CWarschak@aol.com wrote: > > My ancestors are German and Czech so I have never been concerned with > Galician research but, just out of curiosity, would someone enlighten me on the > ethnic backgrounds, etc. of White Russians, as opposed to "Dark Russians?". ********* The term White Russians refers to Belarusians. In the past, the Russian peoples were divided into the following categories: Great Russians Little Russians White Russians Carpatho-Russians The above terms are no longer accpetable, the following terms are now used: Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Carpatho-Rusyns, respectively. _______ Lavrentiy Krupniak .

My ancestors are German and Czech so I have never been concerned with Galician research but, just out of curiosity, would someone enlighten me on the ethnic backgrounds, etc. of White Russians, as opposed to "Dark Russians?".

Emigration from Galicia to other countries. You may find some links to your ancestors here: The Great Economic Emigration Beginning in the 1880s, a mass emigration of the Galician peasantry occurred. The emigration started as a seasonal one to Germany (newly unified and economically dynamic) and then later became a Trans-Atlantic one with large-scale emigration to The United States, Brazil, and Canada. Caused by the backward economic condition of Galicia where rural poverty was widespread (See "Economy" below), the emigration began in the western, Polish populated part of Galicia and quickly shifted east to the Ukrainian inhabited parts. Poles, Ukrainians, Jews, and Germans all participated in this mass movement of countryfolk and villagers. Poles migrated principally to New England and the midwestern states of the United States, but also to Brazil and elsewhere; Ukrainians migrated to Brazil, Canada, and the United States, with a very intense emigration from Southern Podolia to Western Canada; and Jews emigrated both directly to the New World and also indirectly via other parts of Austria-Hungary. A total of several hundred thousand people were involved in this Great Economic Emigration which grew steadily more intense until the outbreak of the World War in 1914. The war put a temporary halt to the emigration which never again reached the same proportions. The Great Economic Emigration, especially the emigration to Brazil, the "Brazilian Fever" as it was called at the time, was described in contemporary literary works by the Polish poetess, Maria Konopnicka, the Ukrainian writer, Ivan Franko, and many others.

Karen Stanley of Houston found the term White Russian in the special collections on Russian immigration and politics of the early 20th century of the Hoover Institute at Stanford. She says the term White Russian was used in the 18th and 19th centuries to describe ethnic Russians residing in the area between Russia and Poland (today this includes Lithuania, Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia, Moldova). By the 1920s, however, the term was more commonly used for any Russians who had opposed the Bolshevik Revolution and supported the imperial government. For a further understanding of the term visit the Web site on the subject at www-hoover.stanford.edu/hila/. ----- Original Message ----- From: <CWarschak@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 3:39 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Galicia > My ancestors are German and Czech so I have never been concerned with > Galician research but, just out of curiosity, would someone enlighten me > on the > ethnic backgrounds, etc. of White Russians, as opposed to "Dark > Russians?". > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >

Belarusians are White Ruthenians. _________ Lavrentiy Krupniak . "Daniel R. Killoran,Ph.D." wrote: > > On Feb 28, 2006, at 3:00 PM, Karen Hob wrote: > > >> Out of curiosity, what makes people think the village is in Galicia? > > Probably because nobody I have ever met has more than a vague idea > where Galicia is! Even a relative of mine who is part White Ruthenian > didn't know! > Even most eastern europeans think of it as "back east" somewhere. But > they have all heard of it, so if they have to give somebody a > homeland they think Galicia will do! > > Dan Killoran

