The Roll map does not accurate depict the German settlements in Galicia. _______ Lavrentiy Krupniak aida kraus wrote: > > Galicia was administered by Austria Hungary, just as Bohemia was and > thereby, these two countries were anchored in the same Empire. Looking for > our ancestors most certainly include these settlements. One might think > that going to Ukraine, or if you please, Ruthenia, Belarus or other Russian > states is too far afield, there is - to this day - a recognized German > settlement of 1.2 Million Germans in Russia that might hold ancestral data > for people interested in their German heritage or links that would otherwise > be lost. For the location of these settlements go to: > http://www.rollintl.com/roll/grsettle.htm > Aida Kraus > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@erols.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 8:02 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Re: Galicia > > > > > > > Germans comprised less than 3 per cent of the Galician population. > > They resided in isolated communities. The local populations, especially > > the Rusyns|Ukrainians regarded them as colonists. I would argue that > > the Germans had de minimis effect on the overall conditions in Galicia > > (social, economic, cultural, etc.). > > > > ______ > > > > Lavrentiy Krupniak > > > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist.html and request an archive.

Listers, If you want the Bishofteinetz book, Unser Heimatkreis Bishofteinetz, Your best bet is to have Bob Paulson pick up a book for you while he is in Germany.. If he cannot get enough books or is unable to carry books for everyone who wants one there are other options. There are also other titles listed below that may be of interest to more list members. By the way, Rudy Kiefner whose family Bob Paulson will visit also published: Bezirk Bischofteinitz in alten Ansichtskarten (The area of Bischofteinetz from old postcards) You may be able to get a copy of a book you want from Germany if you contact the Bishofteinetz Heimat Verein. http://www.bischofteinitz.de/verein.htm There are links for Email contact there. Any one of these people might be able to tell you if there are any books available. There is another web page that has links to all the various Heimat Verein. http://www.sudeten.de/bas/index_a.htm If you get the home page, click on LINKS on the left to get the links index. The home page has two greyed out maps of the Sudeten areas of Bohemia on it. I have never found a Heimat website with an English option but you may be able to translate it if you are able to do your search from Google.com. There may be options to [translate this page] if you hit it on Google. Most of these websites will have 1) and Email address link for contact near the webmaster info at the bottom of the page 2) a link for Kontakt at the side of the page 3) a link for Namen und Addressen or just Addressen on the side of the page. 4) Maybe a link for "Betreuer" or "Ortsbetreuer" or "Heimatbetreuer". (contact persons) 5) a picture of an addressed envelope which is a link for Email. Click on any one of those contact links to send the Verein an Email. Sometimes when an elderly person dies his family will give away or sell his books. Heimatbucher may be offered to a Heimat verein. When they know that someone wants one of those books they may notify that person that one is now available. If they do not have a "waiting list" for any books and they already have enough copies in their library they will turn them over to an antiquariat to sell. Look for your ancestral Heimat Vereine and find an Orsbetreuer (place coordinator or contact) you can ask about books including ancestral villages and towns. Sometimes it is the director of the Heimatmuseum who knows about the "extra books". ---------------------------------- Another very good site for searching mutiple antiquariats in Germany and Austria is the ZVAB website or. Zentrales Verzeichnis Antiquarischer Bücher Normally one could search the Internet with ZVAB and the first hit would be the above website. That worked for me today. But when I wanted to go there a second time all my tries were redirected to choosebooks.com http://www.choosebooks.com/SESSz172562949811141521711/gr2/en/index.html I don't know why that happened. I could not get the five hits for that title at the Choosebooks.com website which appears to be the ZVAB general sales page. It lets you choose German or English by clicking on the flag in the upper right of the window. After you find a title you can click on the dealer's link and contact them directly if you wish. There is a bulletin board there where you can post the information about a book that you want. While trying to find the Bishofteinetz book at that website with a search using the word: Heimatkreis I found another book that some list members may want: Heimatkreis Mies-Pilsen (Hrsg) Der Heimatkreis Mies. Land und Leute an Miesa und Radbusa Dinkelsbühl, Heimatkreis Mies-Pilsen, 1962 [ search for this title] 24 x 17 cm, 752 S. mit zahlr. Abbildungen. OLn m. silbergeprägter Deckel- und Rückenbeschriftung, Einband leicht ausgeblichen und Papier altersbedingt etwas gebräunt, guter Zustand. [Keywords: Orts- und Landeskunde Brauchtum; Heimatgeschichte; Kulturgeschichte; Landeskunde; Sudetenland; Tschechien] item number 20344v 10194 further entries found in catalogue Gesamtkatalog offered by Antiquariat an der Universität, Germany ------------------- and --------------- [Landeskunde ] "Heimatkreis Bischofteinitz" (Hg.) Unser Heimatkreis Bischofteinitz mit den deutschen Siedlungen im Bezirk Taus. Herausgeber "Heimatkreis Bischofteinitz" Sitz Furth im Wald o.O., 1967 [ search for this title] [Keywords: Deutschland] language: German item number 1993CB 447 further entries found in catalogue Deutschland offered by Antiquariat Weinek, Austria It is interesting that the keyword Deutschland is used by an Austrian used book dealer to identify a German-Bohemian Heimatbuch!!! ----------------------------- I also found books from the heimats of EGER, MIES , PILSEN , BRAUNAU(er) , ZWITTAU (Schonhengst), and a history of the monastery and city of KLADRAU. I did not search alli 38 hits. To get the same list, search very soon with the word: Heimatkreis at the URL for choosebooks above When I was first able to get the ZVAB home page and not their sales page (Choosebooks.com) I got five hits for Unser Heimatkreis Bischofteinitz There were prices from EU 40 up to EU 67. I managed to copy the data from one before I could no longer get the ZVAB website. It looked like a good buy but when I visited the website for that Antiquariat -- . http://www.antiquariat-pressler.de/ They did not show the title in their catalog so the book may no longer be available. Antiquariat Bernd Preßler, D-34127 Kassel, Germany berndpressler@aol.com Send an Email and ask if the book is still available and at what price. When I order books from an antiquariat I look for the lowest price, the condition of the book and it they take credit cards or not. I always choose a store that takes credit cards because that gives me the best exchantge rate which usually saves more than a cheaper book requiring funds transfer.. Ask for a quote of the cost with air mail to the US as well as one with surface mail. When I ask for airmail it is usually a little over $20 but I have the book in less than 2 weeks. Heimatkreis Mies-Pilsen e.V. (Hrg) (Publisher) Pilsen. Heimatstadt seiner deutschen Bewohner und Metropole an der Sprachgrenze. Ein Lesebuch bearbeitet von Dr. Anton Herzig Dinkelsbühl o.V. 1978 This book about Pilsen as Heimat city of its German residents -- city on the language frontier -- had these notations: [ search for this title] 4° 244 S., (244 pages) S/w Fotos (Photos), Illustrationen u. Karten (illustrations and maps), geprägter grauer Oln, illustr. OSU OSU etwas berieben u. unfrisch, sonst guter Zustand (this last part of the sentence describes the book as generally good condition but it looks used Karen

