Probably not much help, however: Have 1961 Telephone Directory for Dysart, Tama Co., Iowa. Shows Karl Aschenbrenner living on a farm outside of town and Mrs. Rose Ashenbrenner at 506 Jefferson st. in Dysart. The directory also has the town of Traer but no Aschenbrenner listed. My CZ roots come from Jince, Picin, Masecin, Davle, Hlubos, all in an area 15-25 miles south of Prague. Best of searching. Bill Houdek bhoudek@swbell.net Ballwin, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry and Susan" <tmcnelley@comcast.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:18 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Ancestry in Markt Eisenstein, Bohemia > Hi to all > > I have recently joined the mailing list. My great-grandparents were > George Aschenbrenner and Monika Bredl. They were ethnic Germans born in > Markt Eisenstein in Bohemia, a couple of miles from the Bavarian border. > This town is now Zelezna Ruda in the Czech Republic. George and Monika > immigrated to northern Wisconsin in 1877 with two young children. I am > interested in finding out as much as possible about life in the Bohmerwald > villages. Does anyone else on the mailing list have family roots in Markt > Eisenstein? Or Aschenbrenner or Bredl ancestors? Any good sources of > information (in English) out there? >

Hi, Try www.bayerisch-eisenstien.de/english/geschichte.hmtl -----Original Message----- From: Terry and Susan [mailto:tmcnelley@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:18 PM To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Ancestry in Markt Eisenstein, Bohemia Hi to all I have recently joined the mailing list. My great-grandparents were George Aschenbrenner and Monika Bredl. They were ethnic Germans born in Markt Eisenstein in Bohemia, a couple of miles from the Bavarian border. This town is now Zelezna Ruda in the Czech Republic. George and Monika immigrated to northern Wisconsin in 1877 with two young children. I am interested in finding out as much as possible about life in the Bohmerwald villages. Does anyone else on the mailing list have family roots in Markt Eisenstein? Or Aschenbrenner or Bredl ancestors? Any good sources of information (in English) out there? By the way, I have found the mailing list discussions on Bohemian history fascinating! A great learning experience! Thanks for any assistance you can provide! Susan ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To browse the archives, go to: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/

Hi to all I have recently joined the mailing list. My great-grandparents were George Aschenbrenner and Monika Bredl. They were ethnic Germans born in Markt Eisenstein in Bohemia, a couple of miles from the Bavarian border. This town is now Zelezna Ruda in the Czech Republic. George and Monika immigrated to northern Wisconsin in 1877 with two young children. I am interested in finding out as much as possible about life in the Bohmerwald villages. Does anyone else on the mailing list have family roots in Markt Eisenstein? Or Aschenbrenner or Bredl ancestors? Any good sources of information (in English) out there? By the way, I have found the mailing list discussions on Bohemian history fascinating! A great learning experience! Thanks for any assistance you can provide! Susan

