My grandmother, Mary Vait, was a Hartl, and she was born in Brooklyn, New York. She and a sister went back to "the old country" as small children. My great-grandfather Frank Vait, Sr., brought hr over to help on the farm in Ridgley township and she ended up marrying Frank, Jr., my grandpa. So I'm interested in any information about NY catholic churches Jim Vait

Anthony: I have been in touch with more churches in NYC than you can imagine. The three catholic churches that I know had a Bohemian community are the following: Most Holy Redeemer Church 173 E. 3rd Street New York, NY 10009 Our Lady of Peace Church (was known as Our Lady of Perpetual Help) 237 East 62nd Street New York, NY 10021 St. John Nepomucene (Use to hold services in Slovak) 411 East 66th Street New York, NY 10021 I will go thru other correspondence and if I find any others I will forward them on to you. Rose, New York ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Hubka" <bosax54@yahoo.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 12:48 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] RFI: Which Catholic Churches > Does anyone know which Catholic Church in NY my Czech/Bohemian ancestors might have attended between 1884 and 1891? I do not know whether they lived in Manhattan, Brooklyn, or elsewhere. The NY City Directories have several James Michaels during that period. > > Their names were Vaclav & Marie Michal (Anglicized to James & Mary Michael), and they arrived in NYC (Castle Garden) on 10 November 1884 on the S.S. Lessing and had moved to Baltimore by 1891. > > I believe that there should be two death and burial records in a NY Catholic Church(one of Marie/Mary who is said to have died shorty after arrival in NY and one of a young daughter named Johanna), one marriage of James to his second wife about 1887-89, and an unknown number of baptisms. > > Anthony > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist.html and request an archive. > >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Hubka" <bosax54@yahoo.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 12:48 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] RFI: Which Catholic Churches > Does anyone know which Catholic Church in NY my Czech/Bohemian ancestors might have attended between 1884 and 1891? I do not know whether they lived in Manhattan, Brooklyn, or elsewhere. The NY City Directories have several James Michaels during that period. > > Their names were Vaclav & Marie Michal (Anglicized to James & Mary Michael), and they arrived in NYC (Castle Garden) on 10 November 1884 on the S.S. Lessing and had moved to Baltimore by 1891. > > I believe that there should be two death and burial records in a NY Catholic Church(one of Marie/Mary who is said to have died shorty after arrival in NY and one of a young daughter named Johanna), one marriage of James to his second wife about 1887-89, and an unknown number of baptisms. > > Anthony > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist.html and request an archive. > >

http://www.nyu.edu/classes/blake.map2001/romania.html An interesting read about Czechs and Slovaks who settled in Ástoria (Queens) NY. My daughter lived in Astoria when she worked in Manhattan and when I visited I found that the neighborhoods still have distinct ethnic character. The houses on her street were all 4-6 story apartments with one flat per floor. Each had a "foregarden" in front of it enclosed by an iron fence or low brick wall. Almost all of the gardens included a shrine to the Virgin Mary with a statue. Karen

In a message dated 11/22/2005 10:49:24 AM Mountain Standard Time, bosax54@yahoo.com writes: which Catholic Church in NY my Czech/Bohemian I just reread the Email I attempted to answer and realized the family was Catholic. The URLs about Moravian Brethren may be useful to other list members. To find a catholic church I would use the rules of cluster migration and assume they settled where there were a lot of Czechs in the same neighborhood. A city directory would be one of the best sources if one can be found. A federal census for 1900 would also do because it would isolate neighborhoods / wards where there were a lot of Bohemians. Book below is found at: New York History Research New York history at the world's largest online library. www.questia.com Population History of New York City Book by Ira Rosenwaike; Syracuse University Press, 1972 Subjects:New York (N.Y.)--Population--History ...BIBLIOGRAPHY 207 New York History 207 New York Ethnic Group History...with which they are most familiar. Population History OF New York City The New York Metropolitan Region as defined... This book is a bibliography that gives titles of other books related to the subject. Karen

In a message dated 11/22/2005 10:49:24 AM Mountain Standard Time, bosax54@yahoo.com writes: Does anyone know which Catholic Church in NY my Czech/Bohemian ancestors might have attended between 1884 and 1891? If you can find a NYC city directories for 1885 and following years you can find an address for each James Michael and a listing of others living in the same household. That may be enough to find the right family. The address should point at the closest Bohemian church. NYC library probably has the old city directories. There may be some that are available for interlibrary loan if you are willing to pay something. They may be on microfiche. Write to the library and inquire. Also inquire at the NY Historical Society. There is a mailing list just for NY Genealogy. You might try asking your question there. If the ancestors were from Moravia they may have been Moravian Brethren or Evangelical Lutheran or Roman Catholic. If they were Brethren theyt may have settled near one of those churches. There is some history of NYC Brethren at: http://www.svu2000.org/cs_america/bmcolonial.htm and at http://hometown.aol.com/rechcigl/myhomepage/faith.html Karen

Does anyone know which Catholic Church in NY my Czech/Bohemian ancestors might have attended between 1884 and 1891? I do not know whether they lived in Manhattan, Brooklyn, or elsewhere. The NY City Directories have several James Michaels during that period. Their names were Vaclav & Marie Michal (Anglicized to James & Mary Michael), and they arrived in NYC (Castle Garden) on 10 November 1884 on the S.S. Lessing and had moved to Baltimore by 1891. I believe that there should be two death and burial records in a NY Catholic Church(one of Marie/Mary who is said to have died shorty after arrival in NY and one of a young daughter named Johanna), one marriage of James to his second wife about 1887-89, and an unknown number of baptisms. Anthony --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

Some URLs that might help: http://www.bischofteinitz.de/ Ask Peter Pawlick if there is a photo in the Heimatbuch or maybe a better photo he can scan and send. Found that one at: http://www.sudeten-by.de/links.htm

Bob, Is that the one with the hand-carved altar about 20 minutes from Rothenburg o.d.T.? If so, yes. Cliff > Anyone on the list have any pictures of the church at Heiligenkreuz? > Thanks > Bob Liebl >

Nope. This one is near Weissensulz in Bohemia. I have a few pictures of the outside but none of the inside. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: <cburk@kiva.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Heiligenkreuz > Bob, > Is that the one with the hand-carved altar about 20 minutes from > Rothenburg o.d.T.? If so, yes. > Cliff > >> Anyone on the list have any pictures of the church at Heiligenkreuz? >> Thanks >> Bob Liebl >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist.html and request an > archive. >

Hi Randy, What do you need to know? Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "randy mathes" <RANDALMATHES@peoplepc.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Heiligenkreuz > Bob Liebl, i would like to discuss some family history with you maybe, > please email me at randalmathes@hotmail.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Liebl" <liebl@wi.rr.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 12:06 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Heiligenkreuz > > >> Anyone on the list have any pictures of the church at Heiligenkreuz? >> Thanks >> Bob Liebl >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >> list? >> Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist.html and request an >> archive. >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >

Bob Liebl, i would like to discuss some family history with you maybe, please email me at randalmathes@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Liebl" <liebl@wi.rr.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 12:06 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Heiligenkreuz > Anyone on the list have any pictures of the church at Heiligenkreuz? > Thanks > Bob Liebl > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist.html and request an > archive. >

Anyone on the list have any pictures of the church at Heiligenkreuz? Thanks Bob Liebl

In a message dated 11/20/2005 1:26:56 PM Mountain Standard Time, mpettyjohn@comcast.net writes: when the serf era ended Serfdom ended in all of the Habsburg lands after the 1848 uprising. I believe that the newly elected parliament finally agreed on a law ending it in 1849. At that time serfs were allowed to own the property where they had only had tenant status before but I believe they had to pay a "compensation tax" of some kind to their former landlords. The Herrschaft (noble estate or dominion) administrative system ended at that time. The old estates were incorporated into a new county system with administration from a county seat by public officials rather than a nobleman and his staff. I am not certain when the county system actually began to function but believe it may have been in 1850. Originally there were about 80 counties in Bohemia but I believe there were various reorganizations over the years that resulted in 139 or so by 1939. If you are looking for county records it is important to know what city was the county seat at the time the records were made. Karel Kysilka has published a lot of information about the jusdicial (justice) and general administrative districts of Moravia over time at his website about Moravia. http://members.tripod.com/~zlimpkk/ Karel also has maps of the old Herrschafts of Moravia at his site. You can see on those maps that some Herrschafts had small bits of property that were separated from the main estate by some distance. Those administrative islands disappeared when the new counties were mapped. The size and shape of the counties may have been related to the old estates in some areas while others were not. Karen