Dear Aida; Thank you for your brilliant summary below! Rosina T. Schmidt > Dear Dr. Killoran, > Re.: Galicia, we never cease to learn, right?! And Egerländer > villages even there ...... and with more audio and visual cultural > descriptions than what we can find on our Egerländer websites. > Let me add that the variety in looks between different ethnic > villages "in the East" were significant. For instance in the Banat there > were French and German settlers. Because the Germans brought their > teachers with them and immediately established a school system, the French > sent their children there also and thereby absorbed the German language. > When that "French" part of the Banat was split off and given to Yugoslavia > in 1918, these French people were treated as "Germans" far more brutally > in 1945 that the Banater Germans in Romania. And that is a story that > will probably surface next. > The lower and middle class is looked upon as "lowest"class by > the politicians of a country and are considered "expendable" for the good > of the fatherland........ In reality they are providing the most reliable > tax base for it. Hitler actually recognized that and based the value of > the Mark not on the international market but on the work ethic of the > German people. It was a unique concept which did not teach us "economics" > during that time. All items were price controlled and there was no > "shopping" necessary. You bought the item - regardless where - for the > same price.....and business licenses were granted only for the planned > amount of establishments, so they were only as many shops as a community > could support and they were able to coexist to serve the public instead of > "cutting each other's throat". Money was plentiful, so were material > items, like a car and radio (Volksempfänger and Volkswagen) for everyone, > but food was painfully scarce. It was the effort in obtaining food that > started a black market trade and - therefore - a new economic base. > As far as the settlements went, after the Germans were > expelled, the Czech Government tried to settle Roma people into the many > vacated houses of the Sudetengermans, but were not successful with their > good intention. Maria Theresa of Austria Hungary and Katherina the Great > of Russia knew that with German settlers from the Imperium they would not > only get "farmers" but also "craftsmen" because each small farmer was > apprenticed to a trade. Farms in Germany had become so small, that > additional income sources, like a trade, had become a necessity. > Therefore, seeking and settling such people in unpopulated areas was a > sure way to develop the land in an orderly way, as well as having reliable > representation against the influx of Eastern hordes. It did them no good > that Jefferson had his agents running around to lure this same desirable > population to America, and they had to counteract with more generous > offers in the East to retain their population within Europe. In fact, > they - as well - "made use" of these people to settle and protect the > borders of the homeland. The creation of such well run villages became > the envy of many other ethnic groups and the accumulation of German > prosperity was for ever the cherished "bone of contention" to be taken > away, preferable as the 'spoils of some war.' > The vacuum 3 Million Germans had left after the expellation > could not be made up with 900,000 Czech carpetbaggers who had a choice of > 3:1 dwellings. The started in the best, dirtied it, moved to the next, > dirtied it also, but by then their third choice in more remote villages, > were already in neglect and ruin. Our people having lived there for > centuries and each generation contributed to "making it better" and so > this expellation was, indeed, a very painful "operation" where part of > their soul got amputated. Our people had not only prospered, but gave > their land their own soul! Coming back to these once charming hamlets > they had left as children, they came back as grandparents, looking around > dumbfounded and asked "why?"....Nobody had wanted what was wrested from > them; often this process accompanied bloodletting or a family member was > clubbed to death. And so those who still remember ( there are just a few > old ones like us left now) stand in front of our cradle quite forlornly, > with head and arms hanging and tears streaming from our eyes in total > incomprehension. They would have been happy in these tidy hamlets, albeit > they would not have become as rich as they had become in Germany with > their big Mercedes now standing where father's plow once was. But they > know that while they were free to "prosper again" those that had robbed > them of their homeland had been the slaves of Communism. It is the > younger Czech people that could clearly see all this and woke up to the > rest of the world. And our group has withdrawn with an elegant, albeit > forced gesture of non-retaliation and has become absorbed into the "German > way of life" ....... or elsewhere in the world - and thereby has been > abolished and eliminated. > Aida

