Aida, Thanks so much for offering to unscramble the name on the document. I don't have it myself so will have to see if the person (a newly-found cousin) will scan it and send it to me. The death certificate I have obtained myself for my great-grandmother Maria Breburda doesn't seem to have the name of her birth town on it, yet the cousin said he has one which does and it says "Mhemiamas, Bohemia," which is strange. Will have to see it for myself, and if I can obtain it from him then I will send it along to you. Again thanks! Sincerely, Betty In a message dated 1/21/2012 11:56:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, birchbaylady@gmail.com writes: Betty this looks as if someone copied the letters wrong from a document, there is no place like this. Do you have the original copy ? Use the snipping too and send me a clipping (to my personal email) perhaps I will be able to unscramble it. Don't take this for a real name. Aida ----------------------------------- On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 8:06 PM, <VONSKIPPER@aol.com> wrote: > Dear List: > > I have just received information that listed on a death certificate my > great-grandmother's birth place was a place called MHEMIAMS, Bohemia. Has > anyone ever heard of it? I surely can't find it on a Google search. > > Thanks, > > Betty Catherwood > > Vonskipper@aol.com > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear List: I have just received information that listed on a death certificate my great-grandmother's birth place was a place called MHEMIAMS, Bohemia. Has anyone ever heard of it? I surely can't find it on a Google search. Thanks, Betty Catherwood Vonskipper@aol.com

but can someone please explain where the ear is listed in the PLZEN archives? *********************************** RE accessing records on line from Plzen Archives. When you get page to search for record content, if you put in the name of the town, and spell at least a couple letters correctly (the way the archives has catalogued them), a list should pop up (actually down) that shows all the towns in the region with the same name; you just have to select the one you want...if there is more than one you recognize. Sometimes the list will show/contain several towns with same name, with different district parishs. In some cases the town had multiple parish designations over time, so just pick the one you think is right for your time frame...it really doesn't matter because 'books' covering that town will be displayed when you hit the button... When the list of records/books is displayed, you will then see the timeframes that are covered by each book in the information displayed - there are 3 columns that represent birth, marriage, and death; if that book in that entry/line has any records of that type, the dates covered will appear. Also, look on the right; one column will indicate the number of pages available; if 0, that means they are not on line yet. The magnifying glass gets clicked to allow you to start searching the records. When a page appears, arrows at the top will allow you to go forward or back in the paging through the document. Another thing you should look at is under column Obec.... this indicated the number of towns/village recorded in the document. If you hover your cursor over the number, it will show you the names of the villages in that book. The records displayed apparently will list all the parishes where records can be found for a town, including all the other towns in thosee parishs. With all the parish records listed, some books may not cover town of interest - hence admonishment to check the book content. At one time, the towns in parish were indicated when record made; one page may list several towns in order of event record made. At another time, each town in parish had a section where only entries for that town were made, so you have to go to that area of the book to search - great if there are lots of records in book, since you don't have to look at each page for an appropriate town. Later, each village/town got their own book...And sometimes, all record types were in same book; other records may have a had a book for each record type - so columns shown from info extracted from index important to determine what book you need to look at for various records - also, sort of skip first couple columns, since it is more 'general' info that indicates a region, and, for me, confuses the issue...good only IF you know that designation for your town/villlage of interest. I have found that the information for each entry/physical book is indicated whether or not the records are on line; in other words, what they have in their inventory is listed. If there is not a entry listed in the index, there is no book extant for that time period/town/record type, or maybe you have the place name wrong and no records exist or no place of that name - I've found this in some entries I've selected from their list; the error message will say something like there was no office in that place that made those records - if so, select a different place/parish name in the index search page, Hope this helps. Good luck! Anettka

Betty this looks as if someone copied the letters wrong from a document, there is no place like this. Do you have the original copy ? Use the snipping too and send me a clipping (to my personal email) perhaps I will be able to unscramble it. Don't take this for a real name. Aida ----------------------------------- On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 8:06 PM, <VONSKIPPER@aol.com> wrote: > Dear List: > > I have just received information that listed on a death certificate my > great-grandmother's birth place was a place called MHEMIAMS, Bohemia. Has > anyone ever heard of it? I surely can't find it on a Google search. > > Thanks, > > Betty Catherwood > > Vonskipper@aol.com > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

/ A Question of Nationalities and Social Democracy Czechs and Germans in Bohemia: http://books.google.com/books?id=YYUhH5JRDL0C&pg=PA473&lpg=PA473&dq=german+word+Slavisch&source=bl&ots=iq8nmdYH-i&sig=8F3DXp5sGrfYYmj9BSuEB955eF4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=L1QbT9fRKabt0gGIltm_Cw&sqi=2&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=german%20word%20Slavisch&f=false ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] German-Bohemian boundaries > > Slavisch (Slavic): > > http://en.dicios.com/deen/slavisch > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Slavic_borrowings > > > > ________ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 5:58 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] German-Bohemian boundaries > > >> You wrote: >> >> >> >> I infer that "Slavisch/Slavish" must have been an erroneous >> Anglicization of the word, "Slovak" or "Slovenska," >> >> >> Slavisch means Slavonic/Slavic, like: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHvG2g9LBVU >> >> >> >> http://www.vocabulary.com/definition/nl/Slavisch >> >> http://analogical-dictionary.sensagent.com/mw2346880/ML-en-nl/ >> >> >> >> I wouldn't say that it means Slovak, or Czech or any other specific >> Slavic language. >> >> ____ >> >> Lavrentiy >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Slavisch (Slavicv): http://en.dicios.com/deen/slavisch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Slavic_borrowings ________ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 5:58 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] German-Bohemian boundaries > You wrote: > > > > I infer that "Slavisch/Slavish" must have been an erroneous > Anglicization of the word, "Slovak" or "Slovenska," > > > Slavisch means Slavonic/Slavic, like: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHvG2g9LBVU > > > > http://www.vocabulary.com/definition/nl/Slavisch > > http://analogical-dictionary.sensagent.com/mw2346880/ML-en-nl/ > > > > I wouldn't say that it means Slovak, or Czech or any other specific > Slavic language. > > ____ > > Lavrentiy > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

/ "In June 1876, following incidents in which Turkish soldiers killed a large number of Christian Slavs who rebelled against Ottoman Empire and supported by countries like Austria and Russia, Serbia declared war on Turkey. Many Russians sympathized with those they considered to be their fellow Slavs and sent volunteer soldiers and aid to assist the Kingdom of Serbia. In the ensuing struggle the Serbian army was quickly defeated by the Turks. Nikolai Rubinstein, a close friend of Tchaikovsky, asked him to compose a piece for a concert benefiting the wounded Russian volunteers. In a burst of patriotism, Tchaikovsky composed and orchestrated what was first known as the "Serbo-Russian March" (later to be known as "Marche slave") in only five days. The piece was premiered in Moscow on November 17, 1876 to a warm reception." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] German-Bohemian boundaries > > / > > > Pyotr (Peter) Chajkovsky's Slavonic March > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxlytWahi7M&feature=related > > > > ________ > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 5:58 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] German-Bohemian boundaries > > >> You wrote: >> >> >> >> I infer that "Slavisch/Slavish" must have been an erroneous >> Anglicization of the word, "Slovak" or "Slovenska," >> >> >> Slavisch means Slavonic/Slavic, like: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHvG2g9LBVU >> >> >> >> http://www.vocabulary.com/definition/nl/Slavisch >> >> http://analogical-dictionary.sensagent.com/mw2346880/ML-en-nl/ >> >> >> >> I wouldn't say that it means Slovak, or Czech or any other specific >> Slavic language. >> >> ____ >> >> Lavrentiy >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

/ Discussion of Czechs and Germans in the Pilsen area: http://books.google.com/books?id=wEAeAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA300&lpg=PA300&dq=German+population+of+Pilsen&source=bl&ots=4pAewFx6AW&sig=TzhyKLVAlwDAGRcttlCDAWUdbv4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=QU4bT4eKLrG70QHFtYnQCw&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=German%20population%20of%20Pilsen&f=false _______ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries Map of Sudetenland: http://www.skylighters.org/graden/maps.html http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.skylighters.org/graden/images/sudmap01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.skylighters.org/graden/maps.html&h=285&w=474&sz=24&tbnid=ti97_UDxPZextM:&tbnh=76&tbnw=127&zoom=1&docid=oEnMZCGYwtiObM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TUMbT6GgBsKz0QG1r43dCw&ved=0CDcQ9QEwAw&dur=93 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland ________ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Moos" <ppk1502@ymail.com> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries Yes, thank you for the reply. I already know where it is and how to find it. I have corresponded with people there. I have found and copied BMD records online at the Plzen Archive site. I simply wanted to know whether or not if this Kocin in question is considered to lie within the unclear and ephemeral boundaries which you folks on this list refer to as German-Bohemian, and/or Sudetenland. All of that is unclear to me. THE REASON I ASK IS THIS: "My" Kocin in question seems to lie A LITTLE SOUTH of the SOUTHERN LIMIT of the Sudetenland or German-Bohemian boundary on the map(s) you, Aida, posted. Therefore, my grandparents and great grandparents should have spoken CZECH/Bohemian as a FIRST LANGUAGE. Yet it seems that they spoke German as a first language instead, and this is the language they spoke at home (other than English). They DID SPEAK CZECH, but not as much. They said things such as, "Was ist hier denn los? Or, " Was ist los mit dich?" [Should have said "...mit dir" -- dative case] They said, "Es erfreut mir ihnen kennenzulernen." Or simply "Erfreut mir." "Gute nacht. Schläft wohl." "Guten Morgen. Hast du viel Hunger für den Speck und Eier? "Was zum Teufel machst du da?!" "Bis du ganz verrucht?" "Ach! Daß ist Schnapsidee!" They cooked simple dishes such as Schenkenflecken and Judlicki or Jüdlichi (spelling?). No one seems to heard of the latter. From the root, it appears that it might be of Jewish origin. But they also said, "Jak se mas?" "Ja bily parodni baba." My great grandfather was very tall, and he would jokingly call a short fellow a "spunt," or "Spund," the former of which is Czech for "dwarf" or "elf" and the latter German for "bung" or "plug" in a beer barrel. Both are pronounced virtually the same and both could metaphorically refer to a short guy. For example: "Siehst du da am jener kleiner Spund aus?" Er ist mein Boss." "Videt ze tam spunt? On je muy sef. I do not recall his using the word "zakrslika" for runt. Why should they be German speakers, being from Kocin, Kralovice, Plzen? P. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ From: Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> To: Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net>; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries Kocin, Kralovice is in the Plzen area in the Czech speaking region of Bohemia (during the Monarchy). In that area, most Czech people spoke German, also. You can detect the ethnicity of you family in finding Kocin or Kralovice church records at the archives at Plzen. Kralovice (Kralowitz) is northeast of Plzen towards the Czech interior, and if you look at the map, Rakovnik is to the northeast, Stribro to the southwest. Go from Stribro northeast to Rakovnik and you should find it. Pilsen (Plzen) lies to the South. Since there is also a Kralowitz in the Bukovina, you will have to use the Kocin designation for a correct identification of the area and I found Kocin and Kralovice in the Plzen area. Aida On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net>wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patricia Moos" <ppk1502@ymail.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:22 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries > > > >Are people from the Kocin, Kralovice area > > > > Which one..there are two places that comply with this parameter. > > > > > >considered to be German-Bohemians? > > > let us know which village...give a map which shows the location. > > > > >It seems to be on or near the boundary and I cannot tell for sure > >from > >the maps. > > My great grandparents had a purely Czech names, but seemed to have > spoken German as a first language, since that is what they mostly > taught > their children. They also spoke "Bohemian," as they called it, > > > > that is Czech language,. > > > > and something called "Slavisch," which I take to be Slovak, but am > > not > > sure. > > > > Slavisch means Slavic. Thus, they probably spoke Czech language, not > German. > > > >Would like to know your opinions. > > Pat > > ________ > > Lavrentiy > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

/ Pyotr (Peter) Chajkovsky's Slavonic March http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxlytWahi7M&feature=related ________ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 5:58 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] German-Bohemian boundaries > You wrote: > > > > I infer that "Slavisch/Slavish" must have been an erroneous > Anglicization of the word, "Slovak" or "Slovenska," > > > Slavisch means Slavonic/Slavic, like: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHvG2g9LBVU > > > > http://www.vocabulary.com/definition/nl/Slavisch > > http://analogical-dictionary.sensagent.com/mw2346880/ML-en-nl/ > > > > I wouldn't say that it means Slovak, or Czech or any other specific > Slavic language. > > ____ > > Lavrentiy > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

/ Ethno-linquistic map of Bohemia: http://www.thomasgraz.net/glass/map-ethn.htm http://terkepek.adatbank.transindex.ro/kepek/netre/198.gif http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Austria_Hungary_ethnic.svg _____ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries > Map of Sudetenland: > > http://www.skylighters.org/graden/maps.html > > > http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.skylighters.org/graden/images/sudmap01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.skylighters.org/graden/maps.html&h=285&w=474&sz=24&tbnid=ti97_UDxPZextM:&tbnh=76&tbnw=127&zoom=1&docid=oEnMZCGYwtiObM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TUMbT6GgBsKz0QG1r43dCw&ved=0CDcQ9QEwAw&dur=93 > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland > > ________ > > Lavrentiy > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patricia Moos" <ppk1502@ymail.com> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:27 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries > > > Yes, thank you for the reply. I already know where it is and how to > find it. I have corresponded with people there. I have found and > copied BMD records online at the Plzen Archive site. > > I simply wanted to know whether or not if this Kocin in question is > considered to lie within the unclear and ephemeral boundaries which > you folks on this list refer to as German-Bohemian, and/or > Sudetenland. All of that is unclear to me. > > THE REASON I ASK IS THIS: > > "My" Kocin in question seems to lie A LITTLE SOUTH of the SOUTHERN > LIMIT of the Sudetenland or German-Bohemian boundary on the map(s) > you, Aida, posted. > > Therefore, my grandparents and great grandparents should have spoken > CZECH/Bohemian as a FIRST LANGUAGE. > > Yet it seems that they spoke German as a first language instead, and > this is the language they spoke at home (other than English). > They DID SPEAK CZECH, but not as much. > > They said things such as, "Was ist hier denn los? > Or, " Was ist los mit dich?" [Should have said "...mit dir" -- dative > case] > They said, "Es erfreut mir ihnen kennenzulernen." > Or simply "Erfreut mir." > "Gute nacht. Schläft wohl." > "Guten Morgen. Hast du viel Hunger für den Speck und Eier? > "Was zum Teufel machst du da?!" > "Bis du ganz verrucht?" > "Ach! Daß ist Schnapsidee!" > > They cooked simple dishes such as Schenkenflecken and Judlicki or > Jüdlichi (spelling?). No one seems to heard of the latter. From the > root, it appears that it might be of Jewish origin. > > But they also said, "Jak se mas?" > "Ja bily parodni baba." > > My great grandfather was very tall, and he would jokingly call a short > fellow a "spunt," or "Spund," the former of which is Czech for "dwarf" > or "elf" and the latter German for "bung" or "plug" in a beer barrel. > Both are pronounced virtually the same and both could metaphorically > refer to a short guy. For example: > "Siehst du da am jener kleiner Spund aus?" Er ist mein Boss." > "Videt ze tam spunt? On je muy sef. > I do not recall his using the word "zakrslika" for runt. > > Why should they be German speakers, being from Kocin, Kralovice, > Plzen? > > P. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> > To: Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net>; > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:35 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries > > Kocin, Kralovice is in the Plzen area in the Czech speaking region of > Bohemia (during the Monarchy). In that area, most Czech people spoke > German, also. You can detect the ethnicity of you family in finding > Kocin > or Kralovice church records at the archives at Plzen. Kralovice > (Kralowitz) is northeast of Plzen towards the Czech interior, and if > you > look at the map, Rakovnik is to the northeast, Stribro to the > southwest. > Go from Stribro northeast to Rakovnik and you should find it. Pilsen > (Plzen) lies to the South. > Since there is also a Kralowitz in the Bukovina, you will have to use > the > Kocin designation for a correct identification of the area and I found > Kocin and Kralovice in the Plzen area. > Aida > > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Laurence Krupnak > <LKrupnak@verizon.net>wrote: > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Patricia Moos" <ppk1502@ymail.com> >> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:22 PM >> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries >> >> >> >Are people from the Kocin, Kralovice area >> >> >> >> Which one..there are two places that comply with this parameter. >> >> >> >> >> >considered to be German-Bohemians? >> >> >> let us know which village...give a map which shows the location. >> >> >> >> >It seems to be on or near the boundary and I cannot tell for sure >> >from >> >the maps. >> >> My great grandparents had a purely Czech names, but seemed to have >> spoken German as a first language, since that is what they mostly >> taught >> their children. They also spoke "Bohemian," as they called it, >> >> >> >> that is Czech language,. >> >> >> > and something called "Slavisch," which I take to be Slovak, but am >> > not >> > sure. >> >> >> >> Slavisch means Slavic. Thus, they probably spoke Czech language, not >> German. >> >> >> >Would like to know your opinions. >> >> Pat >> >> ________ >> >> Lavrentiy >> >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Map of Sudetenland: http://www.skylighters.org/graden/maps.html http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.skylighters.org/graden/images/sudmap01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.skylighters.org/graden/maps.html&h=285&w=474&sz=24&tbnid=ti97_UDxPZextM:&tbnh=76&tbnw=127&zoom=1&docid=oEnMZCGYwtiObM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TUMbT6GgBsKz0QG1r43dCw&ved=0CDcQ9QEwAw&dur=93 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland ________ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Moos" <ppk1502@ymail.com> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries Yes, thank you for the reply. I already know where it is and how to find it. I have corresponded with people there. I have found and copied BMD records online at the Plzen Archive site. I simply wanted to know whether or not if this Kocin in question is considered to lie within the unclear and ephemeral boundaries which you folks on this list refer to as German-Bohemian, and/or Sudetenland. All of that is unclear to me. THE REASON I ASK IS THIS: "My" Kocin in question seems to lie A LITTLE SOUTH of the SOUTHERN LIMIT of the Sudetenland or German-Bohemian boundary on the map(s) you, Aida, posted. Therefore, my grandparents and great grandparents should have spoken CZECH/Bohemian as a FIRST LANGUAGE. Yet it seems that they spoke German as a first language instead, and this is the language they spoke at home (other than English). They DID SPEAK CZECH, but not as much. They said things such as, "Was ist hier denn los? Or, " Was ist los mit dich?" [Should have said "...mit dir" -- dative case] They said, "Es erfreut mir ihnen kennenzulernen." Or simply "Erfreut mir." "Gute nacht. Schläft wohl." "Guten Morgen. Hast du viel Hunger für den Speck und Eier? "Was zum Teufel machst du da?!" "Bis du ganz verrucht?" "Ach! Daß ist Schnapsidee!" They cooked simple dishes such as Schenkenflecken and Judlicki or Jüdlichi (spelling?). No one seems to heard of the latter. From the root, it appears that it might be of Jewish origin. But they also said, "Jak se mas?" "Ja bily parodni baba." My great grandfather was very tall, and he would jokingly call a short fellow a "spunt," or "Spund," the former of which is Czech for "dwarf" or "elf" and the latter German for "bung" or "plug" in a beer barrel. Both are pronounced virtually the same and both could metaphorically refer to a short guy. For example: "Siehst du da am jener kleiner Spund aus?" Er ist mein Boss." "Videt ze tam spunt? On je muy sef. I do not recall his using the word "zakrslika" for runt. Why should they be German speakers, being from Kocin, Kralovice, Plzen? P. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ From: Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> To: Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net>; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries Kocin, Kralovice is in the Plzen area in the Czech speaking region of Bohemia (during the Monarchy). In that area, most Czech people spoke German, also. You can detect the ethnicity of you family in finding Kocin or Kralovice church records at the archives at Plzen. Kralovice (Kralowitz) is northeast of Plzen towards the Czech interior, and if you look at the map, Rakovnik is to the northeast, Stribro to the southwest. Go from Stribro northeast to Rakovnik and you should find it. Pilsen (Plzen) lies to the South. Since there is also a Kralowitz in the Bukovina, you will have to use the Kocin designation for a correct identification of the area and I found Kocin and Kralovice in the Plzen area. Aida On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net>wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patricia Moos" <ppk1502@ymail.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:22 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries > > > >Are people from the Kocin, Kralovice area > > > > Which one..there are two places that comply with this parameter. > > > > > >considered to be German-Bohemians? > > > let us know which village...give a map which shows the location. > > > > >It seems to be on or near the boundary and I cannot tell for sure > >from > >the maps. > > My great grandparents had a purely Czech names, but seemed to have > spoken German as a first language, since that is what they mostly > taught > their children. They also spoke "Bohemian," as they called it, > > > > that is Czech language,. > > > > and something called "Slavisch," which I take to be Slovak, but am > > not > > sure. > > > > Slavisch means Slavic. Thus, they probably spoke Czech language, not > German. > > > >Would like to know your opinions. > > Pat > > ________ > > Lavrentiy > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You wrote: I infer that "Slavisch/Slavish" must have been an erroneous Anglicization of the word, "Slovak" or "Slovenska," Slavisch means Slavonic/Slavic, like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHvG2g9LBVU http://www.vocabulary.com/definition/nl/Slavisch http://analogical-dictionary.sensagent.com/mw2346880/ML-en-nl/ I wouldn't say that it means Slovak, or Czech or any other specific Slavic language. ____ Lavrentiy

----- Original Message ----- From: David Crider To: Laurence Krupnak Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries My dear Lavrentiy, Thank you for your reply and your interest. However, I beg your pardon, but there is only one Kocin, Kralovice, that is, the one in or near the German-Bohemian border area, NE of Plzen, sheer you find the city of KRALOVICE. Yes, you are correct. What does the word "sheer" mean? _______ Lavrentiy

A very BIG thank you to Aida for her helpful post. I have also received several very informative help from list members, and I am very grateful for their replies. Kind regards to all. Marybeth C. acmbjc@aol.com ========================== Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:24:30 -0800 From: Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] How to find PLZEN archive site for Graslitz (German name of area) now Kraslice To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Graslitz (Kraslice) is in the Egerland on the foot of the Erzgebirge (Kruzne Hory) between Eger (Cheb) and Karlsbad (Karlovy Vary) if you want to find it on the map. A good source is www.mapy.cz The Egerland was 100% German before the expulsion of all Germans from there in 1945-1947. Graslitz was known for the manufacture of musical instruments. You can access German Church Registers archived at Plzen (Pilsen) through your computer by going on this web site (you will have to register, but it is free). http://actapublica.eu/index.php To navigate this site, search in the archives of the German Bohemian List and you will find instruction how to navigate acta publica. Look under that subject where you will find lengthy discussions and instructions. To enter this site key in: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Aida On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 8:57 AM, <acmbjc@aol.com> wrote: > > Regarding the post below from ppk1501@ymail.com, I would like to search > the Plzen archives for the Staniek surname. My ancestors came to western > PA in 1853, and have found them listed on the Castle Garden site as leaving > Bremen. They considered themselves German, although the Staniek surname > appears to be Slavik. Family records have them living in Graslitz now > Kraslice. Any help will be most appreciated. > > Thank you. > > > Marybeth C. > acmbjc@aol.com > > ===========================================================

