I am once again banging my head against the seemingly undestroyable brick wall-find Ehrl's with little information in what was Bohmen(Bohemia). I am wondering how common this surname is in the region, and how I would go about researching it-or finding someone whom I could hire to research it for me? All I know is this-my ggggrandfather was Simon Ehrl. He was born in Bohmen ( this is as specific as the information I can find gets) in 1779 to Adam and Barbro Ehrl. He went to Sweden in about 1803 as a glassblower. This leads me to believe that his father was probably a glassblower in Bohmen as well. I am at a loss as to how to proceed if it is even possible, given the limited information I have. I cannot read the language. Can anyone give me suggestions or ideas or the names of people who might be of assistance? Thank you, Linda Nelson

Mary, Jewish people often converted to Catholicism in Bohemia. Mine were Jewish at Prague in 1651 and Catholic in Schuettenhofen Bohemia and Vienna in 1700. So were actually Senator Kerry's ancestors, who are from Silesia, Moravia and Austria. There was a good reason for it, the Habsburg Empire did not do business with Jews very much, so anyone operating a business had better success as a Catholic church-goer and the conversion of Hebrew names to German phonetics was quite common. Schubert: is actually a short version of Schuhmacher (shoemaker). Also Schuwert. This name is found in Saxony, Silesia and Austria. The most famous of course is composer Fanz Schubert! The name was recorded in 1361 as Vierczigmark Schuworcht, and in 1417 there is a Heynmann Schuwort without a location, Matis Schuwert 1451 in the Silesian Glatz and in Dux, Bohemia the name is recorded in 1390 as Waczlab Schubort. It is also spelled Schubart. Aida ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <mpettyjohn@comcast.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > Aida, thank you. I misspelled Schubert. Would you mind seeing if > Schubert is listed. Now that is interesting about Fieber and Gold. Pam > has often wondered if we had Jewish ancestors even though Josef's family > were Catholic. > > Mary > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> > >> Rabel and Hyncica are most likely Czech names. The German version would >> be >> Rabl from Rabe (raven) found in Bavaria. >> Fieber and Gold is not listed, you might find it in with a Jewish name >> search. >> Schuert or Schürt is not listed there either. Sorry, dear, but this did >> not >> pan out very well. >> Aida >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:10 PM >> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon >> >> >> > Awesome news about Schramm. Thank you Pam for sending this request. Now >> > we might have some leads on additional ancestors of Joseph. Aida, thank >> > you for looking for Pam. We are cousins. Some other names we are >> > researching thanks to a professional researcher we hired to research >> > our >> > great grandfather Josef Michalek ancestors are >> > Rabel >> > Hyncica >> > Fieber >> > Gold >> > Schuert >> > >> > Aida, would you be so kind to look in your Lexicon to see if any of the >> > above names ore in it. >> > >> > Thank you and Blessing, >> > >> > Mary Pettyjohn >> > >> > -------------- Original message -------------- >> > From: "Helen" >> > >> >> Hello Aida, >> >> Could Schram, Schramm be the same as SCHRAMEK? >> >> >> >> Could that magic book of yours find; >> >> >> >> LOY in Steiermark; >> >> PEKAR in Bohmerwald >> >> SCHRAMEK anywhere, possibly in Moravia? >> >> All German, Catholic, and for sure in mid 1700's before emmigrating to >> >> Bukovina >> >> 1800. >> >> >> >> This web site is the best. Thanks to you and Karen. I read every entry >> >> and >> >> save many many as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. >> >> >> >> You two are THE BEST!!!!! >> >> Helen White >> >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> > Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing >> >> > listed >> >> > under >> >> > Frierdich! >> >> > Michalek is a Czech name. >> >> > Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the >> >> > Lexicon. >> >> > Stoppich, ditto as above >> >> > Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded >> >> > for >> >> > one >> >> > Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel >> >> > 1396 at >> >> > Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is >> >> > recorded >> >> > as Schremmel in 1353. >> >> > Aida >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Pam" >> >> > To: >> >> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM >> >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? >> >> > > >> >> > > Frierdich >> >> > > >> >> > > Michalek >> >> > > >> >> > > Steppig/Stoppich >> >> > > >> >> > > Schramm >> >> > > >> >> > > thanks! >> >> > > Pam >> > >> > >> > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? >> > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >> > >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >> list? To >> search the archives, go to: >> http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN >

Helen, Schramek and Schramm are different ethnic names. Schramek is definitely Czech. So is Pekar, because this is means Baker in Czech. Loy: a hit .... this is the short version for Eulogius, or in French St. Eloy, Patron Saint for goldsmiths and also for horses. There is an Eulogius Chapel at Bingen on the Rhine. Records of this name exist: Balthasar Loy Eligius in Salzburg , Austria 1541, Loye Seng was recorded 1441 at Rottweil, Eulogius is related to other abbreviation of names like Ley, Gloy and Gley. Phonetically it is pronounced like Leu which means lion: listed there is "Gerardus qui leonem occidit" which roughly means Gerardus, the killer of a lion. Maybe a gladiator? Aida --------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen" <hwhitemc@msn.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > Hello Aida, > Could Schram, Schramm be the same as SCHRAMEK? > > Could that magic book of yours find; > > LOY in Steiermark; > PEKAR in Bohmerwald > SCHRAMEK anywhere, possibly in Moravia? > All German, Catholic, and for sure in mid 1700's before emmigrating to > Bukovina 1800. > > This web site is the best. Thanks to you and Karen. I read every entry > and save many many as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. > > You two are THE BEST!!!!! > Helen White > ----------------------------------------------------- > >> Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing listed >> under >> Frierdich! >> Michalek is a Czech name. >> Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the Lexicon. >> Stoppich, ditto as above >> Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded for >> one >> Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel 1396 >> at >> Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is >> recorded >> as Schremmel in 1353. >> Aida >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Pam" <pam@ewebexpress.com> >> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >> >> >> > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? >> > >> > Frierdich >> > >> > Michalek >> > >> > Steppig/Stoppich >> > >> > Schramm >> > >> > thanks! >> > Pam >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> >> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:11 AM >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >> > >> > >> > Pinker is fairly common in Bohemia and Austria. It has several origins. >> > There is Pinkernagel (ping-pang from a hammer) who was a smith making >> > nails, >> > this name shows up in 1491 in Erfurt, Thuringia. That is to the North >> > of >> > Bohemia. And then there is Pinkus which is a writer or clerk in Latin >> > and >> > that "Pink" syllable here is not associated with the sound of a hammer, >> > but >> > means the Latin word pinkus which is a writer, a clerk. This name is >> > found >> > in Olmütz, Bohemia, where in 1358 Petrus Pinkusser is the scribe of a >> > document. --- And be inventive, google "Bremen Shiplists", "Surname >> > search" >> > etc. etc. >> > Aida >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: <Becky.Champion@equifax.com> >> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:35 AM >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yes - I agree with Prussia for Anton's notation. Since he came in 1883 >> >> and >> >> Johanna came so much later, I didn't know if perhaps her notation of >> >> Klattau was more recent. Also, I have one great-uncle still living, >> >> and >> >> he >> >> thinks he remembers them changing the Benes surname from Benesch or >> >> Benesh >> >> - so the German might not be too far-fetched. Do you know if the >> >> surname >> >> Pinker was very common in that region? They would be the ones I would >> >> like >> >> to track down the most. The only reason I'm interested in >> >> Benes/Benesch >> >> is >> >> that perhaps they came from the same area. But Benes/Benesch is not >> >> blood >> >> related to me. >> >> >> >> You mention Bremen shiplists. How would I find those? (that sounds >> >> like a >> >> fairly exciting lead...) >> >> >> >> I'd also like to add my thanks to you and Karen - between the two of >> >> you, >> >> I >> >> learn so much, and am totally fascinated! >> >> >> >> Becky >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "Aida Kraus" >> >> <akibb1@verizon.n >> >> et> >> >> To >> >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com >> >> 05/10/2006 06:28 >> >> cc >> >> PM >> >> >> >> Subject >> >> Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing >> >> Please respond to search for family... >> >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L >> >> @rootsweb.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Becky: >> >> What you have been typing as PreuBen is Preußen the ß is a German >> >> double >> >> ss >> >> >> >> or "sharp S", so.... they were from Prussia! >> >> Since Silesia was also a part of Austria Hungary but was lost to >> >> Prussia >> >> in >> >> the Austrian Prussian war, and since this area is bordering on what is >> >> now >> >> the Czech Republic, it could well be that they are from that part. (Of >> >> course the Czech Republic or Czechoslovakia did not exist as yet in >> >> March >> >> of >> >> 1892, so there would be no reference to it on that manifest, because >> >> that >> >> country did not yet exist.) So, when they left they were either from >> >> Prussia, Austria, Galicia or Poland. But it could very well be that >> >> they >> >> came from an area which later became part of the newly formed >> >> Czechoslovakia in 1919, and that was long after they had left there. >> >> The surname Benes, written as such or with an s at the end, >> >> would >> >> indicate that they were of Czech ethnicity, while when their name is >> >> spelled >> >> with sch at the end, like Benesch, they were most likely a German >> >> family. >> >> Since this name is as common in the Czech Republic (as Smith is here >> >> in >> >> America) you will have a hard time to find the correct location. Your >> >> clue >> >> is the recording "Preussen". So it is in the general area I listed >> >> before. >> >> Actually, you can only go by whatever lead documents or letters you >> >> can >> >> find, or by remembering a village name, or perhaps you could go back >> >> to >> >> the >> >> >> >> passenger list (not upon their arrival) but from where they sailed, >> >> because >> >> >> >> sometimes they listed the places of origin in the Bremen shipslists. >> >> The >> >> Bremen shiplists should have an alphabetical index. like the Ellis >> >> Island >> >> register. Look for Benes and Benesch and see if someone has Preussen >> >> (Prussia) and the same first names listged on it, and then, perhaps, >> >> you >> >> may >> >> be able to narrow it down. I certainly hope so. Good luck! >> >> Aida >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: <Becky.Champion@equifax.com> >> >> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:31 AM >> >> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Hello, all! I am renewing a search for my genealogy block in the CR. >> >>> My >> >>> G-G-Grandmother, Johanna Pinker, came over in March of 1892 (she was >> >>> 29), >> >>> with her 6 year old son, Gordian (the passenger manifest has him >> >>> listed >> >> as >> >>> Kordian). The manifest lists their origination as Klattau. She would >> >> never >> >>> speak of where she came from, nor who sired Gordian. Johanna's >> >>> brother, >> >>> Anton (Tony) came over in June of 1883, with an place of origin >> >>> listed >> >>> as >> >>> PreuBen. The name below him on the manifest shows Catherine Benes, >> >>> whom >> >> he >> >>> married. Catherine's brother, Josef, married Johanna after she came >> >>> over >> >>> in >> >>> 1892. Josef adopted Gordian, who then became Gordian Benes. >> >>> >> >>> I'm trying to trace Johanna and/or Anton back to the CR, but have had >> >>> no >> >>> success. Family stories have been passed down that Johanna was >> >>> "deathly >> >>> afraid" of anyone in uniform. That may indicate to me that she was >> >>> raped, >> >>> or something else traumatic happened to her. As she would not speak >> >>> of >> >> her >> >>> homeland, I have no idea what trials she faced. >> >>> >> >>> Any help or direction would be much appreciated! >> >>> >> >>> Thanks, >> >>> >> >>> Becky >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be >> >>> confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, >> >> please >> >>> refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this >> >>> information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have >> >>> received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail >> >>> postmaster@equifax.com. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> >>> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >> >>> list? To search the archives, go to: >> >>> >> >> http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> >> Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! >> >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be >> >> confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, >> >> please >> >> refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this >> >> information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have >> >> received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail >> >> postmaster@equifax.com. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> >> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >> >> list? To browse the archives, go to: >> >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ >> >> >> > >> > >> > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! >> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > >> > >> > >> > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! >> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To browse the archives, go to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ >

Rabel and Hyncica are most likely Czech names. The German version would be Rabl from Rabe (raven) found in Bavaria. Fieber and Gold is not listed, you might find it in with a Jewish name search. Schuert or Schürt is not listed there either. Sorry, dear, but this did not pan out very well. Aida --------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <mpettyjohn@comcast.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:10 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > Awesome news about Schramm. Thank you Pam for sending this request. Now > we might have some leads on additional ancestors of Joseph. Aida, thank > you for looking for Pam. We are cousins. Some other names we are > researching thanks to a professional researcher we hired to research our > great grandfather Josef Michalek ancestors are > Rabel > Hyncica > Fieber > Gold > Schuert > > Aida, would you be so kind to look in your Lexicon to see if any of the > above names ore in it. > > Thank you and Blessing, > > Mary Pettyjohn > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Helen" <hwhitemc@msn.com> > >> Hello Aida, >> Could Schram, Schramm be the same as SCHRAMEK? >> >> Could that magic book of yours find; >> >> LOY in Steiermark; >> PEKAR in Bohmerwald >> SCHRAMEK anywhere, possibly in Moravia? >> All German, Catholic, and for sure in mid 1700's before emmigrating to >> Bukovina >> 1800. >> >> This web site is the best. Thanks to you and Karen. I read every entry >> and >> save many many as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. >> >> You two are THE BEST!!!!! >> Helen White >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> >> > Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing listed >> > under >> > Frierdich! >> > Michalek is a Czech name. >> > Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the >> > Lexicon. >> > Stoppich, ditto as above >> > Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded for >> > one >> > Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel >> > 1396 at >> > Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is >> > recorded >> > as Schremmel in 1353. >> > Aida >> > ------------------------------------------------------------- >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Pam" >> > To: >> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >> > >> > >> > > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? >> > > >> > > Frierdich >> > > >> > > Michalek >> > > >> > > Steppig/Stoppich >> > > >> > > Schramm >> > > >> > > thanks! >> > > Pam > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >

To Cynthia: Wordelmann = or any derivative has no listing in the name lexicon. That does not mean it did not exist spelled that way, but it may not be German, but Dutch, Flemish, Danish, Norse or Swedish. I suggest that you look in those areas because Prussia was close to all these \Nordic countries. Check out some of their surname search engines. From the name alone you cannot trace your ancestry, you have to establish a lead document. THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT! Aida ------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnson, Cynthia" <CJohnson@mpr.org> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:12 AM Subject: RE: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > Aida, > I am fascinated by your discussion of the name Wohlmann. My > paternal grandmother's name was Wordelmann. I am having trouble tracing > the family beyond "West Prussia" -- and wonder if it too is a derivation > or variation of Waldmann. Thank you for any insight you might be able > to share. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aida Kraus [mailto:akibb1@verizon.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:24 PM > To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > For Pam: > Wohlmann is a German name and could be from anywhere in Germany. My > name > Lexicon refers to Wohlmann as: > Wohltmann, a name from Northern Germany, a derivation of Waldmann = man > of > the Forest. And there is a Woldmann and Woltmann originating in the > area > of Hamburg. There is no mention of any other place, but you may go to > the > website and key in Woltmann, and check for a site where the frequency of > > last names are given in relation to a map of the country. I don't have > this > at my fingertips right now, because I am just programming my new > computer > and all the old files are not yet transferred. But just hit the URLS on > > Google and Yahoo websites, even German Yahoo websites with questions > like: > "surnames and areas" etc. eventually you should get to that map. Type > in > the last name and then it should show spots where these names occur to > this > day, you can also go to the Hamburg telephone book white pages and look > at > Woltmann. Go to the ships manifest at Bremen and search 1878 > departures > of that name, perhaps they wrote down the area where they came from. > Aida > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "PJ V" <netkitty@hotmail.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 4:53 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > >> Aida: >> >> I wonder if you could tell me what area my Bohemian surname of Wohlman > >> would likely be from? They immigrated in 1878 from the port of > Bremen. >> Their origin was said to be Bohemia in the beginning but later they > stated >> either Germany or Austria around 1900. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Pam >> >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >> list? To browse the archives, go to: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ >> > > ______________________________ > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >

Linda: Too bad, this is not enough to go on, Bohemia is a large country with many small villages and they could have come from anywhere. If he was a glassblower this would narrow down the area a bit to the mountainous areas. But which ones? Gablonz, now Jablonec, is the most famous glass industry city. But there are also glass makers in the Ore Mountains (Erzgebirge), the Altvater Mountains, the Riesengebirge. See.... it is impossible to go on such a small lead and you would throw $800 plus away if you don't have more to give to a genealogist than that, because the initial search would be immensely costly. The way I would proceed, Linda, is this: call your neighborhood Mormon church and ask them, if they have a Family Research Center. If they do, go to the clerk and ask her if there is a microfilm on all the Uppsala churches registers. Tell them that you would be interested in going through all the death records looking for an ancestor. There you just may find your link. This will cost you only $3.50 for each microfilm and they have microfilm readers there to be used for free. They also have microfilm copy machines at $0.25 per copy. And with this copy in hand you then can go to a Czech genealogist,and you will have a properly spelled name and maybe a reference to the town where the deceased was born. Even if it is not Simon or Barbora (this would be the Bohemian spelling for a Czech girl, or Barbara for a German girl), that you might find, perhaps you find some other entry of any other spelling of Eherl, Ehrle,etc. perhaps a child that was born to them and had died, because then the parents would be listed also. This would give you a bona fide "lead document." So, up you go to the LDS Family Research Center and focus on Uppsala! Aida --------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <Scrig@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Ehrl (Erl, Earl, Eherl) Surname > Aida, > I have no lead document-just the information that he was born in Bohmen > to Adam and Barbro Ehrl. This information came from Swedish documents > found > in Uppsala, Sweden so I assume they are church records. > Linda > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN >

Hello Aida, Could Schram, Schramm be the same as SCHRAMEK? Could that magic book of yours find; LOY in Steiermark; PEKAR in Bohmerwald SCHRAMEK anywhere, possibly in Moravia? All German, Catholic, and for sure in mid 1700's before emmigrating to Bukovina 1800. This web site is the best. Thanks to you and Karen. I read every entry and save many many as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. You two are THE BEST!!!!! Helen White ----------------------------------------------------- > Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing listed under > Frierdich! > Michalek is a Czech name. > Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the Lexicon. > Stoppich, ditto as above > Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded for one > Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel 1396 at > Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is recorded > as Schremmel in 1353. > Aida > ------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pam" <pam@ewebexpress.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > > > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? > > > > Frierdich > > > > Michalek > > > > Steppig/Stoppich > > > > Schramm > > > > thanks! > > Pam > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> > > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:11 AM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > > > > > Pinker is fairly common in Bohemia and Austria. It has several origins. > > There is Pinkernagel (ping-pang from a hammer) who was a smith making > > nails, > > this name shows up in 1491 in Erfurt, Thuringia. That is to the North of > > Bohemia. And then there is Pinkus which is a writer or clerk in Latin and > > that "Pink" syllable here is not associated with the sound of a hammer, > > but > > means the Latin word pinkus which is a writer, a clerk. This name is > > found > > in Olmütz, Bohemia, where in 1358 Petrus Pinkusser is the scribe of a > > document. --- And be inventive, google "Bremen Shiplists", "Surname > > search" > > etc. etc. > > Aida > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <Becky.Champion@equifax.com> > > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:35 AM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Yes - I agree with Prussia for Anton's notation. Since he came in 1883 > >> and > >> Johanna came so much later, I didn't know if perhaps her notation of > >> Klattau was more recent. Also, I have one great-uncle still living, and > >> he > >> thinks he remembers them changing the Benes surname from Benesch or > >> Benesh > >> - so the German might not be too far-fetched. Do you know if the surname > >> Pinker was very common in that region? They would be the ones I would > >> like > >> to track down the most. The only reason I'm interested in Benes/Benesch > >> is > >> that perhaps they came from the same area. But Benes/Benesch is not blood > >> related to me. > >> > >> You mention Bremen shiplists. How would I find those? (that sounds like a > >> fairly exciting lead...) > >> > >> I'd also like to add my thanks to you and Karen - between the two of you, > >> I > >> learn so much, and am totally fascinated! > >> > >> Becky > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> "Aida Kraus" > >> <akibb1@verizon.n > >> et> To > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com > >> 05/10/2006 06:28 cc > >> PM > >> Subject > >> Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing > >> Please respond to search for family... > >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L > >> @rootsweb.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Becky: > >> What you have been typing as PreuBen is Preußen the ß is a German double > >> ss > >> > >> or "sharp S", so.... they were from Prussia! > >> Since Silesia was also a part of Austria Hungary but was lost to Prussia > >> in > >> the Austrian Prussian war, and since this area is bordering on what is > >> now > >> the Czech Republic, it could well be that they are from that part. (Of > >> course the Czech Republic or Czechoslovakia did not exist as yet in March > >> of > >> 1892, so there would be no reference to it on that manifest, because that > >> country did not yet exist.) So, when they left they were either from > >> Prussia, Austria, Galicia or Poland. But it could very well be that they > >> came from an area which later became part of the newly formed > >> Czechoslovakia in 1919, and that was long after they had left there. > >> The surname Benes, written as such or with an s at the end, would > >> indicate that they were of Czech ethnicity, while when their name is > >> spelled > >> with sch at the end, like Benesch, they were most likely a German > >> family. > >> Since this name is as common in the Czech Republic (as Smith is here in > >> America) you will have a hard time to find the correct location. Your > >> clue > >> is the recording "Preussen". So it is in the general area I listed > >> before. > >> Actually, you can only go by whatever lead documents or letters you can > >> find, or by remembering a village name, or perhaps you could go back to > >> the > >> > >> passenger list (not upon their arrival) but from where they sailed, > >> because > >> > >> sometimes they listed the places of origin in the Bremen shipslists. > >> The > >> Bremen shiplists should have an alphabetical index. like the Ellis > >> Island > >> register. Look for Benes and Benesch and see if someone has Preussen > >> (Prussia) and the same first names listged on it, and then, perhaps, you > >> may > >> be able to narrow it down. I certainly hope so. Good luck! > >> Aida > >> ------------------------------ > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: <Becky.Champion@equifax.com> > >> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:31 AM > >> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > >> > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hello, all! I am renewing a search for my genealogy block in the CR. My > >>> G-G-Grandmother, Johanna Pinker, came over in March of 1892 (she was > >>> 29), > >>> with her 6 year old son, Gordian (the passenger manifest has him listed > >> as > >>> Kordian). The manifest lists their origination as Klattau. She would > >> never > >>> speak of where she came from, nor who sired Gordian. Johanna's brother, > >>> Anton (Tony) came over in June of 1883, with an place of origin listed > >>> as > >>> PreuBen. The name below him on the manifest shows Catherine Benes, whom > >> he > >>> married. Catherine's brother, Josef, married Johanna after she came over > >>> in > >>> 1892. Josef adopted Gordian, who then became Gordian Benes. > >>> > >>> I'm trying to trace Johanna and/or Anton back to the CR, but have had no > >>> success. Family stories have been passed down that Johanna was "deathly > >>> afraid" of anyone in uniform. That may indicate to me that she was > >>> raped, > >>> or something else traumatic happened to her. As she would not speak of > >> her > >>> homeland, I have no idea what trials she faced. > >>> > >>> Any help or direction would be much appreciated! > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Becky > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be > >>> confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, > >> please > >>> refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this > >>> information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have > >>> received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail > >>> postmaster@equifax.com. > >>> > >>> > >>> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > >>> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > >>> list? To search the archives, go to: > >>> > >> http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > >>> > >> > >> > >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > >> Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be > >> confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, > >> please > >> refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this > >> information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have > >> received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail > >> postmaster@equifax.com. > >> > >> > >> > >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > >> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > >> list? To browse the archives, go to: > >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ > >> > > > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > >

What lead document do you have that you cannot read. If you scan it, I will be happy to check it out for you and translate the content. If we can find a location, meaning the village or district, it will then be possible for a researcher in the Czech Republic to go after the records. Just knowing the surname in its various spellings is not enough to find the location. The combination with the first names could be helpful in this. Ehle or Ehler is a very old name from the 6th century (Egil in Old Gothic means the tip of a sword) The Westgotic King Agila was named for it. Aida ----- Original Message ----- From: <Scrig@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 3:58 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Ehrl (Erl, Earl, Eherl) Surname >I am once again banging my head against the seemingly undestroyable brick > wall-find Ehrl's with little information in what was Bohmen(Bohemia). I > am > wondering how common this surname is in the region, and how I would go > about > researching it-or finding someone whom I could hire to research it for me? > > All I know is this-my ggggrandfather was Simon Ehrl. He was born in > Bohmen > ( this is as specific as the information I can find gets) in 1779 to Adam > and > Barbro Ehrl. He went to Sweden in about 1803 as a glassblower. This > leads > me to believe that his father was probably a glassblower in Bohmen as > well. > I am at a loss as to how to proceed if it is even possible, given the > limited > information I have. I cannot read the language. > > Can anyone give me suggestions or ideas or the names of people who might > be > of assistance? > Thank you, > Linda Nelson > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >

Enter through the front door: http://www.worldroots.com/ _______ Lavrentiy Krupniak "Daniel R. Killoran,Ph.D." wrote: > > Still no luck - just an empty window > > Dan Killoran > > On May 11, 2006, at 1:18 PM, GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-D-request@rootsweb.com > wrote: > > From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> > Date: May 11, 2006 10:50:22 AM EDT > To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] royal genealogical table website > > Try to key in "Johann of Luxembourg, King of Bohemia." > Aida > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel R. Killoran,Ph.D." > <drkilloran@speakeasy.net> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:17 AM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] royal genealogical table website > > > On May 11, 2006, at 9:51 AM, Aida Kraus wrote: > > > >> You can check the royal genealogical table at: http:// > >> www.worldroots.com/cgi-bin/gasteldb?@I109418@. > >> > > Aida, I tried this website and it came up blank! > > > > > Dan Killoran > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/

Still no luck - just an empty window Dan Killoran On May 11, 2006, at 1:18 PM, GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> Date: May 11, 2006 10:50:22 AM EDT To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] royal genealogical table website Try to key in "Johann of Luxembourg, King of Bohemia." Aida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel R. Killoran,Ph.D." <drkilloran@speakeasy.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:17 AM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] royal genealogical table website > On May 11, 2006, at 9:51 AM, Aida Kraus wrote: > >> You can check the royal genealogical table at: http:// >> www.worldroots.com/cgi-bin/gasteldb?@I109418@. >> > Aida, I tried this website and it came up blank! > > Dan Killoran >

thank you so much ... mmmm Yes, I've been including the various spelling of Frierdich/Friedrich ect... the early census' that I can find in the states and all the records of my near relatives (back to 1800's) in the St. Clair, Monroe County of IL all spell it as Frierdich .. so I was trying to follow that - but as soon as I cross over the sea, I can only find the Friedrich :-) .. I was told it mean to 'freeze' .. not sure... Intersting that you would hav Schrammer/Schramme/Schramecht/Schremmel ... for my Schramm name and have scar for that!! I was told tht my Stoppich which I just remembered comes out of Alsace, France (sorry) ALSO meant SCAR ... now .. is as for one who doesn't believe in coincidences...what are the odds of that happening!?? I'll add this info to my files - thansk Aida! Pam in Missouri ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ Warrenton, MO http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing listed under Frierdich! Michalek is a Czech name. Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the Lexicon. Stoppich, ditto as above Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded for one Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel 1396 at Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is recorded as Schremmel in 1353. Aida ------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam" <pam@ewebexpress.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? > > Frierdich > > Michalek > > Steppig/Stoppich > > Schramm > > thanks! > Pam > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:11 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > > Pinker is fairly common in Bohemia and Austria. It has several origins. > There is Pinkernagel (ping-pang from a hammer) who was a smith making > nails, > this name shows up in 1491 in Erfurt, Thuringia. That is to the North of > Bohemia. And then there is Pinkus which is a writer or clerk in Latin and > that "Pink" syllable here is not associated with the sound of a hammer, > but > means the Latin word pinkus which is a writer, a clerk. This name is > found > in Olmütz, Bohemia, where in 1358 Petrus Pinkusser is the scribe of a > document. --- And be inventive, google "Bremen Shiplists", "Surname > search" > etc. etc. > Aida > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Becky.Champion@equifax.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:35 AM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > >> >> >> >> >> Yes - I agree with Prussia for Anton's notation. Since he came in 1883 >> and >> Johanna came so much later, I didn't know if perhaps her notation of >> Klattau was more recent. Also, I have one great-uncle still living, and >> he >> thinks he remembers them changing the Benes surname from Benesch or >> Benesh >> - so the German might not be too far-fetched. Do you know if the surname >> Pinker was very common in that region? They would be the ones I would >> like >> to track down the most. The only reason I'm interested in Benes/Benesch >> is >> that perhaps they came from the same area. But Benes/Benesch is not blood >> related to me. >> >> You mention Bremen shiplists. How would I find those? (that sounds like a >> fairly exciting lead...) >> >> I'd also like to add my thanks to you and Karen - between the two of you, >> I >> learn so much, and am totally fascinated! >> >> Becky >> >> >> >> >> "Aida Kraus" >> <akibb1@verizon.n >> et> To >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com >> 05/10/2006 06:28 cc >> PM >> Subject >> Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing >> Please respond to search for family... >> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L >> @rootsweb.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Becky: >> What you have been typing as PreuBen is Preußen the ß is a German double >> ss >> >> or "sharp S", so.... they were from Prussia! >> Since Silesia was also a part of Austria Hungary but was lost to Prussia >> in >> the Austrian Prussian war, and since this area is bordering on what is >> now >> the Czech Republic, it could well be that they are from that part. (Of >> course the Czech Republic or Czechoslovakia did not exist as yet in March >> of >> 1892, so there would be no reference to it on that manifest, because that >> country did not yet exist.) So, when they left they were either from >> Prussia, Austria, Galicia or Poland. But it could very well be that they >> came from an area which later became part of the newly formed >> Czechoslovakia in 1919, and that was long after they had left there. >> The surname Benes, written as such or with an s at the end, would >> indicate that they were of Czech ethnicity, while when their name is >> spelled >> with sch at the end, like Benesch, they were most likely a German >> family. >> Since this name is as common in the Czech Republic (as Smith is here in >> America) you will have a hard time to find the correct location. Your >> clue >> is the recording "Preussen". So it is in the general area I listed >> before. >> Actually, you can only go by whatever lead documents or letters you can >> find, or by remembering a village name, or perhaps you could go back to >> the >> >> passenger list (not upon their arrival) but from where they sailed, >> because >> >> sometimes they listed the places of origin in the Bremen shipslists. >> The >> Bremen shiplists should have an alphabetical index. like the Ellis >> Island >> register. Look for Benes and Benesch and see if someone has Preussen >> (Prussia) and the same first names listged on it, and then, perhaps, you >> may >> be able to narrow it down. I certainly hope so. Good luck! >> Aida >> ------------------------------ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <Becky.Champion@equifax.com> >> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:31 AM >> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello, all! I am renewing a search for my genealogy block in the CR. My >>> G-G-Grandmother, Johanna Pinker, came over in March of 1892 (she was >>> 29), >>> with her 6 year old son, Gordian (the passenger manifest has him listed >> as >>> Kordian). The manifest lists their origination as Klattau. She would >> never >>> speak of where she came from, nor who sired Gordian. Johanna's brother, >>> Anton (Tony) came over in June of 1883, with an place of origin listed >>> as >>> PreuBen. The name below him on the manifest shows Catherine Benes, whom >> he >>> married. Catherine's brother, Josef, married Johanna after she came over >>> in >>> 1892. Josef adopted Gordian, who then became Gordian Benes. >>> >>> I'm trying to trace Johanna and/or Anton back to the CR, but have had no >>> success. Family stories have been passed down that Johanna was "deathly >>> afraid" of anyone in uniform. That may indicate to me that she was >>> raped, >>> or something else traumatic happened to her. As she would not speak of >> her >>> homeland, I have no idea what trials she faced. >>> >>> Any help or direction would be much appreciated! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Becky >>> >>> >>> >>> This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be >>> confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, >> please >>> refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this >>> information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have >>> received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail >>> postmaster@equifax.com. >>> >>> >>> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >>> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >>> list? To search the archives, go to: >>> >> http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN >>> >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be >> confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, >> please >> refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this >> information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have >> received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail >> postmaster@equifax.com. >> >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >> list? To browse the archives, go to: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?dis play=titledetails&titleno=398182&disp=Namenskartei+aus+den+%22Bremer+Schiffs li%20%20&columns=*,0,0 I did a search by clicking on the 'Library' tab and then the 'Family History Library Catalog" using the search term 'Bremer Schiffslisten' from the http://feefhs.org/FRL/spl/bremenmf.html website. I looks to me like you need to order the film from LDS. Kathy -----Original Message----- From: Becky.Champion@equifax.com [mailto:Becky.Champion@equifax.com] Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:47 AM To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Bremen Ships List That's great, but is there a way to do an online search? If not, can these be ordered via LDS? Thanks, b./ "Kathleen Gregory" <gregory@giantcom To m.net> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com cc 05/11/2006 09:40 AM Subject [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Bremen Ships List Please respond to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L @rootsweb.com http://feefhs.org/FRL/spl/bremenmf.html Is this the Bremen Ships List you are referring to? Kathy ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail postmaster@equifax.com. ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html