Dear Dr. Killoran, Re.: Galicia, we never cease to learn, right?! And Egerländer villages even there ...... and with more audio and visual cultural descriptions than what we can find on our Egerländer websites. Let me add that the variety in looks between different ethnic villages "in the East" were significant. For instance in the Banat there were French and German settlers. Because the Germans brought their teachers with them and immediately established a school system, the French sent their children there also and thereby absorbed the German language. When that "French" part of the Banat was split off and given to Yugoslavia in 1918, these French people were treated as "Germans" far more brutally in 1945 that the Banater Germans in Romania. And that is a story that will probably surface next. The lower and middle class is looked upon as "lowest"class by the politicians of a country and are considered "expendable" for the good of the fatherland........ In reality they are providing the most reliable tax base for it. Hitler actually recognized that and based the value of the Mark not on the international market but on the work ethic of the German people. It was a unique concept which did not teach us "economics" during that time. All items were price controlled and there was no "shopping" necessary. You bought the item - regardless where - for the same price.....and business licenses were granted only for the planned amount of establishments, so they were only as many shops as a community could support and they were able to coexist to serve the public instead of "cutting each other's throat". Money was plentiful, so were material items, like a car and radio (Volksempfänger and Volkswagen) for everyone, but food was painfully scarce. It was the effort in obtaining food that started a black market trade and - therefore - a new economic base. As far as the settlements went, after the Germans were expelled, the Czech Government tried to settle Roma people into the many vacated houses of the Sudetengermans, but were not successful with their good intention. Maria Theresa of Austria Hungary and Katherina the Great of Russia knew that with German settlers from the Imperium they would not only get "farmers" but also "craftsmen" because each small farmer was apprenticed to a trade. Farms in Germany had become so small, that additional income sources, like a trade, had become a necessity. Therefore, seeking and settling such people in unpopulated areas was a sure way to develop the land in an orderly way, as well as having reliable representation against the influx of Eastern hordes. It did them no good that Jefferson had his agents running around to lure this same desirable population to America, and they had to counteract with more generous offers in the East to retain their population within Europe. In fact, they - as well - "made use" of these people to settle and protect the borders of the homeland. The creation of such well run villages became the envy of many other ethnic groups and the accumulation of German prosperity was for ever the cherished "bone of contention" to be taken away, preferable as the 'spoils of some war.' The vacuum 3 Million Germans had left after the expellation could not be made up with 900,000 Czech carpetbaggers who had a choice of 3:1 dwellings. The started in the best, dirtied it, moved to the next, dirtied it also, but by then their third choice in more remote villages, were already in neglect and ruin. Our people having lived there for centuries and each generation contributed to "making it better" and so this expellation was, indeed, a very painful "operation" where part of their soul got amputated. Our people had not only prospered, but gave their land their own soul! Coming back to these once charming hamlets they had left as children, they came back as grandparents, looking around dumbfounded and asked "why?"....Nobody had wanted what was wrested from them; often this process accompanied bloodletting or a family member was clubbed to death. And so those who still remember ( there are just a few old ones like us left now) stand in front of our cradle quite forlornly, with head and arms hanging and tears streaming from our eyes in total incomprehension. They would have been happy in these tidy hamlets, albeit they would not have become as rich as they had become in Germany with their big Mercedes now standing where father's plow once was. But they know that while they were free to "prosper again" those that had robbed them of their homeland had been the slaves of Communism. It is the younger Czech people that could clearly see all this and woke up to the rest of the world. And our group has withdrawn with an elegant, albeit forced gesture of non-retaliation and has become absorbed into the "German way of life" ....... or elsewhere in the world - and thereby has been abolished and eliminated. Aida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel R. Killoran,Ph.D." <drkilloran@speakeasy.net> To: "aida kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:51 AM Subject: Re: Galicia On Mar 2, 2006, at 4:48 PM, aida kraus wrote: > From Aida: > > > If you need to know the Jewel of the Austrian Crown for breeding > horse-stock, look at this link, there is a map for location. And then > you will know more about Galicia. There were quite a few Egerländer > settling in Galizien for the mild climate versus the cold Bohemian > Winters. What you write about poverty may be true about some villages > and settlements, as they are in Ireland, Yugoslavia and some other > "Hinterlands". The German settlements, however, and in general - were > very clean and well maintained, as they came from the same area of > settlement, mostly the Rhineland, as they were in Hungary, the Batschka, > Banat and Siebenbuergen. Here are a few links where you can browse and > then you KNOW where the place is and what it looks like. > Aida > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > attachments: > Shortcut to: http://www.machmer.de/ > http://www.machliniec.de/ > http://www.polishroots.org/genpoland/gal.htm > <www.machmer.de.url> Thanks for the references! You know, this is the first time I have ever seen a map showing the exact borders of Galicia - usually the word is just printed over the modern state info. I had rather wondered whether it was an actual well-defined region or just a general area, like "steppes" or "gaeltacht". It seems to be about twice as large as I had imagined, although in about the right place. It is interesting to know that there were Germans there - to hear it talked about, one would imagine the population to be entirely jewish! Dan Killoran

If you need to know the Jewel of the Austrian Crown for breeding > horse-stock, look at this link, there is a map for location. And > then you will know more about Galicia. There were quite a few > Egerländer settling in Galizien for the mild climate versus the > cold Bohemian Winters. What you write about poverty may be true > about some villages and settlements, as they are in Ireland, > Yugoslavia and some other "Hinterlands". The German settlements, > however, and in general - were very clean and well maintained, as > they came from the same area of settlement, mostly the Rhineland, > just as they were in Hungary, the Batschka, Banat and Siebenbuergen. > Here are a few links where you can browse and then you KNOW where > the place is and what it looks like. > Aida > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > attachments: > Shortcut to: http://www.machmer.de/ > http://www.machliniec.de/ > http://www.polishroots.org/genpoland/gal.htm

Sir! I like your reply, funny but true ! O.W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel R. Killoran,Ph.D." <drkilloran@speakeasy.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:38 AM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Re: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-D Digest V06 #32 > > On Feb 28, 2006, at 3:00 PM, Karen Hob wrote: > >>> Out of curiosity, what makes people think the village is in Galicia? > > Probably because nobody I have ever met has more than a vague idea > where Galicia is! Even a relative of mine who is part White Ruthenian > didn't know! > Even most eastern europeans think of it as "back east" somewhere. But > they have all heard of it, so if they have to give somebody a > homeland they think Galicia will do! > > Dan Killoran > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >

On Feb 28, 2006, at 3:00 PM, Karen Hob wrote: >> Out of curiosity, what makes people think the village is in Galicia? Probably because nobody I have ever met has more than a vague idea where Galicia is! Even a relative of mine who is part White Ruthenian didn't know! Even most eastern europeans think of it as "back east" somewhere. But they have all heard of it, so if they have to give somebody a homeland they think Galicia will do! Dan Killoran

THANK YOU AIDA ! And, thank you Rosina, for saying what many others were thinking and failed to send a note as you did I also enjoy those kinds of stories as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. For just a brief moment, stories of "The old country,'" help me travel to places I long to go. Helen > Aida; > > Thank you for sharing this excellent explanation of the Carnival tradition! > > Rosina > > > > > > Ash Wednesday.. End of Mardi gras.. > > > > The Mardi Gras Carnival has ended, and Lent has begun. These crazy days > > of the "Mummenschanz" (Carnival) are an ancient celebration of scaring > > Father Winter away. Everybody wore masks and costumes and for many days > > there was partying, balls, dances, playing tricks on one another and > > "letting of steam".. I still remember that they buried the "Blasl" in our > > Egerland, my home. > > > > The "Blasl," is probably a nickname for Blasius and I really > > don't know the connection, because that same type of - maybe "specter" or > > clown - is known as "Hockeditz" in Germany. This Hockeditz however is not > > buried, like our Blasl, but he is burned. You will now ask: How does > > that thing look? Well, it is an effigy of a man in old clothes stuffed > > with straw. The Egerlander Blasl is a priced possession of the entire > > village. He is tied to an old chair which is then suspended under the > > rafters of the tallest building in the village. This clown rules over the > > last few days of Mardi gras. Actually on January 1st the Mayor of each > > town had to hand over the symbolic key of his town to the "Reign of Fools" > > represented by an elected King and Queen for that season. It was a great > > honor! While they represented the "rulers," old Basil under the rafters > > was the season's "spirit". I remember that the worst that could happen to > > a village was when another village sto! > > le good old Blasl from their rafters! This was quite plainly an abduction, > > and it would cost everyone a pretty penny and many barrels of beer to get > > him back.. and they HAD to have him back, because Blasl needed to be > > buried in the ground at the end of Mardi Gras. Not only were all the > > Carnival activities at an end at Midnight on Fat Tuesday, but the > > congregation walked with Blasl down to the creek, or river, or if worse > > came to worst to the village's goose pond. There the men would cut holes > > into the ice and all the men would reach for their wallets and the women > > for their satchels, kneel down in the snow and "wash out their money > > burses" to signify that there was no more money to spend on drink. This > > done and back on wobbly knees, there would be "roasts" of village members > > and provided a chance to voice grievances in a funny way that nobody would > > take serious. But after that, a great lament would begin, because now > > Blasl was dying and gags of reviving him would be act! > > ed out defying description. After all people had made sure that Blasl > > was truly dead, a funny funeral would be held in his honor and finally he > > was laid to rest under great moaning, groaning, weeping and lamenting. > > After several days of inebriation that was very easy to do! This done, a > > few people would seek their beds in an exhausted state, the others would > > meander around to clear their heads and to appear quite rumpled at the > > first church service of the day to repent their sins. "Mea culpa, mea > > culpa". it was so wonderful! After they had danced many nights away, they > > now dragged heavy feet and numb heads into church. They walked out with > > ashes on their hair or at least a cross of ashes painted on their > > forehead. The last fat was used up for "Faschingskrapfen" a filled > > doughnut, and several cups of coffee would revive the sinners to go home > > to sleep. The next day was wash day, because the ashes had dirtied the > > bed linen and the shoes were brought to the cobbler, bec! > > ause the soles had been danced through... and the consequences often did > > not show up until November... > > > > from Aida > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist.html and request an archive. > >