Karen, Thank you. The area on my great-grandfather's passport is "Resident to: Deutsch-Jaßnick Outskirts: Neutischin (now: Nový Jièín) Region Mähren (Moravia). Another kind person gave me the following information on the area and what it is called now: Deutsch Jasnick / Deutch Jasnik means Nemecky Jesenik which is Jesenik nad Odrou. I also found out that the region or area where these towns are located is Moravskoslezsky. Also, do you know when the serf era ended in that area. Do you know how expensive it would be to hire a researcher in that area? Thank you, Mary -------------- Original message -------------- > In a message dated 11/20/2005 12:15:43 PM Mountain Standard Time, > mpettyjohn@comcast.net writes: > Thank you for sending this site to the list. I was wondering if you know of > a site that has downloadable pictures of Moravia in the late 1800s and even > early than that. My great-grandfather immigrated from that area in abt 1880 and > I want to include pictures of the area and history of the area for the family > history book and am writing for my children and grandchildren. By the way, > according to my great-grandfather's passport, his occupation was a day laborer > and would like to find a site that would describe the socio-economic structure > of that era. > > Once again, thank you for your willingness to help the group in their > unending genealogical quest. > > Mary > > Moravia is a large area with six "regions" (Kraj) each of which were divided > into Okres (counties) back in the 1880s. > > If your ancestor was ethnic German your best bet for finding old photos of > Moravia would be in the Moravian Heimat books or maybe at the websites sponsored > by Moravian Heimat Societies. > > Otherwise you may find some nice photoarchives at the Brno central archive > but you may have to have a Czech researcher go over them for you. You may also > fined a Czech researcher who would be willing to travel to your ancestral > home area and take pictures of what it is like there today -- including the site > of ancestral homes or businesses if they still exist. A Czech friend who > lives in Brno did that for me - took 65 photos and sent me hard copy and the > negaives which I can easily have transferred to CD. > > A day-laborer was a person who had no trade or regular job but was available > to work "as needed." In general they would do field work, road work, > herding, unskilled construction, maintenance and repair, sweeping / cleaning, > loading and unloading wagons, etc. Just as unskilled day labor hired at our > U.S. > city and county "Job Serivice" offices are relatively low paid, so were > day-laborers back in Moravia. > > However, during serfdom they were not so poorly paid that fully-employed > serfs would turn up their noses at working for those wages. There are stories > of > how a noble lord would allow a farmer, craftsman or other more or less > well-off serf to buy out his "Robot" dues with a cash payment . The nobleman > used > that money to pay day-laborers to do the same work. However, in many cases > after a serf paid the nobleman whatever fee was required, he simply went to the > local "job service" where the nobleman's overseer hired day laborers. He > would then hire on by the hour and come home with more money in his pocket than > he had paid to get out of working "Robot" for nothing. > > Karen > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >

Karen, Thank you for sending this site to the list. I was wondering if you know of a site that has downloadable pictures of Moravia in the late 1800s and even early than that. My great-grandfather immigrated from that area in abt 1880 and I want to include pictures of the area and history of the area for the family history book and am writing for my children and grandchildren. By the way, according to my great-grandfather's passport, his occupation was a day laborer and would like to find a site that would describe the socio-economic structure of that era. Once again, thank you for your willingness to help the group in their unending genealogical quest. Mary -------------- Original message -------------- > German Ebay is a good place to start looking for postcards. > > They may be called "Ansichtkarten" . > > Search the Interne with : Ansichtkarten Bergstadt Maehren > Or with: Ansichtkarten Sudetenland > Or with: Ansichtkarten Czechoslovakia > > One website with a LOT of Bohemia / Moravia post cards is: > http://www.ansichtskartenversand.com/ > > When you click on a place name you can then go from image to image in full > size on screen via a "previous - next" button. > > You can save any image with a right click on it and choose "save picture as". > > > Since other list members may be interested in various post cards > there are many options found with Internet searches. > > One is: > > http://www.sammler-bonn.de/online-shop/ansichtskarten/laender/boehmen/boehmen. > htm > > There may be other hits with the Czech word for "Ansichtkarten" and Czech > place names but I don't know Czech. Another list member may be able to provide > that. > > Karen > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >

http://www.luzicke-hory.cz/galerie/index.php?pg=hparege Here is a link for postcards and pictures of the Lusatian Mountains. Jiří Kühn has created this great website for this region. Rod Fleck Forks, WA -----Original Message----- From: KarenHob@aol.com [mailto:KarenHob@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 10:48 AM To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] CZ place search URL There is a website under construction that is aimed at making contact between Czech citizens and their local officials. However it is usuful for helping genealogists locate places withing the CR as long as the present http://mesta.obce.cz/summary_english.asp This English page (linked from a home page in Czech) links to a search page for places withing the CR now. The listings probably do not include places that were abandonned or destroyed after 1945. Click on: extended search on the search page, select an OKRES by scrolling through the options and then click on Vyhledej button On the next page there is a list of places included in that Okres. Scroll to the Czech place name you want, click on it and click on the black button. A page with a small map showing the general location of the place appears. Optional search is to leave the Okre name as it appears when the search page first comes up. I believe that option says "all Okres" or "any Okres". Type the place name in Czech in the space above the Okres space. Click on the grey search buttong. A page comes up with the map locating the place. The title data gives you the correct Okres and Kraj in CR. If you enter a place name that occurs two or more times in CR you will get a list of possibilities. If you click on one at a time the map appears showing the approximate location of each. One place name that is used 8 times is Benesov Do a test with that Place name to understand how this works. Karen ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html

