and enter: "Topographisch Statistischer Schematismus der Grossgrundbesitzer im Koenigreich Boehmen" or use this link and go backwards or forwards on the pages.... It will take a little time to download. http://books.google.com/books?id=pcgA4F3k-PQC&pg=PA695&dq=Topographisch+Statistischer+Schematismus+der+Grossgrundbesitzer+im+Koenigreich+Boehmen%22&cd Aida On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Marg McEuen <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, Aida. Yes, I've been watching the house numbers when they have been > given and putting families together that way. I'm putting them into Roots > Magic to see if I can connect the families. I'm running into trouble when > the house numbers are not given, as in the earlier records, especially with > so many similar first names. They all seem to have been Catholic as far > back as I've found records. One line of KHABAKAs were all carpenters too, > but I haven't been able to connect them yet. My line were mostly farmers or > cottagers. > > A lot of the earlier (mid 1700s and back) records say either "Principi de > Lowenstein" or "Subditi Comitis de Zinsendorff". I have been trying to > find out more about these as I think they are Estates in the former feudal > system that lasted over half of the 1700s. Do you know where I could find > out more about these Estates? I have been looking on-line, but so far I > haven't found out much. Are there Estate records or any land records that > could be checked? Would the Berni Rula show anything for peasants if it > were checked to see if the KAHABKA name shows up in any of the villages > where they might have been earlier than the records from Celiv? > > I really appreciate your help as you have so much knowledge about the > records. Marg > > --- On Mon, 4/5/10, Aida Kraus <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: Aida Kraus <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Origin of Kahabka surname > To: [email protected] > Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 11:07 AM > > Dear Marg, > pay attention to house numbers if they are given in these records. Often I > had difficulties matching family members, but the same house numbers were > finally the key to the family structure. Also pay attention to where they > were born and died, and what they recorded in the marriage records. The > reoccurring house number will give you the clue who belongs to > whom. Often > you do not need to understand or read the words, but the dates, names, > location and house numbers are often enough to make the families mesh. I > found it of valuable help to take a register and sketch out the birth, > marriage and death registers under the same name by house number, because > most of our families in Bohemia lived for several generations in the same > house. They did not move as much in a generation as we are doing now, > because then the family unit was strongly bound together by the need of > making a living from their residence, be it either as a farm or a craft, > especially if they were of the Catholic faith. > You are well on the way and the location of records in the various > churches of the vicinity will give you the years of where you should > search. > Good luck! > Aida > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Marg McEuen <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Thanks, Aida. > > > > I have had the mentioned records searched and my Gt-Grandmother, > (Theresia > > KAHABKA, b. 1839 in Domaslav) and her ancesters found back to Laurenz > > (Anton, b. 1808 in Millikau, Martin, b. abt. 1772 possibly in Setlaw, > > Laurenz who may have been from Setzlaw from a birth record of one of my > > gt-grandmother's uncles, another child of Martin). Theresia's > grandfather, > > Martin's, birth record was not found though his father was recorded as > > Laurenz from Setzlaw and his mother as Katharina from Zebau on another of > > Martin's children's birth records. That child was a brother of Anton, > > Theresia's father. > > > > Neither of us has found Martin's birth record for around 1773. Martin > > married Anna Maria Ziegler from Wolfersdorf (Olbranov) around 1797 > (record > > ot found either) and they had their first child found in the records at > > Millikau, just NW of Domaslov in Nov 1798. Their wedding record hasn't > been > > found yet, though I am now trying to sort out the Zieglers in Wolfersdorf > > and > > surrounding area in the Horni Kozolupy records. > > > > Before that, I checked the Celiv Records which do go back to some of the > > 1600s. I have found the Kahabka/Kahapka name back to the mid 1600s. I > need > > to recheck some of them as you say, they are very hard to read. And it > is > > frustrating that so many records were lost in various wars, especially > the > > 30 years war, but that also happened in many places. > > > > I have been curious about the name for many years and have been hoping to > > find out more about it. All of my grandmother's other ancestor's names > are > > German sounding, except perhaps HABLA from Leskau, and all came from > around > > the Wezeritz - Domaschlag area - Leskau, Wolfersdorf, Pottin, Harlosee, > > Saduba, (Grandmother born there), Wikau, Hinterkotten, and a few others. > I, > > too, have wondered if the KAHABKA name could be Slavic. > > > > I am very sorry that I never learned German, though my father spoke it. I > > am second generation removed from Bohemia. My grandmother passed away > when > > I was in > > High School at age 92, so I never asked her any questions about her life > > in Bohemia. She came to Napa, CA in 1886 at age 18 to help a cousin. > Her > > parents, Franz KUNZL and Theresia KAHABKA came to KS from Saduba in 1887 > and > > then went to OK by 1898 where Franz died. I found the KAHABKA surname on > > her death certificate, also from Napa, CA from May 1914 about 30 years > ago, > > but have only been able to do research (or have it done) in Bohemia the > last > > two years, since I've been retired. My Grandmother's only two brothers > who > > lived to adulthood came to KS and OK with their parents, but neither had > any > > descendants to question either. So I am depending on the records to find > > what I can and have been intensely working on this line for over 2 years > now > > and appreciate all the help you and the Bohemian-German Message Board > give. > > Marg McEuen > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Coming to think of something else, Marg, because you mentioned the Loewensteins and Zinsendorffs..... if your ancestors were employed at their holdings, perhaps even in their castles and living there, their church records may be contained in the register of the chapels of these two noble families. That of course would have to be researched by a genealogist. If you do not pan out on the records you are looking at now, I would consider the other option as a most likely alternative. Aida ----------------------------------- On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Aida Kraus <[email protected]> wrote: > Marg, you can indeed look into registers where they list the estates of the > nobility and one of the links can be found right here on the internet. At > the end there are alphabetical place and name listings, and in some cases > they also show the names of their key personnel. Go to Google books and > enter: > "Topographisch Statistischer Schematismus der Grossgrundbesitzer im > Koenigreich Boehmen" or use this link and go backwards or forwards on the > pages.... It will take a little time to download. > > http://books.google.com/books?id=pcgA4F3k-PQC&pg=PA695&dq=Topographisch+Statistischer+Schematismus+der+Grossgrundbesitzer+im+Koenigreich+Boehmen%22&cd > Aida > > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Marg McEuen <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Hi, Aida. Yes, I've been watching the house numbers when they have been >> given and putting families together that way. I'm putting them into Roots >> Magic to see if I can connect the families. I'm running into trouble when >> the house numbers are not given, as in the earlier records, especially with >> so many similar first names. They all seem to have been Catholic as far >> back as I've found records. One line of KHABAKAs were all carpenters too, >> but I haven't been able to connect them yet. My line were mostly farmers or >> cottagers. >> >> A lot of the earlier (mid 1700s and back) records say either "Principi >> de Lowenstein" or "Subditi Comitis de Zinsendorff". I have been trying to >> find out more about these as I think they are Estates in the former feudal >> system that lasted over half of the 1700s. Do you know where I could find >> out more about these Estates? I have been looking on-line, but so far I >> haven't found out much. Are there Estate records or any land records that >> could be checked? Would the Berni Rula show anything for peasants if it >> were checked to see if the KAHABKA name shows up in any of the villages >> where they might have been earlier than the records from Celiv? >> >> I really appreciate your help as you have so much knowledge about the >> records. Marg >> >> --- On Mon, 4/5/10, Aida Kraus <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> From: Aida Kraus <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Origin of Kahabka surname >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 11:07 AM >> >> Dear Marg, >> pay attention to house numbers if they are given in these records. Often >> I >> had difficulties matching family members, but the same house numbers were >> finally the key to the family structure. Also pay attention to where they >> were born and died, and what they recorded in the marriage records. The >> reoccurring house number will give you the clue who belongs to >> whom. Often >> you do not need to understand or read the words, but the dates, names, >> location and house numbers are often enough to make the families mesh. I >> found it of valuable help to take a register and sketch out the birth, >> marriage and death registers under the same name by house number, because >> most of our families in Bohemia lived for several generations in the same >> house. They did not move as much in a generation as we are doing now, >> because then the family unit was strongly bound together by the need of >> making a living from their residence, be it either as a farm or a craft, >> especially if they were of the Catholic faith. >> You are well on the way and the location of records in the various >> churches of the vicinity will give you the years of where you should >> search. >> Good luck! >> Aida >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Marg McEuen <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > Thanks, Aida. >> > >> > I have had the mentioned records searched and my Gt-Grandmother, >> (Theresia >> > KAHABKA, b. 1839 in Domaslav) and her ancesters found back to Laurenz >> > (Anton, b. 1808 in Millikau, Martin, b. abt. 1772 possibly in Setlaw, >> > Laurenz who may have been from Setzlaw from a birth record of one of my >> > gt-grandmother's uncles, another child of Martin). Theresia's >> grandfather, >> > Martin's, birth record was not found though his father was recorded as >> > Laurenz from Setzlaw and his mother as Katharina from Zebau on another >> of >> > Martin's children's birth records. That child was a brother of Anton, >> > Theresia's father. >> > >> > Neither of us has found Martin's birth record for around 1773. Martin >> > married Anna Maria Ziegler from Wolfersdorf (Olbranov) around 1797 >> (record >> > ot found either) and they had their first child found in the records at >> > Millikau, just NW of Domaslov in Nov 1798. Their wedding record hasn't >> been >> > found yet, though I am now trying to sort out the Zieglers in >> Wolfersdorf >> > and >> > surrounding area in the Horni Kozolupy records. >> > >> > Before that, I checked the Celiv Records which do go back to some of the >> > 1600s. I have found the Kahabka/Kahapka name back to the mid 1600s. I >> need >> > to recheck some of them as you say, they are very hard to read. And it >> is >> > frustrating that so many records were lost in various wars, especially >> the >> > 30 years war, but that also happened in many places. >> > >> > I have been curious about the name for many years and have been hoping >> to >> > find out more about it. All of my grandmother's other ancestor's names >> are >> > German sounding, except perhaps HABLA from Leskau, and all came from >> around >> > the Wezeritz - Domaschlag area - Leskau, Wolfersdorf, Pottin, Harlosee, >> > Saduba, (Grandmother born there), Wikau, Hinterkotten, and a few others. >> I, >> > too, have wondered if the KAHABKA name could be Slavic. >> > >> > I am very sorry that I never learned German, though my father spoke it. >> I >> > am second generation removed from Bohemia. My grandmother passed away >> when >> > I was in >> > High School at age 92, so I never asked her any questions about her >> life >> > in Bohemia. She came to Napa, CA in 1886 at age 18 to help a cousin. >> Her >> > parents, Franz KUNZL and Theresia KAHABKA came to KS from Saduba in 1887 >> and >> > then went to OK by 1898 where Franz died. I found the KAHABKA surname >> on >> > her death certificate, also from Napa, CA from May 1914 about 30 years >> ago, >> > but have only been able to do research (or have it done) in Bohemia the >> last >> > two years, since I've been retired. My Grandmother's only two brothers >> who >> > lived to adulthood came to KS and OK with their parents, but neither had >> any >> > descendants to question either. So I am depending on the records to >> find >> > what I can and have been intensely working on this line for over 2 years >> now >> > and appreciate all the help you and the Bohemian-German Message Board >> give. >> > Marg McEuen >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >