Aida: I was thinking about Bohemian German and Deutschland German, not Slavic. You learned Bohemian German as a child, yes? Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Heidl and Prokosch > No I am not an expert on this, but we are talking two distinct languages, > one a Germanic one the other a Slavic. They are easy to distinguish, > while > dialects, for instance, are not as quickly to recognize and to place, > unless you are a linguist. > Aida > > -------------------------------------------------- > > On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 3:22 PM, frank <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Aida: It is my understanding that there was a common language, but that >> the >> spoken dialects were different, and one would know where the speaker was >> from immediately. Much like modern Euro French and Canadian French. >> >> But you are the expert on this. True or not? >> >> Frank Heidl Slocum >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Aida Kraus" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 6:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Heidl and Prokosch >> >> >> > Indeed, Daniel, the German and Czech speech boundaries were used to >> define >> > the so called Sudetenland, and it was in 1938 that these ethnic groups >> > separated. Prior to that, and all during the monarchy's rules for over >> > 400 >> > years, they were never separated. There is no doubt that the influence >> of >> > politics separated these people while they had a history of peaceful >> > coexistence and dependence on one another. Actually, their cruel >> > separation >> > came with the influence of religion and political interest. Although >> > German >> > speaking pockets are found historically all through Bohemia, there were >> > hardly any Czech speaking people in Western Bohemia before 1918, >> > particularly in the area called " Egerland" which originally belonged >> > to >> > Bavaria. However, there were Slavic Sorbs (or Sorbo) within the East >> > part >> > of Germany, in the location from Lusatia to southern Berlin. Wherever >> two >> > speech boundaries meet, the languages there spoken become >> interchangeable. >> > You are finding the same here on the North American continent, for >> > instance >> > in Canada where French and English are adjoined, and Spanish and >> English >> > in the Southern States. >> > Aida >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------- >> > >> > On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 1:46 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Thank you Aida, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> It is wonderful that you share with all of us your vast knowledge of >> >> the >> >> German - Bohemian history. >> >> >> >> My father family is full Bohemian, but when I talked to my Grandfather >> >> years ago he seemed to >> >> >> >> believe there was not a real border between them. Both Grandparents >> knew >> >> how to speak both >> >> >> >> languages. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> As part of my mother's family, we have always thought of the Hughes >> >> family >> >> as from Wales. As I dug >> >> >> >> further in history, I have found that the Hughes family were German >> >> family >> >> who immigrated to Wales >> >> >> >> in the 11 to 12 century. They were a mining family who moved to new >> >> sources in Wales, then on to >> >> >> >> Wisconsin in the late 1800's. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Daniel Nechkash >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Aida Kraus" <[email protected]> >> >> To: [email protected] >> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:53:56 PM GMT -05:00 Colombia >> >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Heidl and Prokosch >> >> >> >> I think I can provide some insight into the theory that they came with >> >> glassworkers from Bohemia to Poland, but again, we have to go back to >> >> history to trace the probable trail of your ancestors. Never forget >> >> that the Austrian Hungarian Empire lasted over 400 years and >> >> encompassed a huge area. This area was split into 9 countires after >> >> WW1 (1918) and hence you find the original residents of Austria all of >> >> a sudden in "other country". Austria Hungary was a multiethnical >> >> country, something Europe is trying to achieve now, and outside forces >> >> tore it apart when it was already in existence and a great military >> >> threat to Great Britain. >> >> Now we come to the glasswork theory. Bohemia also was a part of >> >> Austria Hungary, and has very close ties to provinces of France, >> >> namely Luxembourg (the Luxemburgers were Bohemian Kings) and >> >> Alsace/Lorraine as well as part of Belgium. So... what do I see? I >> >> see a trail.... and especially since the nobility is involved who were >> >> the first to start up industries. Bohemia had huge glass and >> >> porcelain manufacture, so had France. It is most likely that the >> >> nobility took their best craftsmen with their retinue to other areas >> >> of the Empire. >> >> All you have to do is to search for historical maps on the >> >> internet. Look at the old Austrian Hungarian map and then look where >> >> your ancestors lived, and you will see that they were all within the >> >> borders of the Empire. You'll find that the Austrian Hungarian >> >> Monarchy encompassed within her original borders lands that are now >> >> split away from the ancient motherland and were arbitrarily given to >> >> Poland, Romania, Italy, and alsao entirely new countries were invented >> >> in 1918 like Cechoslovakia and Yugoslavia at the Treaty of Trianon. >> >> This was to appease the Slavic Nations who never had a homeland of >> >> their own. Therefore, I am sure that the place you call "Poland" was >> >> the Galicia of Austria Hungary. >> >> This trail may explain your Kichard from France to the German >> >> Glasswork areas of Bohemia, and from there to Poland. To bear this >> >> out, I can assure you that I have French Names in my own family who >> >> were Germans from French provinces and I found them even farther East >> >> along the Danube, than yours. >> >> Aida >> >> >> >> On 12/16/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Hello again, >> >> > >> >> > Thank you, Aida and Frank, for responding to my question about >> whether >> >> my >> >> > Kichard ancestors were of German origin. I'll follow-up on the >> >> suggestions >> >> > in your e-mails. >> >> > >> >> > I had previously heard from a German native that the Kichard name >> >> > was >> >> > likely not of German origin, but I had reason to believe otherwise, >> >> > as >> >> > I >> >> > mention below. >> >> > >> >> > I still have Kichard family living in south-east Poland, and they >> >> > believe >> >> > they are of German heritage. >> >> > >> >> > The book, "Opis Powiatu Jasielskiego", a geographical gazetteer >> >> published >> >> > in Poland in 1908, describes the villages in that area of Poland. >> >> > It >> >> > states that my first Kichard ancestor, Jakub Kichard, arrived there >> in >> >> the >> >> > late >> >> > 1700's with other "Germanized-Czech" glass-workers to set-up and >> >> > operate >> >> a >> >> > glass-works for a Polish nobleman who was building a church and >> castle >> >> > nearby. >> >> > >> >> > Archive records show that my Kichard ancestors lived in that village >> >> > from >> >> > that time up to 1945, almost 200 years, until the communist >> government >> >> > forced all of the residents to move from the village at that time. >> >> > >> >> > Elderly Kichard relatives who once lived in that village and were >> among >> >> > those forced to move out in 1945, still say that when they had lived >> >> there, >> >> > that when their young friends who also lived there were coming to >> visit >> >> > them, and were asked by their family where they were going, they >> >> > would >> >> > say,"to >> >> > see the Germans". >> >> > >> >> > Thus, family history and the above says that Kichard is a "German" >> >> > name. >> >> > >> >> > However, since my first Kichard ancestor arrived in that area of >> Poland >> >> > with other "Germanized-Czech" glass-workers, perhaps it is a Czech >> name >> >> that >> >> > is derived from an earlier German name. >> >> > >> >> > Any of your comments and further suggestions on my Kichard search >> >> > will >> >> > be >> >> > appreciated. >> >> > >> >> > Thank you all again. >> >> > >> >> > Andy >> >> > Pittsburgh, PA >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> >> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> >> > ------------------------------- >> >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> >> > without >> >> the >> >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >