Hello Aida, The "chat" does contain valuable information from all perspectives and many references. People should not learn about the expulsions from only the German expulsion organizations. ________ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: Aida Kraus To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Expulsion discussions To me this seems like a lot of "chat" but very little historical evidence, I think the You tube presentations are more factual. Aida On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: / Want to contribute?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II ______ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:00 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Expulsion discussions > Example expulsion discussions: > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AExpulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II/Archive_10 > > > > _______ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue > 109 > > >> Hi Brandt, >> >> There are many books, papers, etc. on the subject. It is critical >> to read information from all perspectives: expellee and expellee >> organizations, Czech point-of-view, etc. >> >> Anybody have recommendations about references which have a >> "neutral" bias? >> >> ________ >> >> Lavrentiy >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandt Gibson" <ironhide781@hotmail.com> >> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue >> 109 >> >> >>> >>> I only learned of the expulsion recently through this mailing list. >>> Are there any books on the expulsion? My ancestors lived in the >>> Rosshaupt/Strobl/Zirk area, so anything about that area would be of >>> interest to me, before or after the expulsion. Thanks, Brandt >>> > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com >>>> Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 >>>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:49:19 -0600 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) >>>> 2. Malinak from Halenkov (dcuillard@aol.com) >>>> 3. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (fslocum@accelplus.net) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:49:46 -0400 >>>> From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >>>> Message-ID: <820E72FB59024BADB2A2712499002536@user45c476a8b6> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>> >>>> Marg and Frank, >>>> >>>> I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, >>>> very, >>>> very, very, etc. small number of people who do that. >>>> >>>> ________ >>>> >>>> Lavrentiy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Marg McEuen >>>> To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> >>>> >>>> I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and >>>> Aida. I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal >>>> Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near >>>> Lestkov) and sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far >>>> because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, >>>> too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. >>>> for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on >>>> around them. >>>> >>>> None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I >>>> do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out >>>> what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My >>>> paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was >>>> just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her >>>> about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very >>>> much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, >>>> as >>>> her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the USA by >>>> 1887. >>>> >>>> I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and >>>> your personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of >>>> the >>>> history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so >>>> much >>>> for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg >>>> McEuen >>>> >>>> --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net >>>> <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family >>>> activities, and >>>> like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the >>>> source. When it >>>> crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes >>>> more difficult. >>>> >>>> I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations >>>> prior. I also know >>>> there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and >>>> witnessed his will. >>>> But what happened to them from 1870 on? >>>> >>>> A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village >>>> near >>>> Karlsbad and >>>> took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone >>>> except for flowers, >>>> grasses and a well spot. >>>> >>>> In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there >>>> an >>>> see it for >>>> myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and >>>> the >>>> other for his >>>> grave marker. >>>> >>>> Frank Heidl Slocum >>>> Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl >>>> >>>> > / >>>> > Not many people are interested in serious historical >>>> and genealogical >>>> > research. Many people have a passing interest, but >>>> they >>>> don't get >>>> > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just >>>> want to punch a >>>> > name in a computer database and get their genealogy >>>> back >>>> to Adam and >>>> > Eve. >>>> > >>>> > ______ >>>> > >>>> > Laurence >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Aida Kraus >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> expulsion >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, >>>> because ancestors >>>> > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion >>>> lists, court >>>> > documents, witness reports, property records are all >>>> part >>>> of this and >>>> > present valuable information material for genealogical >>>> research. If >>>> > you do not know history, how can you possibly find >>>> your >>>> roots? The >>>> > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter >>>> how >>>> long it takes. >>>> > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply >>>> could not find a >>>> > link to a family member. The person she was looking >>>> for >>>> "did not >>>> > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was >>>> tenacious. >>>> In the end she >>>> > found out why he did not exist in any records of her >>>> family. ...... >>>> > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. >>>> > So, I guess, we have to get our head around >>>> these >>>> "unpleasant >>>> > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the >>>> second world >>>> > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be >>>> a >>>> one sided >>>> > deal, my friends! >>>> > It hits home, when a transgression highly >>>> censured is returned by >>>> > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It >>>> makes >>>> us look >>>> > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know >>>> that we >>>> > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. >>>> Genocide is >>>> > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we >>>> will find >>>> > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR >>>> HISTORY >>>> > Aida >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>>> <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > / >>>> > >>>> > Hello Aida, >>>> > >>>> > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" >>>> existed, but a small >>>> > number of people read the literature. Not many people >>>> are >>>> > interested in the past. >>>> > >>>> > _______ >>>> > >>>> > Laurence >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Aida Kraus >>>> > >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> expulsion >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published >>>> in >>>> the Holocaust >>>> > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg >>>> trials in a >>>> > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but >>>> what came >>>> > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into >>>> any >>>> press and >>>> > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is >>>> just now >>>> > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part >>>> of >>>> history. >>>> > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not >>>> more so. >>>> > Aida >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > / >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Do data exist for the number of Germans >>>> who >>>> resided in the >>>> > places >>>> > that you described who either joined or were >>>> conscripted in Nazi >>>> > military and they themselves committed >>>> attrocities? Any memoirs >>>> > or >>>> > letters of admission or regret on what they or >>>> Germany did? >>>> > >>>> > _____ >>>> > >>>> > Lavrentiy >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> >>>> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >>>> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> expulsion >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > This is a witness report of people who have >>>> gone through the >>>> > cruelty >>>> > > of >>>> > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a >>>> document called >>>> > "Whitebook" >>>> > > and >>>> > > contains legal witness records kept in the >>>> files at Bonn by the >>>> > > German >>>> > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. >>>> However, they should >>>> > have >>>> > > published it as part of truthful reporting of >>>> history after the >>>> > > homeless >>>> > > had declared their Charter. You will find >>>> that >>>> charter on the >>>> > link >>>> > > listed >>>> > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us >>>> Germans who have lost >>>> > their >>>> > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled >>>> persons and their >>>> > deaths >>>> > > have >>>> > > never been fully established. They were >>>> living >>>> for centuries (in >>>> > some >>>> > > cases >>>> > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, >>>> Lithuania, >>>> > Estonia, >>>> > > Latvia, >>>> > > Ukraine, the different states of the former >>>> Yugoslavia, >>>> > Czechoslovakia >>>> > > and >>>> > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass >>>> transports, mass >>>> > > executions, >>>> > > rapes and sadistic tortures between >>>> 1945-1947, >>>> up to two years >>>> > after >>>> > > the >>>> > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are >>>> found from time to >>>> > time >>>> > > even >>>> > > now at construction excavations but creates >>>> just a minimum of >>>> > > publicity, >>>> > > because it was so horrendous that even the >>>> victims would rather >>>> > > forget. >>>> > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the >>>> date of the >>>> > Charter.... >>>> > > just >>>> > > 5 years after the war when wound of our >>>> losses >>>> were still fresh: >>>> > > >>>> http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 >>>> > > Aida >>>> > > >>>> > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, >>>> <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > >> Aida, >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I found this while researching family >>>> members >>>> from Freiwaldau. >>>> > What >>>> > >> is >>>> > >> your opinion of this. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding >>>> propaganda and would >>>> > like to >>>> > >> know what's what. Thanks. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Cathy >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > >> ------------------------------- >>>> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> email to >>>> > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with >>>> the >>>> word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > >> without >>>> > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of >>>> the >>>> message >>>> > >> >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> email to >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the >>>> word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the >>>> body >>>> of the message >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> email to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> message >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >>>> to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> message >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' without >>>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:55:55 -0400 (EDT) >>>> From: dcuillard@aol.com >>>> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov >>>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Message-ID: <8CF2C027534F63C-8B4-EB1@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the >>>> Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. >>>> Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he >>>> and his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Donna >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 3 >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) >>>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <49414.97.97.3.169.1341852546.squirrel@secure.accelplus.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 >>>> >>>> Lavrentiy, I consider this curious effort the worlds largest jigsaw >>>> puzzle. It is in my basic curiosity make up. Sometimes I find a >>>> piece and >>>> know it fits someplace but must find the adjoining piece first. >>>> This >>>> puzzle is a 360 degree puzzle. >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> >>>> > Marg and Frank, >>>> > >>>> > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, >>>> > very, very, >>>> > very, etc. small number of people who do that. >>>> > >>>> > ________ >>>> > >>>> > Lavrentiy >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Marg McEuen >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank >>>> > and >>>> > Aida. >>>> > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, >>>> > Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and >>>> > sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of >>>> > health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try >>>> > to >>>> > find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as >>>> > many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around >>>> > them. >>>> > >>>> > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but >>>> > I >>>> > do try >>>> > to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what >>>> > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My >>>> > paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was >>>> > just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her >>>> > about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would >>>> > very >>>> > much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one >>>> > aunt, >>>> > as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the >>>> > USA by 1887. >>>> > >>>> > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and >>>> > your >>>> > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the >>>> > history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so >>>> > much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. >>>> > Marg >>>> > McEuen >>>> > >>>> > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net >>>> > <fslocum@accelplus.net> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >>>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family >>>> > activities, and >>>> > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the >>>> > source. >>>> > When it >>>> > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all >>>> > becomes >>>> > more >>>> > difficult. >>>> > >>>> > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations >>>> > prior. I >>>> > also know >>>> > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and >>>> > witnessed >>>> > his will. >>>> > But what happened to them from 1870 on? >>>> > >>>> > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village >>>> > near >>>> > Karlsbad and >>>> > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone >>>> > except >>>> > for flowers, >>>> > grasses and a well spot. >>>> > >>>> > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there >>>> > an see >>>> > it for >>>> > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and >>>> > the >>>> > other for his >>>> > grave marker. >>>> > >>>> > Frank Heidl Slocum >>>> > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl >>>> > >>>> > > / >>>> > > Not many people are interested in serious >>>> > historical >>>> > and >>>> > genealogical >>>> > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but >>>> > they don't >>>> > get >>>> > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They >>>> > just >>>> > want to >>>> > punch a >>>> > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy >>>> > back to >>>> > Adam and >>>> > > Eve. >>>> > > >>>> > > ______ >>>> > > >>>> > > Laurence >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: Aida Kraus >>>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> > expulsion >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, >>>> > because >>>> > ancestors >>>> > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion >>>> > lists, >>>> > court >>>> > > documents, witness reports, property records are all >>>> > part of >>>> > this and >>>> > > present valuable information material for >>>> > genealogical >>>> > research. If >>>> > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find >>>> > your >>>> > roots? The >>>> > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter >>>> > how long >>>> > it takes. >>>> > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who >>>> > simply >>>> > could >>>> > not find a >>>> > > link to a family member. The person she was looking >>>> > for "did >>>> > not >>>> > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was >>>> > tenacious. In >>>> > the end she >>>> > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her >>>> > family. >>>> > ...... >>>> > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. >>>> > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around >>>> > these >>>> > "unpleasant >>>> > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the >>>> > second >>>> > world >>>> > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to >>>> > be >>>> > a one >>>> > sided >>>> > > deal, my friends! >>>> > > It hits home, when a transgression highly >>>> > censured is >>>> > returned by >>>> > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It >>>> > makes us >>>> > look >>>> > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we >>>> > know >>>> > that we >>>> > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. >>>> > Genocide is >>>> > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that >>>> > we >>>> > will >>>> > find >>>> > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR >>>> > HISTORY >>>> > > Aida >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >>>> > > wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > / >>>> > > >>>> > > Hello Aida, >>>> > > >>>> > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" >>>> > existed, but >>>> > a small >>>> > > number of people read the literature. Not many people >>>> > are >>>> > > interested in the past. >>>> > > >>>> > > _______ >>>> > > >>>> > > Laurence >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: Aida Kraus >>>> > > >>>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; >>>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> > expulsion >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely >>>> > published >>>> > in the >>>> > Holocaust >>>> > > papers and many other documentation from the >>>> > Nuremberg >>>> > trials >>>> > in a >>>> > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... >>>> > but >>>> > what >>>> > came >>>> > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into >>>> > any press >>>> > and >>>> > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It >>>> > is >>>> > just >>>> > now >>>> > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part >>>> > of >>>> > history. >>>> > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not >>>> > more so. >>>> > > Aida >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence >>>> > Krupnak >>>> > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > / >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Do data exist for the number of Germans >>>> > who >>>> > resided in the >>>> > > places >>>> > > that you described who either joined or were >>>> > conscripted in Nazi >>>> > > military and they themselves committed >>>> > attrocities? >>>> > Any memoirs >>>> > > or >>>> > > letters of admission or regret on what they >>>> > or >>>> > Germany >>>> > did? >>>> > > >>>> > > _____ >>>> > > >>>> > > Lavrentiy >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> >>>> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> > expulsion >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > This is a witness report of people who have >>>> > gone >>>> > through the >>>> > > cruelty >>>> > > > of >>>> > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a >>>> > document >>>> > called >>>> > > "Whitebook" >>>> > > > and >>>> > > > contains legal witness records kept in the >>>> > files at >>>> > Bonn by the >>>> > > > German >>>> > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. >>>> > However, >>>> > they should >>>> > > have >>>> > > > published it as part of truthful reporting >>>> > of >>>> > history after the >>>> > > > homeless >>>> > > > had declared their Charter. You will find >>>> > that >>>> > charter on the >>>> > > link >>>> > > > listed >>>> > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us >>>> > Germans >>>> > who have lost >>>> > > their >>>> > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of >>>> > expelled >>>> > persons >>>> > and their >>>> > > deaths >>>> > > > have >>>> > > > never been fully established. They were >>>> > living for >>>> > centuries (in >>>> > > some >>>> > > > cases >>>> > > > as natives) in countries which is now >>>> > Poland, >>>> > Lithuania, >>>> > > Estonia, >>>> > > > Latvia, >>>> > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former >>>> > Yugoslavia, >>>> > > Czechoslovakia >>>> > > > and >>>> > > > others, and their deaths were caused by >>>> > mass >>>> > transports, mass >>>> > > > executions, >>>> > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between >>>> > 1945-1947, up to >>>> > two years >>>> > > after >>>> > > > the >>>> > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people >>>> > are >>>> > found >>>> > from time to >>>> > > time >>>> > > > even >>>> > > > now at construction excavations but >>>> > creates >>>> > just a >>>> > minimum of >>>> > > > publicity, >>>> > > > because it was so horrendous that even the >>>> > victims >>>> > would rather >>>> > > > forget. >>>> > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice >>>> > the >>>> > date of >>>> > the >>>> > > Charter.... >>>> > > > just >>>> > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our >>>> > losses were >>>> > still fresh: >>>> > > > >>>> > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 >>>> > > > Aida >>>> > > > >>>> > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, >>>> > <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: >>>> > > > >>>> > > >> Aida, >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> I found this while researching family >>>> > members from >>>> > Freiwaldau. >>>> > > What >>>> > > >> is >>>> > > >> your opinion of this. >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding >>>> > propaganda >>>> > and would >>>> > > like to >>>> > > >> know what's what. Thanks. >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> Cathy >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > >> ------------------------------- >>>> > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send >>>> > an >>>> > email >>>> > to >>>> > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with >>>> > the word >>>> > > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > >> without >>>> > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of >>>> > the >>>> > message >>>> > > >> >>>> > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send >>>> > an >>>> > email >>>> > to >>>> > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with >>>> > the >>>> > word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > > without the quotes in the subject and the >>>> > body of >>>> > the message >>>> > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> > email to >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> > message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> > email >>>> > to >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> > message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' without >>>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without >>>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. >>>> >>>> To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an >>>> email >>>> to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. >>>> >>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com >>>> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and >>>> the >>>> body of the >>>> email with no additional text. >>>> >>>> >>>> End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 >>>> *********************************************** >>> >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Aida wrote: >This was a wonderful film, Lawrentiy, but it is not what our readership is researching. I know. I just wanted for people to see how many people emigrated (via train) to the seaports., _________ Lavrentiy