On May 11, 2006, at 9:51 AM, Aida Kraus wrote: > You can check the royal genealogical table at: http:// > www.worldroots.com/cgi-bin/gasteldb?@I109418@. Aida, I tried this website and it came up blank! Dan Killoran

Aida, I am fascinated by your discussion of the name Wohlmann. My paternal grandmother's name was Wordelmann. I am having trouble tracing the family beyond "West Prussia" -- and wonder if it too is a derivation or variation of Waldmann. Thank you for any insight you might be able to share. -----Original Message----- From: Aida Kraus [mailto:akibb1@verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:24 PM To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... For Pam: Wohlmann is a German name and could be from anywhere in Germany. My name Lexicon refers to Wohlmann as: Wohltmann, a name from Northern Germany, a derivation of Waldmann = man of the Forest. And there is a Woldmann and Woltmann originating in the area of Hamburg. There is no mention of any other place, but you may go to the website and key in Woltmann, and check for a site where the frequency of last names are given in relation to a map of the country. I don't have this at my fingertips right now, because I am just programming my new computer and all the old files are not yet transferred. But just hit the URLS on Google and Yahoo websites, even German Yahoo websites with questions like: "surnames and areas" etc. eventually you should get to that map. Type in the last name and then it should show spots where these names occur to this day, you can also go to the Hamburg telephone book white pages and look at Woltmann. Go to the ships manifest at Bremen and search 1878 departures of that name, perhaps they wrote down the area where they came from. Aida ----- Original Message ----- From: "PJ V" <netkitty@hotmail.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > Aida: > > I wonder if you could tell me what area my Bohemian surname of Wohlman > would likely be from? They immigrated in 1878 from the port of Bremen. > Their origin was said to be Bohemia in the beginning but later they stated > either Germany or Austria around 1900. > > Thanks. > > Pam > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To browse the archives, go to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ > ______________________________

That's great, but is there a way to do an online search? If not, can these be ordered via LDS? Thanks, b./ "Kathleen Gregory" <gregory@giantcom To m.net> GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com cc 05/11/2006 09:40 AM Subject [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Bremen Ships List Please respond to GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L @rootsweb.com http://feefhs.org/FRL/spl/bremenmf.html Is this the Bremen Ships List you are referring to? Kathy ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail postmaster@equifax.com.

Yes - I agree with Prussia for Anton's notation. Since he came in 1883 and Johanna came so much later, I didn't know if perhaps her notation of Klattau was more recent. Also, I have one great-uncle still living, and he thinks he remembers them changing the Benes surname from Benesch or Benesh - so the German might not be too far-fetched. Do you know if the surname Pinker was very common in that region? They would be the ones I would like to track down the most. The only reason I'm interested in Benes/Benesch is that perhaps they came from the same area. But Benes/Benesch is not blood related to me. You mention Bremen shiplists. How would I find those? (that sounds like a fairly exciting lead...) I'd also like to add my thanks to you and Karen - between the two of you, I learn so much, and am totally fascinated! Becky "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.n et> To GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com 05/10/2006 06:28 cc PM Subject Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing Please respond to search for family... GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L @rootsweb.com Becky: What you have been typing as PreuBen is Preußen the ß is a German double ss or "sharp S", so.... they were from Prussia! Since Silesia was also a part of Austria Hungary but was lost to Prussia in the Austrian Prussian war, and since this area is bordering on what is now the Czech Republic, it could well be that they are from that part. (Of course the Czech Republic or Czechoslovakia did not exist as yet in March of 1892, so there would be no reference to it on that manifest, because that country did not yet exist.) So, when they left they were either from Prussia, Austria, Galicia or Poland. But it could very well be that they came from an area which later became part of the newly formed Czechoslovakia in 1919, and that was long after they had left there. The surname Benes, written as such or with an s at the end, would indicate that they were of Czech ethnicity, while when their name is spelled with sch at the end, like Benesch, they were most likely a German family. Since this name is as common in the Czech Republic (as Smith is here in America) you will have a hard time to find the correct location. Your clue is the recording "Preussen". So it is in the general area I listed before. Actually, you can only go by whatever lead documents or letters you can find, or by remembering a village name, or perhaps you could go back to the passenger list (not upon their arrival) but from where they sailed, because sometimes they listed the places of origin in the Bremen shipslists. The Bremen shiplists should have an alphabetical index. like the Ellis Island register. Look for Benes and Benesch and see if someone has Preussen (Prussia) and the same first names listged on it, and then, perhaps, you may be able to narrow it down. I certainly hope so. Good luck! Aida ------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Becky.Champion@equifax.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:31 AM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > > > > Hello, all! I am renewing a search for my genealogy block in the CR. My > G-G-Grandmother, Johanna Pinker, came over in March of 1892 (she was 29), > with her 6 year old son, Gordian (the passenger manifest has him listed as > Kordian). The manifest lists their origination as Klattau. She would never > speak of where she came from, nor who sired Gordian. Johanna's brother, > Anton (Tony) came over in June of 1883, with an place of origin listed as > PreuBen. The name below him on the manifest shows Catherine Benes, whom he > married. Catherine's brother, Josef, married Johanna after she came over > in > 1892. Josef adopted Gordian, who then became Gordian Benes. > > I'm trying to trace Johanna and/or Anton back to the CR, but have had no > success. Family stories have been passed down that Johanna was "deathly > afraid" of anyone in uniform. That may indicate to me that she was raped, > or something else traumatic happened to her. As she would not speak of her > homeland, I have no idea what trials she faced. > > Any help or direction would be much appreciated! > > Thanks, > > Becky > > > > This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be > confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please > refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this > information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have > received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail > postmaster@equifax.com. > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail postmaster@equifax.com.