In a message dated 11/20/2005 12:15:43 PM Mountain Standard Time, mpettyjohn@comcast.net writes: Thank you for sending this site to the list. I was wondering if you know of a site that has downloadable pictures of Moravia in the late 1800s and even early than that. My great-grandfather immigrated from that area in abt 1880 and I want to include pictures of the area and history of the area for the family history book and am writing for my children and grandchildren. By the way, according to my great-grandfather's passport, his occupation was a day laborer and would like to find a site that would describe the socio-economic structure of that era. Once again, thank you for your willingness to help the group in their unending genealogical quest. Mary Moravia is a large area with six "regions" (Kraj) each of which were divided into Okres (counties) back in the 1880s. If your ancestor was ethnic German your best bet for finding old photos of Moravia would be in the Moravian Heimat books or maybe at the websites sponsored by Moravian Heimat Societies. Otherwise you may find some nice photoarchives at the Brno central archive but you may have to have a Czech researcher go over them for you. You may also fined a Czech researcher who would be willing to travel to your ancestral home area and take pictures of what it is like there today -- including the site of ancestral homes or businesses if they still exist. A Czech friend who lives in Brno did that for me - took 65 photos and sent me hard copy and the negaives which I can easily have transferred to CD. A day-laborer was a person who had no trade or regular job but was available to work "as needed." In general they would do field work, road work, herding, unskilled construction, maintenance and repair, sweeping / cleaning, loading and unloading wagons, etc. Just as unskilled day labor hired at our U.S. city and county "Job Serivice" offices are relatively low paid, so were day-laborers back in Moravia. However, during serfdom they were not so poorly paid that fully-employed serfs would turn up their noses at working for those wages. There are stories of how a noble lord would allow a farmer, craftsman or other more or less well-off serf to buy out his "Robot" dues with a cash payment . The nobleman used that money to pay day-laborers to do the same work. However, in many cases after a serf paid the nobleman whatever fee was required, he simply went to the local "job service" where the nobleman's overseer hired day laborers. He would then hire on by the hour and come home with more money in his pocket than he had paid to get out of working "Robot" for nothing. Karen

There is a website under construction that is aimed at making contact between Czech citizens and their local officials. However it is usuful for helping genealogists locate places withing the CR as long as the present http://mesta.obce.cz/summary_english.asp This English page (linked from a home page in Czech) links to a search page for places withing the CR now. The listings probably do not include places that were abandonned or destroyed after 1945. Click on: extended search on the search page, select an OKRES by scrolling through the options and then click on Vyhledej button On the next page there is a list of places included in that Okres. Scroll to the Czech place name you want, click on it and click on the black button. A page with a small map showing the general location of the place appears. Optional search is to leave the Okre name as it appears when the search page first comes up. I believe that option says "all Okres" or "any Okres". Type the place name in Czech in the space above the Okres space. Click on the grey search buttong. A page comes up with the map locating the place. The title data gives you the correct Okres and Kraj in CR. If you enter a place name that occurs two or more times in CR you will get a list of possibilities. If you click on one at a time the map appears showing the approximate location of each. One place name that is used 8 times is Benesov Do a test with that Place name to understand how this works. Karen

German Ebay is a good place to start looking for postcards. They may be called "Ansichtkarten" . Search the Interne with : Ansichtkarten Bergstadt Maehren Or with: Ansichtkarten Sudetenland Or with: Ansichtkarten Czechoslovakia One website with a LOT of Bohemia / Moravia post cards is: http://www.ansichtskartenversand.com/ When you click on a place name you can then go from image to image in full size on screen via a "previous - next" button. You can save any image with a right click on it and choose "save picture as". Since other list members may be interested in various post cards there are many options found with Internet searches. One is: http://www.sammler-bonn.de/online-shop/ansichtskarten/laender/boehmen/boehmen. htm There may be other hits with the Czech word for "Ansichtkarten" and Czech place names but I don't know Czech. Another list member may be able to provide that. Karen