Hello, Becky, I have so little on the Benesch family that I can't say for sure ... but I won't say no for now anyway! :-) Our Benesch family is in Cleveland, OH as of late 1880's at least. It may turn out to have been sooner than that. At some point I'll have better information, and I'll certainly pass along anything I uncover. Our Albert BENESCH was the brother of Elsie who married our Uncle Arnold WEIL in the early 1900's. I haven't an exact birth date for any of them yet, only knowledge that they were related to my husband's mother Edith WEIL - DAVIS. Bob (my husband) says Uncle Al Benesch was a "mover and shaker" in Cleveland in his prime and we should uncover something more about him on our next trip to Western reserve Historical Society or the CSU Library's Memories section . Hopefully that'll happen sometime this spring. We have such a good group of Gen-People in this area! Will keep your address on file ... in case of a super find! Thanks for "checking in". Maybe we'll both "get lucky". Jo ----- Original Message ----- From: <Becky.Champion@equifax.com> To: <scenmkr106@wowway.com> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Aida's link to Roll Map, re Galicia Settlements > Jo: > > I see you are also looking for BENESCH - I am looking for Josef Benes > (could have been BENESCH), who immigrated from Bohemia to St. Louis, MO. > My > Josef Benes married Johanna Pinker, who immigrated in 1892. I'm not sure > when Josef came over - but it would have been before 1892. He was already > here, and the marriage was pre-arranged. Josef's sister, Catherine, > married > Johanna's brother, Anton. Could this be any part of your history? > > Thanks, > > Becky > .................................................................. > "Jo Davis" > <scenmkr106@wowway.com > > To GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com > 03/13/2006 10:44 AM > > Subject Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Aida's link > Please respond to Roll Map, re Galicia Settlements > > Laurence ... > Thank you so much for your contribution to my search for ancestors in that > part of Europe you are so familiar with! Sharing info with all of us is a > sure-fire way to "climb fences" no matter what generation of descendants > we > are, or where we find ourselves on planet Earth at this moment, in this > century! > > Your links are so useful to me ... in many more ways than I had imagined. > > Keep up the good work ... > > Jo DAVIS > also looking for WEIL, WEISKOPF, and BENESCH ... "over there" > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@erols.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:12 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Aida's link to Roll Map, re Galicia > Settlements > > >> >> Hello Jo, >> >> The Roll map has "Galacia", but there is no "Galacia," nor is >> Galicia spelled "Galacia" and "Galacia" is not where Galicia was >> located. >> >> Galicia is a former territory whose areal extent now lies in the >> nation-states of Poland and Ukraine - about 3/5 of Galicia is in >> west-central Ukraine (the L'viv, Ternopil, and Ivano-Frankivsk oblasts >> of Ukraine) and 2/5ths is in southeastern Poland. The Roll map has no >> indication that there were German settlements in that area. Halychyna >> (in Ukrainian) (Galicja in Polish), was called Galizien by the Austrians >> who invited Germans to colonize Galicia in the late 1700s. >> >> A group called Galizien German Descendants has excellent maps which >> show the location of former German colonies in Galicia. Germans >> comprised about 2.5 percent of the population of Galicia. >> >> Jews comprised about 10 percent of the Galician population: >> >> >> http://www.halgal.com/1907popbyrel.html >> >> Jews resided in Galicia long before Germans were invited to colonize >> in the 1700s. Jews were invited in by former Polish landowners, etc. >> during the 14-17th C. >> >> _______ >> >> Lavrentiy Krupniak >> ............................................ >> >> Jo Davis wrote: >>> >>> What's missing or wrong with this 1700 - 1800 German-Russian Settlement >>> map, Lavrentiy? << http://www.rollintl.com/roll/grsettle.htm >> >>> >>> Would you, then, know anything about 'Jewish'-German local settlers in >>> this time frame? Were they part of this "settlement" movement back >>> then? >>> How about the early 1900's? >>> >>> I appreciate any comments. >>> >>> Jo Davis

This is a stunning map, Laurence! I just downloaded it now, as the internet was "jammed" yesterday when I tried to get it. By the way, do you prefer Laurence or Lavrentiy on your e-mails? Thank you VERY much! Jo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@erols.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Aida's link to Roll Map, re Galicia Settlements > Jo, > > The map shows the German settlement areas within Galicia province. > > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nepek.gif > > > Ne~met is German (in Magyar (Hungarian) language). > > Cseh = Czech > > Lengyel = Polish > > ruten = Ruthenian (Ukrainian) > > etc. > > ______ > > Lavrentiy Krupniak > > > > > > > Laurence Krupnak wrote: >> >> Hello Aida, >> >> Good map of Austro-Hungarian Empire in Hungarian language: >> >> http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/nepek.gif >> >> Galicia province is upper right side. >> >> ______ >> >> Lavrentiy Krupniak >> >> aida kraus wrote: >> > >> > Please enlighten me as to where Galacia is, I cannot find any reference >> > on >> > any website, I am always referred to Galicia, Galizien! HELP, where is >> > IT? >> > Aida >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@erols.com> >> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 1:12 PM >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Aida's link to Roll Map, re Galicia >> > Settlements >> > >> > > >> > > Hello Jo, >> > > >> > > The Roll map has "Galacia", but there is no "Galacia," nor is >> > > Galicia spelled "Galacia" and "Galacia" is not where Galicia was >> > > located. >> > > >> > > Galicia is a former territory whose areal extent now lies in the >> > > nation-states of Poland and Ukraine - about 3/5 of Galicia is in >> > > west-central Ukraine (the L'viv, Ternopil, and Ivano-Frankivsk >> > > oblasts >> > > of Ukraine) and 2/5ths is in southeastern Poland. The Roll map has >> > > no >> > > indication that there were German settlements in that area. >> > > Halychyna >> > > (in Ukrainian) (Galicja in Polish), was called Galizien by the >> > > Austrians >> > > who invited Germans to colonize Galicia in the late 1700s. >> > > >> > > A group called Galizien German Descendants has excellent maps >> > > which >> > > show the location of former German colonies in Galicia. Germans >> > > comprised about 2.5 percent of the population of Galicia. >> > > >> > > Jews comprised about 10 percent of the Galician population: >> > > >> > > >> > > http://www.halgal.com/1907popbyrel.html >> > > >> > > Jews resided in Galicia long before Germans were invited to >> > > colonize >> > > in the 1700s. Jews were invited in by former Polish landowners, etc. >> > > during the 14-17th C. >> > > >> > > _______ >> > > >> > > Lavrentiy Krupniak >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Jo Davis wrote: >> > >> >> > >> What's missing or wrong with this 1700 - 1800 German-Russian >> > >> Settlement >> > >> map, >> > >> Lavrentiy? >> > >> << http://www.rollintl.com/roll/grsettle.htm >> >> > >> >> > >> Would you, then, know anything about 'Jewish'-German local settlers >> > >> in >> > >> this >> > >> time frame? Were they part of this "settlement" movement back then? >> > >> How >> > >> about the early 1900's? >> > >> >> > >> I appreciate any comments. >> > >> >> > >> Jo Davis > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/277 - Release Date: 3/8/2006 > >