so would you have any idea what the following names meant? Frierdich Michalek Steppig/Stoppich Schramm thanks! Pam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... Pinker is fairly common in Bohemia and Austria. It has several origins. There is Pinkernagel (ping-pang from a hammer) who was a smith making nails, this name shows up in 1491 in Erfurt, Thuringia. That is to the North of Bohemia. And then there is Pinkus which is a writer or clerk in Latin and that "Pink" syllable here is not associated with the sound of a hammer, but means the Latin word pinkus which is a writer, a clerk. This name is found in Olmütz, Bohemia, where in 1358 Petrus Pinkusser is the scribe of a document. --- And be inventive, google "Bremen Shiplists", "Surname search" etc. etc. Aida --------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <Becky.Champion@equifax.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > > > > Yes - I agree with Prussia for Anton's notation. Since he came in 1883 and > Johanna came so much later, I didn't know if perhaps her notation of > Klattau was more recent. Also, I have one great-uncle still living, and he > thinks he remembers them changing the Benes surname from Benesch or Benesh > - so the German might not be too far-fetched. Do you know if the surname > Pinker was very common in that region? They would be the ones I would like > to track down the most. The only reason I'm interested in Benes/Benesch is > that perhaps they came from the same area. But Benes/Benesch is not blood > related to me. > > You mention Bremen shiplists. How would I find those? (that sounds like a > fairly exciting lead...) > > I'd also like to add my thanks to you and Karen - between the two of you, > I > learn so much, and am totally fascinated! > > Becky > > > > > "Aida Kraus" > <akibb1@verizon.n > et> To > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com > 05/10/2006 06:28 cc > PM > Subject > Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing > Please respond to search for family... > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L > @rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > Becky: > What you have been typing as PreuBen is Preußen the ß is a German double > ss > > or "sharp S", so.... they were from Prussia! > Since Silesia was also a part of Austria Hungary but was lost to Prussia > in > the Austrian Prussian war, and since this area is bordering on what is now > the Czech Republic, it could well be that they are from that part. (Of > course the Czech Republic or Czechoslovakia did not exist as yet in March > of > 1892, so there would be no reference to it on that manifest, because that > country did not yet exist.) So, when they left they were either from > Prussia, Austria, Galicia or Poland. But it could very well be that they > came from an area which later became part of the newly formed > Czechoslovakia in 1919, and that was long after they had left there. > The surname Benes, written as such or with an s at the end, would > indicate that they were of Czech ethnicity, while when their name is > spelled > with sch at the end, like Benesch, they were most likely a German family. > Since this name is as common in the Czech Republic (as Smith is here in > America) you will have a hard time to find the correct location. Your clue > is the recording "Preussen". So it is in the general area I listed > before. > Actually, you can only go by whatever lead documents or letters you can > find, or by remembering a village name, or perhaps you could go back to > the > > passenger list (not upon their arrival) but from where they sailed, > because > > sometimes they listed the places of origin in the Bremen shipslists. The > Bremen shiplists should have an alphabetical index. like the Ellis Island > register. Look for Benes and Benesch and see if someone has Preussen > (Prussia) and the same first names listged on it, and then, perhaps, you > may > be able to narrow it down. I certainly hope so. Good luck! > Aida > ------------------------------ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Becky.Champion@equifax.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:31 AM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > >> >> >> >> >> Hello, all! I am renewing a search for my genealogy block in the CR. My >> G-G-Grandmother, Johanna Pinker, came over in March of 1892 (she was 29), >> with her 6 year old son, Gordian (the passenger manifest has him listed > as >> Kordian). The manifest lists their origination as Klattau. She would > never >> speak of where she came from, nor who sired Gordian. Johanna's brother, >> Anton (Tony) came over in June of 1883, with an place of origin listed as >> PreuBen. The name below him on the manifest shows Catherine Benes, whom > he >> married. Catherine's brother, Josef, married Johanna after she came over >> in >> 1892. Josef adopted Gordian, who then became Gordian Benes. >> >> I'm trying to trace Johanna and/or Anton back to the CR, but have had no >> success. Family stories have been passed down that Johanna was "deathly >> afraid" of anyone in uniform. That may indicate to me that she was raped, >> or something else traumatic happened to her. As she would not speak of > her >> homeland, I have no idea what trials she faced. >> >> Any help or direction would be much appreciated! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Becky >> >> >> >> This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be >> confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, > please >> refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this >> information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have >> received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail >> postmaster@equifax.com. >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >> list? To search the archives, go to: >> > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > > > > This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be > confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please > refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this > information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have > received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail > postmaster@equifax.com. > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To browse the archives, go to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/