_http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/4295/?strana=143_ (http://actapublica.eu/matriky/plzen/prohlizec/4295/?strana=143) direct link to Staniek baptism record on 11 Aug 1822 In a message dated 1/20/2012 7:04:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, acmbjc@aol.com writes: I sincerely do not want to be a bother, but can someone please explain where the year is listed in the PLZEN archives? I have figured out how to register, and found the parish of Kraslice, but can't determine the year for the records. Specifically searching for a Friederich STANIEK, b. 10 Aug 1822, Graslitz son of Anton STANIEK and Maria Franziska LAUSMANN. Believe me when I say that I have worked at this off and on for several months, and just can't get the hang of it. I did find a very good set of directions on the Family Search.org learn site, but as the saying goes, it is "all Greek to me". I did finally figure out how to register using the German language. I know a tiny bit of German, not much, mind you. Also hit the magnifying glass symbol for the time frame 1817--1824, found the months but can't find the year 1822. Any help will be greatly appreciated. And just to add I am trying to find the siblings for Friederich, either baptism, marriage, death. They were Catholic, and their first born son Joseph Enders Staniek born 3 Feb 1847 was baptized at the "Most Holy Body of Christ" church; parents Friederich Staniek and Maria Theresia Enders. This much I have from family notes here in the US. Thanks so much! Marybeth Corrigall acmbjc@aol.com German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Obviously not everything is databased as yet, so give it a little more time. They have notations on the link I gave you, and what is on line presently has these words next to it: "Neu in Archiv" -- meaning that this part is available, but those that do not have this label are not archived as yet. Aida On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 5:00 PM, <acmbjc@aol.com> wrote: > I sincerely do not want to be a bother, but can someone please explain > where the year is listed in the PLZEN archives? I have figured out how to > register, and found the parish of Kraslice, but can't determine the year > for the records. Specifically searching for a Friederich STANIEK, b. 10 > Aug 1822, Graslitz son of Anton STANIEK and Maria Franziska LAUSMANN. > > > Believe me when I say that I have worked at this off and on for several > months, and just can't get the hang of it. I did find a very good set of > directions on the Family Search.org learn site, but as the saying goes, it > is "all Greek to me". > > > I did finally figure out how to register using the German language. I > know a tiny bit of German, not much, mind you. Also hit the magnifying > glass symbol for the time frame 1817--1824, found the months but can't find > the year 1822. > > Any help will be greatly appreciated. > > > And just to add I am trying to find the siblings for Friederich, either > baptism, marriage, death. They were Catholic, and their first born son > Joseph Enders Staniek born 3 Feb 1847 was baptized at the "Most Holy Body > of Christ" church; parents Friederich Staniek and Maria Theresia Enders. > This much I have from family notes here in the US. > > > Thanks so much! > > Marybeth Corrigall > acmbjc@aol.com > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I you check on the name Kraslice, they should give you the church registers that are available and the years. Lets see what I can find for you that they should have in their archives. Go to this site and scroll down and you can see what should be available in the archives at Plzen - meaning on the internet provided that they have databased it yet. http://www.genealogy.net/reg/SUD/kb/graslitz.html Aida On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 5:00 PM, <acmbjc@aol.com> wrote: > I sincerely do not want to be a bother, but can someone please explain > where the year is listed in the PLZEN archives? I have figured out how to > register, and found the parish of Kraslice, but can't determine the year > for the records. Specifically searching for a Friederich STANIEK, b. 10 > Aug 1822, Graslitz son of Anton STANIEK and Maria Franziska LAUSMANN. > > > Believe me when I say that I have worked at this off and on for several > months, and just can't get the hang of it. I did find a very good set of > directions on the Family Search.org learn site, but as the saying goes, it > is "all Greek to me". > > > I did finally figure out how to register using the German language. I > know a tiny bit of German, not much, mind you. Also hit the magnifying > glass symbol for the time frame 1817--1824, found the months but can't find > the year 1822. > > Any help will be greatly appreciated. > > > And just to add I am trying to find the siblings for Friederich, either > baptism, marriage, death. They were Catholic, and their first born son > Joseph Enders Staniek born 3 Feb 1847 was baptized at the "Most Holy Body > of Christ" church; parents Friederich Staniek and Maria Theresia Enders. > This much I have from family notes here in the US. > > > Thanks so much! > > Marybeth Corrigall > acmbjc@aol.com > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I sincerely do not want to be a bother, but can someone please explain where the year is listed in the PLZEN archives? I have figured out how to register, and found the parish of Kraslice, but can't determine the year for the records. Specifically searching for a Friederich STANIEK, b. 10 Aug 1822, Graslitz son of Anton STANIEK and Maria Franziska LAUSMANN. Believe me when I say that I have worked at this off and on for several months, and just can't get the hang of it. I did find a very good set of directions on the Family Search.org learn site, but as the saying goes, it is "all Greek to me". I did finally figure out how to register using the German language. I know a tiny bit of German, not much, mind you. Also hit the magnifying glass symbol for the time frame 1817--1824, found the months but can't find the year 1822. Any help will be greatly appreciated. And just to add I am trying to find the siblings for Friederich, either baptism, marriage, death. They were Catholic, and their first born son Joseph Enders Staniek born 3 Feb 1847 was baptized at the "Most Holy Body of Christ" church; parents Friederich Staniek and Maria Theresia Enders. This much I have from family notes here in the US. Thanks so much! Marybeth Corrigall acmbjc@aol.com

Hello Aida. One more point. One of the reasons I am trying to find out more about the name is because I would like to know its origin. There are two cities near Prague, Kollin and Kolin. I am not sure which - if any - my ancestors are from. Eventually I would like to visit the places of origin. Any insights are appreciated. Thank you, Joe Joe Kolinger - Chief Technology Officer OfficeWork Software Office: (415) 898-2300 | Cell: (415) 246-7264 | Fax: (415) 598-1573 joe@officeworksoftware.com | www.officeworksoftware.com -----Original Message----- From: Joe Kolinger (OWS) [mailto:joe@officeworksoftware.com] Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 15:38 To: 'german-bohemian@rootsweb.com' Cc: 'german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com'; 'Bill Kolinger' Subject: Dropping an L from the name Kollinger when coming to the US in 1890 Hello Aida, I am new to this site. Please forgive me if I am not sending this to you in the right format. My Ancestors are from Czechoslovakia and I am trying to find out why one of the 'L's got dropped from our surname. My great grandfather was John Joseph Kolinger, born in Pribram in 1867. He came to the US about 1890 and settled in Chicago. In 1971 my dad managed to get a paper record of the birth certificate ('Rodny List') during a business trip to Prague. The birth certificate shows the name as Jan Kollinger (two L's). So it seems that for some reason my great-grandfather changed his name by dropping one of the 'L's when coming to the US. But, why, I have no idea. The family story is that he did do this, but we are not sure and do not know why. There are both Kolingers and Kollingers in the Czech Republic, so it makes me wonder if the birth certificate (attached) is incorrect? Interestingly, we have always pronounced our surname as though it had two "L's. The name is written as Kolinger, but pronounced Kollinger. Any insights you have on the likely reason for dropping the 'L' would be appreciated. Seems like a small thing, but I suspect it is tied to a desperate attempt to assimilate into the new homeland. I would also like to see if I can identify any family members who share the same great-great grandparents (Josef Kollinger and Marie (Turkova) Kollinger). Thank you very much. Joe Kolinger Joe Kolinger - Chief Technology Officer OfficeWork Software Office: (415) 898-2300 | Cell: (415) 246-7264 | Fax: (415) 598-1573 joe@officeworksoftware.com | www.officeworksoftware.com -----Original Message----- From: german-bohemian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:german-bohemian-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 12:49 To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 16 German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ Today's Topics: 1. Re: Distinction of Czech versus German surnames (Aida Kraus) 2. Re: German language in Bohemia (Robert Paulson) 3. Re: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15 (ron krzmarzick) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 12:19:57 -0800 From: Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Distinction of Czech versus German surnames To: polloe@earthlink.net, german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CAMswtwqDs9+XzPtA3nemXk-Mw-AseJQtG2qFfgnmko2d0XGK_A@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Elaine, it would help to keep this probability in mind, and if they went to Slovakia, you most likely have to figure on 3 languages: Slovakian, Hungarian and German. You detect a name that is derived from a profession, like Taylor, Cooper, Smith, etc. you can use the Google translator to find the equivalent in another language. But let me tell you beforehand, that this is rare indeed, they most likely used phonetics of the original name in their spelling. I have such a case in my family: DuMont. It is spelled Dimong, Demon, Damon, and Dimmon. To "sort it out" and actually find YOUR ancestor, you have to go by location, date and parentage, mate, children! As a rule of thumb, and what I encountered in my own research, I found that there was less "translation" of a name but phonetic aberrations. However, before 1800 it might be possible, and just as emigrants from other countries anglizised their names upon receiving US Citizenship. Be alert to all possibilities, because these findings are sometimes astounding and I have gone through the same church registers several times before I made the connection. So pay attention to what you read and speak the names out loud! Aida On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:54 AM, <polloe@earthlink.net> wrote: > Aida, and All, > > Ya seem to raise an interesting issue below. If the Surname sometimes > changed from Czech to German or German to Czech depending on the area a > family lived in or moved to, then IF we have a "Brickwall", maybe it would > be good to look for the Surname as translated into the other language. > > Would the above be a good idea? > > How about with given names? Were they likely to change between languages > as well? I'm tracing a Karola. His marriage record in Trnava (now Slovakia) > (was Hungary) not far from the Czech border, lists his place of birth as > Brno. I have not found his Birth record from Brno CZ as yet. Is it likely I > will find variations of the Given Name as well? > > Thanks in advance, > > Elaine > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> > >Sent: Jan 16, 2012 7:20 PM > >To: GBHS <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Distinction of Czech versus German female > surnames > > > >Under the Austrian Hungarian Empire most church records were written in > the > >language of its ethnic population after the 19th century. Throughout the > >Austrian Hungarian Empire there were more than 9 languages spoken (German, > >Hungarian, Slovakian, Czech, Polish, Ukrainian, Croatian, Serbian and > >Romanian and others). Actually, the Austrian Hungarian Empire was a > >fore-runner of what we have today in Europe - a "United Europe". Austria > >Hungary was very international and colorful, but with a dominant German or > >Hungarian administration for their regions. Regional administration used > >the language of their population. During the Empire years there were > > either predominantly German or Czech Cities and villages and many other > >ethnic population centers. > > When the Latin language of Catholic church registers was replaced by > >the language of the region, it is there that you will be able to tell the > >ethnicity of your ancestry by looking at the language used in these church > >records. Pay attention to your find and see if they were written either > in > >Czech or German and you will know your families ethnicity. Surnames do > >hardly pinpoint ethnicity, because intermarriage-names show as many to be > >translated to German as they were translated to Czech. For instance the > >German name Schmied (a smith) might be translated to the Czech > >equivalent: Kov?? > >when they moved into a predominantly Czech region; or the Czech family > by > >the name by Kovar might have acquired the German name of Schmied by moving > >to a predominantly German region.; so you really cannot tell just by > >surnames what ethnicity they might have had. Here is an example: You can > >be sure that the record shows in the Czech language if the female ending > > "ova" is at the end of the surname. Here is an example: > >The family surname "Schmied" would be listed as "Schmiedova or Smidova" > >found in a Czech register for a female. German records would never show > >the ending "ova" for a female, and the text would be German and the female > >name listed as Schmied or even Smid without the "ova" ending. However, in > >older records (end of 1700 and beginning of 1800) you might find the > ending > >"in" attached to a German surname for a German female, hence, "Schmiedin." > > So remember: "ova" = Czech, no ending or "in" ending = German. This is > >your key to ethnic distinction. > > Aida > > > > > >On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:17 PM, <nechkash@comcast.net> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> I am quite sure of my father - my grandmother (the Wintra, Winter, > >> Winters, eta) family came from Vesele, Bohemia, Czech and several > >> surrounding villages in 1778. But my father - my grandfather (the > Neckar > >> lineage ), I am not sure. All that I know is John Neckar (my > gr-gr-father) > >> came through New York S tate to Wisconsin around 1854. I sometimes > wonder > >> if the Neckar were actually of German decent, and not Slavic. > >> > >> > >> > >> Dan Nechkash > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> > >> > >> From: "Aida Kraus" <birchbaylady@gmail.com> > >> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 4:49:48 PM > >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] 1929/30 Czech Census! > >> > >> Czech and German are two entirely different languages. Czech's base > roots > >> are Slavic and similar to Polish and Russian. German has its base in > >> Germanic language roots, like Austrian, Swiss, and is related to all > >> Scandinavian languages and German dialects. If your ancestral family > >> residing in Bohemia spoke both languages, they were bilingual. You > spoke > >> either German or Czech in Bohemia. The Czechs referred to their home > >> language as "Bohemian" and the Germans from Bohemia referred to their > home > >> dialect "Bohemian" when they were away from home and lived in America. > So > >> I hope that this will make you > >> aware that your family spoke two entirely different language, and now > you > >> have to find written records in either language to identify their > >> ethnicity. > >> Aida > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------- > >> > >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:34 PM, <nechkash@comcast.net> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > Hello Aida, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > My father was born as a second-generation US citizen in Wisconsin, but > >> > didn't speak English until he went to grade school (about 1931). The > >> > > >> > family and all the local's spoken only the native tongue (Bohemian). > He > >> > and my Aunt Mary always claimed they also understand German because > >> > > >> > it was similar enough to the Bohemian language? Is this the case? > >> > Thanks, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Daniel Nechkash > >> > > >> > >> > >German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:47:56 -0600 From: Robert Paulson <rpaulgb@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] German language in Bohemia To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <B9CC7E8A-EEB3-4782-937E-136D6EDC80D0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Helen, A great many German speakers from the Bohemian Forest area migrated to Bukovina which parts of is now Romania. If you go to www.bukovinasociety.org you will find answers to you questions. Bob On Jan 18, 2012, at 10:33 AM, HELEN M WHITE wrote: > My Family ( Grandparents)are ;. Catholic- Farmers & woodcutters of > Bohemian forest. > Where exactly I do not know. It is said they spoke "Low German" > Does this give me a lead of how to find them in Bohemia before they > emigrated to > Paltinossa, Suceava dist.of Austrian Empire ...now Romania, abt 1817 > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:05 AM, Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> From Aida: I am highlighting some paragraphs of interest to us from the >> article submitted by Mr. Krupnak which highlights our Bohemian-German >> dialects spoken in Western Bohemia: >> Iink: >> >> http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/reworking-of-german-language-c lassification-part-3-high-german/ >> >> *Oberpf?lz North >> Bavarian< >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~janblotz/arnoldresearch3.h tm >>> >> * (Oberpf?lzerisch or Oberpf?lzisch) is a language spoken in southeastern >> Germany in central eastern and northeastern Bavaria from Regensburg, >> Kelheim and the Bavarian Forest north along the Naab River to the >> Fichtelgebirge (Fir Mountains) and in the Northern Bohemian Forest along >> the border with Czechoslovakia. It is also spoken up by Neumarkt. >> >> According to residents (Kirmaier 2009), this is a separate language, not >> intelligible with other German Bavarian lects. Dialects of this language >> include *Danube Oberpf?lzisch *, which, though different, is fully >> intelligible with the Oberpf?lzisch spoken in Neumarkt. This is the >> Oberpf?lzisch spoken along the Danube around the towns of Kelheim and >> Regensburg. >> >> *Bohemian German*< >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans_in_the_Czech_Republic >>> (Boehmerwaelderischish< >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN/2007-05/117837 9647 >>> ) >> is a High German language spoken in Czechoslovakia, Germany and the US. It >> looks like both< >> http://books.google.com/books?id=8uxfTF4Lm-kC&pg=PA598&lpg=PA598&dq=%22bohem ian+german%22+dialect&source=bl&ots=4nnlM3ZukV&sig=yBfEQB1ndQSgikiFgVpWCo8C7 _E&hl=en&ei=5mK-SYfdFJmQsQP5uPBD&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA5 97,M1 >>> North >> and Central Bavarian. >> >> *Egerland Bohemian >> German*< >> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gbhs/newsletter/Heimatbrief_March_2000.pdf >>> (Egerlaenderisch) >> is spoken in Bischofteinitz, Mies, Tachau and Taus >> Counties in the Czech Republic in Western Bohemia and in and around New >> Ulm, Minnesota, where there are still speakers ranging from 52-98 years >> old. In the Czech Republic, each village had a separate dialect, but all >> dialects are intelligible. This appears to be a separate >> language< >> http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN/2006-05/1147996153 >>> from >> Oberpfalz Northern Bavarian. >> >> This seems to be the same language as * Sechs?mterland * spoken across the >> border. The Sechs?mterland dialect is spoken in the area around Selb, >> Wunsiedel, Hohenberg and Thierstein in the far northeast of Bavaria near >> the border with Czechoslovakia and Lower Saxony. >> >> Dialectal diversity is very high in this area, and every village has its >> own dialect. >> >> *Lauterbach* is a divergent dialect spoken east of Tirschenreuth on the >> Czech border. *Tiss* is a >> divergent< >> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gbhs/newsletter/Heimatbrief_March_2003.pdf >>> subdialect >> of Egerland. >> *Sangerberg* is a divergent Egerlaenderisch dialect spoken in Prameny, >> Czechoslovakia. *Cheb (note from Aida: I never heard of a dialect named >> "Cheb", as "Cheb" is the Czech translation for the city of Eger!) * is >> spoken in the large German city of the same name. *Tachauer* is a dialect >> that formed the >> basis<http://www.members.shaw.ca/brianmerz/Genealogy/folklore.htm>for >> the >> * Machliniec* dialect spoken formerly spoken by the Carpathian Germans in >> their language island in the Machliniec area of the Ukraine. They left >> during WW2. >> >> *German Central Bavarian* is a group of Bavarian lects that are spoken in >> Germany. This group includes Lower Bavarian, Upper Bavarian and *Lechrain >> Bavarian* (Lechrainisch). Lechrain Bavarian is spoken in Western Bavaria >> and is transitional to Swabian. Map of the Lechrain >> region<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lechrain.svg>. >> Lechrain is very >> different< >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/BAVARIAN-ANCESTORS/2001-10/100 3966871 >>> from >> the rest of Bavarian, but intelligibility data is lacking. >> >> Lower Bavarian includes the Bohemian Forest language and many dialects. >> >> Upper Bavarian includes the Starnberg, Highland and Meisbach languages and >> many dialects. >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > -- > *hwhitemc* > > "Live simply; Care deeply; Love generously;" and most importantly, "Speak > kindly." ...by Sam @ MTPR > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:48:30 -0600 From: "ron krzmarzick" <rlkrz@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15 To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <201201182048.q0IKmVC9009599@mail.rootsweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The links to Mr. Lindsay's seemingly exhaustive and interesting language studies are welcomed; however; I must say further that Mr.Lindsay's website reveal other subjects of an overwhelmingly political and even socio-racial nature the likes of which I have not seen before. Tread this site with caution. Ron -----Original Message----- From: german-bohemian-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:german-bohemian-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 1:55 PM To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15 German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ Today's Topics: 1. German language in Bohemia (Aida Kraus) 2. Re: German language in Bohemia (HELEN M WHITE) 3. Re: German language in Bohemia (Aida Kraus) 4. Re: Distinction of Czech versus German surnames (polloe@earthlink.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 08:05:23 -0800 From: Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] German language in Bohemia To: GBHS <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <CAMswtwqrP-TJFBd9s=sCrZ_4qhddXSFiQJzGe9Jwz+bc4wkggQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >From Aida: I am highlighting some paragraphs of interest to us from the article submitted by Mr. Krupnak which highlights our Bohemian-German dialects spoken in Western Bohemia: Iink: http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/reworking-of-german-language-c lassification-part-3-high-german/ *Oberpf?lz North Bavarian<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~janblotz/arnoldre search3.htm> * (Oberpf?lzerisch or Oberpf?lzisch) is a language spoken in southeastern Germany in central eastern and northeastern Bavaria from Regensburg, Kelheim and the Bavarian Forest north along the Naab River to the Fichtelgebirge (Fir Mountains) and in the Northern Bohemian Forest along the border with Czechoslovakia. It is also spoken up by Neumarkt. According to residents (Kirmaier 2009), this is a separate language, not intelligible with other German Bavarian lects. Dialects of this language include *Danube Oberpf?lzisch *, which, though different, is fully intelligible with the Oberpf?lzisch spoken in Neumarkt. This is the Oberpf?lzisch spoken along the Danube around the towns of Kelheim and Regensburg. *Bohemian German*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans_in_the_Czech_Republic>(Boehmerw aelderischish<http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN/ 2007-05/1178379647>) is a High German language spoken in Czechoslovakia, Germany and the US. It looks like both<http://books.google.com/books?id=8uxfTF4Lm-kC&pg=PA598&lpg=PA598&dq=%22 bohemian+german%22+dialect&source=bl&ots=4nnlM3ZukV&sig=yBfEQB1ndQSgikiFgVpW Co8C7_E&hl=en&ei=5mK-SYfdFJmQsQP5uPBD&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result #PPA597,M1>North and Central Bavarian. *Egerland Bohemian German*<http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gbhs/newsletter/Heimatbrief_March_ 2000.pdf>(Egerlaenderisch) is spoken in Bischofteinitz, Mies, Tachau and Taus Counties in the Czech Republic in Western Bohemia and in and around New Ulm, Minnesota, where there are still speakers ranging from 52-98 years old. In the Czech Republic, each village had a separate dialect, but all dialects are intelligible. This appears to be a separate language<http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN/2006-05/11 47996153>from Oberpfalz Northern Bavarian. This seems to be the same language as * Sechs?mterland * spoken across the border. The Sechs?mterland dialect is spoken in the area around Selb, Wunsiedel, Hohenberg and Thierstein in the far northeast of Bavaria near the border with Czechoslovakia and Lower Saxony. Dialectal diversity is very high in this area, and every village has its own dialect. *Lauterbach* is a divergent dialect spoken east of Tirschenreuth on the Czech border. *Tiss* is a divergent<http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gbhs/newsletter/Heimatbrief_Marc h_2003.pdf>subdialect of Egerland. *Sangerberg* is a divergent Egerlaenderisch dialect spoken in Prameny, Czechoslovakia. *Cheb (note from Aida: I never heard of a dialect named "Cheb", as "Cheb" is the Czech translation for the city of Eger!) * is spoken in the large German city of the same name. *Tachauer* is a dialect that formed the basis<http://www.members.shaw.ca/brianmerz/Genealogy/folklore.htm>for the * Machliniec* dialect spoken formerly spoken by the Carpathian Germans in their language island in the Machliniec area of the Ukraine. They left during WW2. *German Central Bavarian* is a group of Bavarian lects that are spoken in Germany. This group includes Lower Bavarian, Upper Bavarian and *Lechrain Bavarian* (Lechrainisch). Lechrain Bavarian is spoken in Western Bavaria and is transitional to Swabian. Map of the Lechrain region<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lechrain.svg>. Lechrain is very different<http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/BAVARIAN-ANCESTORS/2 001-10/1003966871>from the rest of Bavarian, but intelligibility data is lacking. Lower Bavarian includes the Bohemian Forest language and many dialects. Upper Bavarian includes the Starnberg, Highland and Meisbach languages and many dialects. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 09:33:44 -0700 From: HELEN M WHITE <hwhitemc8309@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] German language in Bohemia To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CALTeD8u9M3cxtTmGuE1ht_P68Aao8BjSjSPDGc7B8v03uca78w@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 My Family ( Grandparents)are ;. Catholic- Farmers & woodcutters of Bohemian forest. Where exactly I do not know. It is said they spoke "Low German" Does this give me a lead of how to find them in Bohemia before they emigrated to Paltinossa, Suceava dist.of Austrian Empire ...now Romania, abt 1817 On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:05 AM, Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> wrote: > >From Aida: I am highlighting some paragraphs of interest to us from the > article submitted by Mr. Krupnak which highlights our Bohemian-German > dialects spoken in Western Bohemia: > Iink: > > http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/reworking-of-german-language-c lassification-part-3-high-german/ > > *Oberpf?lz North > Bavarian< > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~janblotz/arnoldresearch3.h tm > > > * (Oberpf?lzerisch or Oberpf?lzisch) is a language spoken in southeastern > Germany in central eastern and northeastern Bavaria from Regensburg, > Kelheim and the Bavarian Forest north along the Naab River to the > Fichtelgebirge (Fir Mountains) and in the Northern Bohemian Forest along > the border with Czechoslovakia. It is also spoken up by Neumarkt. > > According to residents (Kirmaier 2009), this is a separate language, not > intelligible with other German Bavarian lects. Dialects of this language > include *Danube Oberpf?lzisch *, which, though different, is fully > intelligible with the Oberpf?lzisch spoken in Neumarkt. This is the > Oberpf?lzisch spoken along the Danube around the towns of Kelheim and > Regensburg. > > *Bohemian German*< > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans_in_the_Czech_Republic > >(Boehmerwaelderischish< > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN/2007-05/117837 9647 > >) > is a High German language spoken in Czechoslovakia, Germany and the US. It > looks like both< > http://books.google.com/books?id=8uxfTF4Lm-kC&pg=PA598&lpg=PA598&dq=%22bohem ian+german%22+dialect&source=bl&ots=4nnlM3ZukV&sig=yBfEQB1ndQSgikiFgVpWCo8C7 _E&hl=en&ei=5mK-SYfdFJmQsQP5uPBD&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA5 97,M1 > >North > and Central Bavarian. > > *Egerland Bohemian > German*< > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gbhs/newsletter/Heimatbrief_March_2000.pdf > >(Egerlaenderisch) > is spoken in Bischofteinitz, Mies, Tachau and Taus > Counties in the Czech Republic in Western Bohemia and in and around New > Ulm, Minnesota, where there are still speakers ranging from 52-98 years > old. In the Czech Republic, each village had a separate dialect, but all > dialects are intelligible. This appears to be a separate > language< > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN/2006-05/1147996153 > >from > Oberpfalz Northern Bavarian. > > This seems to be the same language as * Sechs?mterland * spoken across the > border. The Sechs?mterland dialect is spoken in the area around Selb, > Wunsiedel, Hohenberg and Thierstein in the far northeast of Bavaria near > the border with Czechoslovakia and Lower Saxony. > > Dialectal diversity is very high in this area, and every village has its > own dialect. > > *Lauterbach* is a divergent dialect spoken east of Tirschenreuth on the > Czech border. *Tiss* is a > divergent< > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gbhs/newsletter/Heimatbrief_March_2003.pdf > >subdialect > of Egerland. > *Sangerberg* is a divergent Egerlaenderisch dialect spoken in Prameny, > Czechoslovakia. *Cheb (note from Aida: I never heard of a dialect named > "Cheb", as "Cheb" is the Czech translation for the city of Eger!) * is > spoken in the large German city of the same name. *Tachauer* is a dialect > that formed the > basis<http://www.members.shaw.ca/brianmerz/Genealogy/folklore.htm>for > the > * Machliniec* dialect spoken formerly spoken by the Carpathian Germans in > their language island in the Machliniec area of the Ukraine. They left > during WW2. > > *German Central Bavarian* is a group of Bavarian lects that are spoken in > Germany. This group includes Lower Bavarian, Upper Bavarian and *Lechrain > Bavarian* (Lechrainisch). Lechrain Bavarian is spoken in Western Bavaria > and is transitional to Swabian. Map of the Lechrain > region<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lechrain.svg>. > Lechrain is very > different< > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/BAVARIAN-ANCESTORS/2001-10/100 3966871 > >from > the rest of Bavarian, but intelligibility data is lacking. > > Lower Bavarian includes the Bohemian Forest language and many dialects. > > Upper Bavarian includes the Starnberg, Highland and Meisbach languages and > many dialects. > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- *hwhitemc* "Live simply; Care deeply; Love generously;" and most importantly, "Speak kindly." ...by Sam @ MTPR ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 10:45:44 -0800 From: Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] German language in Bohemia To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <CAMswtwq2=VjoH_zUCBJQehPHhF9wsuqEC0FsDwvbxZU7PXufWA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Helen, the best way to find your family's origin is to go to the LDS Family Research Center in your area and look at the microfilms available (there are several rolls in alphabetical order of surnames) and you ca find them under the heading "Andsiedlerakten". This is a record of movement within the Austrian Hungarian Empire. If they went from Bohemia (part of the Empire) to Romania (which then was also part of the Empire) or from Bohemia to Galicia, for instance, their names should be recorded in that file. You could compare it to a move from one State of the US to another. There are records of these moves archived at the LDS. Good luck! Aida -------------------------------------- On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:33 AM, HELEN M WHITE <hwhitemc8309@gmail.com>wrote: > My Family ( Grandparents)are ;. Catholic- Farmers & woodcutters of > Bohemian forest. > Where exactly I do not know. It is said they spoke "Low German" > Does this give me a lead of how to find them in Bohemia before they > emigrated to > Paltinossa, Suceava dist.of Austrian Empire ...now Romania, abt 1817 > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:05 AM, Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >From Aida: I am highlighting some paragraphs of interest to us from > the > > article submitted by Mr. Krupnak which highlights our Bohemian-German > > dialects spoken in Western Bohemia: > > Iink: > > > > > http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/reworking-of-german-language-c lassification-part-3-high-german/ > > > > *Oberpf?lz North > > Bavarian< > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~janblotz/arnoldresearch3.h tm > > > > > * (Oberpf?lzerisch or Oberpf?lzisch) is a language spoken in southeastern > > Germany in central eastern and northeastern Bavaria from Regensburg, > > Kelheim and the Bavarian Forest north along the Naab River to the > > Fichtelgebirge (Fir Mountains) and in the Northern Bohemian Forest along > > the border with Czechoslovakia. It is also spoken up by Neumarkt. > > > > According to residents (Kirmaier 2009), this is a separate language, not > > intelligible with other German Bavarian lects. Dialects of this language > > include *Danube Oberpf?lzisch *, which, though different, is fully > > intelligible with the Oberpf?lzisch spoken in Neumarkt. This is the > > Oberpf?lzisch spoken along the Danube around the towns of Kelheim and > > Regensburg. > > > > *Bohemian German*< > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans_in_the_Czech_Republic > > >(Boehmerwaelderischish< > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN/2007-05/117837 9647 > > >) > > is a High German language spoken in Czechoslovakia, Germany and the US. > It > > looks like both< > > > http://books.google.com/books?id=8uxfTF4Lm-kC&pg=PA598&lpg=PA598&dq=%22bohem ian+german%22+dialect&source=bl&ots=4nnlM3ZukV&sig=yBfEQB1ndQSgikiFgVpWCo8C7 _E&hl=en&ei=5mK-SYfdFJmQsQP5uPBD&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA5 97,M1 > > >North > > and Central Bavarian. > > > > *Egerland Bohemian > > German*< > > > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gbhs/newsletter/Heimatbrief_March_2000.pdf > > >(Egerlaenderisch) > > is spoken in Bischofteinitz, Mies, Tachau and Taus > > Counties in the Czech Republic in Western Bohemia and in and around New > > Ulm, Minnesota, where there are still speakers ranging from 52-98 years > > old. In the Czech Republic, each village had a separate dialect, but all > > dialects are intelligible. This appears to be a separate > > language< > > > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN/2006-05/1147996153 > > >from > > Oberpfalz Northern Bavarian. > > > > This seems to be the same language as * Sechs?mterland * spoken across > the > > border. The Sechs?mterland dialect is spoken in the area around Selb, > > Wunsiedel, Hohenberg and Thierstein in the far northeast of Bavaria near > > the border with Czechoslovakia and Lower Saxony. > > > > Dialectal diversity is very high in this area, and every village has its > > own dialect. > > > > *Lauterbach* is a divergent dialect spoken east of Tirschenreuth on the > > Czech border. *Tiss* is a > > divergent< > > > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gbhs/newsletter/Heimatbrief_March_2003.pdf > > >subdialect > > of Egerland. > > *Sangerberg* is a divergent Egerlaenderisch dialect spoken in Prameny, > > Czechoslovakia. *Cheb (note from Aida: I never heard of a dialect > named > > "Cheb", as "Cheb" is the Czech translation for the city of Eger!) * is > > spoken in the large German city of the same name. *Tachauer* is a dialect > > that formed the > > basis<http://www.members.shaw.ca/brianmerz/Genealogy/folklore.htm>for > > the > > * Machliniec* dialect spoken formerly spoken by the Carpathian Germans in > > their language island in the Machliniec area of the Ukraine. They left > > during WW2. > > > > *German Central Bavarian* is a group of Bavarian lects that are spoken in > > Germany. This group includes Lower Bavarian, Upper Bavarian and *Lechrain > > Bavarian* (Lechrainisch). Lechrain Bavarian is spoken in Western Bavaria > > and is transitional to Swabian. Map of the Lechrain > > region<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Lechrain.svg>. > > Lechrain is very > > different< > > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/BAVARIAN-ANCESTORS/2001-10/100 3966871 > > >from > > the rest of Bavarian, but intelligibility data is lacking. > > > > Lower Bavarian includes the Bohemian Forest language and many dialects. > > > > Upper Bavarian includes the Starnberg, Highland and Meisbach languages > and > > many dialects. > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > *hwhitemc* > > "Live simply; Care deeply; Love generously;" and most importantly, "Speak > kindly." ...by Sam @ MTPR > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:54:31 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: polloe@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Distinction of Czech versus German surnames To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <11718795.1326916472465.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Aida, and All, Ya seem to raise an interesting issue below. If the Surname sometimes changed from Czech to German or German to Czech depending on the area a family lived in or moved to, then IF we have a "Brickwall", maybe it would be good to look for the Surname as translated into the other language. Would the above be a good idea? How about with given names? Were they likely to change between languages as well? I'm tracing a Karola. His marriage record in Trnava (now Slovakia) (was Hungary) not far from the Czech border, lists his place of birth as Brno. I have not found his Birth record from Brno CZ as yet. Is it likely I will find variations of the Given Name as well? Thanks in advance, Elaine -----Original Message----- >From: Aida Kraus <birchbaylady@gmail.com> >Sent: Jan 16, 2012 7:20 PM >To: GBHS <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Distinction of Czech versus German female surnames > >Under the Austrian Hungarian Empire most church records were written in the >language of its ethnic population after the 19th century. Throughout the >Austrian Hungarian Empire there were more than 9 languages spoken (German, >Hungarian, Slovakian, Czech, Polish, Ukrainian, Croatian, Serbian and >Romanian and others). Actually, the Austrian Hungarian Empire was a >fore-runner of what we have today in Europe - a "United Europe". Austria >Hungary was very international and colorful, but with a dominant German or >Hungarian administration for their regions. Regional administration used >the language of their population. During the Empire years there were > either predominantly German or Czech Cities and villages and many other >ethnic population centers. > When the Latin language of Catholic church registers was replaced by >the language of the region, it is there that you will be able to tell the >ethnicity of your ancestry by looking at the language used in these church >records. Pay attention to your find and see if they were written either in >Czech or German and you will know your families ethnicity. Surnames do >hardly pinpoint ethnicity, because intermarriage-names show as many to be >translated to German as they were translated to Czech. For instance the >German name Schmied (a smith) might be translated to the Czech >equivalent: Kov?? >when they moved into a predominantly Czech region; or the Czech family by >the name by Kovar might have acquired the German name of Schmied by moving >to a predominantly German region.; so you really cannot tell just by >surnames what ethnicity they might have had. Here is an example: You can >be sure that the record shows in the Czech language if the female ending > "ova" is at the end of the surname. Here is an example: >The family surname "Schmied" would be listed as "Schmiedova or Smidova" >found in a Czech register for a female. German records would never show >the ending "ova" for a female, and the text would be German and the female >name listed as Schmied or even Smid without the "ova" ending. However, in >older records (end of 1700 and beginning of 1800) you might find the ending >"in" attached to a German surname for a German female, hence, "Schmiedin." > So remember: "ova" = Czech, no ending or "in" ending = German. This is >your key to ethnic distinction. > Aida > > >On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:17 PM, <nechkash@comcast.net> wrote: > >> >> >> I am quite sure of my father - my grandmother (the Wintra, Winter, >> Winters, eta) family came from Vesele, Bohemia, Czech and several >> surrounding villages in 1778. But my father - my grandfather (the Neckar >> lineage ), I am not sure. All that I know is John Neckar (my gr-gr-father) >> came through New York S tate to Wisconsin around 1854. I sometimes wonder >> if the Neckar were actually of German decent, and not Slavic. >> >> >> >> Dan Nechkash >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> From: "Aida Kraus" <birchbaylady@gmail.com> >> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 4:49:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] 1929/30 Czech Census! >> >> Czech and German are two entirely different languages. Czech's base roots >> are Slavic and similar to Polish and Russian. German has its base in >> Germanic language roots, like Austrian, Swiss, and is related to all >> Scandinavian languages and German dialects. If your ancestral family >> residing in Bohemia spoke both languages, they were bilingual. You spoke >> either German or Czech in Bohemia. The Czechs referred to their home >> language as "Bohemian" and the Germans from Bohemia referred to their home >> dialect "Bohemian" when they were away from home and lived in America. So >> I hope that this will make you >> aware that your family spoke two entirely different language, and now you >> have to find written records in either language to identify their >> ethnicity. >> Aida >> >> ----------------------------------------------- >> >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:34 PM, <nechkash@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > Hello Aida, >> > >> > >> > >> > My father was born as a second-generation US citizen in Wisconsin, but >> > didn't speak English until he went to grade school (about 1931). The >> > >> > family and all the local's spoken only the native tongue (Bohemian). He >> > and my Aunt Mary always claimed they also understand German because >> > >> > it was similar enough to the Bohemian language? Is this the case? >> > Thanks, >> > >> > >> > >> > Daniel Nechkash >> > >> >> >German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15 ********************************************** ------------------------------ To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 16 **********************************************

Regarding the post below from ppk1501@ymail.com, I would like to search the Plzen archives for the Staniek surname. My ancestors came to western PA in 1853, and have found them listed on the Castle Garden site as leaving Bremen. They considered themselves German, although the Staniek surname appears to be Slavik. Family records have them living in Graslitz now Kraslice. Any help will be most appreciated. Thank you. Marybeth C. acmbjc@aol.com =========================================================== Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:27:35 -0800 (PST) From: Patricia Moos <ppk1502@ymail.com> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Req: German-Bohemian boundaries Yes, thank you for the reply.? I already know where it is and how to find it.? I have corresponded with people there.? I have found and copied BMD records online at the Plzen Archive site. ? ? I simply wanted to know whether or not if this Kocin in question is considered to lie within the unclear and ephemeral boundaries which you folks on this list refer to as German-Bohemian, and/or Sudetenland.? All of that is unclear to me. ? THE REASON I ASK IS THIS: ? "My" Kocin in question seems to lie A LITTLE SOUTH of the SOUTHERN LIMIT of the Sudetenland or German-Bohemian boundary on the map(s) you, Aida, posted. ? Therefore, my grandparents and great grandparents should have spoken CZECH/Bohemian as a FIRST LANGUAGE. ? Yet it seems that they spoke German as a first language instead, and this is the language they spoke at home (other than English). They DID SPEAK CZECH, but not as much. ? They said things such as, "Was ist hier denn los? Or, " Was ist los mit dich?" ?[Should have said "...mit dir" -- dative case] They said,?"Es erfreut mir ihnen?kennenzulernen." Or simply "Erfreut mir." "Gute nacht.? Schl?ft wohl." "Guten Morgen.? Hast du viel Hunger f?r den Speck und Eier? "Was zum Teufel machst du da?!" "Bis du ganz verrucht?" "Ach!? Da? ist Schnapsidee!" ? They cooked simple dishes such as Schenkenflecken and Judlicki or J?dlichi (spelling?).?? No one seems to heard of the latter.? From the root, it appears?that it might?be of Jewish origin. ? But they also said, "Jak se mas?" "Ja bily parodni baba." ? My great grandfather was very tall, and he would jokingly call a short fellow a "spunt," or "Spund," the former of which is Czech for "dwarf" or "elf"?and the latter German for "bung" or "plug" in a beer barrel.? Both are pronounced virtually the same and both could metaphorically refer to a short guy.? For example: ?"Siehst du da am jener kleiner?Spund aus?"? Er ist mein Boss."? "Videt ze tam spunt?? On je muy sef. I do not recall his using the word "zakrslika" for runt. ? Why should they be German speakers, being from Kocin, Kralovice, Plzen? ? P. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ? ? ?