Jewish and non-Jewish list members may find this conference very helpful. We all know how good most of the Jewish genealogy websites are and many of us use them as the first search for information. Karen Don't miss the exciting, innovative program of lectures, panel discussions, and computer workshops planned for the 26th IAJGS (International Association of Jewish Genealogical Societies) International Conference on Jewish Genealogy this August 13th to 18th at the New York Marriott Hotel in Manhattan, hosted by the Jewish Genealogical Society (New York). Speakers will be coming from many countries, including Australia, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, the US, and Uzbekistan. There will be a comprehensive set of hands-on computer labs teaching everything from genealogical applications of Excel and PowerPoint to accessing JewishGen databases. We will be offering lectures on Ashkenazic and Sephardic genealogy; a series of lectures focusing on Russian genealogy to assist the large Russian émigré population in New York; panel discussions on cemetery restoration in our shtetlekh, genealogy education, genetics and genealogy, and travel for the genealogist; and lectures from librarians and archivists from New York City repositories as well as repositories in the nations from which our ancestors emigrated. Dr. Neville Lamdan, the Director of the new International Institute for Jewish Genealogy in Jerusalem will speak. An interesting article about the conference was published online today at http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3223248,00.html. You'll find additional information about the program, registration, and research in New York City on the conference website at http://www.jgsny2006.org. Joy Rich Co-chair, Repositories Committee International Conference on Jewish Genealogy

1939 map of German settlements in Galicia. The map key explains that the symbols represent where the settlers in each place originated. Some are Germans and others are German-Bohemians. http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/maps/unterschutz.html Instructions to download the map at the site. http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/maps/UnterschutzIndex.html Map index at the second URL Karen .

To Alice Dick, & Others, I will be going to Germany next week and will be meeting with the Kiefner family. They have the Bishofteinitz Heimatbuch available. I may be able to bring a few back with me. I do not know the cost, but it should be less than $50. Please know that the book is in German. If interested contact me at rpaulgb@comcast.net Bob Paulson GBHS Founder On Saturday, March 4, 2006, at 10:42 AM, rzwaschka wrote: > Alice, > > Did you ever get a reply from Karen on the Bischofteintz Heimatbuch? I > would be interested in this as I have many Zwaschka relatives from > this place and the surrounding area. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- From: <AMCMcKenna@aol.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 3:58 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Re: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-D Digest V06 #33 > > >> Karen, you mentioned a "Bischofteinitz Heimatbuch" in your last >> posting. >> >> Where oh where could I get one of those? Either to borrow, but I >> suspect >> I'd really like to buy. >> >> Thanks, Alice >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? >> Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >> > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist.html and request an > archive. >

The latest news on the proposed Federal law that would bar genealogists from searching public records for records of relatives is at: http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2488/

March 01, 2006 Downloadable Genealogy Charts and Forms Looking for some blank forms that you can fill in during your genealogy research? You can download free, high-quality blank forms online from several web sites and print them on your own printer. Family Tree Magazine has a huge collection of downloadable forms on the company's web site. The forms include pedigree charts, research calendars, note-taking forms, deed indexes, research journal, correspondence logs, family group sheets and census extraction forms. You can see this impressive collection of forms at http://www.familytreemagazine.com/forms/download.html Ancestry.com has downloadable forms that are as nice looking as the commercially available forms. You can obtain a pedigree chart (called an Ancestral Chart), Research Calendar, Research Extract, Correspondence Chart, Source Summary and Family Group Sheet. You can do all of this at: http://www.ancestry.com/save/charts/ancchart.htm FamilySearch.org has a collection of online forms, including U.S., British, Irish and Canadian census extraction forms, family group sheets, blank timelines and more. The forms are available at http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/RG/frameset_rhelps.asp?Page=./research/type/Form.asp&ActiveTab=Type About.com offers a number of downloadable genealogy forms, including family tree fan charts, pedigree charts, family group sheets and relationship charts. Take a look at http://genealogy.about.com/od/free_charts/ Misbach Enterprises houses one of the largest collections of downloadable genealogy charts in Adobe PDF format. You can print directly from the web site or store the forms on your local hard drive and then print them later as often as you wish. All the charts are formatted to fit on 8.5" x 11" paper. Go to http://misbach.org/pdfcharts/ All of the above are available free of charge. Posted by Dick Eastman on March 01, 2006 | Permalink Comments These are all good sites to get free PDF forms. But Dick! You forget to mention my site that you have mentioned before. I think I have much better forms that these, that are all FREE. Go here for better charts ;-): http://misbach.org/pdfcharts/ Posted by: Misbach | March 01, 2006 at 03:04 PM Misbach, I think that your "Grandma's Box Chart" is great! Posted by: Dino (All Dino, All the Time) | March 01, 2006 at 05:54 PM I added the Misbach collection. Thanks for pointing that out. Posted by: Dick Eastman | March 01, 2006 at 07:46 PM

The following is from Richard Eastman's genealogy newsletter, March 2: The comments about ProQuest-Heritage Quest seem to indicate that the financial difficulties ProQuest announced may be more than they can overcome. Karen Godfrey Memorial Library Adds Several New Genealogy Databases, Drops Another The following was written by Richard E. Black, Director of the Godfrey Memorial Library: Godfrey Memorial Library is a non-profit physical library that receives no public funding. We receive our funding from the income from the Godfrey Scholar program, annual appeals, AGBI requests and other donations and contributions. Being a non-profit, we are not responsible to investors or others that intend to make a profit from our existence. Since the inception of the scholar program, we have kept the expense of the program to a minimum so that it would be affordable to everyone. That continues to be our goal. The Scholar program is a mixture of sites for which we pay a subscription and free sites that we have reviewed and made available to our scholars. We continue to aggressively add sites to the program. For instance during the month of February, the following content was added. Commonwealth War Graves Commission CT Colonial Connecticut Records CT Pembroke Cemetery in Danbury IN Evansville Area Obituary Search IN Evansville City Cemeteries LA Marriage License Index Caddo Parish 1937 to present MA Salem Witch Trials NY United French and German RC Cemetery OH Cleveland Public Library Necrology Database OH Rutherford B. Hayes Obituary Index The Olden Times Historic Newspaper Collection UT State List of Cemeteries and Burials WV Vital Research Records CO Colorado Historic Newspaper Collection Danish Surnames IL Chicago Tribune Historical Archives In addition, we have added the American County Histories that are available from Accessible Archives. These histories include the states of Delaware, Pennsylvania, Maryland, New Jersey and parts of New York. As more histories become available, we will also acquire them. In the near future, we will be announcing an initiative that will allow us to put many of our collection of books into the scholar program. In addition we are in the process of negotiating with organizations that have additional books available that we will be able to use. From time to time, we are compelled to drop one of our sites. Normally, when this occurs, it is completely out of our control. Such was the case with the Heritage Quest and FindUSA sites. We have come to a point where we are compelled to drop yet another site. The contract renewal for the ProQuest Historic newspapers is due. These papers have been very popular, especially the New York Times. ProQuest has decided that for whatever reason to price these papers at a cost that is completely prohibitive. To give you a perspective the price is an increase of over 1,500 percent of what we paid last year. In fact, if we paid the asking price, it would cost us more than we receive in gross income from the entire Scholar program. It is my understanding that some of the same libraries that offer Heritage Quest also offer some of these newspapers. You might check with your library. I will be sending out an updated list in the next few days. If you do not get yours or if you want a different state please let us know. Simply tell us which state you are interested in. Please do not ask for the entire list, it is well over 50 pages long. In addition ProQuest is rethinking their agreement to allow us to continue to offer the Heritage Quest material until the end of the current subscription period or the end of the year, whichever comes earlier. They have put us on notice that at the end of March, we will be given a contract for the use of that content for the balance of the year. If what they are charging for the ProQuest papers, is reflected in their pricing for the Heritage Quest material, we can expect another exorbitant fee. Again, the price could be prohibitive. We appreciate your continued support. We feel badly that we are unable to continue to provide this very valuable resource. In the past, whenever something like this has happened, we have been buried with e-mail messages. For instance, when we had to drop FindUSA, I personally answered over 1000 e-mails. I will attempt to answer all e-mails that are sent to me, just be aware that at this point I cannot do anything to solve the problem, and it will take a few days for us to respond to your inquiries. Again, thank you for your support Sincerely, Richard E. Black Director, Godfrey Memorial Library 134 Newfield Street Middletown CT 06457 (860) 346-4375 Richard@godfrey.org

Perhaps the person who posted this request for information can help you. Good luck. Christa http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN/2005-03/1111786352 -----Original Message----- From: Karen Kautz [mailto:kkautz@clear.lakes.com] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 10:50 AM To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Grossbach family from Hortau I'm searching for my ancestors which lived in the Hortau area.......They came to USA in June 1856........the family was of 7 children....all born in Bohemia Germany and after they arrived in USA I can account for 5 of the 7 children that came with parents to Wisconsin area and then into Minnesota........2 of their children I can not find any marriage or death records on....Maria Ann Grossbach born 12 July 1846 and Ignaz Grossbach Born 12 April 1853.....could anyone be of help to me in locating these two children to re group the family back together............Thanks you With kind regards. Karen Grossbach Kautz ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/

Kievan Rus' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus' Map of Kievan Rus' principalities: http://www.city.sumy.ua/history/ukraine/map7.jpg _______ Lavrentiy Krupniak . Laurence Krupnak wrote: > > Hello Dan, > > Galicia (or Galizien in German) comes from the term Halychyna > (Galichina). Halychyna was one of the prinicpalities of Kievan Rus' > empire. Kievan Rus' was the largest and maybe the most properous > nation-state in all of Europe during the 9th-13th centuries. We > (Americans, western Europeans, etc.) don't know these facts because > European history taught in schools emphasize Western European history. > Kievan Rus' was dismantled during the mid-13th C. during the invasions > of the Mongol-Tatars. The Mongols made it to the Adriatic Sea and to > Prussia. > > Regarding Ukrainians thinking that Belarusians are Ukrainians, they > also believe that Russians are Ukrainians too! ;-) > ______ > > Lavrentiy Krupniak > > "Daniel R. Killoran,Ph.D." wrote: > > > > On Mar 4, 2006, at 4:00 AM, Bob Paulson wrote: > > > > > There is a fine map of Galicia on the FEEFHS site at: > > > > > > feefhs.org/maps/ah/ah-galic.html > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is very fine indeed - I had no idea Galicia extended as far > > west as the Tatra! > > > > and Lavrentiy Krupniak wrote: > > > > > Belarusians are White Ruthenians. > > > > That's interesting, as my relative tells me that the Ukrainians think > > White Ruthenians are Ukrainians! > > > > I am beginning to think, based on all this information, that > > "Galicia" is just an old word for "miscellaneous"! > > > > Dan Killoran

aida kraus wrote: > > Karen Stanley of Houston found the term White Russian in the special > collections on Russian immigration and politics of the early 20th century of > the Hoover Institute at Stanford. She says the term White Russian was used > in the 18th and 19th centuries to describe ethnic Russians residing in the > area between Russia and Poland (today this includes Lithuania, Ukraine, > Belarus, Latvia, Moldova). Lithuania and Belarus for sure. Latvia and Ukraine ...at the margins Moldova ... absolutely not. > By the 1920s, however, the term was more > commonly used for any Russians who had opposed the Bolshevik Revolution and > supported the imperial government. that's true > For a further understanding of the term > visit the Web site on the subject at www-hoover.stanford.edu/hila/. which webpage of the website http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/hila/ _______ Lavrentiy Krupniak