again - thank you for this history lesson ... I'm learning SO MUCH!! blessings~ Pam in MO ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ Warrenton, MO http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD ----- Original Message ----- From: <KarenHob@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Searching for family before 1700 or where did they come... In a message dated 5/9/2006 10:58:11 PM Mountain Standard Time, akibb1@verizon.net writes: but not all villages had churches and they only appear when the churches were built and the recording started. All villages belonged to a parish community. Some people walked up to 8-10 km to get to church. Shoes were expensive and they would walk in their bare feet when weather permitted or in wooden shoes with thick woolen socks (if they had no boots) and put on shoes just before entering the church. The vital records for all the villages in a single parish community would be kept in the church. Some older villages that had churches lost their pastors and the church was designated a chaple and was used only on certain days special to the community like a certain saint's day (the patron of the village). If there were enough residents in a village with a church a chaplain might be assigned. He was like an assistant pastor and he would say masses on sundays and hear confessions but the other sacraments like baptism, confirmation, marriage had to be conducted at the main parish church except emergency baptisms. Some villages built churches in the hopes that they would get a chaplain. The churches that were not consecrated parish churches might be used as meeting places for prayerful events other than Holy Mass and the sacraments. One such event might be saying goodby to and praying for village men who had been drafted. Once a church was consecrated, its use for "lay" events would be restricted. Some village chapels were very small and would not hold many people. Those small chapels would not qualify to have a chaplain but the priest would still come from the parish center to say masses there on a special day. The village would gather outside around the chapel because there might only be room inside for some of the most "important" people. The next step up for a church was to be designated a filial; (affiliated) church. They would have a priest permanently assigned but they were still not considered a parish church. In theory they served only one place rather than a whole community of several places even if people from neighboring villages preferred to go there rather than all the way to the parish center.. Filial churches could perform all the sacraments that did not require a bishop but they did not keep the records -- everything they recorded was sent to and kept at the main parish church. Filial churches could become parish churches if there were enough residents supporting them. They would then begin to keep their own records. When an ancestral village is known the next step is to learn the name of the parish community to which it belonged if it was not itself a parish center. It is also important to know how long it was a parish center. If it received that designation relatively late then some records of ancestors born there may be with another nearby parish. J.G. Sommer's 16-volume collection" Das Königreich Böhmen" lists each village in Bohemia (not including Moravia) by name and tells were its residents went to church and the name of the church. Gregor Wolny "Das Markgrafschaft Mähren" does the same for Moravia. Each author wrote one volume for each district of either Bohemia or Moravia. An author search of the World Catalog should find the works of both authors - ask your research librarian to help you find the book(s) you want -- the one(s) for your ancestral districts. Sign up for lending privelges at a college or university library to get copies of these books at the least cost. Check if that library will let you take a book that is more than 100 years old out of the library reading room. (A teacher or other person associated with the same institution may be able to get the books for free, take them to his/her office and to use them for up to three months vs. 2 weeks for a student or other borrower.) An interesting complication regarding church records is how many churches changed from catholic to protestant -- back and forth more than once -- over the period when religion became a political power tool among many of the nobility. When a nobleman converted for whatever reason he would demand that everyone of his serfs would also convert and he would designate all churches in his dominon as the denomination he chose. Even though all of the churches began as Catholic parishes, many became protestant for a time during the Hussite wars and then, again, during the reformation. They returned to Roman Catholic inbetween those two episodes. After the Thirty Years War the areas of Bohemia that needed new population were settled by Catholics. The Kaiser demanded that all noblemen either convert or swear allegiance to a Catholic Kaiser (if they fought on his side during the war) and that all the population of Bohemia should be Catholic. The city of As (Asch) was allowed to remain protestant as were parts of Moravia (different politics there). So when you are looking for ancestral vital records you may find that the church of Stes. Peter and Paul in XXX village first has documents in Latin written by a priest and then in Czech or German written by a protestant pastor and then in Latin again until German became the official language for all records after 1740. There are some military church books dated later than 1740 - 1760 that are still in Latin and I have seen reports of a few records dated as late as the 1780s that were in Czech. Always remember that if your ancestors were of a different denomination than the denomination "of record" of their parish church, the records for that parish should still be searched. Local parish churches even recorded Jewish vital records when there was no other means for that -- no nearby synagogue or Rabbi who would take care of it. Searching the films at the LDS using the keyword "Jewish" will sometimes show a title for a Catholic church. This in not a mistake. Examine the film notes for that title and there will probably be a film or two with notes saying it includes some records for Jewish residents of the area. Likewise if a search for "Evangelical" or "brethren" or "ultraquist" hits on a title that is not that denominatioon it may simply mean that at one time that church was an Evangelical church or that a few protestant records are included in the church books because there was no protestant pastor to take care of that. Karen ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/

Oh my ... we have >2< Pams here looking for relatives in Bohemia/Germany/Austria/CZ :-).... I'll try to make sure my emails always have my sig line in them to avoid confusion - my SCHALLOM's are supposedly from Bohemia .... thought maybe it was a Jewish name, but cannot connect that - I know that shalom means peace and this name is so close to that - but haven't been able to connect any ancestors yet in that area of his birth (Merklin) with that name. But having fun looking! Pam in MO ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ Warrenton, MO http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD ----- Original Message ----- From: "PJ V" <netkitty@hotmail.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... On the ship's log it says "Bohemia" only. I am wondering if I can find where they were buried in Michigan if they would have an exact town name mentioned in the records. Either that or would the marriage record for their daughters in Michigan mention what town they came from? Thanks, Pam >From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> >Reply-To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com >To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 17:23:52 -0700 > >For Pam: >Wohlmann is a German name and could be from anywhere in Germany. My name >Lexicon refers to Wohlmann as: >Wohltmann, a name from Northern Germany, a derivation of Waldmann = man of >the Forest. And there is a Woldmann and Woltmann originating in the area >of Hamburg. There is no mention of any other place, but you may go to the >website and key in Woltmann, and check for a site where the frequency of >last names are given in relation to a map of the country. I don't have >this at my fingertips right now, because I am just programming my new >computer and all the old files are not yet transferred. But just hit the >URLS on Google and Yahoo websites, even German Yahoo websites with >questions like: "surnames and areas" etc. eventually you should get to >that map. Type in the last name and then it should show spots where these >names occur to this day, you can also go to the Hamburg telephone book >white pages and look at Woltmann. Go to the ships manifest at Bremen and >search 1878 departures of that name, perhaps they wrote down the area where >they came from. >Aida > > > >>Aida: >> >>I wonder if you could tell me what area my Bohemian surname of Wohlman >>would likely be from? They immigrated in 1878 from the port of Bremen. >>Their origin was said to be Bohemia in the beginning but later they stated >>either Germany or Austria around 1900. >> >>Thanks. >> >>Pam >>

http://feefhs.org/FRL/spl/bremenmf.html Is this the Bremen Ships List you are referring to? Kathy