Karen, you mentioned a "Bischofteinitz Heimatbuch" in your last posting. Where oh where could I get one of those? Either to borrow, but I suspect I'd really like to buy. Thanks, Alice

Aida; Thank you for sharing this excellent explanation of the Carnival tradition! Rosina > Ash Wednesday.. End of Mardi gras.. > > The Mardi Gras Carnival has ended, and Lent has begun. These crazy days > of the "Mummenschanz" (Carnival) are an ancient celebration of scaring > Father Winter away. Everybody wore masks and costumes and for many days > there was partying, balls, dances, playing tricks on one another and > "letting of steam".. I still remember that they buried the "Blasl" in our > Egerland, my home. > > The "Blasl," is probably a nickname for Blasius and I really > don't know the connection, because that same type of - maybe "specter" or > clown - is known as "Hockeditz" in Germany. This Hockeditz however is not > buried, like our Blasl, but he is burned. You will now ask: How does > that thing look? Well, it is an effigy of a man in old clothes stuffed > with straw. The Egerlander Blasl is a priced possession of the entire > village. He is tied to an old chair which is then suspended under the > rafters of the tallest building in the village. This clown rules over the > last few days of Mardi gras. Actually on January 1st the Mayor of each > town had to hand over the symbolic key of his town to the "Reign of Fools" > represented by an elected King and Queen for that season. It was a great > honor! While they represented the "rulers," old Basil under the rafters > was the season's "spirit". I remember that the worst that could happen to > a village was when another village sto! > le good old Blasl from their rafters! This was quite plainly an abduction, > and it would cost everyone a pretty penny and many barrels of beer to get > him back.. and they HAD to have him back, because Blasl needed to be > buried in the ground at the end of Mardi Gras. Not only were all the > Carnival activities at an end at Midnight on Fat Tuesday, but the > congregation walked with Blasl down to the creek, or river, or if worse > came to worst to the village's goose pond. There the men would cut holes > into the ice and all the men would reach for their wallets and the women > for their satchels, kneel down in the snow and "wash out their money > burses" to signify that there was no more money to spend on drink. This > done and back on wobbly knees, there would be "roasts" of village members > and provided a chance to voice grievances in a funny way that nobody would > take serious. But after that, a great lament would begin, because now > Blasl was dying and gags of reviving him would be act! > ed out defying description. After all people had made sure that Blasl > was truly dead, a funny funeral would be held in his honor and finally he > was laid to rest under great moaning, groaning, weeping and lamenting. > After several days of inebriation that was very easy to do! This done, a > few people would seek their beds in an exhausted state, the others would > meander around to clear their heads and to appear quite rumpled at the > first church service of the day to repent their sins. "Mea culpa, mea > culpa". it was so wonderful! After they had danced many nights away, they > now dragged heavy feet and numb heads into church. They walked out with > ashes on their hair or at least a cross of ashes painted on their > forehead. The last fat was used up for "Faschingskrapfen" a filled > doughnut, and several cups of coffee would revive the sinners to go home > to sleep. The next day was wash day, because the ashes had dirtied the > bed linen and the shoes were brought to the cobbler, bec! > ause the soles had been danced through... and the consequences often did > not show up until November... > > from Aida