Aida, I found the Geneva Diplomacy website, and de Zayas' personal website, but can't find any talks specifically about the German expulsion. Do you have any links to those lectures handy? thanks, Brandt > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com > Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 114 > To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:00:13 -0600 > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: mode of travel in 1859? (Aida Kraus) > 2. Literature on Expulsion (Aida Kraus) > 3. Re: Literature on Expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) > 4. Re: mode of travel in 1859? (Laurence Krupnak) > 5. Expulsion discussions (Laurence Krupnak) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 08:00:57 -0700 > From: Aida Kraus <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] mode of travel in 1859? > To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <CAPY_z9xq82EJJ5t5zu_Uem6KtrAP8DLW=dhHiZqK44z6JgZ18Q@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Yes, Gary, railroad services were available at that time of your ancestral > emigration. They started to build railroads in 1835 and it was in full > swing by 1841. Read this: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Germany > Aida > > On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:39 AM, Gary Wiltscheck <garywilt@newulmtel.net>wrote: > > > Does anyone have any idea what the mode of travel was for emigrating > > Bohemians travelling to Bremen, Germany in 1859? > > > > Could rail service have been in place by then? > > > > I've seen an early map of Europe railroads but not sure of the years. > > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, Gary Wiltscheck > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 08:09:56 -0700 > From: Aida Kraus <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Literature on Expulsion > To: GBHS <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com>, Laurence Krupnak > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > Message-ID: > <CAPY_z9wjJRn_=3oW_YJO8BVrOdauH-4vDZHGKrDNbr+KGATWjw@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I can highly recommend all the writings of this internationally trained > Diplomat: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred-Maurice_de_Zayas > <http://ww.genevadiplomacy.com/dr-alfred-de-zayas-appointed-independent-expert-promotion-democratic-and-equitable-international-ord> > Aida > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 11:32:38 -0400 > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Literature on Expulsion > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <F310B9B1FB4C4A13BB414C7D86D03B14@user45c476a8b6> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks Aida. However: > > While de Zayas' human rights publications largely reflect United Nations positions, his historical research and conclusions regarding the ethnic cleansing[54] of Germans from their native Land in East Germany and Eastern Europe at the end of World War II have given rise to controversy.[55][56][57][58 > > > Any other sources which should also be accessed? > > > > ______ > > Lavrentiy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > To: GBHS ; Laurence Krupnak > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:09 AM > Subject: Literature on Expulsion > > > I can highly recommend all the writings of this internationally trained Diplomat: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred-Maurice_de_Zayas > Aida > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 11:42:56 -0400 > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] mode of travel in 1859? > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <592B4207F65549D4835A16C95197BA7B@user45c476a8b6> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > / > > Waiting for the train: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PFlQHPuX0k&feature=relmfu > > > at the 2:00 min. mark > > ________ > > Lavrentiy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:00 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] mode of travel in 1859? > > > > Yes, Gary, railroad services were available at that time of your > > ancestral > > emigration. They started to build railroads in 1835 and it was in > > full > > swing by 1841. Read this: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Germany > > Aida > > > > On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:39 AM, Gary Wiltscheck > > <garywilt@newulmtel.net>wrote: > > > >> Does anyone have any idea what the mode of travel was for emigrating > >> Bohemians travelling to Bremen, Germany in 1859? > >> > >> Could rail service have been in place by then? > >> > >> I've seen an early map of Europe railroads but not sure of the years. > >> > >> Any help would be appreciated. > >> > >> Thanks, Gary Wiltscheck > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:00:08 -0400 > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Expulsion discussions > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <D7F63B119B9044E9977FF55CF4D4AB2C@user45c476a8b6> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > Example expulsion discussions: > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AExpulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II/Archive_10 > > > > _______ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > > > > Hi Brandt, > > > > There are many books, papers, etc. on the subject. It is critical > > to read information from all perspectives: expellee and expellee > > organizations, Czech point-of-view, etc. > > > > Anybody have recommendations about references which have a > > "neutral" bias? > > > > ________ > > > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brandt Gibson" <ironhide781@hotmail.com> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue > > 109 > > > > > >> > >> I only learned of the expulsion recently through this mailing list. > >> Are there any books on the expulsion? My ancestors lived in the > >> Rosshaupt/Strobl/Zirk area, so anything about that area would be of > >> interest to me, before or after the expulsion. Thanks, Brandt > >> > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com > >>> Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > >>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:49:19 -0600 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > >>> Today's Topics: > >>> > >>> 1. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) > >>> 2. Malinak from Halenkov (dcuillard@aol.com) > >>> 3. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (fslocum@accelplus.net) > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Message: 1 > >>> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:49:46 -0400 > >>> From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >>> Message-ID: <820E72FB59024BADB2A2712499002536@user45c476a8b6> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >>> > >>> Marg and Frank, > >>> > >>> I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, very, > >>> very, very, etc. small number of people who do that. > >>> > >>> ________ > >>> > >>> Lavrentiy > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: Marg McEuen > >>> To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>> > >>> > >>> I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and > >>> Aida. I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal > >>> Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near > >>> Lestkov) and sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far > >>> because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, > >>> too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. > >>> for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on > >>> around them. > >>> > >>> None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I > >>> do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out > >>> what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My > >>> paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was > >>> just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her > >>> about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very > >>> much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, > >>> as > >>> her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the USA by > >>> 1887. > >>> > >>> I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and > >>> your personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of > >>> the > >>> history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so > >>> much > >>> for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg McEuen > >>> > >>> --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net > >>> <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > >>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > >>> > >>> > >>> lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family > >>> activities, and > >>> like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the > >>> source. When it > >>> crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes > >>> more difficult. > >>> > >>> I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations > >>> prior. I also know > >>> there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and > >>> witnessed his will. > >>> But what happened to them from 1870 on? > >>> > >>> A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village > >>> near > >>> Karlsbad and > >>> took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone > >>> except for flowers, > >>> grasses and a well spot. > >>> > >>> In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an > >>> see it for > >>> myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and > >>> the > >>> other for his > >>> grave marker. > >>> > >>> Frank Heidl Slocum > >>> Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > >>> > >>> > / > >>> > Not many people are interested in serious historical > >>> and genealogical > >>> > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they > >>> don't get > >>> > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just > >>> want to punch a > >>> > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back > >>> to Adam and > >>> > Eve. > >>> > > >>> > ______ > >>> > > >>> > Laurence > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: Aida Kraus > >>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>> expulsion > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, > >>> because ancestors > >>> > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion > >>> lists, court > >>> > documents, witness reports, property records are all > >>> part > >>> of this and > >>> > present valuable information material for genealogical > >>> research. If > >>> > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your > >>> roots? The > >>> > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how > >>> long it takes. > >>> > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply > >>> could not find a > >>> > link to a family member. The person she was looking for > >>> "did not > >>> > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was > >>> tenacious. > >>> In the end she > >>> > found out why he did not exist in any records of her > >>> family. ...... > >>> > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > >>> > So, I guess, we have to get our head around > >>> these > >>> "unpleasant > >>> > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the > >>> second world > >>> > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be > >>> a > >>> one sided > >>> > deal, my friends! > >>> > It hits home, when a transgression highly > >>> censured is returned by > >>> > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes > >>> us look > >>> > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know > >>> that we > >>> > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. > >>> Genocide is > >>> > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we > >>> will find > >>> > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR > >>> HISTORY > >>> > Aida > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>> <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > / > >>> > > >>> > Hello Aida, > >>> > > >>> > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" > >>> existed, but a small > >>> > number of people read the literature. Not many people > >>> are > >>> > interested in the past. > >>> > > >>> > _______ > >>> > > >>> > Laurence > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: Aida Kraus > >>> > > >>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; > >>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>> expulsion > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published > >>> in > >>> the Holocaust > >>> > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg > >>> trials in a > >>> > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but > >>> what came > >>> > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any > >>> press and > >>> > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is > >>> just now > >>> > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of > >>> history. > >>> > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not > >>> more so. > >>> > Aida > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > / > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Do data exist for the number of Germans who > >>> resided in the > >>> > places > >>> > that you described who either joined or were > >>> conscripted in Nazi > >>> > military and they themselves committed > >>> attrocities? Any memoirs > >>> > or > >>> > letters of admission or regret on what they or > >>> Germany did? > >>> > > >>> > _____ > >>> > > >>> > Lavrentiy > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > >>> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >>> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>> expulsion > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > This is a witness report of people who have > >>> gone through the > >>> > cruelty > >>> > > of > >>> > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a > >>> document called > >>> > "Whitebook" > >>> > > and > >>> > > contains legal witness records kept in the > >>> files at Bonn by the > >>> > > German > >>> > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. > >>> However, they should > >>> > have > >>> > > published it as part of truthful reporting of > >>> history after the > >>> > > homeless > >>> > > had declared their Charter. You will find that > >>> charter on the > >>> > link > >>> > > listed > >>> > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us > >>> Germans who have lost > >>> > their > >>> > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled > >>> persons and their > >>> > deaths > >>> > > have > >>> > > never been fully established. They were living > >>> for centuries (in > >>> > some > >>> > > cases > >>> > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, > >>> Lithuania, > >>> > Estonia, > >>> > > Latvia, > >>> > > Ukraine, the different states of the former > >>> Yugoslavia, > >>> > Czechoslovakia > >>> > > and > >>> > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass > >>> transports, mass > >>> > > executions, > >>> > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, > >>> up to two years > >>> > after > >>> > > the > >>> > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are > >>> found from time to > >>> > time > >>> > > even > >>> > > now at construction excavations but creates > >>> just a minimum of > >>> > > publicity, > >>> > > because it was so horrendous that even the > >>> victims would rather > >>> > > forget. > >>> > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the > >>> date of the > >>> > Charter.... > >>> > > just > >>> > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses > >>> were still fresh: > >>> > > > >>> http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > >>> > > Aida > >>> > > > >>> > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, > >>> <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > >> Aida, > >>> > >> > >>> > >> I found this while researching family members > >>> from Freiwaldau. > >>> > What > >>> > >> is > >>> > >> your opinion of this. > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >>> > >> > >>> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding > >>> propaganda and would > >>> > like to > >>> > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Cathy > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > >> ------------------------------- > >>> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>> email to > >>> > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the > >>> word > >>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>> > >> without > >>> > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> message > >>> > >> > >>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > > ------------------------------- > >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>> email to > >>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the > >>> word 'unsubscribe' > >>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body > >>> of the message > >>> > > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > ------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>> email to > >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> 'unsubscribe' > >>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> message > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > ------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > >>> to > >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> 'unsubscribe' > >>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> message > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > ------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> 'unsubscribe' without > >>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 2 > >>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:55:55 -0400 (EDT) > >>> From: dcuillard@aol.com > >>> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov > >>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> Message-ID: <8CF2C027534F63C-8B4-EB1@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the > >>> Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. > >>> Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he > >>> and his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. > >>> Thanks, > >>> Donna > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 3 > >>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) > >>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net > >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > >>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> Message-ID: > >>> <49414.97.97.3.169.1341852546.squirrel@secure.accelplus.net> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > >>> > >>> Lavrentiy, I consider this curious effort the worlds largest jigsaw > >>> puzzle. It is in my basic curiosity make up. Sometimes I find a > >>> piece and > >>> know it fits someplace but must find the adjoining piece first. This > >>> puzzle is a 360 degree puzzle. > >>> > >>> Frank > >>> > >>> > >>> > Marg and Frank, > >>> > > >>> > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, > >>> > very, very, > >>> > very, etc. small number of people who do that. > >>> > > >>> > ________ > >>> > > >>> > Lavrentiy > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > From: Marg McEuen > >>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and > >>> > Aida. > >>> > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, > >>> > Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and > >>> > sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of > >>> > health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try to > >>> > find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as > >>> > many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around > >>> > them. > >>> > > >>> > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but > >>> > I > >>> > do try > >>> > to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what > >>> > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My > >>> > paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was > >>> > just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her > >>> > about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very > >>> > much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, > >>> > as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the > >>> > USA by 1887. > >>> > > >>> > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and > >>> > your > >>> > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the > >>> > history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so > >>> > much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg > >>> > McEuen > >>> > > >>> > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net > >>> > <fslocum@accelplus.net> > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>> > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > >>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family > >>> > activities, and > >>> > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the > >>> > source. > >>> > When it > >>> > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes > >>> > more > >>> > difficult. > >>> > > >>> > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations > >>> > prior. I > >>> > also know > >>> > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and > >>> > witnessed > >>> > his will. > >>> > But what happened to them from 1870 on? > >>> > > >>> > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village > >>> > near > >>> > Karlsbad and > >>> > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone > >>> > except > >>> > for flowers, > >>> > grasses and a well spot. > >>> > > >>> > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there > >>> > an see > >>> > it for > >>> > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and > >>> > the > >>> > other for his > >>> > grave marker. > >>> > > >>> > Frank Heidl Slocum > >>> > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > >>> > > >>> > > / > >>> > > Not many people are interested in serious > >>> > historical > >>> > and > >>> > genealogical > >>> > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but > >>> > they don't > >>> > get > >>> > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just > >>> > want to > >>> > punch a > >>> > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy > >>> > back to > >>> > Adam and > >>> > > Eve. > >>> > > > >>> > > ______ > >>> > > > >>> > > Laurence > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > > From: Aida Kraus > >>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > >>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>> > expulsion > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, > >>> > because > >>> > ancestors > >>> > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion > >>> > lists, > >>> > court > >>> > > documents, witness reports, property records are all > >>> > part of > >>> > this and > >>> > > present valuable information material for genealogical > >>> > research. If > >>> > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find > >>> > your > >>> > roots? The > >>> > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter > >>> > how long > >>> > it takes. > >>> > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply > >>> > could > >>> > not find a > >>> > > link to a family member. The person she was looking > >>> > for "did > >>> > not > >>> > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was > >>> > tenacious. In > >>> > the end she > >>> > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her > >>> > family. > >>> > ...... > >>> > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > >>> > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around > >>> > these > >>> > "unpleasant > >>> > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the > >>> > second > >>> > world > >>> > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to > >>> > be > >>> > a one > >>> > sided > >>> > > deal, my friends! > >>> > > It hits home, when a transgression highly > >>> > censured is > >>> > returned by > >>> > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It > >>> > makes us > >>> > look > >>> > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know > >>> > that we > >>> > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. > >>> > Genocide is > >>> > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we > >>> > will > >>> > find > >>> > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR > >>> > HISTORY > >>> > > Aida > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > >>> > > wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > / > >>> > > > >>> > > Hello Aida, > >>> > > > >>> > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" > >>> > existed, but > >>> > a small > >>> > > number of people read the literature. Not many people > >>> > are > >>> > > interested in the past. > >>> > > > >>> > > _______ > >>> > > > >>> > > Laurence > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > > From: Aida Kraus > >>> > > > >>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; > >>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > >>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>> > expulsion > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published > >>> > in the > >>> > Holocaust > >>> > > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg > >>> > trials > >>> > in a > >>> > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but > >>> > what > >>> > came > >>> > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into > >>> > any press > >>> > and > >>> > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It > >>> > is > >>> > just > >>> > now > >>> > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part > >>> > of > >>> > history. > >>> > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not > >>> > more so. > >>> > > Aida > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>> > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > / > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > Do data exist for the number of Germans > >>> > who > >>> > resided in the > >>> > > places > >>> > > that you described who either joined or were > >>> > conscripted in Nazi > >>> > > military and they themselves committed > >>> > attrocities? > >>> > Any memoirs > >>> > > or > >>> > > letters of admission or regret on what they or > >>> > Germany > >>> > did? > >>> > > > >>> > > _____ > >>> > > > >>> > > Lavrentiy > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > >>> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >>> > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > >>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>> > expulsion > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > This is a witness report of people who have > >>> > gone > >>> > through the > >>> > > cruelty > >>> > > > of > >>> > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a > >>> > document > >>> > called > >>> > > "Whitebook" > >>> > > > and > >>> > > > contains legal witness records kept in the > >>> > files at > >>> > Bonn by the > >>> > > > German > >>> > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. > >>> > However, > >>> > they should > >>> > > have > >>> > > > published it as part of truthful reporting > >>> > of > >>> > history after the > >>> > > > homeless > >>> > > > had declared their Charter. You will find > >>> > that > >>> > charter on the > >>> > > link > >>> > > > listed > >>> > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us > >>> > Germans > >>> > who have lost > >>> > > their > >>> > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled > >>> > persons > >>> > and their > >>> > > deaths > >>> > > > have > >>> > > > never been fully established. They were > >>> > living for > >>> > centuries (in > >>> > > some > >>> > > > cases > >>> > > > as natives) in countries which is now > >>> > Poland, > >>> > Lithuania, > >>> > > Estonia, > >>> > > > Latvia, > >>> > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former > >>> > Yugoslavia, > >>> > > Czechoslovakia > >>> > > > and > >>> > > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass > >>> > transports, mass > >>> > > > executions, > >>> > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between > >>> > 1945-1947, up to > >>> > two years > >>> > > after > >>> > > > the > >>> > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people > >>> > are > >>> > found > >>> > from time to > >>> > > time > >>> > > > even > >>> > > > now at construction excavations but creates > >>> > just a > >>> > minimum of > >>> > > > publicity, > >>> > > > because it was so horrendous that even the > >>> > victims > >>> > would rather > >>> > > > forget. > >>> > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the > >>> > date of > >>> > the > >>> > > Charter.... > >>> > > > just > >>> > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our > >>> > losses were > >>> > still fresh: > >>> > > > > >>> > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > >>> > > > Aida > >>> > > > > >>> > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, > >>> > <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >>> > > > > >>> > > >> Aida, > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> I found this while researching family > >>> > members from > >>> > Freiwaldau. > >>> > > What > >>> > > >> is > >>> > > >> your opinion of this. > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding > >>> > propaganda > >>> > and would > >>> > > like to > >>> > > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> Cathy > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > > >> ------------------------------- > >>> > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send > >>> > an > >>> > email > >>> > to > >>> > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with > >>> > the word > >>> > > 'unsubscribe' > >>> > > >> without > >>> > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of > >>> > the > >>> > message > >>> > > >> > >>> > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > > > ------------------------------- > >>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>> > email > >>> > to > >>> > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with > >>> > the > >>> > word > >>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>> > > > without the quotes in the subject and the > >>> > body of > >>> > the message > >>> > > > >>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > > ------------------------------- > >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>> > email to > >>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> > message > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > > ------------------------------- > >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > >>> > to > >>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> > message > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > > ------------------------------- > >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>> > 'unsubscribe' without > >>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > ------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> > ------------------------------- > >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> > without > >>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to > >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > >>> > >>> To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an email > >>> to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. > >>> > >>> __________________________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com > >>> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and > >>> the > >>> body of the > >>> email with no additional text. > >>> > >>> > >>> End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > >>> *********************************************** > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 114 > ***********************************************

/ Want to contribute?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II ______ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:00 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Expulsion discussions > Example expulsion discussions: > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AExpulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II/Archive_10 > > > > _______ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:32 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue > 109 > > >> Hi Brandt, >> >> There are many books, papers, etc. on the subject. It is critical >> to read information from all perspectives: expellee and expellee >> organizations, Czech point-of-view, etc. >> >> Anybody have recommendations about references which have a >> "neutral" bias? >> >> ________ >> >> Lavrentiy >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brandt Gibson" <ironhide781@hotmail.com> >> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue >> 109 >> >> >>> >>> I only learned of the expulsion recently through this mailing list. >>> Are there any books on the expulsion? My ancestors lived in the >>> Rosshaupt/Strobl/Zirk area, so anything about that area would be of >>> interest to me, before or after the expulsion. Thanks, Brandt >>> > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com >>>> Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 >>>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:49:19 -0600 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) >>>> 2. Malinak from Halenkov (dcuillard@aol.com) >>>> 3. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (fslocum@accelplus.net) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:49:46 -0400 >>>> From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >>>> Message-ID: <820E72FB59024BADB2A2712499002536@user45c476a8b6> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>> >>>> Marg and Frank, >>>> >>>> I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, >>>> very, >>>> very, very, etc. small number of people who do that. >>>> >>>> ________ >>>> >>>> Lavrentiy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Marg McEuen >>>> To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> >>>> >>>> I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and >>>> Aida. I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal >>>> Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near >>>> Lestkov) and sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far >>>> because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, >>>> too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. >>>> for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on >>>> around them. >>>> >>>> None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I >>>> do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out >>>> what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My >>>> paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was >>>> just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her >>>> about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very >>>> much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, >>>> as >>>> her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the USA by >>>> 1887. >>>> >>>> I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and >>>> your personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of >>>> the >>>> history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so >>>> much >>>> for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg >>>> McEuen >>>> >>>> --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net >>>> <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family >>>> activities, and >>>> like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the >>>> source. When it >>>> crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes >>>> more difficult. >>>> >>>> I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations >>>> prior. I also know >>>> there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and >>>> witnessed his will. >>>> But what happened to them from 1870 on? >>>> >>>> A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village >>>> near >>>> Karlsbad and >>>> took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone >>>> except for flowers, >>>> grasses and a well spot. >>>> >>>> In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there >>>> an >>>> see it for >>>> myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and >>>> the >>>> other for his >>>> grave marker. >>>> >>>> Frank Heidl Slocum >>>> Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl >>>> >>>> > / >>>> > Not many people are interested in serious historical >>>> and genealogical >>>> > research. Many people have a passing interest, but >>>> they >>>> don't get >>>> > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just >>>> want to punch a >>>> > name in a computer database and get their genealogy >>>> back >>>> to Adam and >>>> > Eve. >>>> > >>>> > ______ >>>> > >>>> > Laurence >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Aida Kraus >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> expulsion >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, >>>> because ancestors >>>> > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion >>>> lists, court >>>> > documents, witness reports, property records are all >>>> part >>>> of this and >>>> > present valuable information material for genealogical >>>> research. If >>>> > you do not know history, how can you possibly find >>>> your >>>> roots? The >>>> > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter >>>> how >>>> long it takes. >>>> > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply >>>> could not find a >>>> > link to a family member. The person she was looking >>>> for >>>> "did not >>>> > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was >>>> tenacious. >>>> In the end she >>>> > found out why he did not exist in any records of her >>>> family. ...... >>>> > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. >>>> > So, I guess, we have to get our head around >>>> these >>>> "unpleasant >>>> > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the >>>> second world >>>> > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be >>>> a >>>> one sided >>>> > deal, my friends! >>>> > It hits home, when a transgression highly >>>> censured is returned by >>>> > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It >>>> makes >>>> us look >>>> > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know >>>> that we >>>> > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. >>>> Genocide is >>>> > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we >>>> will find >>>> > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR >>>> HISTORY >>>> > Aida >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>>> <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > / >>>> > >>>> > Hello Aida, >>>> > >>>> > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" >>>> existed, but a small >>>> > number of people read the literature. Not many people >>>> are >>>> > interested in the past. >>>> > >>>> > _______ >>>> > >>>> > Laurence >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Aida Kraus >>>> > >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> expulsion >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published >>>> in >>>> the Holocaust >>>> > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg >>>> trials in a >>>> > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but >>>> what came >>>> > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into >>>> any >>>> press and >>>> > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is >>>> just now >>>> > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part >>>> of >>>> history. >>>> > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not >>>> more so. >>>> > Aida >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > / >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Do data exist for the number of Germans >>>> who >>>> resided in the >>>> > places >>>> > that you described who either joined or were >>>> conscripted in Nazi >>>> > military and they themselves committed >>>> attrocities? Any memoirs >>>> > or >>>> > letters of admission or regret on what they or >>>> Germany did? >>>> > >>>> > _____ >>>> > >>>> > Lavrentiy >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> >>>> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >>>> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> expulsion >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > This is a witness report of people who have >>>> gone through the >>>> > cruelty >>>> > > of >>>> > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a >>>> document called >>>> > "Whitebook" >>>> > > and >>>> > > contains legal witness records kept in the >>>> files at Bonn by the >>>> > > German >>>> > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. >>>> However, they should >>>> > have >>>> > > published it as part of truthful reporting of >>>> history after the >>>> > > homeless >>>> > > had declared their Charter. You will find >>>> that >>>> charter on the >>>> > link >>>> > > listed >>>> > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us >>>> Germans who have lost >>>> > their >>>> > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled >>>> persons and their >>>> > deaths >>>> > > have >>>> > > never been fully established. They were >>>> living >>>> for centuries (in >>>> > some >>>> > > cases >>>> > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, >>>> Lithuania, >>>> > Estonia, >>>> > > Latvia, >>>> > > Ukraine, the different states of the former >>>> Yugoslavia, >>>> > Czechoslovakia >>>> > > and >>>> > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass >>>> transports, mass >>>> > > executions, >>>> > > rapes and sadistic tortures between >>>> 1945-1947, >>>> up to two years >>>> > after >>>> > > the >>>> > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are >>>> found from time to >>>> > time >>>> > > even >>>> > > now at construction excavations but creates >>>> just a minimum of >>>> > > publicity, >>>> > > because it was so horrendous that even the >>>> victims would rather >>>> > > forget. >>>> > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the >>>> date of the >>>> > Charter.... >>>> > > just >>>> > > 5 years after the war when wound of our >>>> losses >>>> were still fresh: >>>> > > >>>> http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 >>>> > > Aida >>>> > > >>>> > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, >>>> <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > >> Aida, >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I found this while researching family >>>> members >>>> from Freiwaldau. >>>> > What >>>> > >> is >>>> > >> your opinion of this. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding >>>> propaganda and would >>>> > like to >>>> > >> know what's what. Thanks. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Cathy >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > >> ------------------------------- >>>> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> email to >>>> > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with >>>> the >>>> word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > >> without >>>> > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of >>>> the >>>> message >>>> > >> >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> email to >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the >>>> word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the >>>> body >>>> of the message >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> email to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> message >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >>>> to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> message >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> 'unsubscribe' without >>>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:55:55 -0400 (EDT) >>>> From: dcuillard@aol.com >>>> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov >>>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Message-ID: <8CF2C027534F63C-8B4-EB1@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the >>>> Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. >>>> Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he >>>> and his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Donna >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 3 >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) >>>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <49414.97.97.3.169.1341852546.squirrel@secure.accelplus.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 >>>> >>>> Lavrentiy, I consider this curious effort the worlds largest jigsaw >>>> puzzle. It is in my basic curiosity make up. Sometimes I find a >>>> piece and >>>> know it fits someplace but must find the adjoining piece first. >>>> This >>>> puzzle is a 360 degree puzzle. >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> >>>> > Marg and Frank, >>>> > >>>> > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, >>>> > very, very, >>>> > very, etc. small number of people who do that. >>>> > >>>> > ________ >>>> > >>>> > Lavrentiy >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: Marg McEuen >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank >>>> > and >>>> > Aida. >>>> > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, >>>> > Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and >>>> > sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of >>>> > health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try >>>> > to >>>> > find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as >>>> > many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around >>>> > them. >>>> > >>>> > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but >>>> > I >>>> > do try >>>> > to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what >>>> > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My >>>> > paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was >>>> > just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her >>>> > about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would >>>> > very >>>> > much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one >>>> > aunt, >>>> > as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the >>>> > USA by 1887. >>>> > >>>> > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and >>>> > your >>>> > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the >>>> > history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so >>>> > much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. >>>> > Marg >>>> > McEuen >>>> > >>>> > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net >>>> > <fslocum@accelplus.net> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>>> > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >>>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family >>>> > activities, and >>>> > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the >>>> > source. >>>> > When it >>>> > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all >>>> > becomes >>>> > more >>>> > difficult. >>>> > >>>> > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations >>>> > prior. I >>>> > also know >>>> > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and >>>> > witnessed >>>> > his will. >>>> > But what happened to them from 1870 on? >>>> > >>>> > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village >>>> > near >>>> > Karlsbad and >>>> > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone >>>> > except >>>> > for flowers, >>>> > grasses and a well spot. >>>> > >>>> > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there >>>> > an see >>>> > it for >>>> > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and >>>> > the >>>> > other for his >>>> > grave marker. >>>> > >>>> > Frank Heidl Slocum >>>> > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl >>>> > >>>> > > / >>>> > > Not many people are interested in serious >>>> > historical >>>> > and >>>> > genealogical >>>> > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but >>>> > they don't >>>> > get >>>> > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They >>>> > just >>>> > want to >>>> > punch a >>>> > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy >>>> > back to >>>> > Adam and >>>> > > Eve. >>>> > > >>>> > > ______ >>>> > > >>>> > > Laurence >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: Aida Kraus >>>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> > expulsion >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, >>>> > because >>>> > ancestors >>>> > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion >>>> > lists, >>>> > court >>>> > > documents, witness reports, property records are all >>>> > part of >>>> > this and >>>> > > present valuable information material for >>>> > genealogical >>>> > research. If >>>> > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find >>>> > your >>>> > roots? The >>>> > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter >>>> > how long >>>> > it takes. >>>> > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who >>>> > simply >>>> > could >>>> > not find a >>>> > > link to a family member. The person she was looking >>>> > for "did >>>> > not >>>> > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was >>>> > tenacious. In >>>> > the end she >>>> > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her >>>> > family. >>>> > ...... >>>> > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. >>>> > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around >>>> > these >>>> > "unpleasant >>>> > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the >>>> > second >>>> > world >>>> > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to >>>> > be >>>> > a one >>>> > sided >>>> > > deal, my friends! >>>> > > It hits home, when a transgression highly >>>> > censured is >>>> > returned by >>>> > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It >>>> > makes us >>>> > look >>>> > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we >>>> > know >>>> > that we >>>> > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. >>>> > Genocide is >>>> > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that >>>> > we >>>> > will >>>> > find >>>> > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR >>>> > HISTORY >>>> > > Aida >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >>>> > > wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > / >>>> > > >>>> > > Hello Aida, >>>> > > >>>> > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" >>>> > existed, but >>>> > a small >>>> > > number of people read the literature. Not many people >>>> > are >>>> > > interested in the past. >>>> > > >>>> > > _______ >>>> > > >>>> > > Laurence >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: Aida Kraus >>>> > > >>>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; >>>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> > expulsion >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely >>>> > published >>>> > in the >>>> > Holocaust >>>> > > papers and many other documentation from the >>>> > Nuremberg >>>> > trials >>>> > in a >>>> > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... >>>> > but >>>> > what >>>> > came >>>> > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into >>>> > any press >>>> > and >>>> > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It >>>> > is >>>> > just >>>> > now >>>> > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part >>>> > of >>>> > history. >>>> > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not >>>> > more so. >>>> > > Aida >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence >>>> > Krupnak >>>> > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > / >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > Do data exist for the number of Germans >>>> > who >>>> > resided in the >>>> > > places >>>> > > that you described who either joined or were >>>> > conscripted in Nazi >>>> > > military and they themselves committed >>>> > attrocities? >>>> > Any memoirs >>>> > > or >>>> > > letters of admission or regret on what they >>>> > or >>>> > Germany >>>> > did? >>>> > > >>>> > > _____ >>>> > > >>>> > > Lavrentiy >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> >>>> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>>> > expulsion >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > This is a witness report of people who have >>>> > gone >>>> > through the >>>> > > cruelty >>>> > > > of >>>> > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a >>>> > document >>>> > called >>>> > > "Whitebook" >>>> > > > and >>>> > > > contains legal witness records kept in the >>>> > files at >>>> > Bonn by the >>>> > > > German >>>> > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. >>>> > However, >>>> > they should >>>> > > have >>>> > > > published it as part of truthful reporting >>>> > of >>>> > history after the >>>> > > > homeless >>>> > > > had declared their Charter. You will find >>>> > that >>>> > charter on the >>>> > > link >>>> > > > listed >>>> > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us >>>> > Germans >>>> > who have lost >>>> > > their >>>> > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of >>>> > expelled >>>> > persons >>>> > and their >>>> > > deaths >>>> > > > have >>>> > > > never been fully established. They were >>>> > living for >>>> > centuries (in >>>> > > some >>>> > > > cases >>>> > > > as natives) in countries which is now >>>> > Poland, >>>> > Lithuania, >>>> > > Estonia, >>>> > > > Latvia, >>>> > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former >>>> > Yugoslavia, >>>> > > Czechoslovakia >>>> > > > and >>>> > > > others, and their deaths were caused by >>>> > mass >>>> > transports, mass >>>> > > > executions, >>>> > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between >>>> > 1945-1947, up to >>>> > two years >>>> > > after >>>> > > > the >>>> > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people >>>> > are >>>> > found >>>> > from time to >>>> > > time >>>> > > > even >>>> > > > now at construction excavations but >>>> > creates >>>> > just a >>>> > minimum of >>>> > > > publicity, >>>> > > > because it was so horrendous that even the >>>> > victims >>>> > would rather >>>> > > > forget. >>>> > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice >>>> > the >>>> > date of >>>> > the >>>> > > Charter.... >>>> > > > just >>>> > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our >>>> > losses were >>>> > still fresh: >>>> > > > >>>> > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 >>>> > > > Aida >>>> > > > >>>> > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, >>>> > <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: >>>> > > > >>>> > > >> Aida, >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> I found this while researching family >>>> > members from >>>> > Freiwaldau. >>>> > > What >>>> > > >> is >>>> > > >> your opinion of this. >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding >>>> > propaganda >>>> > and would >>>> > > like to >>>> > > >> know what's what. Thanks. >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> Cathy >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>> > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > >> ------------------------------- >>>> > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send >>>> > an >>>> > email >>>> > to >>>> > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with >>>> > the word >>>> > > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > >> without >>>> > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of >>>> > the >>>> > message >>>> > > >> >>>> > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send >>>> > an >>>> > email >>>> > to >>>> > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with >>>> > the >>>> > word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > > without the quotes in the subject and the >>>> > body of >>>> > the message >>>> > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> > email to >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> > message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>>> > email >>>> > to >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> > message >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>>> > 'unsubscribe' without >>>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without >>>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. >>>> >>>> To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an >>>> email >>>> to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. >>>> >>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com >>>> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and >>>> the >>>> body of the >>>> email with no additional text. >>>> >>>> >>>> End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 >>>> *********************************************** >>> >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Example expulsion discussions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AExpulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II/Archive_10 _______ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > Hi Brandt, > > There are many books, papers, etc. on the subject. It is critical > to read information from all perspectives: expellee and expellee > organizations, Czech point-of-view, etc. > > Anybody have recommendations about references which have a > "neutral" bias? > > ________ > > Lavrentiy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brandt Gibson" <ironhide781@hotmail.com> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:10 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue > 109 > > >> >> I only learned of the expulsion recently through this mailing list. >> Are there any books on the expulsion? My ancestors lived in the >> Rosshaupt/Strobl/Zirk area, so anything about that area would be of >> interest to me, before or after the expulsion. Thanks, Brandt >> > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 >>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:49:19 -0600 >>> >>> >>> >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) >>> 2. Malinak from Halenkov (dcuillard@aol.com) >>> 3. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (fslocum@accelplus.net) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:49:46 -0400 >>> From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >>> Message-ID: <820E72FB59024BADB2A2712499002536@user45c476a8b6> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >>> Marg and Frank, >>> >>> I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, very, >>> very, very, etc. small number of people who do that. >>> >>> ________ >>> >>> Lavrentiy >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Marg McEuen >>> To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>> >>> >>> I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and >>> Aida. I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal >>> Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near >>> Lestkov) and sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far >>> because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, >>> too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. >>> for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on >>> around them. >>> >>> None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I >>> do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out >>> what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My >>> paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was >>> just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her >>> about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very >>> much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, >>> as >>> her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the USA by >>> 1887. >>> >>> I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and >>> your personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of >>> the >>> history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so >>> much >>> for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg McEuen >>> >>> --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net >>> <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>> Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM >>> >>> >>> lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family >>> activities, and >>> like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the >>> source. When it >>> crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes >>> more difficult. >>> >>> I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations >>> prior. I also know >>> there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and >>> witnessed his will. >>> But what happened to them from 1870 on? >>> >>> A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village >>> near >>> Karlsbad and >>> took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone >>> except for flowers, >>> grasses and a well spot. >>> >>> In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an >>> see it for >>> myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and >>> the >>> other for his >>> grave marker. >>> >>> Frank Heidl Slocum >>> Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl >>> >>> > / >>> > Not many people are interested in serious historical >>> and genealogical >>> > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they >>> don't get >>> > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just >>> want to punch a >>> > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back >>> to Adam and >>> > Eve. >>> > >>> > ______ >>> > >>> > Laurence >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: Aida Kraus >>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>> expulsion >>> > >>> > >>> > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, >>> because ancestors >>> > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion >>> lists, court >>> > documents, witness reports, property records are all >>> part >>> of this and >>> > present valuable information material for genealogical >>> research. If >>> > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your >>> roots? The >>> > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how >>> long it takes. >>> > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply >>> could not find a >>> > link to a family member. The person she was looking for >>> "did not >>> > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was >>> tenacious. >>> In the end she >>> > found out why he did not exist in any records of her >>> family. ...... >>> > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. >>> > So, I guess, we have to get our head around >>> these >>> "unpleasant >>> > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the >>> second world >>> > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be >>> a >>> one sided >>> > deal, my friends! >>> > It hits home, when a transgression highly >>> censured is returned by >>> > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes >>> us look >>> > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know >>> that we >>> > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. >>> Genocide is >>> > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we >>> will find >>> > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR >>> HISTORY >>> > Aida >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>> <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > / >>> > >>> > Hello Aida, >>> > >>> > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" >>> existed, but a small >>> > number of people read the literature. Not many people >>> are >>> > interested in the past. >>> > >>> > _______ >>> > >>> > Laurence >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: Aida Kraus >>> > >>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; >>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>> expulsion >>> > >>> > >>> > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published >>> in >>> the Holocaust >>> > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg >>> trials in a >>> > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but >>> what came >>> > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any >>> press and >>> > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is >>> just now >>> > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of >>> history. >>> > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not >>> more so. >>> > Aida >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: >>> > >>> > / >>> > >>> > >>> > Do data exist for the number of Germans who >>> resided in the >>> > places >>> > that you described who either joined or were >>> conscripted in Nazi >>> > military and they themselves committed >>> attrocities? Any memoirs >>> > or >>> > letters of admission or regret on what they or >>> Germany did? >>> > >>> > _____ >>> > >>> > Lavrentiy >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> >>> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >>> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>> expulsion >>> > >>> > >>> > > This is a witness report of people who have >>> gone through the >>> > cruelty >>> > > of >>> > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a >>> document called >>> > "Whitebook" >>> > > and >>> > > contains legal witness records kept in the >>> files at Bonn by the >>> > > German >>> > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. >>> However, they should >>> > have >>> > > published it as part of truthful reporting of >>> history after the >>> > > homeless >>> > > had declared their Charter. You will find that >>> charter on the >>> > link >>> > > listed >>> > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us >>> Germans who have lost >>> > their >>> > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled >>> persons and their >>> > deaths >>> > > have >>> > > never been fully established. They were living >>> for centuries (in >>> > some >>> > > cases >>> > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, >>> Lithuania, >>> > Estonia, >>> > > Latvia, >>> > > Ukraine, the different states of the former >>> Yugoslavia, >>> > Czechoslovakia >>> > > and >>> > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass >>> transports, mass >>> > > executions, >>> > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, >>> up to two years >>> > after >>> > > the >>> > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are >>> found from time to >>> > time >>> > > even >>> > > now at construction excavations but creates >>> just a minimum of >>> > > publicity, >>> > > because it was so horrendous that even the >>> victims would rather >>> > > forget. >>> > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the >>> date of the >>> > Charter.... >>> > > just >>> > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses >>> were still fresh: >>> > > >>> http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 >>> > > Aida >>> > > >>> > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, >>> <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: >>> > > >>> > >> Aida, >>> > >> >>> > >> I found this while researching family members >>> from Freiwaldau. >>> > What >>> > >> is >>> > >> your opinion of this. >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >>> > >> >>> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding >>> propaganda and would >>> > like to >>> > >> know what's what. Thanks. >>> > >> >>> > >> Cathy >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > >> ------------------------------- >>> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>> email to >>> > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the >>> word >>> > 'unsubscribe' >>> > >> without >>> > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>> message >>> > >> >>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>> email to >>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the >>> word 'unsubscribe' >>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body >>> of the message >>> > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>> email to >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' >>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>> message >>> > >>> > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >>> to >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' >>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>> message >>> > >>> > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' without >>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > >>> >>> >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:55:55 -0400 (EDT) >>> From: dcuillard@aol.com >>> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov >>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>> Message-ID: <8CF2C027534F63C-8B4-EB1@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> >>> >>> Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the >>> Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. >>> Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he >>> and his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. >>> Thanks, >>> Donna >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 3 >>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) >>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>> Message-ID: >>> <49414.97.97.3.169.1341852546.squirrel@secure.accelplus.net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 >>> >>> Lavrentiy, I consider this curious effort the worlds largest jigsaw >>> puzzle. It is in my basic curiosity make up. Sometimes I find a >>> piece and >>> know it fits someplace but must find the adjoining piece first. This >>> puzzle is a 360 degree puzzle. >>> >>> Frank >>> >>> >>> > Marg and Frank, >>> > >>> > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, >>> > very, very, >>> > very, etc. small number of people who do that. >>> > >>> > ________ >>> > >>> > Lavrentiy >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: Marg McEuen >>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>> > >>> > >>> > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and >>> > Aida. >>> > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, >>> > Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and >>> > sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of >>> > health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try to >>> > find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as >>> > many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around >>> > them. >>> > >>> > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but >>> > I >>> > do try >>> > to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what >>> > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My >>> > paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was >>> > just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her >>> > about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very >>> > much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, >>> > as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the >>> > USA by 1887. >>> > >>> > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and >>> > your >>> > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the >>> > history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so >>> > much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg >>> > McEuen >>> > >>> > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net >>> > <fslocum@accelplus.net> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >>> > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>> > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM >>> > >>> > >>> > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family >>> > activities, and >>> > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the >>> > source. >>> > When it >>> > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes >>> > more >>> > difficult. >>> > >>> > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations >>> > prior. I >>> > also know >>> > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and >>> > witnessed >>> > his will. >>> > But what happened to them from 1870 on? >>> > >>> > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village >>> > near >>> > Karlsbad and >>> > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone >>> > except >>> > for flowers, >>> > grasses and a well spot. >>> > >>> > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there >>> > an see >>> > it for >>> > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and >>> > the >>> > other for his >>> > grave marker. >>> > >>> > Frank Heidl Slocum >>> > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl >>> > >>> > > / >>> > > Not many people are interested in serious >>> > historical >>> > and >>> > genealogical >>> > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but >>> > they don't >>> > get >>> > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just >>> > want to >>> > punch a >>> > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy >>> > back to >>> > Adam and >>> > > Eve. >>> > > >>> > > ______ >>> > > >>> > > Laurence >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > > From: Aida Kraus >>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM >>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>> > expulsion >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, >>> > because >>> > ancestors >>> > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion >>> > lists, >>> > court >>> > > documents, witness reports, property records are all >>> > part of >>> > this and >>> > > present valuable information material for genealogical >>> > research. If >>> > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find >>> > your >>> > roots? The >>> > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter >>> > how long >>> > it takes. >>> > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply >>> > could >>> > not find a >>> > > link to a family member. The person she was looking >>> > for "did >>> > not >>> > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was >>> > tenacious. In >>> > the end she >>> > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her >>> > family. >>> > ...... >>> > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. >>> > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around >>> > these >>> > "unpleasant >>> > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the >>> > second >>> > world >>> > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to >>> > be >>> > a one >>> > sided >>> > > deal, my friends! >>> > > It hits home, when a transgression highly >>> > censured is >>> > returned by >>> > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It >>> > makes us >>> > look >>> > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know >>> > that we >>> > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. >>> > Genocide is >>> > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we >>> > will >>> > find >>> > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR >>> > HISTORY >>> > > Aida >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > >>> > > / >>> > > >>> > > Hello Aida, >>> > > >>> > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" >>> > existed, but >>> > a small >>> > > number of people read the literature. Not many people >>> > are >>> > > interested in the past. >>> > > >>> > > _______ >>> > > >>> > > Laurence >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > > From: Aida Kraus >>> > > >>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; >>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM >>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>> > expulsion >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published >>> > in the >>> > Holocaust >>> > > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg >>> > trials >>> > in a >>> > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but >>> > what >>> > came >>> > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into >>> > any press >>> > and >>> > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It >>> > is >>> > just >>> > now >>> > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part >>> > of >>> > history. >>> > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not >>> > more so. >>> > > Aida >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak >>> > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > / >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Do data exist for the number of Germans >>> > who >>> > resided in the >>> > > places >>> > > that you described who either joined or were >>> > conscripted in Nazi >>> > > military and they themselves committed >>> > attrocities? >>> > Any memoirs >>> > > or >>> > > letters of admission or regret on what they or >>> > Germany >>> > did? >>> > > >>> > > _____ >>> > > >>> > > Lavrentiy >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> >>> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >>> > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM >>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >>> > expulsion >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > This is a witness report of people who have >>> > gone >>> > through the >>> > > cruelty >>> > > > of >>> > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a >>> > document >>> > called >>> > > "Whitebook" >>> > > > and >>> > > > contains legal witness records kept in the >>> > files at >>> > Bonn by the >>> > > > German >>> > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. >>> > However, >>> > they should >>> > > have >>> > > > published it as part of truthful reporting >>> > of >>> > history after the >>> > > > homeless >>> > > > had declared their Charter. You will find >>> > that >>> > charter on the >>> > > link >>> > > > listed >>> > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us >>> > Germans >>> > who have lost >>> > > their >>> > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled >>> > persons >>> > and their >>> > > deaths >>> > > > have >>> > > > never been fully established. They were >>> > living for >>> > centuries (in >>> > > some >>> > > > cases >>> > > > as natives) in countries which is now >>> > Poland, >>> > Lithuania, >>> > > Estonia, >>> > > > Latvia, >>> > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former >>> > Yugoslavia, >>> > > Czechoslovakia >>> > > > and >>> > > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass >>> > transports, mass >>> > > > executions, >>> > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between >>> > 1945-1947, up to >>> > two years >>> > > after >>> > > > the >>> > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people >>> > are >>> > found >>> > from time to >>> > > time >>> > > > even >>> > > > now at construction excavations but creates >>> > just a >>> > minimum of >>> > > > publicity, >>> > > > because it was so horrendous that even the >>> > victims >>> > would rather >>> > > > forget. >>> > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the >>> > date of >>> > the >>> > > Charter.... >>> > > > just >>> > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our >>> > losses were >>> > still fresh: >>> > > > >>> > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 >>> > > > Aida >>> > > > >>> > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, >>> > <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > >> Aida, >>> > > >> >>> > > >> I found this while researching family >>> > members from >>> > Freiwaldau. >>> > > What >>> > > >> is >>> > > >> your opinion of this. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >>> > > >> >>> > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding >>> > propaganda >>> > and would >>> > > like to >>> > > >> know what's what. Thanks. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Cathy >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > > >> ------------------------------- >>> > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send >>> > an >>> > email >>> > to >>> > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with >>> > the word >>> > > 'unsubscribe' >>> > > >> without >>> > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of >>> > the >>> > message >>> > > >> >>> > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > > > ------------------------------- >>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>> > email >>> > to >>> > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with >>> > the >>> > word >>> > 'unsubscribe' >>> > > > without the quotes in the subject and the >>> > body of >>> > the message >>> > > >>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >>> > email to >>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> > 'unsubscribe' >>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>> > message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >>> > to >>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> > 'unsubscribe' >>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>> > message >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > > ------------------------------- >>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> > 'unsubscribe' without >>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> > without >>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. >>> >>> To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an email >>> to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. >>> >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com >>> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and >>> the >>> body of the >>> email with no additional text. >>> >>> >>> End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 >>> *********************************************** >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

/ Waiting for the train: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PFlQHPuX0k&feature=relmfu at the 2:00 min. mark ________ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] mode of travel in 1859? > Yes, Gary, railroad services were available at that time of your > ancestral > emigration. They started to build railroads in 1835 and it was in > full > swing by 1841. Read this: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Germany > Aida > > On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:39 AM, Gary Wiltscheck > <garywilt@newulmtel.net>wrote: > >> Does anyone have any idea what the mode of travel was for emigrating >> Bohemians travelling to Bremen, Germany in 1859? >> >> Could rail service have been in place by then? >> >> I've seen an early map of Europe railroads but not sure of the years. >> >> Any help would be appreciated. >> >> Thanks, Gary Wiltscheck >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Aida. However: While de Zayas' human rights publications largely reflect United Nations positions, his historical research and conclusions regarding the ethnic cleansing[54] of Germans from their native Land in East Germany and Eastern Europe at the end of World War II have given rise to controversy.[55][56][57][58 Any other sources which should also be accessed? ______ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: Aida Kraus To: GBHS ; Laurence Krupnak Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:09 AM Subject: Literature on Expulsion I can highly recommend all the writings of this internationally trained Diplomat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred-Maurice_de_Zayas Aida

If a person doesn't like the Zayas book ( personally I feel it's very well written and I agree with majority of the findings) then read the book "Documents on the Expulsion of the Sudeten Germans by Dr. William turnwald". It is a very hard government read because it is so sterile in its style of writing. I believe it was a government study done not by Germany and it will break your heart. This English version of this book if from 1953 I think so it was not written lately to try and get the history of this occurrence out now. Heinz Sent from my iPhone On Jul 11, 2012, at 8:32 AM, "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > Thanks Aida. However: > > While de Zayas' human rights publications largely reflect United Nations positions, his historical research and conclusions regarding the ethnic cleansing[54] of Germans from their native Land in East Germany and Eastern Europe at the end of World War II have given rise to controversy.[55][56][57][58 > > > Any other sources which should also be accessed? > > > > ______ > > Lavrentiy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aida Kraus > To: GBHS ; Laurence Krupnak > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:09 AM > Subject: Literature on Expulsion > > > I can highly recommend all the writings of this internationally trained Diplomat: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred-Maurice_de_Zayas > Aida > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To me this seems like a lot of "chat" but very little historical evidence, I think the You tube presentations are more factual. Aida On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net>wrote: > > > / > > Want to contribute?: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II > > ______ > > Lavrentiy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:00 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Expulsion discussions > > > > Example expulsion discussions: > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AExpulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II/Archive_10 > > > > > > > > _______ > > > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:32 AM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue > > 109 > > > > > >> Hi Brandt, > >> > >> There are many books, papers, etc. on the subject. It is critical > >> to read information from all perspectives: expellee and expellee > >> organizations, Czech point-of-view, etc. > >> > >> Anybody have recommendations about references which have a > >> "neutral" bias? > >> > >> ________ > >> > >> Lavrentiy > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Brandt Gibson" <ironhide781@hotmail.com> > >> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:10 PM > >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue > >> 109 > >> > >> > >>> > >>> I only learned of the expulsion recently through this mailing list. > >>> Are there any books on the expulsion? My ancestors lived in the > >>> Rosshaupt/Strobl/Zirk area, so anything about that area would be of > >>> interest to me, before or after the expulsion. Thanks, Brandt > >>> > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com > >>>> Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > >>>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:49:19 -0600 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > >>>> Today's Topics: > >>>> > >>>> 1. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) > >>>> 2. Malinak from Halenkov (dcuillard@aol.com) > >>>> 3. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (fslocum@accelplus.net) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> Message: 1 > >>>> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:49:46 -0400 > >>>> From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>>> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >>>> Message-ID: <820E72FB59024BADB2A2712499002536@user45c476a8b6> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >>>> > >>>> Marg and Frank, > >>>> > >>>> I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, > >>>> very, > >>>> very, very, etc. small number of people who do that. > >>>> > >>>> ________ > >>>> > >>>> Lavrentiy > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: Marg McEuen > >>>> To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and > >>>> Aida. I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal > >>>> Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near > >>>> Lestkov) and sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far > >>>> because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, > >>>> too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. > >>>> for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on > >>>> around them. > >>>> > >>>> None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I > >>>> do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out > >>>> what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My > >>>> paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was > >>>> just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her > >>>> about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very > >>>> much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, > >>>> as > >>>> her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the USA by > >>>> 1887. > >>>> > >>>> I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and > >>>> your personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of > >>>> the > >>>> history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so > >>>> much > >>>> for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg > >>>> McEuen > >>>> > >>>> --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net > >>>> <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family > >>>> activities, and > >>>> like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the > >>>> source. When it > >>>> crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes > >>>> more difficult. > >>>> > >>>> I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations > >>>> prior. I also know > >>>> there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and > >>>> witnessed his will. > >>>> But what happened to them from 1870 on? > >>>> > >>>> A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village > >>>> near > >>>> Karlsbad and > >>>> took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone > >>>> except for flowers, > >>>> grasses and a well spot. > >>>> > >>>> In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there > >>>> an > >>>> see it for > >>>> myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and > >>>> the > >>>> other for his > >>>> grave marker. > >>>> > >>>> Frank Heidl Slocum > >>>> Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > >>>> > >>>> > / > >>>> > Not many people are interested in serious historical > >>>> and genealogical > >>>> > research. Many people have a passing interest, but > >>>> they > >>>> don't get > >>>> > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just > >>>> want to punch a > >>>> > name in a computer database and get their genealogy > >>>> back > >>>> to Adam and > >>>> > Eve. > >>>> > > >>>> > ______ > >>>> > > >>>> > Laurence > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > From: Aida Kraus > >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>>> expulsion > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, > >>>> because ancestors > >>>> > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion > >>>> lists, court > >>>> > documents, witness reports, property records are all > >>>> part > >>>> of this and > >>>> > present valuable information material for genealogical > >>>> research. If > >>>> > you do not know history, how can you possibly find > >>>> your > >>>> roots? The > >>>> > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter > >>>> how > >>>> long it takes. > >>>> > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply > >>>> could not find a > >>>> > link to a family member. The person she was looking > >>>> for > >>>> "did not > >>>> > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was > >>>> tenacious. > >>>> In the end she > >>>> > found out why he did not exist in any records of her > >>>> family. ...... > >>>> > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > >>>> > So, I guess, we have to get our head around > >>>> these > >>>> "unpleasant > >>>> > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the > >>>> second world > >>>> > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be > >>>> a > >>>> one sided > >>>> > deal, my friends! > >>>> > It hits home, when a transgression highly > >>>> censured is returned by > >>>> > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It > >>>> makes > >>>> us look > >>>> > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know > >>>> that we > >>>> > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. > >>>> Genocide is > >>>> > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we > >>>> will find > >>>> > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR > >>>> HISTORY > >>>> > Aida > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>>> <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > / > >>>> > > >>>> > Hello Aida, > >>>> > > >>>> > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" > >>>> existed, but a small > >>>> > number of people read the literature. Not many people > >>>> are > >>>> > interested in the past. > >>>> > > >>>> > _______ > >>>> > > >>>> > Laurence > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > From: Aida Kraus > >>>> > > >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; > >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>>> expulsion > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published > >>>> in > >>>> the Holocaust > >>>> > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg > >>>> trials in a > >>>> > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but > >>>> what came > >>>> > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into > >>>> any > >>>> press and > >>>> > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is > >>>> just now > >>>> > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part > >>>> of > >>>> history. > >>>> > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not > >>>> more so. > >>>> > Aida > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > / > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > Do data exist for the number of Germans > >>>> who > >>>> resided in the > >>>> > places > >>>> > that you described who either joined or were > >>>> conscripted in Nazi > >>>> > military and they themselves committed > >>>> attrocities? Any memoirs > >>>> > or > >>>> > letters of admission or regret on what they or > >>>> Germany did? > >>>> > > >>>> > _____ > >>>> > > >>>> > Lavrentiy > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > >>>> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >>>> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>>> expulsion > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > This is a witness report of people who have > >>>> gone through the > >>>> > cruelty > >>>> > > of > >>>> > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a > >>>> document called > >>>> > "Whitebook" > >>>> > > and > >>>> > > contains legal witness records kept in the > >>>> files at Bonn by the > >>>> > > German > >>>> > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. > >>>> However, they should > >>>> > have > >>>> > > published it as part of truthful reporting of > >>>> history after the > >>>> > > homeless > >>>> > > had declared their Charter. You will find > >>>> that > >>>> charter on the > >>>> > link > >>>> > > listed > >>>> > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us > >>>> Germans who have lost > >>>> > their > >>>> > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled > >>>> persons and their > >>>> > deaths > >>>> > > have > >>>> > > never been fully established. They were > >>>> living > >>>> for centuries (in > >>>> > some > >>>> > > cases > >>>> > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, > >>>> Lithuania, > >>>> > Estonia, > >>>> > > Latvia, > >>>> > > Ukraine, the different states of the former > >>>> Yugoslavia, > >>>> > Czechoslovakia > >>>> > > and > >>>> > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass > >>>> transports, mass > >>>> > > executions, > >>>> > > rapes and sadistic tortures between > >>>> 1945-1947, > >>>> up to two years > >>>> > after > >>>> > > the > >>>> > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are > >>>> found from time to > >>>> > time > >>>> > > even > >>>> > > now at construction excavations but creates > >>>> just a minimum of > >>>> > > publicity, > >>>> > > because it was so horrendous that even the > >>>> victims would rather > >>>> > > forget. > >>>> > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the > >>>> date of the > >>>> > Charter.... > >>>> > > just > >>>> > > 5 years after the war when wound of our > >>>> losses > >>>> were still fresh: > >>>> > > > >>>> http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > >>>> > > Aida > >>>> > > > >>>> > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, > >>>> <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >>>> > > > >>>> > >> Aida, > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> I found this while researching family > >>>> members > >>>> from Freiwaldau. > >>>> > What > >>>> > >> is > >>>> > >> your opinion of this. > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding > >>>> propaganda and would > >>>> > like to > >>>> > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> Cathy > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > >> ------------------------------- > >>>> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>>> email to > >>>> > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with > >>>> the > >>>> word > >>>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > >> without > >>>> > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of > >>>> the > >>>> message > >>>> > >> > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > > ------------------------------- > >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>>> email to > >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the > >>>> word 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the > >>>> body > >>>> of the message > >>>> > > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > ------------------------------- > >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>>> email to > >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>>> 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>>> message > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > ------------------------------- > >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > >>>> to > >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>>> 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>>> message > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > ------------------------------- > >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>>> 'unsubscribe' without > >>>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> ------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> Message: 2 > >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:55:55 -0400 (EDT) > >>>> From: dcuillard@aol.com > >>>> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov > >>>> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> Message-ID: <8CF2C027534F63C-8B4-EB1@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the > >>>> Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. > >>>> Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he > >>>> and his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Donna > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> Message: 3 > >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) > >>>> From: fslocum@accelplus.net > >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>>> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > >>>> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> Message-ID: > >>>> <49414.97.97.3.169.1341852546.squirrel@secure.accelplus.net> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > >>>> > >>>> Lavrentiy, I consider this curious effort the worlds largest jigsaw > >>>> puzzle. It is in my basic curiosity make up. Sometimes I find a > >>>> piece and > >>>> know it fits someplace but must find the adjoining piece first. > >>>> This > >>>> puzzle is a 360 degree puzzle. > >>>> > >>>> Frank > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Marg and Frank, > >>>> > > >>>> > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, > >>>> > very, very, > >>>> > very, etc. small number of people who do that. > >>>> > > >>>> > ________ > >>>> > > >>>> > Lavrentiy > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > From: Marg McEuen > >>>> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank > >>>> > and > >>>> > Aida. > >>>> > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, > >>>> > Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and > >>>> > sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of > >>>> > health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try > >>>> > to > >>>> > find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as > >>>> > many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around > >>>> > them. > >>>> > > >>>> > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but > >>>> > I > >>>> > do try > >>>> > to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what > >>>> > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My > >>>> > paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was > >>>> > just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her > >>>> > about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would > >>>> > very > >>>> > much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one > >>>> > aunt, > >>>> > as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the > >>>> > USA by 1887. > >>>> > > >>>> > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and > >>>> > your > >>>> > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the > >>>> > history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so > >>>> > much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. > >>>> > Marg > >>>> > McEuen > >>>> > > >>>> > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net > >>>> > <fslocum@accelplus.net> > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > >>>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > >>>> > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > >>>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family > >>>> > activities, and > >>>> > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the > >>>> > source. > >>>> > When it > >>>> > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all > >>>> > becomes > >>>> > more > >>>> > difficult. > >>>> > > >>>> > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations > >>>> > prior. I > >>>> > also know > >>>> > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and > >>>> > witnessed > >>>> > his will. > >>>> > But what happened to them from 1870 on? > >>>> > > >>>> > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village > >>>> > near > >>>> > Karlsbad and > >>>> > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone > >>>> > except > >>>> > for flowers, > >>>> > grasses and a well spot. > >>>> > > >>>> > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there > >>>> > an see > >>>> > it for > >>>> > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and > >>>> > the > >>>> > other for his > >>>> > grave marker. > >>>> > > >>>> > Frank Heidl Slocum > >>>> > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > >>>> > > >>>> > > / > >>>> > > Not many people are interested in serious > >>>> > historical > >>>> > and > >>>> > genealogical > >>>> > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but > >>>> > they don't > >>>> > get > >>>> > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They > >>>> > just > >>>> > want to > >>>> > punch a > >>>> > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy > >>>> > back to > >>>> > Adam and > >>>> > > Eve. > >>>> > > > >>>> > > ______ > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Laurence > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > > From: Aida Kraus > >>>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>>> > expulsion > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, > >>>> > because > >>>> > ancestors > >>>> > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion > >>>> > lists, > >>>> > court > >>>> > > documents, witness reports, property records are all > >>>> > part of > >>>> > this and > >>>> > > present valuable information material for > >>>> > genealogical > >>>> > research. If > >>>> > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find > >>>> > your > >>>> > roots? The > >>>> > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter > >>>> > how long > >>>> > it takes. > >>>> > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who > >>>> > simply > >>>> > could > >>>> > not find a > >>>> > > link to a family member. The person she was looking > >>>> > for "did > >>>> > not > >>>> > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was > >>>> > tenacious. In > >>>> > the end she > >>>> > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her > >>>> > family. > >>>> > ...... > >>>> > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > >>>> > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around > >>>> > these > >>>> > "unpleasant > >>>> > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the > >>>> > second > >>>> > world > >>>> > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to > >>>> > be > >>>> > a one > >>>> > sided > >>>> > > deal, my friends! > >>>> > > It hits home, when a transgression highly > >>>> > censured is > >>>> > returned by > >>>> > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It > >>>> > makes us > >>>> > look > >>>> > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we > >>>> > know > >>>> > that we > >>>> > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. > >>>> > Genocide is > >>>> > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that > >>>> > we > >>>> > will > >>>> > find > >>>> > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR > >>>> > HISTORY > >>>> > > Aida > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak > >>>> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > >>>> > > wrote: > >>>> > > > >>>> > > / > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Hello Aida, > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" > >>>> > existed, but > >>>> > a small > >>>> > > number of people read the literature. Not many people > >>>> > are > >>>> > > interested in the past. > >>>> > > > >>>> > > _______ > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Laurence > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > > From: Aida Kraus > >>>> > > > >>>> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; > >>>> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > >>>> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>>> > expulsion > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely > >>>> > published > >>>> > in the > >>>> > Holocaust > >>>> > > papers and many other documentation from the > >>>> > Nuremberg > >>>> > trials > >>>> > in a > >>>> > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... > >>>> > but > >>>> > what > >>>> > came > >>>> > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into > >>>> > any press > >>>> > and > >>>> > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It > >>>> > is > >>>> > just > >>>> > now > >>>> > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part > >>>> > of > >>>> > history. > >>>> > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not > >>>> > more so. > >>>> > > Aida > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence > >>>> > Krupnak > >>>> > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > >>>> > > > >>>> > > / > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Do data exist for the number of Germans > >>>> > who > >>>> > resided in the > >>>> > > places > >>>> > > that you described who either joined or were > >>>> > conscripted in Nazi > >>>> > > military and they themselves committed > >>>> > attrocities? > >>>> > Any memoirs > >>>> > > or > >>>> > > letters of admission or regret on what they > >>>> > or > >>>> > Germany > >>>> > did? > >>>> > > > >>>> > > _____ > >>>> > > > >>>> > > Lavrentiy > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > >>>> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > >>>> > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > >>>> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > >>>> > expulsion > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > This is a witness report of people who have > >>>> > gone > >>>> > through the > >>>> > > cruelty > >>>> > > > of > >>>> > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a > >>>> > document > >>>> > called > >>>> > > "Whitebook" > >>>> > > > and > >>>> > > > contains legal witness records kept in the > >>>> > files at > >>>> > Bonn by the > >>>> > > > German > >>>> > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. > >>>> > However, > >>>> > they should > >>>> > > have > >>>> > > > published it as part of truthful reporting > >>>> > of > >>>> > history after the > >>>> > > > homeless > >>>> > > > had declared their Charter. You will find > >>>> > that > >>>> > charter on the > >>>> > > link > >>>> > > > listed > >>>> > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us > >>>> > Germans > >>>> > who have lost > >>>> > > their > >>>> > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of > >>>> > expelled > >>>> > persons > >>>> > and their > >>>> > > deaths > >>>> > > > have > >>>> > > > never been fully established. They were > >>>> > living for > >>>> > centuries (in > >>>> > > some > >>>> > > > cases > >>>> > > > as natives) in countries which is now > >>>> > Poland, > >>>> > Lithuania, > >>>> > > Estonia, > >>>> > > > Latvia, > >>>> > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former > >>>> > Yugoslavia, > >>>> > > Czechoslovakia > >>>> > > > and > >>>> > > > others, and their deaths were caused by > >>>> > mass > >>>> > transports, mass > >>>> > > > executions, > >>>> > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between > >>>> > 1945-1947, up to > >>>> > two years > >>>> > > after > >>>> > > > the > >>>> > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people > >>>> > are > >>>> > found > >>>> > from time to > >>>> > > time > >>>> > > > even > >>>> > > > now at construction excavations but > >>>> > creates > >>>> > just a > >>>> > minimum of > >>>> > > > publicity, > >>>> > > > because it was so horrendous that even the > >>>> > victims > >>>> > would rather > >>>> > > > forget. > >>>> > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice > >>>> > the > >>>> > date of > >>>> > the > >>>> > > Charter.... > >>>> > > > just > >>>> > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our > >>>> > losses were > >>>> > still fresh: > >>>> > > > > >>>> > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > >>>> > > > Aida > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, > >>>> > <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > >> Aida, > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> I found this while researching family > >>>> > members from > >>>> > Freiwaldau. > >>>> > > What > >>>> > > >> is > >>>> > > >> your opinion of this. > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding > >>>> > propaganda > >>>> > and would > >>>> > > like to > >>>> > > >> know what's what. Thanks. > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> Cathy > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > > >> ------------------------------- > >>>> > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send > >>>> > an > >>>> > email > >>>> > to > >>>> > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with > >>>> > the word > >>>> > > 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > > >> without > >>>> > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of > >>>> > the > >>>> > message > >>>> > > >> > >>>> > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > > > ------------------------------- > >>>> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send > >>>> > an > >>>> > email > >>>> > to > >>>> > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with > >>>> > the > >>>> > word > >>>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > > > without the quotes in the subject and the > >>>> > body of > >>>> > the message > >>>> > > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > > ------------------------------- > >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>>> > email to > >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>>> > message > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > > ------------------------------- > >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > >>>> > email > >>>> > to > >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>>> > 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>>> > message > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > > ------------------------------- > >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >>>> > 'unsubscribe' without > >>>> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > ------------------------------- > >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > > >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>>> > ------------------------------- > >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>>> > without > >>>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to > >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > >>>> > >>>> To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an > >>>> email > >>>> to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. > >>>> > >>>> __________________________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com > >>>> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and > >>>> the > >>>> body of the > >>>> email with no additional text. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > >>>> *********************************************** > >>> > >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Brandt, There are many books, papers, etc. on the subject. It is critical to read information from all perspectives: expellee and expellee organizations, Czech point-of-view, etc. Anybody have recommendations about references which have a "neutral" bias? ________ Lavrentiy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandt Gibson" <ironhide781@hotmail.com> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > > I only learned of the expulsion recently through this mailing list. > Are there any books on the expulsion? My ancestors lived in the > Rosshaupt/Strobl/Zirk area, so anything about that area would be of > interest to me, before or after the expulsion. Thanks, Brandt > > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com >> Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 >> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:49:19 -0600 >> >> >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) >> 2. Malinak from Halenkov (dcuillard@aol.com) >> 3. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (fslocum@accelplus.net) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:49:46 -0400 >> From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >> To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >> Message-ID: <820E72FB59024BADB2A2712499002536@user45c476a8b6> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Marg and Frank, >> >> I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, very, >> very, very, etc. small number of people who do that. >> >> ________ >> >> Lavrentiy >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marg McEuen >> To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >> >> >> I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and >> Aida. I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal >> Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near >> Lestkov) and sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far >> because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, >> too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. >> for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on >> around them. >> >> None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I >> do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out >> what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My >> paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was >> just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her >> about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very >> much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, as >> her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the USA by >> 1887. >> >> I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and >> your personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the >> history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so much >> for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg McEuen >> >> --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net >> <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: >> >> >> From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >> Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM >> >> >> lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family >> activities, and >> like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the >> source. When it >> crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes >> more difficult. >> >> I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations >> prior. I also know >> there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and >> witnessed his will. >> But what happened to them from 1870 on? >> >> A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village near >> Karlsbad and >> took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone >> except for flowers, >> grasses and a well spot. >> >> In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an >> see it for >> myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and the >> other for his >> grave marker. >> >> Frank Heidl Slocum >> Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl >> >> > / >> > Not many people are interested in serious historical >> and genealogical >> > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they >> don't get >> > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just >> want to punch a >> > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back >> to Adam and >> > Eve. >> > >> > ______ >> > >> > Laurence >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Aida Kraus >> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >> > >> > >> > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, >> because ancestors >> > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion >> lists, court >> > documents, witness reports, property records are all part >> of this and >> > present valuable information material for genealogical >> research. If >> > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your >> roots? The >> > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how >> long it takes. >> > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply >> could not find a >> > link to a family member. The person she was looking for >> "did not >> > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. >> In the end she >> > found out why he did not exist in any records of her >> family. ...... >> > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. >> > So, I guess, we have to get our head around these >> "unpleasant >> > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the >> second world >> > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a >> one sided >> > deal, my friends! >> > It hits home, when a transgression highly >> censured is returned by >> > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes >> us look >> > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know >> that we >> > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. >> Genocide is >> > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we >> will find >> > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY >> > Aida >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak >> <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >> > wrote: >> > >> > / >> > >> > Hello Aida, >> > >> > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" >> existed, but a small >> > number of people read the literature. Not many people are >> > interested in the past. >> > >> > _______ >> > >> > Laurence >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Aida Kraus >> > >> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >> expulsion >> > >> > >> > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in >> the Holocaust >> > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg >> trials in a >> > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but >> what came >> > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any >> press and >> > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is >> just now >> > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of >> history. >> > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not >> more so. >> > Aida >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak >> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: >> > >> > / >> > >> > >> > Do data exist for the number of Germans who >> resided in the >> > places >> > that you described who either joined or were >> conscripted in Nazi >> > military and they themselves committed >> attrocities? Any memoirs >> > or >> > letters of admission or regret on what they or >> Germany did? >> > >> > _____ >> > >> > Lavrentiy >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> >> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >> expulsion >> > >> > >> > > This is a witness report of people who have >> gone through the >> > cruelty >> > > of >> > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a >> document called >> > "Whitebook" >> > > and >> > > contains legal witness records kept in the >> files at Bonn by the >> > > German >> > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. >> However, they should >> > have >> > > published it as part of truthful reporting of >> history after the >> > > homeless >> > > had declared their Charter. You will find that >> charter on the >> > link >> > > listed >> > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us >> Germans who have lost >> > their >> > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled >> persons and their >> > deaths >> > > have >> > > never been fully established. They were living >> for centuries (in >> > some >> > > cases >> > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, >> Lithuania, >> > Estonia, >> > > Latvia, >> > > Ukraine, the different states of the former >> Yugoslavia, >> > Czechoslovakia >> > > and >> > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass >> transports, mass >> > > executions, >> > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, >> up to two years >> > after >> > > the >> > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are >> found from time to >> > time >> > > even >> > > now at construction excavations but creates >> just a minimum of >> > > publicity, >> > > because it was so horrendous that even the >> victims would rather >> > > forget. >> > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the >> date of the >> > Charter.... >> > > just >> > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses >> were still fresh: >> > > >> http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 >> > > Aida >> > > >> > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, >> <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: >> > > >> > >> Aida, >> > >> >> > >> I found this while researching family members >> from Freiwaldau. >> > What >> > >> is >> > >> your opinion of this. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >> > >> >> > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding >> propaganda and would >> > like to >> > >> know what's what. Thanks. >> > >> >> > >> Cathy >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > >> ------------------------------- >> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >> email to >> > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the >> word >> > 'unsubscribe' >> > >> without >> > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> > >> >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >> email to >> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the >> word 'unsubscribe' >> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body >> of the message >> > >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >> email to >> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> > >> > >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> > >> > >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:55:55 -0400 (EDT) >> From: dcuillard@aol.com >> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov >> To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: <8CF2C027534F63C-8B4-EB1@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >> >> Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the >> Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. >> Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he >> and his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. >> Thanks, >> Donna >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) >> From: fslocum@accelplus.net >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >> To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >> german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: >> <49414.97.97.3.169.1341852546.squirrel@secure.accelplus.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Lavrentiy, I consider this curious effort the worlds largest jigsaw >> puzzle. It is in my basic curiosity make up. Sometimes I find a >> piece and >> know it fits someplace but must find the adjoining piece first. This >> puzzle is a 360 degree puzzle. >> >> Frank >> >> >> > Marg and Frank, >> > >> > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, >> > very, very, >> > very, etc. small number of people who do that. >> > >> > ________ >> > >> > Lavrentiy >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Marg McEuen >> > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >> > >> > >> > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and >> > Aida. >> > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, >> > Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and >> > sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of >> > health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try to >> > find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as >> > many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around >> > them. >> > >> > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I >> > do try >> > to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what >> > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My >> > paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was >> > just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her >> > about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very >> > much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, >> > as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the >> > USA by 1887. >> > >> > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and >> > your >> > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the >> > history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so >> > much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg >> > McEuen >> > >> > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net >> > <fslocum@accelplus.net> >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion >> > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, >> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >> > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM >> > >> > >> > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family >> > activities, and >> > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the >> > source. >> > When it >> > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes >> > more >> > difficult. >> > >> > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations >> > prior. I >> > also know >> > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and >> > witnessed >> > his will. >> > But what happened to them from 1870 on? >> > >> > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village >> > near >> > Karlsbad and >> > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone >> > except >> > for flowers, >> > grasses and a well spot. >> > >> > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there >> > an see >> > it for >> > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and >> > the >> > other for his >> > grave marker. >> > >> > Frank Heidl Slocum >> > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl >> > >> > > / >> > > Not many people are interested in serious historical >> > and >> > genealogical >> > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but >> > they don't >> > get >> > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just >> > want to >> > punch a >> > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy >> > back to >> > Adam and >> > > Eve. >> > > >> > > ______ >> > > >> > > Laurence >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: Aida Kraus >> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM >> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >> > expulsion >> > > >> > > >> > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, >> > because >> > ancestors >> > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion >> > lists, >> > court >> > > documents, witness reports, property records are all >> > part of >> > this and >> > > present valuable information material for genealogical >> > research. If >> > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find >> > your >> > roots? The >> > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter >> > how long >> > it takes. >> > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply >> > could >> > not find a >> > > link to a family member. The person she was looking >> > for "did >> > not >> > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was >> > tenacious. In >> > the end she >> > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her >> > family. >> > ...... >> > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. >> > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around >> > these >> > "unpleasant >> > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the >> > second >> > world >> > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be >> > a one >> > sided >> > > deal, my friends! >> > > It hits home, when a transgression highly >> > censured is >> > returned by >> > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It >> > makes us >> > look >> > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know >> > that we >> > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. >> > Genocide is >> > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we >> > will >> > find >> > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR >> > HISTORY >> > > Aida >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak >> > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > / >> > > >> > > Hello Aida, >> > > >> > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" >> > existed, but >> > a small >> > > number of people read the literature. Not many people >> > are >> > > interested in the past. >> > > >> > > _______ >> > > >> > > Laurence >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: Aida Kraus >> > > >> > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; >> > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com >> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM >> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >> > expulsion >> > > >> > > >> > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published >> > in the >> > Holocaust >> > > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg >> > trials >> > in a >> > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but >> > what >> > came >> > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into >> > any press >> > and >> > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is >> > just >> > now >> > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part >> > of >> > history. >> > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not >> > more so. >> > > Aida >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak >> > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: >> > > >> > > / >> > > >> > > >> > > Do data exist for the number of Germans >> > who >> > resided in the >> > > places >> > > that you described who either joined or were >> > conscripted in Nazi >> > > military and they themselves committed >> > attrocities? >> > Any memoirs >> > > or >> > > letters of admission or regret on what they or >> > Germany >> > did? >> > > >> > > _____ >> > > >> > > Lavrentiy >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> >> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> >> > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM >> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: >> > expulsion >> > > >> > > >> > > > This is a witness report of people who have >> > gone >> > through the >> > > cruelty >> > > > of >> > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a >> > document >> > called >> > > "Whitebook" >> > > > and >> > > > contains legal witness records kept in the >> > files at >> > Bonn by the >> > > > German >> > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. >> > However, >> > they should >> > > have >> > > > published it as part of truthful reporting of >> > history after the >> > > > homeless >> > > > had declared their Charter. You will find >> > that >> > charter on the >> > > link >> > > > listed >> > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us >> > Germans >> > who have lost >> > > their >> > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled >> > persons >> > and their >> > > deaths >> > > > have >> > > > never been fully established. They were >> > living for >> > centuries (in >> > > some >> > > > cases >> > > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, >> > Lithuania, >> > > Estonia, >> > > > Latvia, >> > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former >> > Yugoslavia, >> > > Czechoslovakia >> > > > and >> > > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass >> > transports, mass >> > > > executions, >> > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between >> > 1945-1947, up to >> > two years >> > > after >> > > > the >> > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are >> > found >> > from time to >> > > time >> > > > even >> > > > now at construction excavations but creates >> > just a >> > minimum of >> > > > publicity, >> > > > because it was so horrendous that even the >> > victims >> > would rather >> > > > forget. >> > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the >> > date of >> > the >> > > Charter.... >> > > > just >> > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our >> > losses were >> > still fresh: >> > > > >> > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 >> > > > Aida >> > > > >> > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, >> > <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > > >> Aida, >> > > >> >> > > >> I found this while researching family >> > members from >> > Freiwaldau. >> > > What >> > > >> is >> > > >> your opinion of this. >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html >> > > >> >> > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding >> > propaganda >> > and would >> > > like to >> > > >> know what's what. Thanks. >> > > >> >> > > >> Cathy >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > > >> ------------------------------- >> > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >> > email >> > to >> > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with >> > the word >> > > 'unsubscribe' >> > > >> without >> > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of >> > the >> > message >> > > >> >> > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > > > ------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >> > email >> > to >> > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the >> > word >> > 'unsubscribe' >> > > > without the quotes in the subject and the >> > body of >> > the message >> > > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an >> > email to >> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > 'unsubscribe' >> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> > message >> > > >> > > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >> > to >> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > 'unsubscribe' >> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> > message >> > > >> > > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > 'unsubscribe' without >> > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > >> > >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. >> >> To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an email >> to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the >> body of the >> email with no additional text. >> >> >> End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 >> *********************************************** > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Here are some: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wmpnK3t7Ow&feature=related On a mixed marriage German and Czech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDoqm_3D3V4 and a film from the Czech side: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxrzfqEKui4 You can probably click on the other film strips as well that will come up on You tube (on the right side). These are all recent recognitions we can find now on the Internet. Aida

This was a wonderful film, Lawrentiy, but it is not what our readership is researching. What the descendants of the German Bohemians are looking for - and let me remind you, they came to this country (late 1800) when their country was still Austria. They have no ethnic sensitivity or involvement of what happened after the turn of the century back in their homeland. They came from a country when Germans and Czechs were both Austrians. But now, looking for their roots, they try to find the old homeland, their houses, and therefore, they are looking for relatives who remained at home and find that their places often were bulldozed over. They realize that their kin was affected by the Expulsion from German Bohemia because there hardly exists any media on this chapter in history. It was literally swept under the carpet. The affected group was far too silent about their martyrdom (except those few who posted witness reports now captured in the White Book). But their stories present in reality the historical balance of what really happened. You cannot write history from just one side. In my opinion, it is even more shameful that the same acts that were criticized were then repeated. Of course, that could be understood as "revanche." But to repeat and trump was had been abhorred to begin with, that does not speak well for any of us, the "human kind".... Memorials of BOTH sides standing side by side will put a shame on those who let it happen. And I am not even sure that we have learned from it looking to what is going on in the East right now. Going back to the after year wars in Europe, the feeling of the German Bohemian group is quite similar to those individuals who came back from the horrors of Siberian gulags. They simply do not want to be reminded of it anymore. They rolled up their sleeves, faced facts and rebuilt their lives very productively in another country. It is their own NEXT generation who are digging it up, because they cannot understand how the situation even developed. They have a lack of historical understanding, because THAT part was never taught in school. It is now the FIRST time they are encountering it just by chance. There are families that were victims of either one or the other side. A case in point is the tragedy people encountered in Luxemburg, for instance. They were incorporated into the German Reich under Hitler, and while some of their population had great advantages of financial benefits by being annexed, most of them were exploited as cannon fodder. After the war they found themselves as "German" prisoners in Russia and some of them also wound up in gulags, since they wore a German uniform. Most of the suffering people find themselves in very hurtful situations not of their making, and that must be understood. We cannot condemn people willy nilly just because they wear a uniform, we have to ask, HOW DID THEY GET IN THAT UNIFORM!!! All of the men during that time were drafted, not very many joined voluntarily. While most of the populace disliked any connection to the NAZI Regime, for instance, the Luxemburgers equally disliked to be dominated by France, just as the Germans in Bohemia disliked to be dominated by the Czechs. There was no global conscience at that time as yet. Luxemburgers like Sudetengermans have their own ethnic identity and language, and since the requested autonomy was denied them, political issue arises which are "fired" up quite often from the "outside of the country. I believe that your Rusyns had the same dilemma being wedged between East and West. I will look to see if they have something on You Tube. Aida On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net>wrote: > / > > Waiting for the train: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PFlQHPuX0k&feature=relmfu > > > at the 2:00 min. mark > > ________ > > Lavrentiy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:00 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] mode of travel in 1859? > > > > Yes, Gary, railroad services were available at that time of your > > ancestral > > emigration. They started to build railroads in 1835 and it was in > > full > > swing by 1841. Read this: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Germany > > Aida > > > > On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:39 AM, Gary Wiltscheck > > <garywilt@newulmtel.net>wrote: > > > >> Does anyone have any idea what the mode of travel was for emigrating > >> Bohemians travelling to Bremen, Germany in 1859? > >> > >> Could rail service have been in place by then? > >> > >> I've seen an early map of Europe railroads but not sure of the years. > >> > >> Any help would be appreciated. > >> > >> Thanks, Gary Wiltscheck > >> > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Does anyone have any idea what the mode of travel was for emigrating Bohemians travelling to Bremen, Germany in 1859? Could rail service have been in place by then? I've seen an early map of Europe railroads but not sure of the years. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Gary Wiltscheck