Hello Aida; Although I now know that my Mikula's are not from Bohemia, as I originally thought, I will stay on this list mainly to read your, oh, such knowledgeable comments on the Bohemian topic. Well done and many thanks! Rosina T. Schmidt www.dvhh.org/hrastovac

yes, you are outstanding Aida. You have given so many, both personal help, and historical knowledge, that many of us would never have got any other way. You must have so many stories to tell! Keep it up, everyone enjoys reading your info. Jack Knott (Prokosch family from the Bischofteinitz area, maybe Trohatin, or Hostau) ----- Original Message ----- From: "aida kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 2:27 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] thanks >I am thanking everyone for the overwhelming expressions of appreciation to >my comments. I received so many in such a short time, that I am unable to >thank you individually. Again I thank you! > Aida > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html > >

There are many version, one is even a famous stage play by Friedrich Schiller who does not have it right either! But 1634 and 1643 may be a transposition. It is a fact that Wallenstein's death was the trigger to the Westphalian Peace and that was in 1648!! Perhaps a descendant of Wallenstein (one of which is a famous developer of new condominiums at Marienbad) is reading this and could enlighten us? Aida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Ullman" <ullman@easystreet.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:52 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Re: Defenestration > Aida - > > You may want to check your details concerning Wallenstein's murder and his > place in the Thirty Years' War. I have two sources which place his death > at 25 February 1634, not 1643. This is important because the war was only > about halfway over and continued for another fourteen years after he died. > It is true, however, that his death began the final phase of the war in > which the focus moved to the struggle to control the Rhine and the > disintegration of Spanish power. Following these two periods there was a > prolonged peace conference during which fighting continued. > > In addition, there is at least one other version of Wallenstein's murder. > C.V. Wedgwood in her classic The Thirty Years War, wrote that Wallenstein > began to exhibit odd behaviors. "He would have no officers come into his > room in jingling spurs, he would have straw laid in the neighbouring > streets to mute the rattle of wheels on cobbles, he killed the dogs, cats > and cocks wherever he lodged, he had a servant hanged for waking him in > the night, he kept special bravos for the immediate chastisement of > visitors who talked too loudly." (p. 337) > > Wedgwood describes the actual murder as follows: "Butler's dragoons > rushed the doors while the traitors sat at dinner and overpowered them > almost at once. Trcka alone, immensely strong, fought his way out into > the courtyard. There he was met by a group of musketeers who challenged > him for the password. 'Sankt Jakob,' he called. It was the word > Wallenstein had given. 'House of Austria,' they out-shouted him, and > battered him down with the butt ends of their muskets, until one of them > gave him the coup de grace with a dagger. An Englishman, Captain Devereux > dispatched Wallenstein. Breaking into his lodgings with a few companions, > he kicked open the bedroom door to find him undefended. Wallenstein was > at the window; turning he faced his murderers, stumbled forward, moaned > something which might have been a cry for quarter and fell transfixed. A > huge Irishman picked up the crumpled body and tried to throw it out of the > window, but Devereux, with some remnant of decency,! > stopped him and hastily rolled the corpse in the bloodstained carpet on > which it had fallen." Quoting from page 136 of Poyntz' Historia delle > Guerre (1643), "Presently (they) drew him out by the heels, his head > knocking upon every stair, all bloody, and threw him in a coach and > carried him to the castle where the rest lay naked close together and > there he had the superior place of them, being the right hand file, which > they could not do less, being so great a general." (pp. 349-350) > > My other source, which confirms the date of Wallenstein's murder but does > not detail his death, is The Thirty Years' War by Geoffrey Parker, (1984, > 1987 Military Heritage Press, NY). > > In another, more romanticized version which I have somewhere else, > Wallenstein is pictured as bravely baring his chest to his attackers > inviting them to do their job. > > Bob Ullman > ullman@easystreet.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: aida kraus > To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:48 PM > Subject: Defenestration > > > The first defenestration was during the Hussite wars in 1419 at Prague , > and the second is the "famous one" which started the 30 years war > (1618-1648) when they booted 7 members of the council out of the > Hradschin's window. The end of this religious war was Wallenstein's > assassination at Eger in 1643 which lead to the Westphalian peace 1648. > Wallenstein was assassinated by his own Catholics because they > misunderstood his efforts for peace between the warring parties as > treason. After so many years of religious war there were not many > inhabitants left. To assassinate Wallenstein, they killed his officers > at a banquet and this was done by Catholic Scotsmen Leslie, Butler and > Gordon who fought on the side of the German Kaiser. Wallenstein himself > was run through with a spear while he was asleep in his bed by a Frenchman > named Deveroux on the orders of the German Kaiser for whom Wallenstein had > fought battles for 25 years. If you travel to Eger you can visit the > ol! > d ! > rooms where this happened. The last defenestration was of Jan Mazaryk, > the son of the first president of Czechoslovakia Thomas Mazaryk in 1948. > If you are interested read this link below. Aida > http://www.iup.edu/politicalscience/courses/ps101/d-westph.htm > > ______________________________ > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >

Aida - You may want to check your details concerning Wallenstein's murder and his place in the Thirty Years' War. I have two sources which place his death at 25 February 1634, not 1643. This is important because the war was only about halfway over and continued for another fourteen years after he died. It is true, however, that his death began the final phase of the war in which the focus moved to the struggle to control the Rhine and the disintegration of Spanish power. Following these two periods there was a prolonged peace conference during which fighting continued. In addition, there is at least one other version of Wallenstein's murder. C.V. Wedgwood in her classic The Thirty Years War, wrote that Wallenstein began to exhibit odd behaviors. "He would have no officers come into his room in jingling spurs, he would have straw laid in the neighbouring streets to mute the rattle of wheels on cobbles, he killed the dogs, cats and cocks wherever he lodged, he had a servant hanged for waking him in the night, he kept special bravos for the immediate chastisement of visitors who talked too loudly." (p. 337) Wedgwood describes the actual murder as follows: "Butler's dragoons rushed the doors while the traitors sat at dinner and overpowered them almost at once. Trcka alone, immensely strong, fought his way out into the courtyard. There he was met by a group of musketeers who challenged him for the password. 'Sankt Jakob,' he called. It was the word Wallenstein had given. 'House of Austria,' they out-shouted him, and battered him down with the butt ends of their muskets, until one of them gave him the coup de grace with a dagger. An Englishman, Captain Devereux dispatched Wallenstein. Breaking into his lodgings with a few companions, he kicked open the bedroom door to find him undefended. Wallenstein was at the window; turning he faced his murderers, stumbled forward, moaned something which might have been a cry for quarter and fell transfixed. A huge Irishman picked up the crumpled body and tried to throw it out of the window, but Devereux, with some remnant of decency,! stopped him and hastily rolled the corpse in the bloodstained carpet on which it had fallen." Quoting from page 136 of Poyntz' Historia delle Guerre (1643), "Presently (they) drew him out by the heels, his head knocking upon every stair, all bloody, and threw him in a coach and carried him to the castle where the rest lay naked close together and there he had the superior place of them, being the right hand file, which they could not do less, being so great a general." (pp. 349-350) My other source, which confirms the date of Wallenstein's murder but does not detail his death, is The Thirty Years' War by Geoffrey Parker, (1984, 1987 Military Heritage Press, NY). In another, more romanticized version which I have somewhere else, Wallenstein is pictured as bravely baring his chest to his attackers inviting them to do their job. Bob Ullman ullman@easystreet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: aida kraus To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:48 PM Subject: Defenestration The first defenestration was during the Hussite wars in 1419 at Prague , and the second is the "famous one" which started the 30 years war (1618-1648) when they booted 7 members of the council out of the Hradschin's window. The end of this religious war was Wallenstein's assassination at Eger in 1643 which lead to the Westphalian peace 1648. Wallenstein was assassinated by his own Catholics because they misunderstood his efforts for peace between the warring parties as treason. After so many years of religious war there were not many inhabitants left. To assassinate Wallenstein, they killed his officers at a banquet and this was done by Catholic Scotsmen Leslie, Butler and Gordon who fought on the side of the German Kaiser. Wallenstein himself was run through with a spear while he was asleep in his bed by a Frenchman named Deveroux on the orders of the German Kaiser for whom Wallenstein had fought battles for 25 years. If you travel to Eger you can visit the ol! d ! rooms where this happened. The last defenestration was of Jan Mazaryk, the son of the first president of Czechoslovakia Thomas Mazaryk in 1948. If you are interested read this link below. Aida http://www.iup.edu/politicalscience/courses/ps101/d-westph.htm ______________________________

In a message dated 3/13/2006 6:58:17 AM Mountain Standard Time, jmugnolo@erols.com writes: Now - how do I find the ship manifests/passenger lists for that ship and that year?? 1. First search the Internet with: ship Brandenburg 1907. 2. Check the information you can find at the emigration museum Bremen. Search the internet with those three words http://www.dah-bremerhaven.de/index_flash.html Click on English. Explore that site thoroughly for an Email contact and send them a query about the Brandenburg and its passenger lists for 1907. 3. Find out if your local library offers access to ProQuest/'Heritage Quest databases or to Ancestry.com databases. If so you can just type in a surname and the search engine results should include all possibilities including sound-alikes. There may be a choice of hits for 1907. 4. Ancestry.com is also available at local LDS Family History Centers. It is a bit cumbersome to use but after you learn the system the databases are very valuable. 5. HeritageQuest was available through the Godfrey Library subscription system but the latest reports say they are dropping it. I believe the subscription to access their databases is about $35 per year. 6. The LDS also has the ships manifests on film. You can order them and view them in your local FHC. 7. Also check out the NARA website http://www.archives.gov/research/ Karen

This website is a great one for Canadian immigrants: http://ist.uwaterloo.ca/~marj/genealogy/thevoyage.html It has lists of ships arriving at Canadian ports and may also be helpful to American researchers whose ancestors came to the US through Canada. Karen

I am thanking everyone for the overwhelming expressions of appreciation to my comments. I received so many in such a short time, that I am unable to thank you individually. Again I thank you! Aida

http://www.landesversammlung.cz/verschiedenes_lv.html The above website has photos of churches under restoration in Egerland. The page is not yet finished -- is under construction. Karen

Those who may have connections to Germans still in CR may find an ancestral place listed in the addresses on this page that will put them in contact with that local group http://www.landesversammlung.cz/unsere_organisation.html Some CR contact Edresses are at that URL. This page is Links at the "Verbleibenen Egerlander" website: http://www.egerlaender.cz/links.html The links take you to various German culture groups / clubs - mostly outside CR.. This is one page linked there: http://www.landesversammlung.cz/wer_sind_wir.html Karen

You have to use German search words to find the websites about the German minority culture groups in CR. All the sites are in German. I used: Deutsch minderheit gruppe Egerland I have not found the site I know is out there that lists all the groups, their locations and contacts. http://www.egerlaender.cz/ http://www.landeszeitung.cz/archiv/2001/index.php?edt=17&id=11 Check the links at the page above. http://www.landeszeitung.cz/archiv/2001/index.php?edt=13&id=08 http://www.egerlaender.cz/jv_bddle02.htm http://www.dtsg.de/monitor593.html at http://www.dtsg.de/monitor.html

In a message dated 3/13/2006 7:58:45 AM Mountain Standard Time, LKrupnak@erols.com writes: I now seek thoughts/opinions about would have been the likely relationship of Czechs and Sudeten Germans in Czechoslavakia after World War II if the Sudeten Germans were not deported to Germany after World War II. There are two main categories of Germans who stayed in CZ: Germans who stayed in CZ in 1945 included those who had Czech spouses and opted to stay on their land if they were given the opportunity. Germans who had jobs that had no immediate Czech replacement. They were not permitted to leave even if they wanted to so they could train someone to do their work whatever it was. I once researched the subject of ethnic Germans still living in CR on the Internet. I found there is about 50,000 of them. They have been allowed to form German culture societies and they publish newsletters. Their largest group appears to be in the Egerland. I cannot find any of the URLs for their groups at the moment and cannot recall how I found them before. There is an interesting page at: http://www.radio.cz/en/article/27184 Karen

List Members, One item which has not been mentioned in the recent discusions, is that between 1919 and 1938, not all the Sudeten Germans were inclined to be part of the German Reich. Czechoslovakia had a multiparty membership and a high number of the German speaking population belonged to a Social Democratic party (i.e. similar to the NDP in Canada or the Labour Party in England) , the Communist Parrty had also a considerable membership. They were represented in the Czech Parlament and persecuteded by the Nazi Party. Many members of the SDP party escaped to England and a number also settled in Canada. This Antinazi group was not recognized after WW 2 in Czechoslovakia and a number of the members settled in Germany or remained abroad. Herb Schwarz, Ontario,Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "richard anderson" <andyandkathy@cox.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Laurences question. >I have on line the complete Moletein book if any one wants one let me > know... It is very interesting.. I have it on pdf and can email it to > you.. > Kathy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@erols.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:08 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Laurences question. > > > > Thanks Aida, Karen, and Frank. > > I now seek thoughts/opinions about would have been the likely > relationship of Czechs and Sudeten Germans in Czechoslavakia after World > War II if the Sudeten Germans were not deported to Germany after World > War II. > > ______ > > Lavrentiy > > . > > > > Frank Soural wrote: >> >> Here is Laurence Krupniacs question. >> >> I know, but my question is why Bohemian Germans didn't also move to >> democratic Germany after WWI if they didn't like the Czechoslovakian >> government (i.e. the post-World War I CZ government)? >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> Laurence. There are several reasons why this has not happened on a large >> scale. >> >> A good portion of Sudeten Germans (including myself) grew up in a > bilingual >> culture It was natural for us to switch instantly into Czech and back > again, >> when needed. So it was not a question of "not liking" the CZ government >> in >> Prague. I am sure my parents and GP's accepted the Prague Government as a >> fact of life. >> >> Furthermore, The German areas had been colonized in a big way since 1254 > AD >> on behest of the Bohemian King Ottokar II and his faithful servant the > good >> Bishop of Olmuetz (Olomouc)Bruno von Schaumburg who helped him settle the >> North Eastern part of Bohemia and Moravia. Our villages were our "Heimat" >> our Homeland and there was no reason for anyone to abandon >> our places just because we did not like the Government in Prague. >> I am sure you can draw a parallel with your own situation in the US. >> >> >From reading about the Sudeten history I conclude that all that was > demanded >> in 1918 by the German areas was to be granted democratic rights of "Self >> Determination" preferably under Austria or under a Federal Government >> in Prag. Neither was granted. Aida recently gave us an account of the 54 > who >> were shot by the Czechs during a peaceful demonstration. By 1945 there > were >> 3.5 million of us among roughly 8 million, in a "Multi Nation State" that >> Czechoslovakia always was, since it's inception. >> >> The concept of "Heimat" is very powerful notion that affects people, >> particularly when they have lost it. Because of this closeness to what is > no >> longer theirs the Sudeten's are often labeled neo Nazis which >> I personally find to be utter hogwash and out of touch with reality. >> >> I have researched several topics dear to my heart, pertaining to the >> early >> German settlements which were subsequently published as articles in "Nase >> Rodina" and the "FEEFHS Journal". You may have come across them. >> >> If you need a refresher I'd be glad to send them to you electronically. >> >> Titles that may be of interest: >> >> . The early German Settlements in North eastern Moravia, >> Subtitled: And what the Pied Piper of Hamelin had to do with it. >> >> . The Celts in Moravia. With additional information on recent >> Archeological digs and kind permission of the Museum in >> Moravska Trebova. (Mährisch Trübau). >> >> Frank > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html > > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > >

Aida and the other wonderful contributors to this mailing list: I am so impressed with your knowledge of my ancestor's homeland! I greatly appreciate any insite from your responses and information that gives me a better understanding of what the "world" was like for my ancestors. I am from the same area as Aida--Einsiedl and Marienbad. I often wondered why, on their applications for US citizenship, they put Austria as their homeland. Now I know--they were Austrians. From the little information I've learned from other Utschig's (my surname) from this area, the expulsion from their homes was quite dramatic, too. It is good to get more stories which solidifies more to me the stories I have heard. Thank you all again for all the wonderful information and insites you give us all at this site!! Sincerely, Mary Utschig Read

Laurence ... Thank you so much for your contribution to my search for ancestors in that part of Europe you are so familiar with! Sharing info with all of us is a sure-fire way to "climb fences" no matter what generation of descendants we are, or where we find ourselves on planet Earth at this moment, in this century! Your links are so useful to me ... in many more ways than I had imagined. Keep up the good work ... Jo DAVIS also looking for WEIL, WEISKOPF, and BENESCH ... "over there" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Krupnak" <LKrupnak@erols.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Aida's link to Roll Map, re Galicia Settlements > > Hello Jo, > > The Roll map has "Galacia", but there is no "Galacia," nor is > Galicia spelled "Galacia" and "Galacia" is not where Galicia was > located. > > Galicia is a former territory whose areal extent now lies in the > nation-states of Poland and Ukraine - about 3/5 of Galicia is in > west-central Ukraine (the L'viv, Ternopil, and Ivano-Frankivsk oblasts > of Ukraine) and 2/5ths is in southeastern Poland. The Roll map has no > indication that there were German settlements in that area. Halychyna > (in Ukrainian) (Galicja in Polish), was called Galizien by the Austrians > who invited Germans to colonize Galicia in the late 1700s. > > A group called Galizien German Descendants has excellent maps which > show the location of former German colonies in Galicia. Germans > comprised about 2.5 percent of the population of Galicia. > > Jews comprised about 10 percent of the Galician population: > > > http://www.halgal.com/1907popbyrel.html > > Jews resided in Galicia long before Germans were invited to colonize > in the 1700s. Jews were invited in by former Polish landowners, etc. > during the 14-17th C. > > _______ > > Lavrentiy Krupniak > ............................................ > > Jo Davis wrote: >> >> What's missing or wrong with this 1700 - 1800 German-Russian Settlement >> map, >> Lavrentiy? >> << http://www.rollintl.com/roll/grsettle.htm >> >> >> Would you, then, know anything about 'Jewish'-German local settlers in >> this >> time frame? Were they part of this "settlement" movement back then? How >> about the early 1900's? >> >> I appreciate any comments. >> >> Jo Davis

Karen ... Thanks for this map of the region I'm trying to learn more about. Among you, Aida and Laurence, I'm beginning to get a "view" not only of the terrain, but of life and its conflicts out of which we all emerged today. We'll ALL climb Mount Everest yet! Jo Davis, DAVIS, WEIL, WEISKOPF, and BENESCH in middle Europe ... somewhere! ----- Original Message ----- From: <KarenHob@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 3:26 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Map of German settlements in Galicia > 1939 map of German settlements in Galicia. > The map key explains that the symbols represent where the settlers in each > place originated. Some are Germans and others are German-Bohemians. > > http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/maps/unterschutz.html > > Instructions to download the map at the site. > > http://www.semanchuk.com/gen/maps/UnterschutzIndex.html > > Map index at the second URL > > Karen