My name is Petr Polakovic, I live in the Czech Republic, my ancestors left Bohemia 1877 for South of Brazil. I have been doing research on this emigration wave since 1998. I am now trying to bring together all German-Bohemians whose ancestors came to South America from the Czech Lands - now state of Czech republic. Please contact me: Petr Polakovic German-Bohemian Heritage Center CMC Graduate School of Business Namesti 5. kvetna 2 250 88 Celakovice Phone: +420 326 999 500 Fax: +420 326 999 726 Mobile: +420 602 326 558 E-mail: ppolakovic@cmc.cz <mailto:ppolakovic@cmc.cz>

Ash Wednesday.. End of Mardi gras.. The Mardi Gras Carnival has ended, and Lent has begun. These crazy days of the "Mummenschanz" (Carnival) are an ancient celebration of scaring Father Winter away. Everybody wore masks and costumes and for many days there was partying, balls, dances, playing tricks on one another and "letting of steam".. I still remember that they buried the "Blasl" in our Egerland, my home. The "Blasl," is probably a nickname for Blasius and I really don't know the connection, because that same type of - maybe "specter" or clown - is known as "Hockeditz" in Germany. This Hockeditz however is not buried, like our Blasl, but he is burned. You will now ask: How does that thing look? Well, it is an effigy of a man in old clothes stuffed with straw. The Egerlander Blasl is a priced possession of the entire village. He is tied to an old chair which is then suspended under the rafters of the tallest building in the village. This clown rules over the last few days of Mardi gras. Actually on January 1st the Mayor of each town had to hand over the symbolic key of his town to the "Reign of Fools" represented by an elected King and Queen for that season. It was a great honor! While they represented the "rulers," old Basil under the rafters was the season's "spirit". I remember that the worst that could happen to a village was when another village sto! le good old Blasl from their rafters! This was quite plainly an abduction, and it would cost everyone a pretty penny and many barrels of beer to get him back.. and they HAD to have him back, because Blasl needed to be buried in the ground at the end of Mardi Gras. Not only were all the Carnival activities at an end at Midnight on Fat Tuesday, but the congregation walked with Blasl down to the creek, or river, or if worse came to worst to the village's goose pond. There the men would cut holes into the ice and all the men would reach for their wallets and the women for their satchels, kneel down in the snow and "wash out their money burses" to signify that there was no more money to spend on drink. This done and back on wobbly knees, there would be "roasts" of village members and provided a chance to voice grievances in a funny way that nobody would take serious. But after that, a great lament would begin, because now Blasl was dying and gags of reviving him would be act! ed out defying description. After all people had made sure that Blasl was truly dead, a funny funeral would be held in his honor and finally he was laid to rest under great moaning, groaning, weeping and lamenting. After several days of inebriation that was very easy to do! This done, a few people would seek their beds in an exhausted state, the others would meander around to clear their heads and to appear quite rumpled at the first church service of the day to repent their sins. "Mea culpa, mea culpa". it was so wonderful! After they had danced many nights away, they now dragged heavy feet and numb heads into church. They walked out with ashes on their hair or at least a cross of ashes painted on their forehead. The last fat was used up for "Faschingskrapfen" a filled doughnut, and several cups of coffee would revive the sinners to go home to sleep. The next day was wash day, because the ashes had dirtied the bed linen and the shoes were brought to the cobbler, bec! ause the soles had been danced through... and the consequences often did not show up until November... from Aida