I can highly recommend all the writings of this internationally trained Diplomat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred-Maurice_de_Zayas <http://ww.genevadiplomacy.com/dr-alfred-de-zayas-appointed-independent-expert-promotion-democratic-and-equitable-international-ord> Aida

Yes, Gary, railroad services were available at that time of your ancestral emigration. They started to build railroads in 1835 and it was in full swing by 1841. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Germany Aida On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 7:39 AM, Gary Wiltscheck <garywilt@newulmtel.net>wrote: > Does anyone have any idea what the mode of travel was for emigrating > Bohemians travelling to Bremen, Germany in 1859? > > Could rail service have been in place by then? > > I've seen an early map of Europe railroads but not sure of the years. > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks, Gary Wiltscheck > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Brandt, you can go to this link and then scroll down to the names of individual cities. There are two catgories, major cities, and villages in the country side. I found one witness report on Rosshaupt . You will also notice that not only Germans were mistreated, but Czechs that remained with their families in the Sudetenland area. http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html Aida On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Brandt Gibson <ironhide781@hotmail.com>wrote: > > I only learned of the expulsion recently through this mailing list. Are > there any books on the expulsion? My ancestors lived in the > Rosshaupt/Strobl/Zirk area, so anything about that area would be of > interest to me, before or after the expulsion. Thanks, Brandt > > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com > > Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > > To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:49:19 -0600 > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) > > 2. Malinak from Halenkov (dcuillard@aol.com) > > 3. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (fslocum@accelplus.net) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:49:46 -0400 > > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > > Message-ID: <820E72FB59024BADB2A2712499002536@user45c476a8b6> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Marg and Frank, > > > > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, very, > very, very, etc. small number of people who do that. > > > > ________ > > > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Marg McEuen > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and Aida. > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, Theresia > Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and sent back pictures. > I am unable to travel so far because of health reasons, so this was very > much appreciated. I, too, try to find out what happened to siblings, > aunts, uncles, etc. for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was > going on around them. > > > > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I do > try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My paternal > grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was just out of high > school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her about why she immigrated to > Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very much like to know what happened to > one of her uncles and one aunt, as her parents, siblings and her other > uncles also came to the USA by 1887. > > > > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and your > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the history in > Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so much for all you do > in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg McEuen > > > > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > wrote: > > > > > > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > > > > > > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family > activities, and > > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the source. > When it > > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes more > difficult. > > > > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations prior. > I also know > > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and witnessed > his will. > > But what happened to them from 1870 on? > > > > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village near > Karlsbad and > > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone except > for flowers, > > grasses and a well spot. > > > > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an see > it for > > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and the > other for his > > grave marker. > > > > Frank Heidl Slocum > > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > > > > > / > > > Not many people are interested in serious historical and > genealogical > > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they > don't get > > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just want > to punch a > > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back to > Adam and > > > Eve. > > > > > > ______ > > > > > > Laurence > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Aida Kraus > > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > > > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, > because ancestors > > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion lists, > court > > > documents, witness reports, property records are all part of > this and > > > present valuable information material for genealogical > research. If > > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your > roots? The > > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how > long it takes. > > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply could > not find a > > > link to a family member. The person she was looking for > "did not > > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. In > the end she > > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her family. > ...... > > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around these > "unpleasant > > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the second > world > > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a > one sided > > > deal, my friends! > > > It hits home, when a transgression highly censured > is returned by > > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes us > look > > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know that > we > > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. Genocide > is > > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we will > find > > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY > > > Aida > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak < > LKrupnak@verizon.net> > > > wrote: > > > > > > / > > > > > > Hello Aida, > > > > > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, > but a small > > > number of people read the literature. Not many people are > > > interested in the past. > > > > > > _______ > > > > > > Laurence > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Aida Kraus > > > > > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in > the Holocaust > > > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg > trials in a > > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what > came > > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any > press and > > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is just > now > > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of > history. > > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more > so. > > > Aida > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > Do data exist for the number of Germans who > resided in the > > > places > > > that you described who either joined or were > conscripted in Nazi > > > military and they themselves committed attrocities? > Any memoirs > > > or > > > letters of admission or regret on what they or > Germany did? > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > expulsion > > > > > > > > > > This is a witness report of people who have gone > through the > > > cruelty > > > > of > > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document > called > > > "Whitebook" > > > > and > > > > contains legal witness records kept in the files > at Bonn by the > > > > German > > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. > However, they should > > > have > > > > published it as part of truthful reporting of > history after the > > > > homeless > > > > had declared their Charter. You will find that > charter on the > > > link > > > > listed > > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans > who have lost > > > their > > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled > persons and their > > > deaths > > > > have > > > > never been fully established. They were living for > centuries (in > > > some > > > > cases > > > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, > Lithuania, > > > Estonia, > > > > Latvia, > > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former > Yugoslavia, > > > Czechoslovakia > > > > and > > > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass > transports, mass > > > > executions, > > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up > to two years > > > after > > > > the > > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are > found from time to > > > time > > > > even > > > > now at construction excavations but creates just > a minimum of > > > > publicity, > > > > because it was so horrendous that even the victims > would rather > > > > forget. > > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date > of the > > > Charter.... > > > > just > > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses > were still fresh: > > > > > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > > > > Aida > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, < > miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Aida, > > > >> > > > >> I found this while researching family members > from Freiwaldau. > > > What > > > >> is > > > >> your opinion of this. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > > > >> > > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding > propaganda and would > > > like to > > > >> know what's what. Thanks. > > > >> > > > >> Cathy > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > >> ------------------------------- > > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the > word > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > >> without > > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > >> > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the > word 'unsubscribe' > > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:55:55 -0400 (EDT) > > From: dcuillard@aol.com > > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov > > To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > Message-ID: <8CF2C027534F63C-8B4-EB1@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > > > Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the > Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. > > Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he and > his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. > > Thanks, > > Donna > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) > > From: fslocum@accelplus.net > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > Message-ID: > > <49414.97.97.3.169.1341852546.squirrel@secure.accelplus.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > Lavrentiy, I consider this curious effort the worlds largest jigsaw > > puzzle. It is in my basic curiosity make up. Sometimes I find a piece > and > > know it fits someplace but must find the adjoining piece first. This > > puzzle is a 360 degree puzzle. > > > > Frank > > > > > > > Marg and Frank, > > > > > > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, very, > very, > > > very, etc. small number of people who do that. > > > > > > ________ > > > > > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Marg McEuen > > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > > > > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and > Aida. > > > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, > > > Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and > > > sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of > > > health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try to > > > find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as > > > many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around > > > them. > > > > > > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I do > try > > > to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what > > > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My > > > paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was > > > just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her > > > about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very > > > much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, > > > as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the > > > USA by 1887. > > > > > > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and your > > > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the > > > history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so > > > much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg > > > McEuen > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net < > fslocum@accelplus.net> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > > > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > > > > > > > > > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family > > > activities, and > > > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the source. > > > When it > > > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes more > > > difficult. > > > > > > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations > prior. I > > > also know > > > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and > witnessed > > > his will. > > > But what happened to them from 1870 on? > > > > > > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village near > > > Karlsbad and > > > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone except > > > for flowers, > > > grasses and a well spot. > > > > > > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an > see > > > it for > > > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and the > > > other for his > > > grave marker. > > > > > > Frank Heidl Slocum > > > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > > > > > > > / > > > > Not many people are interested in serious historical and > > > genealogical > > > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they > don't > > > get > > > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just > want to > > > punch a > > > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back to > > > Adam and > > > > Eve. > > > > > > > > ______ > > > > > > > > Laurence > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Aida Kraus > > > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, > because > > > ancestors > > > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion lists, > > > court > > > > documents, witness reports, property records are all part > of > > > this and > > > > present valuable information material for genealogical > > > research. If > > > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your > > > roots? The > > > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how > long > > > it takes. > > > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply > could > > > not find a > > > > link to a family member. The person she was looking for > "did > > > not > > > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. > In > > > the end she > > > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her > family. > > > ...... > > > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > > > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around these > > > "unpleasant > > > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the > second > > > world > > > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a > one > > > sided > > > > deal, my friends! > > > > It hits home, when a transgression highly censured > is > > > returned by > > > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes us > > > look > > > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know > that we > > > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. > Genocide is > > > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we will > > > find > > > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY > > > > Aida > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak > > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > Hello Aida, > > > > > > > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, > but > > > a small > > > > number of people read the literature. Not many people are > > > > interested in the past. > > > > > > > > _______ > > > > > > > > Laurence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Aida Kraus > > > > > > > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > expulsion > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in > the > > > Holocaust > > > > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg > trials > > > in a > > > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what > > > came > > > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any > press > > > and > > > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is > just > > > now > > > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of > > > history. > > > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more > so. > > > > Aida > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > > > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > > Do data exist for the number of Germans who > > > resided in the > > > > places > > > > that you described who either joined or were > > > conscripted in Nazi > > > > military and they themselves committed attrocities? > > > Any memoirs > > > > or > > > > letters of admission or regret on what they or > Germany > > > did? > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > > > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > > > expulsion > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a witness report of people who have gone > > > through the > > > > cruelty > > > > > of > > > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document > > > called > > > > "Whitebook" > > > > > and > > > > > contains legal witness records kept in the > files at > > > Bonn by the > > > > > German > > > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. > However, > > > they should > > > > have > > > > > published it as part of truthful reporting of > > > history after the > > > > > homeless > > > > > had declared their Charter. You will find that > > > charter on the > > > > link > > > > > listed > > > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans > > > who have lost > > > > their > > > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled > persons > > > and their > > > > deaths > > > > > have > > > > > never been fully established. They were living > for > > > centuries (in > > > > some > > > > > cases > > > > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, > > > Lithuania, > > > > Estonia, > > > > > Latvia, > > > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former > > > Yugoslavia, > > > > Czechoslovakia > > > > > and > > > > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass > > > transports, mass > > > > > executions, > > > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, > up to > > > two years > > > > after > > > > > the > > > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are > found > > > from time to > > > > time > > > > > even > > > > > now at construction excavations but creates > just a > > > minimum of > > > > > publicity, > > > > > because it was so horrendous that even the > victims > > > would rather > > > > > forget. > > > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the > date of > > > the > > > > Charter.... > > > > > just > > > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses > were > > > still fresh: > > > > > > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > > > > > Aida > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, > > > <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Aida, > > > > >> > > > > >> I found this while researching family members > from > > > Freiwaldau. > > > > What > > > > >> is > > > > >> your opinion of this. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > > > > >> > > > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding > propaganda > > > and would > > > > like to > > > > >> know what's what. Thanks. > > > > >> > > > > >> Cathy > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > >> ------------------------------- > > > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email > > > to > > > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the > word > > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > >> without > > > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > > message > > > > >> > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email > > > to > > > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the > word > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of > > > the message > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' without > > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > > > > To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com > > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the > > email with no additional text. > > > > > > End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > > *********************************************** > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I only learned of the expulsion recently through this mailing list. Are there any books on the expulsion? My ancestors lived in the Rosshaupt/Strobl/Zirk area, so anything about that area would be of interest to me, before or after the expulsion. Thanks, Brandt > From: german-bohemian-request@rootsweb.com > Subject: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 10:49:19 -0600 > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (Laurence Krupnak) > 2. Malinak from Halenkov (dcuillard@aol.com) > 3. Re: For Aida - re: expulsion (fslocum@accelplus.net) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 11:49:46 -0400 > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <820E72FB59024BADB2A2712499002536@user45c476a8b6> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Marg and Frank, > > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, very, very, very, etc. small number of people who do that. > > ________ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marg McEuen > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and Aida. I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try to find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around them. > > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I do try to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the USA by 1887. > > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and your personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg McEuen > > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> wrote: > > > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > > > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family activities, and > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the source. When it > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes more difficult. > > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations prior. I also know > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and witnessed his will. > But what happened to them from 1870 on? > > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village near Karlsbad and > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone except for flowers, > grasses and a well spot. > > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an see it for > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and the other for his > grave marker. > > Frank Heidl Slocum > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > > > / > > Not many people are interested in serious historical and genealogical > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they don't get > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just want to punch a > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back to Adam and > > Eve. > > > > ______ > > > > Laurence > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Aida Kraus > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, because ancestors > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion lists, court > > documents, witness reports, property records are all part of this and > > present valuable information material for genealogical research. If > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your roots? The > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how long it takes. > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply could not find a > > link to a family member. The person she was looking for "did not > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. In the end she > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her family. ...... > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around these "unpleasant > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the second world > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a one sided > > deal, my friends! > > It hits