Thank you Aida, It is wonderful that you share with all of us your vast knowledge of the German - Bohemian history.  My father family is full Bohemian, but when I talked to my Grandfather years ago he seemed to believe there was not a real border between them.  Both Grandparents knew how to speak both languages. As part of my mother's family, we have always thought of the Hughes family as from Wales.  As I dug further in history, I have found that the Hughes family were German family who immigrated to Wales in the 11 to 12 century.  They were a mining family who moved to new sources in Wales, then on to Wisconsin in the late 1800's. Daniel Nechkash ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:53:56 PM GMT -05:00 Colombia Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Heidl and Prokosch I think I can provide some insight into the theory that they came with glassworkers from Bohemia to Poland, but again, we have to go back to history to trace the probable trail of your ancestors.  Never forget that the Austrian Hungarian Empire lasted over 400 years and encompassed a huge area.  This area was split into 9 countires after WW1 (1918) and hence you find the original residents of Austria all of a sudden in "other country".  Austria Hungary was a multiethnical country, something Europe is trying to achieve now, and outside forces tore it apart when it was already in existence and a great military threat to Great Britain.      Now we come to the glasswork theory.  Bohemia also was a part of Austria Hungary, and has very close ties to provinces of France, namely Luxembourg (the Luxemburgers were Bohemian Kings) and Alsace/Lorraine as well as part of Belgium.  So... what do I see?  I see a trail.... and especially since the nobility is involved who were the first to start up industries.  Bohemia had huge glass and porcelain manufacture, so had France.  It is most likely that the nobility took their best craftsmen with their retinue to other areas of the Empire.     All you have to do is to search for historical maps on the internet.  Look at the old Austrian Hungarian map and then look where your ancestors lived, and you will see that they were all within the borders of the Empire.  You'll find that the Austrian Hungarian Monarchy encompassed within her original borders lands that are now split away from the ancient motherland and were arbitrarily given to Poland, Romania, Italy, and alsao entirely new countries were invented in 1918 like Cechoslovakia and Yugoslavia at the Treaty of Trianon. This was to appease the Slavic Nations who never had a homeland of their own.  Therefore, I am sure that the place you call "Poland" was the Galicia of Austria Hungary.     This trail may explain your Kichard from France to the German Glasswork areas of Bohemia, and from there to Poland.  To bear this out, I can assure you that I have French Names in my own family who were Germans from  French provinces and I found them even farther East along the Danube, than yours.      Aida On 12/16/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello again, > > Thank you, Aida and Frank, for responding to my  question about whether my > Kichard ancestors were of German  origin.  I'll follow-up on the suggestions > in your e-mails. > > I had previously heard from a German native that the Kichard name was > likely not of German origin, but I had reason to believe otherwise, as I > mention below. > > I still have Kichard family living in south-east Poland, and they believe > they are of German heritage. > > The book, "Opis Powiatu Jasielskiego", a geographical gazetteer  published > in Poland in 1908, describes the villages in that area  of Poland.  It > states that my first Kichard ancestor, Jakub  Kichard, arrived there in the > late > 1700's with other "Germanized-Czech"  glass-workers to set-up and operate a > glass-works for a Polish nobleman who  was building a church and castle > nearby. > > Archive records show that my Kichard ancestors lived in that village from > that time up to 1945, almost 200 years, until the communist  government > forced all of the residents to move from the village at  that time. > > Elderly Kichard relatives who once lived in that village and were among > those forced to move out in 1945, still say that when they had lived there, > that when their young friends who also lived there were coming to visit > them, and were asked by their family where they were going, they would > say,"to > see the Germans". > > Thus, family history and the above says that Kichard is a "German"  name. > > However, since my first Kichard ancestor arrived in that area of Poland > with other "Germanized-Czech" glass-workers, perhaps it is a Czech name that > is  derived from an earlier German name. > > Any of your comments and further suggestions on my Kichard search will be > appreciated. > > Thank you all again. > > Andy > Pittsburgh, PA > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Indeed, Daniel, the German and Czech speech boundaries were used to define the so called Sudetenland, and it was in 1938 that these ethnic groups separated. Prior to that, and all during the monarchy's rules for over 400 years, they were never separated. There is no doubt that the influence of politics separated these people while they had a history of peaceful coexistence and dependence on one another. Actually, their cruel separation came with the influence of religion and political interest. Although German speaking pockets are found historically all through Bohemia, there were hardly any Czech speaking people in Western Bohemia before 1918, particularly in the area called " Egerland" which originally belonged to Bavaria. However, there were Slavic Sorbs (or Sorbo) within the East part of Germany, in the location from Lusatia to southern Berlin. Wherever two speech boundaries meet, the languages there spoken become interchangeable. You are finding the same here on the North American continent, for instance in Canada where French and English are adjoined, and Spanish and English in the Southern States. Aida ---------------------------------------------- On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 1:46 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Thank you Aida, > > > > It is wonderful that you share with all of us your vast knowledge of the > German - Bohemian history. > > My father family is full Bohemian, but when I talked to my Grandfather > years ago he seemed to > > believe there was not a real border between them. Both Grandparents knew > how to speak both > > languages. > > > > As part of my mother's family, we have always thought of the Hughes family > as from Wales. As I dug > > further in history, I have found that the Hughes family were German family > who immigrated to Wales > > in the 11 to 12 century. They were a mining family who moved to new > sources in Wales, then on to > > Wisconsin in the late 1800's. > > > > Daniel Nechkash > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:53:56 PM GMT -05:00 Colombia > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Heidl and Prokosch > > I think I can provide some insight into the theory that they came with > glassworkers from Bohemia to Poland, but again, we have to go back to > history to trace the probable trail of your ancestors. Never forget > that the Austrian Hungarian Empire lasted over 400 years and > encompassed a huge area. This area was split into 9 countires after > WW1 (1918) and hence you find the original residents of Austria all of > a sudden in "other country". Austria Hungary was a multiethnical > country, something Europe is trying to achieve now, and outside forces > tore it apart when it was already in existence and a great military > threat to Great Britain. > Now we come to the glasswork theory. Bohemia also was a part of > Austria Hungary, and has very close ties to provinces of France, > namely Luxembourg (the Luxemburgers were Bohemian Kings) and > Alsace/Lorraine as well as part of Belgium. So... what do I see? I > see a trail.... and especially since the nobility is involved who were > the first to start up industries. Bohemia had huge glass and > porcelain manufacture, so had France. It is most likely that the > nobility took their best craftsmen with their retinue to other areas > of the Empire. > All you have to do is to search for historical maps on the > internet. Look at the old Austrian Hungarian map and then look where > your ancestors lived, and you will see that they were all within the > borders of the Empire. You'll find that the Austrian Hungarian > Monarchy encompassed within her original borders lands that are now > split away from the ancient motherland and were arbitrarily given to > Poland, Romania, Italy, and alsao entirely new countries were invented > in 1918 like Cechoslovakia and Yugoslavia at the Treaty of Trianon. > This was to appease the Slavic Nations who never had a homeland of > their own. Therefore, I am sure that the place you call "Poland" was > the Galicia of Austria Hungary. > This trail may explain your Kichard from France to the German > Glasswork areas of Bohemia, and from there to Poland. To bear this > out, I can assure you that I have French Names in my own family who > were Germans from French provinces and I found them even farther East > along the Danube, than yours. > Aida > > On 12/16/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello again, > > > > Thank you, Aida and Frank, for responding to my question about whether > my > > Kichard ancestors were of German origin. I'll follow-up on the > suggestions > > in your e-mails. > > > > I had previously heard from a German native that the Kichard name was > > likely not of German origin, but I had reason to believe otherwise, as I > > mention below. > > > > I still have Kichard family living in south-east Poland, and they believe > > they are of German heritage. > > > > The book, "Opis Powiatu Jasielskiego", a geographical gazetteer > published > > in Poland in 1908, describes the villages in that area of Poland. It > > states that my first Kichard ancestor, Jakub Kichard, arrived there in > the > > late > > 1700's with other "Germanized-Czech" glass-workers to set-up and operate > a > > glass-works for a Polish nobleman who was building a church and castle > > nearby. > > > > Archive records show that my Kichard ancestors lived in that village from > > that time up to 1945, almost 200 years, until the communist government > > forced all of the residents to move from the village at that time. > > > > Elderly Kichard relatives who once lived in that village and were among > > those forced to move out in 1945, still say that when they had lived > there, > > that when their young friends who also lived there were coming to visit > > them, and were asked by their family where they were going, they would > > say,"to > > see the Germans". > > > > Thus, family history and the above says that Kichard is a "German" name. > > > > However, since my first Kichard ancestor arrived in that area of Poland > > with other "Germanized-Czech" glass-workers, perhaps it is a Czech name > that > > is derived from an earlier German name. > > > > Any of your comments and further suggestions on my Kichard search will be > > appreciated. > > > > Thank you all again. > > > > Andy > > Pittsburgh, PA > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message