Galicia was primarily Polish and Rusyn|Ukrainian people. Overall, Poles were the majority (ca. 52%), but Ukrainians comprised the majority in the eastern Galician districts. Eastern Galicia is roughly the part of former Galicia that is now in Ukraine. Keely Stauter-Halsted in her book _Nation in a Village_ "explores the complex case of the *Polish* peasants of Austrian Galicia, from the 1848 emancipation of the serfs to the eve of the First World War." http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0801438446/102-3872675-3869706?v=glance&n=283155 http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3763/is_200112/ai_n9013986 ********** "Galicia was the poorest and most backward Austrian province. "Galician poverty" was a byword." http://letters.krakow.pl/books/austriackie.html *********** "Galician poverty became proverbial - it was the poorest region in Europe, and vast waves of immigrations - primarily to the United States - continued all the way until 1914. Life expectancy for a Galician peasant was dismally low. http://www.lviv-life.com/lviv/galicia ********** Galicia constituted the largest and simultaneously the poorest and the most retarded province of Austria. http://www.jewishgen.org/Galicia/html/Jews_of_Galicia.pdf ********** ________ Lavrentiy Krupniak . KarenHob@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 2/28/2006 7:14:58 AM Mountain Standard Time, > silvagen@gmail.com writes: > Out of curiosity, what makes people think the village is in Galicia? > The posting I copied to the GB list came from Catherine Havermeier on the PBS > list. > > She suggested that the book was about Austrian Poland. > > If the actual references are to Russian Poland then I suspect her assumption > was wrong. > > I would like to comment that a peasant's life could vary somewhat between > regions but there were still quite a few similarities as Ms. Havermeier noted > when she said that her ancestors from western (Prussian) Poland told of a life > very similar to the one described in the book. > > The Russians were probably the last to do away with serfdom and their > peasants probably had a somewhat harsher life than those ruled by the Prussians or > Austrians. There was an uprising and war against the Russians in 1830-1831 but > I don't know if that spilled over into Galicia. I suspect that it affected > the Austrian Kaiser's attitude toward the Poles of Galicia in some way. > > I remember reading a speech by a Polish peasant from Galicia who was elected > to the first Austrian parliament after the 1848 rebellion. He was furious > because they were considering paying some sort of "compensation" to the nobles > for the land they would now own instead of rent. He read a litany of > torturous punishments he had had to endure for virtually no reason and told how he > had to grovel whenever his "lord" was present. He said something like, > "And for THIS I should pay compensation!!!" > > I have not found any similar cases of such harsh landlords in Bohemia (after > about 1830) but that does not mean there were none. The Bishofteinetz > Heimatbuch tells of a nobleman who "punished" a teacher who was a freeman for > marrying the daughter of a serf by making him forfeit his free status. It was > not until after many years that the nobleman finally restored the teacher to > free status -- although by law teachers were supposed to be free. It seems > the nobility could interpret the law as they chose because they were also the > first in line in the justice system and this nobleman chose to ignore or deny > the teacher's many petitions. > > Everything I have heard about the Russians seems to indicate that their > system was perhaps one of the harshest. I believe they continued the 14-17 years > of military service for conscripts long after Austria hadn changed the law to > 3 years active and 9 years in the reserves (about `1868). > > My husband's grandfather was Lithuanian and the family were in an area then > ruled by Russia. His father raised horses. One day he sent the son to market > with a herd and told him that when he sold the horses to take the money and > just keep going to America. Five of his brothers eventually joined him. One > went back for some reason. He got caught and ended up in the Russsian army > for a number of years before he managed to get back to Pennsylvania.. > > Karen > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html

In a message dated 2/28/2006 7:14:58 AM Mountain Standard Time, silvagen@gmail.com writes: Out of curiosity, what makes people think the village is in Galicia? The posting I copied to the GB list came from Catherine Havermeier on the PBS list. She suggested that the book was about Austrian Poland. If the actual references are to Russian Poland then I suspect her assumption was wrong. I would like to comment that a peasant's life could vary somewhat between regions but there were still quite a few similarities as Ms. Havermeier noted when she said that her ancestors from western (Prussian) Poland told of a life very similar to the one described in the book. The Russians were probably the last to do away with serfdom and their peasants probably had a somewhat harsher life than those ruled by the Prussians or Austrians. There was an uprising and war against the Russians in 1830-1831 but I don't know if that spilled over into Galicia. I suspect that it affected the Austrian Kaiser's attitude toward the Poles of Galicia in some way. I remember reading a speech by a Polish peasant from Galicia who was elected to the first Austrian parliament after the 1848 rebellion. He was furious because they were considering paying some sort of "compensation" to the nobles for the land they would now own instead of rent. He read a litany of torturous punishments he had had to endure for virtually no reason and told how he had to grovel whenever his "lord" was present. He said something like, "And for THIS I should pay compensation!!!" I have not found any similar cases of such harsh landlords in Bohemia (after about 1830) but that does not mean there were none. The Bishofteinetz Heimatbuch tells of a nobleman who "punished" a teacher who was a freeman for marrying the daughter of a serf by making him forfeit his free status. It was not until after many years that the nobleman finally restored the teacher to free status -- although by law teachers were supposed to be free. It seems the nobility could interpret the law as they chose because they were also the first in line in the justice system and this nobleman chose to ignore or deny the teacher's many petitions. Everything I have heard about the Russians seems to indicate that their system was perhaps one of the harshest. I believe they continued the 14-17 years of military service for conscripts long after Austria hadn changed the law to 3 years active and 9 years in the reserves (about `1868). My husband's grandfather was Lithuanian and the family were in an area then ruled by Russia. His father raised horses. One day he sent the son to market with a herd and told him that when he sold the horses to take the money and just keep going to America. Five of his brothers eventually joined him. One went back for some reason. He got caught and ended up in the Russsian army for a number of years before he managed to get back to Pennsylvania.. Karen

KarenHob@aol.com wrote: > "The Peasants " by Ladislas Reymont, Knopf 1927 > > is a book recommended for details of the everyday lives of Galician > farmers. I assume it covers both Germans and Poles. The village from Reymont's novel is not in Galicia -- it's in central Poland, under Russian occupation. This is clear from a few scenes and references in the book: conscription/draft scene, references to a Russian prison, the issue of a Russian school. Out of curiosity, what makes people think the village is in Galicia? -Margaret Mikulska silvagen@gmail.com

From: http://time-proxy.yaga.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,728112,00.html The Author. St. Reymont was born in 1868 in what was then Russian Poland. His family was large, poor, patriotic. His mother and her five brothers took part in the Polish insurrection of 1863 against Russia. He, too, is a patriot. He has been telegraph operator, actor, railway clerk, farmer, even spent months in a Paulist monastery. ________ Lavrentiy Krupniak Margaret Mikulska wrote: > > KarenHob@aol.com wrote: > > > "The Peasants " by Ladislas Reymont, Knopf 1927 > > > > is a book recommended for details of the everyday lives of Galician > > farmers. I assume it covers both Germans and Poles. > > The village from Reymont's novel is not in Galicia -- it's in central > Poland, under Russian occupation. This is clear from a few scenes and > references in the book: conscription/draft scene, references to a > Russian prison, the issue of a Russian school. > > Out of curiosity, what makes people think the village is in Galicia? > > -Margaret Mikulska > silvagen@gmail.com > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist.html and request an archive.

Thank you, Karen; An excellent site! Rosina ----- Original Message ----- From: <KarenHob@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 2:43 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] German-American web pages URL > The URL below is titled: > > German-American historic sites and museums. It is well worth checking > out. > > http://www.ulib.iupui.edu/kade/gahist.html#northda > > Karen > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist.html and request an > archive. >