Germans comprised less than 3 per cent of the Galician population. They resided in isolated communities. The local populations, especially the Rusyns|Ukrainians regarded them as colonists. I would argue that the Germans had de minimis effect on the overall conditions in Galicia (social, economic, cultural, etc.). ______ Lavrentiy Krupniak Aida Kraus wrote: > > Dear Dr. Killoran, > Re.: Galicia, we never cease to learn, right?! And Egerländer > villages even there ...... and with more audio and visual cultural > descriptions than what we can find on our Egerländer websites. > Let me add that the variety in looks between different ethnic > villages "in the East" were significant. For instance in the Banat there > were French and German settlers. Because the Germans brought their teachers > with them and immediately established a school system, the French sent their > children there also and thereby absorbed the German language. When that > "French" part of the Banat was split off and given to Yugoslavia in 1918, > these French people were treated as "Germans" far more brutally in 1945 that > the Banater Germans in Romania. And that is a story that will probably > surface next. > The lower and middle class is looked upon as "lowest"class by > the politicians of a country and are considered "expendable" for the good of > the fatherland........ In reality they are providing the most reliable tax > base for it. Hitler actually recognized that and based the value of the > Mark not on the international market but on the work ethic of the German > people. It was a unique concept which did not teach us "economics" during > that time. All items were price controlled and there was no "shopping" > necessary. You bought the item - regardless where - for the same > price.....and business licenses were granted only for the planned amount of > establishments, so they were only as many shops as a community could support > and they were able to coexist to serve the public instead of "cutting each > other's throat". Money was plentiful, so were material items, like a car > and radio (Volksempfänger and Volkswagen) for everyone, but food was > painfully scarce. It was the effort in obtaining food that started a black > market trade and - therefore - a new economic base. > As far as the settlements went, after the Germans were expelled, > the Czech Government tried to settle Roma people into the many vacated > houses of the Sudetengermans, but were not successful with their good > intention. Maria Theresa of Austria Hungary and Katherina the Great of > Russia knew that with German settlers from the Imperium they would not only > get "farmers" but also "craftsmen" because each small farmer was apprenticed > to a trade. Farms in Germany had become so small, that additional income > sources, like a trade, had become a necessity. Therefore, seeking and > settling such people in unpopulated areas was a sure way to develop the land > in an orderly way, as well as having reliable representation against the > influx of Eastern hordes. It did them no good that Jefferson had his agents > running around to lure this same desirable population to America, and they > had to counteract with more generous offers in the East to retain their > population within Europe. In fact, they - as well - "made use" of these > people to settle and protect the borders of the homeland. The creation of > such well run villages became the envy of many other ethnic groups and the > accumulation of German prosperity was for ever the cherished "bone of > contention" to be taken away, preferable as the 'spoils of some war.' > The vacuum 3 Million Germans had left after the expellation > could not be made up with 900,000 Czech carpetbaggers who had a choice of > 3:1 dwellings. The started in the best, dirtied it, moved to the next, > dirtied it also, but by then their third choice in more remote villages, > were already in neglect and ruin. Our people having lived there for > centuries and each generation contributed to "making it better" and so this > expellation was, indeed, a very painful "operation" where part of their soul > got amputated. Our people had not only prospered, but gave their land their > own soul! Coming back to these once charming hamlets they had left as > children, they came back as grandparents, looking around dumbfounded and > asked "why?"....Nobody had wanted what was wrested from them; often this > process accompanied bloodletting or a family member was clubbed to death. > And so those who still remember ( there are just a few old ones like us left > now) stand in front of our cradle quite forlornly, with head and arms > hanging and tears streaming from our eyes in total incomprehension. They > would have been happy in these tidy hamlets, albeit they would not have > become as rich as they had become in Germany with their big Mercedes now > standing where father's plow once was. But they know that while they were > free to "prosper again" those that had robbed them of their homeland had > been the slaves of Communism. It is the younger Czech people that could > clearly see all this and woke up to the rest of the world. And our group > has withdrawn with an elegant, albeit forced gesture of non-retaliation and > has become absorbed into the "German way of life" ....... or elsewhere in > the world - and thereby has been abolished and eliminated. > Aida > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel R. Killoran,Ph.D." <drkilloran@speakeasy.net> > To: "aida kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:51 AM > Subject: Re: Galicia > > On Mar 2, 2006, at 4:48 PM, aida kraus wrote: > > > From Aida: > > > > > > If you need to know the Jewel of the Austrian Crown for breeding > > horse-stock, look at this link, there is a map for location. And then > > you will know more about Galicia. There were quite a few Egerländer > > settling in Galizien for the mild climate versus the cold Bohemian > > Winters. What you write about poverty may be true about some villages > > and settlements, as they are in Ireland, Yugoslavia and some other > > "Hinterlands". The German settlements, however, and in general - were > > very clean and well maintained, as they came from the same area of > > settlement, mostly the Rhineland, as they were in Hungary, the Batschka, > > Banat and Siebenbuergen. Here are a few links where you can browse and > > then you KNOW where the place is and what it looks like. > > Aida > > > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > > attachments: > > Shortcut to: http://www.machmer.de/ > > http://www.machliniec.de/ > > http://www.polishroots.org/genpoland/gal.htm > > <www.machmer.de.url> > > Thanks for the references! You know, this is the first time I have > ever seen a map showing the exact borders of Galicia - usually the > word is just printed over the modern state info. I had rather > wondered whether it was an actual well-defined region or just a > general area, like "steppes" or "gaeltacht". It seems to be about > twice as large as I had imagined, although in about the right place. > It is interesting to know that there were Germans there - to hear it > talked about, one would imagine the population to be entirely jewish! > > Dan Killoran

Hello Dan, Galicia (or Galizien in German) comes from the term Halychyna (Galichina). Halychyna was one of the prinicpalities of Kievan Rus' empire. Kievan Rus' was the largest and maybe the most properous nation-state in all of Europe during the 9th-13th centuries. We (Americans, western Europeans, etc.) don't know these facts because European history taught in schools emphasize Western European history. Kievan Rus' was dismantled during the mid-13th C. during the invasions of the Mongol-Tatars. The Mongols made it to the Adriatic Sea and to Prussia. Regarding Ukrainians thinking that Belarusians are Ukrainians, they also believe that Russians are Ukrainians too! ;-) ______ Lavrentiy Krupniak "Daniel R. Killoran,Ph.D." wrote: > > On Mar 4, 2006, at 4:00 AM, Bob Paulson wrote: > > > There is a fine map of Galicia on the FEEFHS site at: > > > > feefhs.org/maps/ah/ah-galic.html > > > > > > Yes, it is very fine indeed - I had no idea Galicia extended as far > west as the Tatra! > > and Lavrentiy Krupniak wrote: > > > Belarusians are White Ruthenians. > > That's interesting, as my relative tells me that the Ukrainians think > White Ruthenians are Ukrainians! > > I am beginning to think, based on all this information, that > "Galicia" is just an old word for "miscellaneous"! > > Dan Killoran

I'm searching for my ancestors which lived in the Hortau area.......They came to USA in June 1856........the family was of 7 children....all born in Bohemia Germany and after they arrived in USA I can account for 5 of the 7 children that came with parents to Wisconsin area and then into Minnesota........2 of their children I can not find any marriage or death records on....Maria Ann Grossbach born 12 July 1846 and Ignaz Grossbach Born 12 April 1853.....could anyone be of help to me in locating these two children to re group the family back together............Thanks you With kind regards. Karen Grossbach Kautz

Alice, Did you ever get a reply from Karen on the Bischofteintz Heimatbuch? I would be interested in this as I have many Zwaschka relatives from this place and the surrounding area. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: <AMCMcKenna@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 3:58 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Re: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-D Digest V06 #33 > Karen, you mentioned a "Bischofteinitz Heimatbuch" in your last posting. > > Where oh where could I get one of those? Either to borrow, but I suspect > I'd really like to buy. > > Thanks, Alice > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html > >