home, when a transgression highly censured is returned by > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes us look > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know that we > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. Genocide is > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we will find > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY > > Aida > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > > wrote: > > > > / > > > > Hello Aida, > > > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, but a small > > number of people read the literature. Not many people are > > interested in the past. > > > > _______ > > > > Laurence > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Aida Kraus > > > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the Holocaust > > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials in a > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what came > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any press and > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is just now > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of history. > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more so. > > Aida > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > / > > > > > > Do data exist for the number of Germans who resided in the > > places > > that you described who either joined or were conscripted in Nazi > > military and they themselves committed attrocities? Any memoirs > > or > > letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany did? > > > > _____ > > > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > > This is a witness report of people who have gone through the > > cruelty > > > of > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document called > > "Whitebook" > > > and > > > contains legal witness records kept in the files at Bonn by the > > > German > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, they should > > have > > > published it as part of truthful reporting of history after the > > > homeless > > > had declared their Charter. You will find that charter on the > > link > > > listed > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans who have lost > > their > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons and their > > deaths > > > have > > > never been fully established. They were living for centuries (in > > some > > > cases > > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, Lithuania, > > Estonia, > > > Latvia, > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former Yugoslavia, > > Czechoslovakia > > > and > > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass transports, mass > > > executions, > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to two years > > after > > > the > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found from time to > > time > > > even > > > now at construction excavations but creates just a minimum of > > > publicity, > > > because it was so horrendous that even the victims would rather > > > forget. > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of the > > Charter.... > > > just > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were still fresh: > > > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > > > Aida > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Aida, > > >> > > >> I found this while researching family members from Freiwaldau. > > What > > >> is > > >> your opinion of this. > > >> > > >> > > >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > > >> > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda and would > > like to > > >> know what's what. Thanks. > > >> > > >> Cathy > > >> > > >> > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > >> without > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 11:55:55 -0400 (EDT) > From: dcuillard@aol.com > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov > To: german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <8CF2C027534F63C-8B4-EB1@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. > Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he and his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. > Thanks, > Donna > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) > From: fslocum@accelplus.net > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <49414.97.97.3.169.1341852546.squirrel@secure.accelplus.net> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > Lavrentiy, I consider this curious effort the worlds largest jigsaw > puzzle. It is in my basic curiosity make up. Sometimes I find a piece and > know it fits someplace but must find the adjoining piece first. This > puzzle is a 360 degree puzzle. > > Frank > > > > Marg and Frank, > > > > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, very, very, > > very, etc. small number of people who do that. > > > > ________ > > > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Marg McEuen > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and Aida. > > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, > > Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and > > sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of > > health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try to > > find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as > > many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around > > them. > > > > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I do try > > to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what > > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My > > paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was > > just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her > > about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very > > much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, > > as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the > > USA by 1887. > > > > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and your > > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the > > history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so > > much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg > > McEuen > > > > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > > > > > > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family > > activities, and > > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the source. > > When it > > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes more > > difficult. > > > > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations prior. I > > also know > > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and witnessed > > his will. > > But what happened to them from 1870 on? > > > > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village near > > Karlsbad and > > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone except > > for flowers, > > grasses and a well spot. > > > > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an see > > it for > > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and the > > other for his > > grave marker. > > > > Frank Heidl Slocum > > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > > > > > / > > > Not many people are interested in serious historical and > > genealogical > > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they don't > > get > > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just want to > > punch a > > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back to > > Adam and > > > Eve. > > > > > > ______ > > > > > > Laurence > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Aida Kraus > > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > > > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, because > > ancestors > > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion lists, > > court > > > documents, witness reports, property records are all part of > > this and > > > present valuable information material for genealogical > > research. If > > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your > > roots? The > > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how long > > it takes. > > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply could > > not find a > > > link to a family member. The person she was looking for "did > > not > > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. In > > the end she > > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her family. > > ...... > > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around these > > "unpleasant > > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the second > > world > > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a one > > sided > > > deal, my friends! > > > It hits home, when a transgression highly censured is > > returned by > > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes us > > look > > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know that we > > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. Genocide is > > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we will > > find > > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY > > > Aida > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > > > wrote: > > > > > > / > > > > > > Hello Aida, > > > > > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, but > > a small > > > number of people read the literature. Not many people are > > > interested in the past. > > > > > > _______ > > > > > > Laurence > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Aida Kraus > > > > > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the > > Holocaust > > > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials > > in a > > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what > > came > > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any press > > and > > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is just > > now > > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of > > history. > > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more so. > > > Aida > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > Do data exist for the number of Germans who > > resided in the > > > places > > > that you described who either joined or were > > conscripted in Nazi > > > military and they themselves committed attrocities? > > Any memoirs > > > or > > > letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany > > did? > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > > expulsion > > > > > > > > > > This is a witness report of people who have gone > > through the > > > cruelty > > > > of > > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document > > called > > > "Whitebook" > > > > and > > > > contains legal witness records kept in the files at > > Bonn by the > > > > German > > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, > > they should > > > have > > > > published it as part of truthful reporting of > > history after the > > > > homeless > > > > had declared their Charter. You will find that > > charter on the > > > link > > > > listed > > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans > > who have lost > > > their > > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons > > and their > > > deaths > > > > have > > > > never been fully established. They were living for > > centuries (in > > > some > > > > cases > > > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, > > Lithuania, > > > Estonia, > > > > Latvia, > > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former > > Yugoslavia, > > > Czechoslovakia > > > > and > > > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass > > transports, mass > > > > executions, > > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to > > two years > > > after > > > > the > > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found > > from time to > > > time > > > > even > > > > now at construction excavations but creates just a > > minimum of > > > > publicity, > > > > because it was so horrendous that even the victims > > would rather > > > > forget. > > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of > > the > > > Charter.... > > > > just > > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were > > still fresh: > > > > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > > > > Aida > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, > > <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Aida, > > > >> > > > >> I found this while researching family members from > > Freiwaldau. > > > What > > > >> is > > > >> your opinion of this. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > > > >> > > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda > > and would > > > like to > > > >> know what's what. Thanks. > > > >> > > > >> Cathy > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > >> ------------------------------- > > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > > to > > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > >> without > > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > >> > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > > to > > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of > > the message > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN list administrator, send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the GERMAN-BOHEMIAN mailing list, send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 109 > ***********************************************

Thank you so much for the wonderful information. I did find one entry where he listed his first name as "Jan", but once he came to Texas he always went by "John". I will try the items you suggest. Thank you again! Donna -----Original Message----- From: Aida Kraus <draytonharbor@gmail.com> To: german-bohemian <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Jul 9, 2012 11:38 am Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov Dear Donna, the advice I can give you is to search for Halenkov in the Brno archives. Go to the acta publica link and click on Brno. Link can be found here: *Moravian Land Archive in Brno;* www.*actapublica*.eu Subsection: *Moravian* Land Archive in Brno, they may have combined it with the State Regional Archive in Plzeň by now. Halenkov is just inside the Moravian border abutting Slovakia and is actually not within the research parameter of our German Bohemian Group. You need better expertise for that particular area than we have to offer. But we can put you on your way. The area is almost 100% Czech where your ancestors came from. Malinak is a Czech name, but that does not mean that he was Czech, because you list his first name the German way, "Johannes", not "Jan" which is the Czech way. You will find his ethnicity in the Brno records by seeing if the records are written in Czech or in German. You may get better results if you participate at the rootsweb Moravian list by posting the same letter you wrote to the German Bohemian list. If that is not successful, you may contact the Austrian Genealogical group at this website: "Ing. Felix Gundacker" <IHFF@netway.at> Good luck, Aida -------------------------------------- On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 8:55 AM, <dcuillard@aol.com> wrote: > > > Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the > Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. > Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he and > his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. > Thanks, > Donna > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Donna, if you want to know what this hamlet looks like - it is very picturesque - go to https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en and key in Halenkov CZ. A page will come up with the map and four photographs on the left side. The last photograph is Halenkov. Also, go to this site, and although it is in Czech it has gorgeous pictures and a 360 degree view of the village on it: http://www.halenkov.cz/ For information in Engllish go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halenkov and if you have ancestry in other areas, you can follow this pattern for local research and/or information. Enjoy! Aida On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 11:42 AM, <dcuillard@aol.com> wrote: > > Thank you so much for the wonderful information. I did find one entry > where he listed his first name as "Jan", but once he came to Texas he > always went by "John". > I will try the items you suggest. Thank you again! > Donna > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aida Kraus <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > To: german-bohemian <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Mon, Jul 9, 2012 11:38 am > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Malinak from Halenkov > > > Dear Donna, > the advice I can give you is to search for Halenkov in the Brno archives. > Go to the acta publica link and click on Brno. > Link can be found here: > *Moravian Land Archive in Brno;* > www.*actapublica*.eu > Subsection: *Moravian* Land Archive in Brno, they may have combined it > with the State Regional Archive in Plzeň by now. > Halenkov is just inside the Moravian border abutting Slovakia and > is actually not within the research parameter of our German Bohemian > Group. You need better expertise for that particular area than we have to > offer. But we can put you on your way. The area is almost 100% Czech > where your ancestors came from. Malinak is a Czech name, but that does not > mean that he was Czech, because you list his first name the German way, > "Johannes", not "Jan" which is the Czech way. You will find his ethnicity > in the Brno records by seeing if the records are written in Czech or in > German. You may get better results if you participate at the rootsweb > Moravian list by posting the same letter you wrote to the German Bohemian > list. If that is not successful, you may contact the Austrian Genealogical > group at this website: > "Ing. Felix Gundacker" <IHFF@netway.at> > Good luck, Aida > > -------------------------------------- > > On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 8:55 AM, <dcuillard@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Seeking help in locating Christening records from 1835-1845 for the > > Village of Halenkov in Czech Republic. > > Ancestor Johannes "John" Malinak immigrated to Texas in 1872 and he and > > his wife listed their birthplaces as Halenkov. > > Thanks, > > Donna > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lavrentiy, I consider this curious effort the worlds largest jigsaw puzzle. It is in my basic curiosity make up. Sometimes I find a piece and know it fits someplace but must find the adjoining piece first. This puzzle is a 360 degree puzzle. Frank > Marg and Frank, > > I too do that (dig into details), but we are a very, very, very, very, > very, etc. small number of people who do that. > > ________ > > Lavrentiy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marg McEuen > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 12:41 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > I also have to disagree, Laurence and agree with Frank and Aida. > I, too, have had someone who went to my paternal Gt-grandmother, > Theresia Kahabka's, house site at Domaslav 18 (near Lestkov) and > sent back pictures. I am unable to travel so far because of > health reasons, so this was very much appreciated. I, too, try to > find out what happened to siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. for as > many ancestors as I can and the history that was going on around > them. > > None of my immediate ancestors were in the Expulsion, but I do try > to read as much on it as I can, as I would like to find out what > happened to some of their relatives who may have stayed. My > paternal grandmother, Elizabeth Kunzel, died at age 92 when I was > just out of high school, in 1958, so I never was able to ask her > about why she immigrated to Napa Valley, CA in 1886. I would very > much like to know what happened to one of her uncles and one aunt, > as her parents, siblings and her other uncles also came to the > USA by 1887. > > I really appreciate all the info and links to sources and your > personal recollections, Aida. That helps me fill in some of the > history in Bohemia after my direct ancestors left. Thank you so > much for all you do in helping fill in some historical gaps. Marg > McEuen > > --- On Sun, 7/8/12, fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > wrote: > > > From: fslocum@accelplus.net <fslocum@accelplus.net> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > To: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@verizon.net>, > german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > Date: Sunday, July 8, 2012, 9:35 AM > > > lawrence, I disagree. I like the stories of the family > activities, and > like following a stream upstream, attempt to find the source. > When it > crosses the ocean, and language barriers, it all becomes more > difficult. > > I know my great grandfathers origin and two generations prior. I > also know > there were siblings, one of whom visited the USA and witnessed > his will. > But what happened to them from 1870 on? > > A dear person in Prague travelled to the small village near > Karlsbad and > took pictures of the home plot, Poschitz #4, long gone except > for flowers, > grasses and a well spot. > > In my 70's now, it is still my ambition to travel there an see > it for > myself. I will pick up two small stones, one for me and the > other for his > grave marker. > > Frank Heidl Slocum > Great grandson of Franz Josef Heidl > > > / > > Not many people are interested in serious historical and > genealogical > > research. Many people have a passing interest, but they don't > get > > close to scholarly or detailed information. They just want to > punch a > > name in a computer database and get their genealogy back to > Adam and > > Eve. > > > > ______ > > > > Laurence > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Aida Kraus > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 11:04 AM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > As far as genealogy is concerned, I must disagree, because > ancestors > > can only be found in historical records. Expulsion lists, > court > > documents, witness reports, property records are all part of > this and > > present valuable information material for genealogical > research. If > > you do not know history, how can you possibly find your > roots? The > > truth of history will eventually come out, no matter how long > it takes. > > I will give you an example. I had a friend who simply could > not find a > > link to a family member. The person she was looking for "did > not > > exist". Not in her family anyway. But she was tenacious. In > the end she > > found out why he did not exist in any records of her family. > ...... > > because he was judged and hanged for a horse thief. > > So, I guess, we have to get our head around these > "unpleasant > > surprises" in genealogy of which the aftermath of the second > world > > war is just such a factor... and this NEVER seems to be a one > sided > > deal, my friends! > > It hits home, when a transgression highly censured is > returned by > > just the same, and sometimes even worse crimes. It makes us > look > > at ourselves of what we are at our worst while we know that we > > could be our best. This feeling is called shame. Genocide is > > shame on all levels of humanity. It is a pity that we will > find > > it in our roots. And then it is best to KNOW YOUR HISTORY > > Aida > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Laurence Krupnak > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> > > wrote: > > > > / > > > > Hello Aida, > > > > Knowledge and data about the "afterwords" existed, but > a small > > number of people read the literature. Not many people are > > interested in the past. > > > > _______ > > > > Laurence > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Aida Kraus > > > > To: Laurence Krupnak ; german-bohemian@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 9:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: expulsion > > > > > > Oh yes, dear Lavrentiy, THAT is widely published in the > Holocaust > > papers and many other documentation from the Nuremberg trials > in a > > neverending supply of stories for the media....... but what > came > > "afterwards" that is something that did not get into any press > and > > was put under lock and key at Bonn for 50 years. It is just > now > > surfacing, as it should, because this is also a part of > history. > > Obviously the retaliation was equally fierce, if not more so. > > Aida > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Laurence Krupnak > > <LKrupnak@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > / > > > > > > Do data exist for the number of Germans who > resided in the > > places > > that you described who either joined or were > conscripted in Nazi > > military and they themselves committed attrocities? > Any memoirs > > or > > letters of admission or regret on what they or Germany > did? > > > > _____ > > > > Lavrentiy > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Aida Kraus" <draytonharbor@gmail.com> > > To: <german-bohemian@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 2:52 PM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] For Aida - re: > expulsion > > > > > > > This is a witness report of people who have gone > through the > > cruelty > > > of > > > expulsion from their homeland. It is a document > called > > "Whitebook" > > > and > > > contains legal witness records kept in the files at > Bonn by the > > > German > > > Government for 50 years under lock and key. However, > they should > > have > > > published it as part of truthful reporting of > history after the > > > homeless > > > had declared their Charter. You will find that > charter on the > > link > > > listed > > > below. There were 14 to 16 Million of us Germans > who have lost > > their > > > homeland after WW2. The numbers of expelled persons > and their > > deaths > > > have > > > never been fully established. They were living for > centuries (in > > some > > > cases > > > as natives) in countries which is now Poland, > Lithuania, > > Estonia, > > > Latvia, > > > Ukraine, the different states of the former > Yugoslavia, > > Czechoslovakia > > > and > > > others, and their deaths were caused by mass > transports, mass > > > executions, > > > rapes and sadistic tortures between 1945-1947, up to > two years > > after > > > the > > > war. Mass graves of these martyred people are found > from time to > > time > > > even > > > now at construction excavations but creates just a > minimum of > > > publicity, > > > because it was so horrendous that even the victims > would rather > > > forget. > > > Read the Charta at this page and notice the date of > the > > Charter.... > > > just > > > 5 years after the war when wound of our losses were > still fresh: > > > http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3 > > > Aida > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, > <miscsearch@aol.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Aida, > > >> > > >> I found this while researching family members from > Freiwaldau. > > What > > >> is > > >> your opinion of this. > > >> > > >> > > >> http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/whitebook/desg00.html > > >> > > >> I've seen postings in the past regarding propaganda > and would > > like to > > >> know what's what. Thanks. > > >> > > >> Cathy > > >> > > >> > > >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > >> without > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > >> > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the message > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >