Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he and his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. Thanks, Donna

Marg and Frank, I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, very, very, very, etc. small number of people who do that. ________ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: Marg McEuen To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and Aida. I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around them. None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the USA by 1887. I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and your personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg McEuen --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family activities, and like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the source. When it crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes more difficult. I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations prior. I also know there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and witnessed his will. But what happened to them from 1870 on? A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village near Karlsbad and took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone except for flowers, grasses and a well spot. In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an see it for myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and the other for his grave marker. Frank Heidl Slocum Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > / > Not many people are interested in serious historical and genealogical > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they don't get > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just want to punch a > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back to Adam and > Eve. > > ______ > > Laurence > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, because ancestors > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion lists, court > documents, witness reports, property records are all part of this and > present valuable information material for genealogical research. If > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your roots? The > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how long it takes. > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply could not find a > link to a family member. The person she was looking for "did not > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. In the end she > found out why he did not exist in any records of her family. ...... > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > So, I guess, we have to get our head around these "unpleasant > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the second world > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a one sided > deal, my friends! > It hits home, when a transgression highly censured is returned by > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes us look > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know that we > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. Genocide is > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we will find > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY > Aida > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > wrote: > > / > > Hello Aida, > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, but a small > number of people read the literature. Not many people are > interested in the past. > > _______ > > Laurence > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the Holocaust > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials in a > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what came > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any press and > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is just now > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of history. > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more so. > Aida > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > > / > > > Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the > places > that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi > military and they themselves committed attrocities? Any memoirs > or > letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? > > _____ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the > cruelty > > of > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called > "Whitebook" > > and > > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the > > German > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should > have > > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the > > homeless > > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the > link > > listed > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost > their > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their > deaths > > have > > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in > some > > cases > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, > Estonia, > > Latvia, > > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, > Czechoslovakia > > and > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass > > executions, > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years > after > > the > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to > time > > even > > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of > > publicity, > > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather > > forget. > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the > Charter.... > > just > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > > Aida > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > > > >> Aida, > >> > >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. > What > >> is > >> your opinion of this. > >> > >> > >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would > like to > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >> > >> Cathy > >> > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >> without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Donna, the advice I can give you is to search for Halenkov in the Brno archives. Go to the acta publica link and click on Brno. Link can be found here: *Moravian Land Archive in Brno;* www.*actapublica*.eu Subsection: *Moravian* Land Archive in Brno, they may have combined it with the State Regional Archive in Plzeň by now. Halenkov is just inside the Moravian border abutting Slovakia and is actually not within the research parameter of our German Bohemian Group. You need better expertise for that particular area than we have to offer. But we can put you on your way. The area is almost 100% Czech where your ancestors came from. Malinak is a Czech name, but that does not mean that he was Czech, because you list his first name the German way, "Johannes", not "Jan" which is the Czech way. You will find his ethnicity in the Brno records by seeing if the records are written in Czech or in German. You may get better results if you participate at the rootsweb Moravian list by posting the same letter you wrote to the German Bohemian list. If that is not successful, you may contact the Austrian Genealogical group at this website: "Ing. Felix Gundacker" <IHFF@netway.at> Good luck, Aida -------------------------------------- On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 8:55 AM, <dcuillard@aol.com> wrote: > > > Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the > Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. > Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he and > his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. > Thanks, > Donna > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Aida, Reading your husband's obit brought back fond memories of skiing at Heavenly Valley (Lake Tahoe). In my own family research, there is a possibility that my direct paternal ancestors from Ireland belonged to the class of Irish Travelers often incorrectly confused with Romani Gypsies. These are the descendants of ancient itinerant scholars, poets, musicians and craftsmen, with additional families displaced in later years from their lands by clan fighting and the English invasion, etc., thus becoming vagrants living in ornately decorated wagons reminiscent of their ancestors ancient migrations. Their are known for very high moral standards. Similarly, the Hussites forced to migrate from their homes in the 15th century traveling throughout Europe, which gave rise to the name Bohemian for present day Romani people such as those in Spain, many of whose own ancestors lived in Bohemia and Moravia in earlier historical times and to this day. Perhaps God chooses certain souls to bear this particular cross, and there are also many joys that come with this freedom from not being in a settled community for a time. -- Michael O'Hearn

Aida, Reading your husband's obit brought back fond memories of skiing at Heavenly Valley (Lake Tahoe). In my own family research, there is a possibility that my direct paternal ancestors from Ireland belonged to the class of Irish Travelers often incorrectly confused with Romani Gypsies. These are the descendants of ancient itinerant scholars, poets, musicians and craftsmen, with additional families displaced in later years from their lands by clan fighting and the English invasion, etc., thus becoming vagrants living in ornately decorated wagons reminiscent of their ancestors ancient migrations. Their are known for very high moral standards. Similarly, the Hussites forced to migrate from their homes in the 15th century traveling throughout Europe, which gave rise to the name Bohemian for present day Romani people such as those in Spain, many of whose own ancestors lived in Bohemia and Moravia in earlier historical times and to this day. Perhaps God chooses certain souls to bear this particular cross, and there are also many joys that come with this freedom from not being in a settled community for a time. -- Michael O'Hearn

Aida, Reading your husband's obit brought back fond memories of skiing at Heavenly Valley (Lake Tahoe). In my own family research, there is a possibility that my direct paternal ancestors from Ireland belonged to the class of Irish Travelers often incorrectly confused with Romani Gypsies. These are the descendants of ancient itinerant scholars, poets, musicians and craftsmen, with additional families displaced in later years from their lands by clan fighting and the English invasion, etc., thus becoming vagrants living in ornately decorated wagons reminiscent of their ancestors ancient migrations. Their are known for very high moral standards. Similarly, the Hussites forced to migrate from their homes in the 15th century traveling throughout Europe, which gave rise to the name Bohemian for present day Romani people such as those in Spain, many of whose own ancestors lived in Bohemia and Moravia in earlier historical times and to this day. Perhaps God chooses certain souls to bear this particular cross, and there are also many joys that come with this freedom from not being in a settled community for a time. -- Michael O'Hearn

Aida, Reading your husband's obit brought back fond memories of skiing at Heavenly Valley (Lake Tahoe). In my own family research, there is a possibility that my direct paternal ancestors from Ireland belonged to the class of Irish Travelers often incorrectly confused with Romani Gypsies. These are the descendants of ancient itinerant scholars, poets, musicians and craftsmen, with additional families displaced in later years from their lands by clan fighting and the English invasion, etc., thus becoming vagrants living in ornately decorated wagons reminiscent of their ancestors ancient migrations. Their are known for very high moral standards. Similarly, the Hussites forced to migrate from their homes in the 15th century traveling throughout Europe, which gave rise to the name Bohemian for present day Romani people such as those in Spain, many of whose own ancestors lived in Bohemia and Moravia in earlier historical times and to this day. Perhaps God chooses certain souls to bear this particular cross, and there are also many joys that come with this freedom from not being in a settled community for a time. -- Michael O'Hearn

lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family activities, and like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the source. When it crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes more difficult. I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations prior. I also know there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and witnessed his will. But what happened to them from 1870 on? A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village near Karlsbad and took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone except for flowers, grasses and a well spot. In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an see it for myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and the other for his grave marker. Frank Heidl Slocum Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > / > Not many people are interested in serious historical and genealogical > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they don't get > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just want to punch a > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back to Adam and > Eve. > > ______ > > Laurence > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, because ancestors > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion lists, court > documents, witness reports, property records are all part of this and > present valuable information material for genealogical research. If > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your roots? The > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how long it takes. > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply could not find a > link to a family member. The person she was looking for "did not > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. In the end she > found out why he did not exist in any records of her family. ...... > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > So, I guess, we have to get our head around these "unpleasant > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the second world > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a one sided > deal, my friends! > It hits home, when a transgression highly censured is returned by > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes us look > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know that we > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. Genocide is > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we will find > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY > Aida > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > wrote: > > / > > Hello Aida, > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, but a small > number of people read the literature. Not many people are > interested in the past. > > _______ > > Laurence > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the Holocaust > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials in a > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what came > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any press and > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is just now > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of history. > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more so. > Aida > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > > / > > > Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the > places > that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi > military and they themselves committed attrocities? Any memoirs > or > letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? > > _____ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the > cruelty > > of > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called > "Whitebook" > > and > > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the > > German > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should > have > > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the > > homeless > > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the > link > > listed > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost > their > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their > deaths > > have > > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in > some > > cases > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, > Estonia, > > Latvia, > > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, > Czechoslovakia > > and > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass > > executions, > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years > after > > the > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to > time > > even > > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of > > publicity, > > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather > > forget. > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the > Charter.... > > just > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > > Aida > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > > > >> Aida, > >> > >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. > What > >> is > >> your opinion of this. > >> > >> > >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would > like to > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >> > >> Cathy > >> > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > >> without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

/ Not many people are interested in serious historical and genealogical research. Many people have a passing interest, but they don't get close to scholarly or detailed information. They just want to punch a name in a computer database and get their genealogy back to Adam and Eve. ______ Laurence ----- Original Message ----- From: Aida Kraus To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, because ancestors can only be found in historical records. Expulsion lists, court documents, witness reports, property records are all part of this and present valuable information material for genealogical research. If you do not know history, how can you possibly find your roots? The truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how long it takes. I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply could not find a link to a family member. The person she was looking for "did not exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. In the end she found out why he did not exist in any records of her family. ...... because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. So, I guess, we have to get our head around these "unpleasant surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the second world war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a one sided deal, my friends! It hits home, when a transgression highly censured is returned by just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes us look at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know that we could be our best. This feeling is called shame. Genocide is shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we will find it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY Aida On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: / Hello Aida, Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, but a small number of people read the literature. Not many people are interested in the past. _______ Laurence ----- Original Message ----- From: Aida Kraus To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the Holocaust papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials in a neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what came "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any press and was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is just now surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of history. Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more so. Aida On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: / Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the places that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi military and they themselves committed attrocities? Any memoirs or letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? _____ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the cruelty > of > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called "Whitebook" > and > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the > German > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should have > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the > homeless > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the link > listed > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost their > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their deaths > have > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in some > cases > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, > Latvia, > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia > and > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass > executions, > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years after > the > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to time > even > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of > publicity, > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather > forget. > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the Charter.... > just > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > Aida > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >> Aida, >> >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. What >> is >> your opinion of this. >> >> >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >> >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would like to >> know what's what. Thanks. >> >> Cathy >> >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

/ Hello Aida, Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, but a small number of people read the literature. Not many people are interested in the past. _______ Laurence ----- Original Message ----- From: Aida Kraus To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the Holocaust papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials in a neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what came "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any press and was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is just now surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of history. Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more so. Aida On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: / Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the places that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi military and they themselves committed attrocities? Any memoirs or letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? _____ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the cruelty > of > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called "Whitebook" > and > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the > German > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should have > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the > homeless > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the link > listed > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost their > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their deaths > have > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in some > cases > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, > Latvia, > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia > and > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass > executions, > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years after > the > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to time > even > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of > publicity, > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather > forget. > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the Charter.... > just > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > Aida > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >> Aida, >> >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. What >> is >> your opinion of this. >> >> >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >> >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would like to >> know what's what. Thanks. >> >> Cathy >> >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Aida, Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, but a small number of people read the literature. Not many un-related people are interested in the past. _______ Laurence ----- Original Message ----- From: Aida Kraus To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the Holocaust papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials in a neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what came "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any press and was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is just now surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of history. Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more so. Aida On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: / Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the places that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi military and they themselves committed attrocities? Any memoirs or letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? _____ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the cruelty > of > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called "Whitebook" > and > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the > German > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should have > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the > homeless > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the link > listed > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost their > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their deaths > have > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in some > cases > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, > Latvia, > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia > and > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass > executions, > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years after > the > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to time > even > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of > publicity, > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather > forget. > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the Charter.... > just > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > Aida > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >> Aida, >> >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. What >> is >> your opinion of this. >> >> >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >> >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would like to >> know what's what. Thanks. >> >> Cathy >> >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and Aida.  I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and sent back pictures.  I am unable to travel so far because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated.  I, too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around them. None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed.  My paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886.  I would very much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, as her parents, siblings and  her other uncles also came to the USA by 1887. I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and your personal recollections, Aida.  That helps me fill in some of the history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left.  Thank you so much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps.  Marg McEuen --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family activities, and like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the source. When it crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes more difficult. I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations prior. I also know there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and witnessed his will. But what happened to them from 1870 on? A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village near Karlsbad and took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone except for flowers, grasses and a well spot. In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an see it for myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and the other for his grave marker. Frank Heidl Slocum Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > / >    Not many people are interested in serious historical and genealogical > research.  Many people have a passing interest, but they don't get > close to scholarly or detailed information.  They just want to punch a > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back to Adam and > Eve. > > ______ > > Laurence > > >   ----- Original Message ----- >   From: Aida Kraus >   To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >   Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM >   Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > >   As far as  genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, because ancestors > can only be found in historical records.  Expulsion lists, court > documents, witness reports, property records are all part of this and > present valuable information material for genealogical research.   If > you do not know  history, how can you possibly find your roots? The > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how long it takes. > I will give you an example.  I had a friend who simply could not find a > link to a family member.  The person she was looking for "did not > exist".  Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. In the end she > found out why he did not exist in any records of her family.  ...... > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. >        So, I guess,  we have to get our head around these "unpleasant > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the second world > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a one sided > deal, my friends! >         It hits home, when a transgression highly censured is returned by > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes us look > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know that we > could be our best.  This feeling is called shame.  Genocide is > shame on all levels of humanity.  It is a pity that we will find > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY >   Aida > > >   On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > wrote: > >     / > >     Hello Aida, > >         Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, but a small > number of people read the literature. Not many people are > interested in the past. > >     _______ > >     Laurence > > > >       ----- Original Message ----- >       From: Aida Kraus > >       To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >       Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM >       Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > >       Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the Holocaust > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials in a > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what came > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any press and > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years.  It is just now > surfacing, as it should,  because this is also a part of history. > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if  not more so. >       Aida > > >       On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > >         / > > >              Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the > places >         that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi >         military and they themselves committed attrocities?  Any memoirs > or >         letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? > >         _____ > >         Lavrentiy > > > >         ----- Original Message ----- >         From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> >         To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >         Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM >         Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > >         > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the > cruelty >         > of >         > expulsion from their homeland.  It is a document called > "Whitebook" >         > and >         > contains legal witness records  kept in the files at Bonn by the >         > German >         > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should > have >         > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the >         > homeless >         > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the > link >         > listed >         > below.  There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost > their >         > homeland  after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their > deaths >         > have >         > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in > some >         > cases >         > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, > Estonia, >         > Latvia, >         > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, > Czechoslovakia >         > and >         > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass >         > executions, >         > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years > after >         > the >         > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to > time >         > even >         > now at construction excavations but  creates just a minimum of >         > publicity, >         > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather >         > forget. >         >  Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the > Charter.... >         > just >         > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: >         > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 >         > Aida >         > >         > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: >         > >         >> Aida, >         >> >         >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. > What >         >> is >         >> your opinion of this. >         >> >         >> >         >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >         >> >         >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would > like to >         >> know what's what. Thanks. >         >> >         >> Cathy >         >> >         >> >         >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >         >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >         >> ------------------------------- >         >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >         >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' >         >> without >         >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >         >> >         > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >         > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >         > ------------------------------- >         > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >         > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >         > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >         German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >         ------------------------------- >         To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >     German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >     ------------------------------- >     To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

/ Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the places that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi military and they themselves committed attrocities? Any memoirs or letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? _____ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the cruelty > of > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called "Whitebook" > and > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the > German > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should have > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the > homeless > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the link > listed > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost their > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their deaths > have > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in some > cases > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, > Latvia, > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia > and > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass > executions, > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years after > the > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to time > even > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of > publicity, > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather > forget. > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the Charter.... > just > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > Aida > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >> Aida, >> >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. What >> is >> your opinion of this. >> >> >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >> >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would like to >> know what's what. Thanks. >> >> Cathy >> >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If you scroll down on this site, you come to some demographics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_estimates_of_the_flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans

As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, because ancestors can only be found in historical records. Expulsion lists, court documents, witness reports, property records are all part of this and present valuable information material for genealogical research. If you do not know history, how can you possibly find your roots? The truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how long it takes. I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply could not find a link to a family member. The person she was looking for "did not exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. In the end she found out why he did not exist in any records of her family. ...... because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. So, I guess, we have to get our head around these "unpleasant surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the second world war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a one sided deal, my friends! It hits home, when a transgression highly censured is returned by just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes us look at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know that we could be our best. This feeling is called shame. Genocide is shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we will find it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY Aida On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net>wrote: > / > > Hello Aida, > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, but a small number > of people read the literature. Not many people are interested in the past. > > _______ > > Laurence > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the Holocaust papers > and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials in a neverending > supply of stories for the media....... but what came "afterwards" that is > something that did not get into any press and was put under lock and key at > Bonn for 50 years. It is just now surfacing, as it should, because this > is also a part of history. Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if > not more so. > Aida > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > wrote: > > / > > > Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the places > that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi > military and they themselves committed attrocities? Any memoirs or > letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? > > _____ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the cruelty > > of > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called "Whitebook" > > and > > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the > > German > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should have > > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the > > homeless > > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the link > > listed > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost their > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their deaths > > have > > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in some > > cases > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, > > Latvia, > > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, > Czechoslovakia > > and > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass > > executions, > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years after > > the > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to time > > even > > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of > > publicity, > > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather > > forget. > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the Charter.... > > just > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > > Aida > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > > > >> Aida, > >> > >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. What > >> is > >> your opinion of this. > >> > >> > >> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would like > to > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >> > >> Cathy > >> > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Lavrentiy, the transgressions of Nazis has been "paid for" by the German Government over the last 50 years to every person who has applied at their government offices for their losses. In fact, still today - 67 years after the war, the German government is sending monthly payments to people all over the world to recompense them, it comes from tax money paid by the third generation of Germans who were not yet born at the time of Nazi atrocities. In other words, while the Benes decrees are upheld and the Czech government is neither taking responsibility for the actions for what happened to the 3,2 Million Germans expelled from their homeland leaving all assets behind, the German government is still paying billions of Euros in war compensations to nations and individuals. I do not think that in the history of man such payments were made by any other nation. Of course, the young Germans, who were not even born at that time these atrocities were committed, they are being punished in finding their paychecks highly taxed by the German government in order to pay for these compensation. In other words, quite rightly, they are feeling punished for something they did not cause. After all, it is often a group of leaders serving their own interests to the detriment of the populace. And the Nazis were just such a group, like the Bolsheviks in Russia and many other such self serving leaderships in other countries as well. You know that! You also know very well that my own family was hurt on both sides of the spectrum: during the Hitler regime for anti-fascism and then again AFTER the war for just being Germans. The Czech government is just recently accepting applications for losses and each individual pursuing this will find this a very expensive undertaking, so it is the value of the property lost to make it either economically pursue-able or not. Most of the properties are requiring large amounts of investments. Aida On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net>wrote: > / > > > Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the places > that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi > military and they themselves committed attrocities? Any memoirs or > letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? > > _____ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the cruelty > > of > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called "Whitebook" > > and > > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the > > German > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should have > > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the > > homeless > > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the link > > listed > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost their > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their deaths > > have > > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in some > > cases > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, > > Latvia, > > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia > > and > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass > > executions, > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years after > > the > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to time > > even > > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of > > publicity, > > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather > > forget. > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the Charter.... > > just > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > > Aida > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > > > >> Aida, > >> > >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. What > >> is > >> your opinion of this. > >> > >> > >> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would like to > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >> > >> Cathy > >> > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the Holocaust papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials in a neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what came "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any press and was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is just now surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of history. Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more so. Aida On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net>wrote: > / > > > Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the places > that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi > military and they themselves committed attrocities? Any memoirs or > letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? > > _____ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the cruelty > > of > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called "Whitebook" > > and > > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the > > German > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should have > > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the > > homeless > > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the link > > listed > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost their > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their deaths > > have > > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in some > > cases > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, > > Latvia, > > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia > > and > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass > > executions, > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years after > > the > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to time > > even > > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of > > publicity, > > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather > > forget. > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the Charter.... > > just > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > > Aida > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > > > >> Aida, > >> > >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. What > >> is > >> your opinion of this. > >> > >> > >> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would like to > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >> > >> Cathy > >> > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Has anyone heard of Karen Hobbs if they or her family was affected by the Fire at Colorado Springs? I have just seen these pictures and am wondering, because we have heard so little form Karen lately. Aida http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2012/06/27/colorado-wildfires-waldo-canyon-fire-colorado-springs/5732/

Aida, Thanks very much. I don't want to be on the wrong track. Cathy On 7/7/2012 2:52 PM, Aida Kraus wrote: > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the cruelty of > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called "Whitebook" and > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the German > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should have > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the homeless > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the link listed > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost their > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their deaths have > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in some cases > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass executions, > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years after the > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to time even > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of publicity, > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather forget. > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the Charter.... just > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > Aida > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >> Aida, >> >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. What is >> your opinion of this. >> >> >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >> >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would like to >> know what's what. Thanks. >> >> Cathy >> >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Aida, I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. What is your opinion of this. http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would like to know what's what. Thanks. Cathy