Galicia was administered by Austria Hungary, just as Bohemia was and thereby, these two countries were anchored in the same Empire. Looking for our ancestors most certainly include these settlements. One might think that going to Ukraine, or if you please, Ruthenia, Belarus or other Russian states is too far afield, there is - to this day - a recognized German settlement of 1.2 Million Germans in Russia that might hold ancestral data for people interested in their German heritage or links that would otherwise be lost. For the location of these settlements go to: http://www.rollintl.com/roll/grsettle.htm Aida Kraus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@erols.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Re: Galicia > > > Germans comprised less than 3 per cent of the Galician population. > They resided in isolated communities. The local populations, especially > the Rusyns|Ukrainians regarded them as colonists. I would argue that > the Germans had de minimis effect on the overall conditions in Galicia > (social, economic, cultural, etc.). > > ______ > > Lavrentiy Krupniak > >

On Mar 4, 2006, at 4:00 AM, Bob Paulson wrote: > There is a fine map of Galicia on the FEEFHS site at: > > feefhs.org/maps/ah/ah-galic.html > > Yes, it is very fine indeed - I had no idea Galicia extended as far west as the Tatra! and Lavrentiy Krupniak wrote: > Belarusians are White Ruthenians. That's interesting, as my relative tells me that the Ukrainians think White Ruthenians are Ukrainians! I am beginning to think, based on all this information, that "Galicia" is just an old word for "miscellaneous"! Dan Killoran

on 3/3/06 7:45 PM, Laurence Krupnak at LKrupnak@erols.com wrote: > Dr. Killoran wrote: > > >> Thanks for the references! You know, this is the first time I have >> ever seen a map showing the exact borders of Galicia - usually the >> word is just printed over the modern state info. I had rather >> wondered whether it was an actual well-defined region or just a >> general area, like "steppes" or "gaeltacht". > > > History of Galicia: > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_%28Central_Europe%29 > > http://www.halgal.com/galicia.html > > > >> It seems to be about >> twice as large as I had imagined, although in about the right place. >> It is interesting to know that there were Germans there - to hear it >> talked about, one would imagine the population to be entirely jewish! > > > > > > Overall 1907 statistics: > > http://www.halgal.com/1907popbylang.html > > > 1931 Eastern Galician provinces: > > http://www.halgal.com/1931popbylang.html > > > > >> Dan Killoran > > _______ > > Lavrentiy Krupniak > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html > There is a fine map of Galica on the FEEFHS site at: feefhs.org/maps/ah/ah-galic.html Bob Paulson

Dr. Killoran wrote: > Thanks for the references! You know, this is the first time I have > ever seen a map showing the exact borders of Galicia - usually the > word is just printed over the modern state info. I had rather > wondered whether it was an actual well-defined region or just a > general area, like "steppes" or "gaeltacht". History of Galicia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_%28Central_Europe%29 http://www.halgal.com/galicia.html > It seems to be about > twice as large as I had imagined, although in about the right place. > It is interesting to know that there were Germans there - to hear it > talked about, one would imagine the population to be entirely jewish! Overall 1907 statistics: http://www.halgal.com/1907popbylang.html 1931 Eastern Galician provinces: http://www.halgal.com/1931popbylang.html > Dan Killoran _______ Lavrentiy Krupniak

aida kraus wrote: > > Karen Stanley of Houston found the term White Russian in the special > collections on Russian immigration and politics of the early 20th century of > the Hoover Institute at Stanford. She says the term White Russian was used > in the 18th and 19th centuries to describe ethnic Russians residing in the > area between Russia and Poland (today this includes Lithuania, Ukraine, > Belarus, Latvia, Moldova). Lithuania and Belarus for sure. Latvia and Ukraine ...at the margins Moldova ... absolutely not. > By the 1920s, however, the term was more > commonly used for any Russians who had opposed the Bolshevik Revolution and > supported the imperial government. that's true > For a further understanding of the term > visit the Web site on the subject at www-hoover.stanford.edu/hila/. which webpage of the website http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/hila/ _______ Lavrentiy Krupniak