WEBER Well, my Weber's are on my husband's side - and unfortunately, I haven't done a WHOLE lot of searching on 'that' side :-) ... need to get around to that as I seem to be the ONLY researcher on both sides!! anyway - the furtherst back I have is a Joseph WEBER Sr. born 1-05-1833 Coerbecke Kries, Germany d. 1-12-1892 in Teutopolis, IL - he m. Catherine PROBST b 7-19-1841 in Kries Ahans Prussia (I've been told that doesn't make sense - but haven't figured it out yet :->) and d. May 10, 1904 in Teutopolis, IL. I have children from that marriage and most ended up in St. Louis, MO or close counties in IL. any help? ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ Warrenton, MO http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willow Aliento" <evajune@bigpond.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:48 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] g'day Pam -- re your Weber & thanks all for Jewish info Hi Pam & everyone, call me slow (comes from being downunda?? lol) but just noticed Weber in your name list Pam, where & when? some of my Palatine German/Mohawks connect to Weber family in Stone Arabia NY pre-revolt. My Stevens/Dachstader-Docksteader line that were UEL. intersting if we connect there too best wishes & love to everyone willow (Bohemian German great-great-grandparents Franz Franz b Bohemia & Therese Drescher b Bohemia, emigrated with children to USA 1890s, possibly 'converso' Jewish way back too -- really enjoyed everyone's insights on that these last few days) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam" <pam@ewebexpress.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Searching for family before 1700 or where did they come... > again - thank you for this history lesson ... I'm learning SO MUCH!! > > blessings~ Pam in MO > > ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ > Warrenton, MO > http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com > http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com > Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, > CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, > SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, > DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, > THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <KarenHob@aol.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Searching for family before 1700 or where > did > they come... > > > In a message dated 5/9/2006 10:58:11 PM Mountain Standard Time, > akibb1@verizon.net writes: > but not all villages had churches and they only appear when the churches > were built and the recording started. > > All villages belonged to a parish community. Some people walked up to > 8-10 > km to get to church. Shoes were expensive and they would walk in their > bare > feet when weather permitted or in wooden shoes with thick woolen socks (if > they had no boots) and put on shoes just before entering the church. > > The vital records for all the villages in a single parish community would > be > kept in the church. > > Some older villages that had churches lost their pastors and the church > was > designated a chaple and was used only on certain days special to the > community > like a certain saint's day (the patron of the village). If there were > enough residents in a village with a church a chaplain might be assigned. > He was > like an assistant pastor and he would say masses on sundays and hear > confessions but the other sacraments like baptism, confirmation, marriage > had to be > conducted at the main parish church except emergency baptisms. Some > villages > built churches in the hopes that they would get a chaplain. The > churches > that were not consecrated parish churches might be used as meeting places > for > prayerful events other than Holy Mass and the sacraments. One such event > might > be saying goodby to and praying for village men who had been drafted. > > Once a church was consecrated, its use for "lay" events would be > restricted. > > Some village chapels were very small and would not hold many people. > Those > small chapels would not qualify to have a chaplain but the priest would > still > come from the parish center to say masses there on a special day. The > village would gather outside around the chapel because there might only be > room > inside for some of the most "important" people. > > The next step up for a church was to be designated a filial; (affiliated) > church. > They would have a priest permanently assigned but they were still not > considered a parish church. In theory they served only one place rather > than a whole > community of several places even if people from neighboring villages > preferred to go there rather than all the way to the parish center.. > Filial churches > could perform all the sacraments that did not require a bishop but they > did > not keep the records -- everything they recorded was sent to and kept at > the > main parish church. > > Filial churches could become parish churches if there were enough > residents > supporting them. They would then begin to keep their own records. > > When an ancestral village is known the next step is to learn the name of > the > parish community to which it belonged if it was not itself a parish > center. > It is also important to know how long it was a parish center. If it > received > that designation relatively late then some records of ancestors born there > may be with another nearby parish. > > J.G. Sommer's 16-volume collection" Das Königreich Böhmen" lists each > village in Bohemia (not including Moravia) by name and tells were its > residents went > to church and the name of the church. Gregor Wolny "Das Markgrafschaft > Mähren" does the same for Moravia. Each author wrote one volume for > each > district of either Bohemia or Moravia. An author search of the World > Catalog > should find the works of both authors - ask your research librarian to > help > you > find the book(s) you want -- the one(s) for your ancestral districts. > Sign up > for lending privelges at a college or university library to get copies of > these books at the least cost. > Check if that library will let you take a book that is more than 100 years > old out of the library reading room. (A teacher or other person > associated > with > the same institution may be able to get the books for free, take them to > his/her office and to use them for up to three months vs. 2 weeks for a > student or > other borrower.) > > An interesting complication regarding church records is how many churches > changed from catholic to protestant -- back and forth more than once -- > over the > period when religion became a political power tool among many of the > nobility. When a nobleman converted for whatever reason he would demand > that > everyone of his serfs would also convert and he would designate all > churches > in his > dominon as the denomination he chose. Even though all of the churches > began > as Catholic parishes, many became protestant for a time during the Hussite > wars and then, again, during the reformation. They returned to Roman > Catholic > inbetween those two episodes. After the Thirty Years War the areas of > Bohemia that needed new population were settled by Catholics. The Kaiser > demanded > that all noblemen either convert or swear allegiance to a Catholic Kaiser > (if > they fought on his side during the war) and that all the population of > Bohemia should be Catholic. The city of As (Asch) was allowed to remain > protestant > as were parts of Moravia (different politics there). > > So when you are looking for ancestral vital records you may find that the > church of Stes. Peter and Paul in XXX village first has documents in > Latin > written by a priest and then in Czech or German written by a protestant > pastor and > then in Latin again until German became the official language for all > records > after 1740. There are some military church books dated later than 1740 - > 1760 > that are still in Latin and I have seen reports of a few records dated as > late as the 1780s that were in Czech. > > Always remember that if your ancestors were of a different denomination > than > the denomination "of record" of their parish church, the records for that > parish should still be searched. > > Local parish churches even recorded Jewish vital records when there was no > other means for that -- no nearby synagogue or Rabbi who would take care > of > it. > > Searching the films at the LDS using the keyword "Jewish" will sometimes > show a title for a Catholic church. This in not a mistake. Examine the > film > notes for that title and there will probably be a film or two with notes > saying > it includes some records for Jewish residents of the area. > > Likewise if a search for "Evangelical" or "brethren" or "ultraquist" hits > on > a title that is not that denominatioon it may simply mean that at one time > that church was an Evangelical church or that a few protestant records are > included in the church books because there was no protestant pastor to > take > care of > that. > > Karen > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To browse the archives, go to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To browse the archives, go to: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/

All these names that my cousin Mary and I are looking for are located in Moravia - the towns are Belotin, Polom, Jesenik (whcih I have located) - andthen one that eludes me - Hladke Zivotice - is there a different name for that one? Also, another Michalek researcher has her ancestors in Saar in Mahren - I know that Mahren is also Moravia - but can't find anything on Saar ... any ideas? thanks! Pam ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ Warrenton, MO http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon Rabel and Hyncica are most likely Czech names. The German version would be Rabl from Rabe (raven) found in Bavaria. Fieber and Gold is not listed, you might find it in with a Jewish name search. Schuert or Schürt is not listed there either. Sorry, dear, but this did not pan out very well. Aida --------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <mpettyjohn@comcast.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:10 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > Awesome news about Schramm. Thank you Pam for sending this request. Now > we might have some leads on additional ancestors of Joseph. Aida, thank > you for looking for Pam. We are cousins. Some other names we are > researching thanks to a professional researcher we hired to research our > great grandfather Josef Michalek ancestors are > Rabel > Hyncica > Fieber > Gold > Schuert > > Aida, would you be so kind to look in your Lexicon to see if any of the > above names ore in it. > > Thank you and Blessing, > > Mary Pettyjohn > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Helen" <hwhitemc@msn.com> > >> Hello Aida, >> Could Schram, Schramm be the same as SCHRAMEK? >> >> Could that magic book of yours find; >> >> LOY in Steiermark; >> PEKAR in Bohmerwald >> SCHRAMEK anywhere, possibly in Moravia? >> All German, Catholic, and for sure in mid 1700's before emmigrating to >> Bukovina >> 1800. >> >> This web site is the best. Thanks to you and Karen. I read every entry >> and >> save many many as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. >> >> You two are THE BEST!!!!! >> Helen White >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> >> > Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing listed >> > under >> > Frierdich! >> > Michalek is a Czech name. >> > Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the >> > Lexicon. >> > Stoppich, ditto as above >> > Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded for >> > one >> > Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel >> > 1396 at >> > Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is >> > recorded >> > as Schremmel in 1353. >> > Aida >> > ------------------------------------------------------------- >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Pam" >> > To: >> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >> > >> > >> > > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? >> > > >> > > Frierdich >> > > >> > > Michalek >> > > >> > > Steppig/Stoppich >> > > >> > > Schramm >> > > >> > > thanks! >> > > Pam > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To search the archives, go to: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN

Yes, Aida I knew as much - I once took 'bible' lessons from an Orthodox Rabbi who was a holocaust survivor from CZ (NOW that is very interesting! hehe considering all the info I am finding) and filled us in on lots of history/culture/times and he always said that MICHALEK was a polish Jewish name ... I knew from my own research that the Catholic church since its conception in the 3rd century under Constantine forcibly (thru economic or religious) would have many subjugated countries convert to RCC or suffer the consequences. So it does not surprise me at all that my ancestors may have been Jewish and then had to convert due to circumstances. My journey is to find out the 'truth' ... not only from my own roots .. but from everything in life :-) .. thank you for being a part of that journey! Our other ancestors of FIEBER, RABEL SCHRAMM and GOLD and SCHUBERT (not sure how Friedrich fits into this equasion) I know are very Jewish sounding - guess it will take a trip to CZ to actually find out! Blessings ~ Pam ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ Warrenton, MO http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon Mary, Jewish people often converted to Catholicism in Bohemia. Mine were Jewish at Prague in 1651 and Catholic in Schuettenhofen Bohemia and Vienna in 1700. So were actually Senator Kerry's ancestors, who are from Silesia, Moravia and Austria. There was a good reason for it, the Habsburg Empire did not do business with Jews very much, so anyone operating a business had better success as a Catholic church-goer and the conversion of Hebrew names to German phonetics was quite common. Schubert: is actually a short version of Schuhmacher (shoemaker). Also Schuwert. This name is found in Saxony, Silesia and Austria. The most famous of course is composer Fanz Schubert! The name was recorded in 1361 as Vierczigmark Schuworcht, and in 1417 there is a Heynmann Schuwort without a location, Matis Schuwert 1451 in the Silesian Glatz and in Dux, Bohemia the name is recorded in 1390 as Waczlab Schubort. It is also spelled Schubart. Aida ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <mpettyjohn@comcast.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > Aida, thank you. I misspelled Schubert. Would you mind seeing if > Schubert is listed. Now that is interesting about Fieber and Gold. Pam > has often wondered if we had Jewish ancestors even though Josef's family > were Catholic. > > Mary > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> > >> Rabel and Hyncica are most likely Czech names. The German version would >> be >> Rabl from Rabe (raven) found in Bavaria. >> Fieber and Gold is not listed, you might find it in with a Jewish name >> search. >> Schuert or Schürt is not listed there either. Sorry, dear, but this did >> not >> pan out very well. >> Aida >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:10 PM >> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon >> >> >> > Awesome news about Schramm. Thank you Pam for sending this request. Now >> > we might have some leads on additional ancestors of Joseph. Aida, thank >> > you for looking for Pam. We are cousins. Some other names we are >> > researching thanks to a professional researcher we hired to research >> > our >> > great grandfather Josef Michalek ancestors are >> > Rabel >> > Hyncica >> > Fieber >> > Gold >> > Schuert >> > >> > Aida, would you be so kind to look in your Lexicon to see if any of the >> > above names ore in it. >> > >> > Thank you and Blessing, >> > >> > Mary Pettyjohn >> > >> > -------------- Original message -------------- >> > From: "Helen" >> > >> >> Hello Aida, >> >> Could Schram, Schramm be the same as SCHRAMEK? >> >> >> >> Could that magic book of yours find; >> >> >> >> LOY in Steiermark; >> >> PEKAR in Bohmerwald >> >> SCHRAMEK anywhere, possibly in Moravia? >> >> All German, Catholic, and for sure in mid 1700's before emmigrating to >> >> Bukovina >> >> 1800. >> >> >> >> This web site is the best. Thanks to you and Karen. I read every entry >> >> and >> >> save many many as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. >> >> >> >> You two are THE BEST!!!!! >> >> Helen White >> >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> > Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing >> >> > listed >> >> > under >> >> > Frierdich! >> >> > Michalek is a Czech name. >> >> > Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the >> >> > Lexicon. >> >> > Stoppich, ditto as above >> >> > Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded >> >> > for >> >> > one >> >> > Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel >> >> > 1396 at >> >> > Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is >> >> > recorded >> >> > as Schremmel in 1353. >> >> > Aida >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Pam" >> >> > To: >> >> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM >> >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? >> >> > > >> >> > > Frierdich >> >> > > >> >> > > Michalek >> >> > > >> >> > > Steppig/Stoppich >> >> > > >> >> > > Schramm >> >> > > >> >> > > thanks! >> >> > > Pam >> > >> > >> > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? >> > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >> > >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >> list? To >> search the archives, go to: >> http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html

Ahans may be a misspelling of Ahaus - try this! Aida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam" <pam@ewebexpress.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] g'day Pam -- re your Weber & thanks all for Jewish info > WEBER > > Well, my Weber's are on my husband's side - and unfortunately, I haven't > done a WHOLE lot of searching on 'that' side :-) ... need to get around to > that as I seem to be the ONLY researcher on both sides!! > > anyway - the furtherst back I have is a Joseph WEBER Sr. born 1-05-1833 > Coerbecke Kries, Germany d. 1-12-1892 in Teutopolis, IL - he m. Catherine > PROBST b 7-19-1841 in Kries Ahans Prussia (I've been told that doesn't > make > sense - but haven't figured it out yet :->) and d. May 10, 1904 in > Teutopolis, IL. > > I have children from that marriage and most ended up in St. Louis, MO or > close counties in IL. > > any help? > > ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ > Warrenton, MO > http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com > http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com > Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, > CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, > SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, > DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, > THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Willow Aliento" <evajune@bigpond.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:48 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] g'day Pam -- re your Weber & thanks all for > Jewish info > > > Hi Pam & everyone, > call me slow (comes from being downunda?? lol) but just noticed Weber in > your name list Pam, where & when? some of my Palatine German/Mohawks > connect to Weber family in Stone Arabia NY pre-revolt. My > Stevens/Dachstader-Docksteader line that were UEL. > intersting if we connect there too > best wishes & love to everyone > willow > (Bohemian German great-great-grandparents Franz Franz b Bohemia & Therese > Drescher b Bohemia, emigrated with children to USA 1890s, possibly > 'converso' Jewish way back too -- really enjoyed everyone's insights on > that these last few days) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pam" <pam@ewebexpress.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:56 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Searching for family before 1700 or where > did > they come... > > >> again - thank you for this history lesson ... I'm learning SO MUCH!! >> >> blessings~ Pam in MO >> >> ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ >> Warrenton, MO >> http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com >> http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com >> Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, >> CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, >> SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, >> DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, >> THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <KarenHob@aol.com> >> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Searching for family before 1700 or where >> did >> they come... >> >> >> In a message dated 5/9/2006 10:58:11 PM Mountain Standard Time, >> akibb1@verizon.net writes: >> but not all villages had churches and they only appear when the churches >> were built and the recording started. >> >> All villages belonged to a parish community. Some people walked up to >> 8-10 >> km to get to church. Shoes were expensive and they would walk in their >> bare >> feet when weather permitted or in wooden shoes with thick woolen socks >> (if >> they had no boots) and put on shoes just before entering the church. >> >> The vital records for all the villages in a single parish community would >> be >> kept in the church. >> >> Some older villages that had churches lost their pastors and the church >> was >> designated a chaple and was used only on certain days special to the >> community >> like a certain saint's day (the patron of the village). If there were >> enough residents in a village with a church a chaplain might be assigned. >> He was >> like an assistant pastor and he would say masses on sundays and hear >> confessions but the other sacraments like baptism, confirmation, marriage >> had to be >> conducted at the main parish church except emergency baptisms. Some >> villages >> built churches in the hopes that they would get a chaplain. The >> churches >> that were not consecrated parish churches might be used as meeting places >> for >> prayerful events other than Holy Mass and the sacraments. One such event >> might >> be saying goodby to and praying for village men who had been drafted. >> >> Once a church was consecrated, its use for "lay" events would be >> restricted. >> >> Some village chapels were very small and would not hold many people. >> Those >> small chapels would not qualify to have a chaplain but the priest would >> still >> come from the parish center to say masses there on a special day. The >> village would gather outside around the chapel because there might only >> be >> room >> inside for some of the most "important" people. >> >> The next step up for a church was to be designated a filial; (affiliated) >> church. >> They would have a priest permanently assigned but they were still not >> considered a parish church. In theory they served only one place rather >> than a whole >> community of several places even if people from neighboring villages >> preferred to go there rather than all the way to the parish center.. >> Filial churches >> could perform all the sacraments that did not require a bishop but they >> did >> not keep the records -- everything they recorded was sent to and kept at >> the >> main parish church. >> >> Filial churches could become parish churches if there were enough >> residents >> supporting them. They would then begin to keep their own records. >> >> When an ancestral village is known the next step is to learn the name of >> the >> parish community to which it belonged if it was not itself a parish >> center. >> It is also important to know how long it was a parish center. If it >> received >> that designation relatively late then some records of ancestors born >> there >> may be with another nearby parish. >> >> J.G. Sommer's 16-volume collection" Das Königreich Böhmen" lists each >> village in Bohemia (not including Moravia) by name and tells were its >> residents went >> to church and the name of the church. Gregor Wolny "Das Markgrafschaft >> Mähren" does the same for Moravia. Each author wrote one volume for >> each >> district of either Bohemia or Moravia. An author search of the World >> Catalog >> should find the works of both authors - ask your research librarian to >> help >> you >> find the book(s) you want -- the one(s) for your ancestral districts. >> Sign up >> for lending privelges at a college or university library to get copies of >> these books at the least cost. >> Check if that library will let you take a book that is more than 100 >> years >> old out of the library reading room. (A teacher or other person >> associated >> with >> the same institution may be able to get the books for free, take them to >> his/her office and to use them for up to three months vs. 2 weeks for a >> student or >> other borrower.) >> >> An interesting complication regarding church records is how many churches >> changed from catholic to protestant -- back and forth more than once -- >> over the >> period when religion became a political power tool among many of the >> nobility. When a nobleman converted for whatever reason he would >> demand >> that >> everyone of his serfs would also convert and he would designate all >> churches >> in his >> dominon as the denomination he chose. Even though all of the churches >> began >> as Catholic parishes, many became protestant for a time during the >> Hussite >> wars and then, again, during the reformation. They returned to Roman >> Catholic >> inbetween those two episodes. After the Thirty Years War the areas of >> Bohemia that needed new population were settled by Catholics. The >> Kaiser >> demanded >> that all noblemen either convert or swear allegiance to a Catholic Kaiser >> (if >> they fought on his side during the war) and that all the population of >> Bohemia should be Catholic. The city of As (Asch) was allowed to remain >> protestant >> as were parts of Moravia (different politics there). >> >> So when you are looking for ancestral vital records you may find that the >> church of Stes. Peter and Paul in XXX village first has documents in >> Latin >> written by a priest and then in Czech or German written by a protestant >> pastor and >> then in Latin again until German became the official language for all >> records >> after 1740. There are some military church books dated later than 1740 - >> 1760 >> that are still in Latin and I have seen reports of a few records dated as >> late as the 1780s that were in Czech. >> >> Always remember that if your ancestors were of a different denomination >> than >> the denomination "of record" of their parish church, the records for that >> parish should still be searched. >> >> Local parish churches even recorded Jewish vital records when there was >> no >> other means for that -- no nearby synagogue or Rabbi who would take care >> of >> it. >> >> Searching the films at the LDS using the keyword "Jewish" will sometimes >> show a title for a Catholic church. This in not a mistake. Examine >> the >> film >> notes for that title and there will probably be a film or two with notes >> saying >> it includes some records for Jewish residents of the area. >> >> Likewise if a search for "Evangelical" or "brethren" or "ultraquist" hits >> on >> a title that is not that denominatioon it may simply mean that at one >> time >> that church was an Evangelical church or that a few protestant records >> are >> included in the church books because there was no protestant pastor to >> take >> care of >> that. >> >> Karen >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >> list? To browse the archives, go to: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ >> >> > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? > To browse the archives, go to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >

Saarland: This one did not transfer, it is the regional map in relationship to Germany's Rhineland and France and Luxembourg. http://www.maplandia.com/germany/saarland/ Aida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam" <pam@ewebexpress.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > All these names that my cousin Mary and I are looking for are located in > Moravia - the towns are Belotin, Polom, Jesenik (whcih I have located) - > andthen one that eludes me - Hladke Zivotice - is there a different name > for > that one? Also, another Michalek researcher has her ancestors in Saar in > Mahren - I know that Mahren is also Moravia - but can't find anything on > Saar ... any ideas? > > thanks! > Pam > > > ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ > Warrenton, MO > http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com > http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com > Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, > CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, > SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, > DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, > THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:28 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > > > Rabel and Hyncica are most likely Czech names. The German version would > be > Rabl from Rabe (raven) found in Bavaria. > Fieber and Gold is not listed, you might find it in with a Jewish name > search. > Schuert or Schürt is not listed there either. Sorry, dear, but this did > not > pan out very well. > Aida > > --------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <mpettyjohn@comcast.net> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:10 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > > >> Awesome news about Schramm. Thank you Pam for sending this request. Now >> we might have some leads on additional ancestors of Joseph. Aida, thank >> you for looking for Pam. We are cousins. Some other names we are >> researching thanks to a professional researcher we hired to research our >> great grandfather Josef Michalek ancestors are >> Rabel >> Hyncica >> Fieber >> Gold >> Schuert >> >> Aida, would you be so kind to look in your Lexicon to see if any of the >> above names ore in it. >> >> Thank you and Blessing, >> >> Mary Pettyjohn >> >> -------------- Original message -------------- >> From: "Helen" <hwhitemc@msn.com> >> >>> Hello Aida, >>> Could Schram, Schramm be the same as SCHRAMEK? >>> >>> Could that magic book of yours find; >>> >>> LOY in Steiermark; >>> PEKAR in Bohmerwald >>> SCHRAMEK anywhere, possibly in Moravia? >>> All German, Catholic, and for sure in mid 1700's before emmigrating to >>> Bukovina >>> 1800. >>> >>> This web site is the best. Thanks to you and Karen. I read every entry >>> and >>> save many many as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. >>> >>> You two are THE BEST!!!!! >>> Helen White >>> ----------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> > Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing listed >>> > under >>> > Frierdich! >>> > Michalek is a Czech name. >>> > Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the >>> > Lexicon. >>> > Stoppich, ditto as above >>> > Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded for >>> > one >>> > Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel >>> > 1396 at >>> > Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is >>> > recorded >>> > as Schremmel in 1353. >>> > Aida >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Pam" >>> > To: >>> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >>> > >>> > >>> > > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? >>> > > >>> > > Frierdich >>> > > >>> > > Michalek >>> > > >>> > > Steppig/Stoppich >>> > > >>> > > Schramm >>> > > >>> > > thanks! >>> > > Pam >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? >> Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? > To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To browse the archives, go to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ >

The Saarland is now a State of Germany. It in the West across the Rhine towards France and South of Luxembourg. Try this link for location as a regional map go to this (both links are in English) http://www.tiscover.de/de/guide/5de,en,SCH1/objectId,RGN32de/home.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam" <pam@ewebexpress.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > All these names that my cousin Mary and I are looking for are located in > Moravia - the towns are Belotin, Polom, Jesenik (whcih I have located) - > andthen one that eludes me - Hladke Zivotice - is there a different name > for > that one? Also, another Michalek researcher has her ancestors in Saar in > Mahren - I know that Mahren is also Moravia - but can't find anything on > Saar ... any ideas? > > thanks! > Pam > > > ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ > Warrenton, MO > http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com > http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com > Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, > CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, > SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, > DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, > THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:28 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > > > Rabel and Hyncica are most likely Czech names. The German version would > be > Rabl from Rabe (raven) found in Bavaria. > Fieber and Gold is not listed, you might find it in with a Jewish name > search. > Schuert or Schürt is not listed there either. Sorry, dear, but this did > not > pan out very well. > Aida > > --------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <mpettyjohn@comcast.net> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:10 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > > >> Awesome news about Schramm. Thank you Pam for sending this request. Now >> we might have some leads on additional ancestors of Joseph. Aida, thank >> you for looking for Pam. We are cousins. Some other names we are >> researching thanks to a professional researcher we hired to research our >> great grandfather Josef Michalek ancestors are >> Rabel >> Hyncica >> Fieber >> Gold >> Schuert >> >> Aida, would you be so kind to look in your Lexicon to see if any of the >> above names ore in it. >> >> Thank you and Blessing, >> >> Mary Pettyjohn >> >> -------------- Original message -------------- >> From: "Helen" <hwhitemc@msn.com> >> >>> Hello Aida, >>> Could Schram, Schramm be the same as SCHRAMEK? >>> >>> Could that magic book of yours find; >>> >>> LOY in Steiermark; >>> PEKAR in Bohmerwald >>> SCHRAMEK anywhere, possibly in Moravia? >>> All German, Catholic, and for sure in mid 1700's before emmigrating to >>> Bukovina >>> 1800. >>> >>> This web site is the best. Thanks to you and Karen. I read every entry >>> and >>> save many many as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. >>> >>> You two are THE BEST!!!!! >>> Helen White >>> ----------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> > Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing listed >>> > under >>> > Frierdich! >>> > Michalek is a Czech name. >>> > Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the >>> > Lexicon. >>> > Stoppich, ditto as above >>> > Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded for >>> > one >>> > Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel >>> > 1396 at >>> > Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is >>> > recorded >>> > as Schremmel in 1353. >>> > Aida >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Pam" >>> > To: >>> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >>> > >>> > >>> > > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? >>> > > >>> > > Frierdich >>> > > >>> > > Michalek >>> > > >>> > > Steppig/Stoppich >>> > > >>> > > Schramm >>> > > >>> > > thanks! >>> > > Pam >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? >> Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? > To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To browse the archives, go to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ >

Aida, that is interesting news. My major professor in graduate school who happen to be Jewish often asked me if I am sure I wasn't Jewish. Now I will have to email her and tell her that I might have Jewish ancestors and give her the information you sent me. Pam will be excited when she reads this. I know of the famous musician Schubert and actually did a report on him while in my music appreciation class in college. I would find it very exciting if I was related to him. Aida, you have been a God send to me and many other people trying to find information on their ancestors. You have a loving, kind and giving soul and it is my priviledge to have been in communication with you. Mary -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> > Mary, Jewish people often converted to Catholicism in Bohemia. Mine were > Jewish at Prague in 1651 and Catholic in Schuettenhofen Bohemia and Vienna > in 1700. So were actually Senator Kerry's ancestors, who are from Silesia, > Moravia and Austria. There was a good reason for it, the Habsburg Empire > did not do business with Jews very much, so anyone operating a business had > better success as a Catholic church-goer and the conversion of Hebrew names > to German phonetics was quite common. > Schubert: is actually a short version of Schuhmacher (shoemaker). Also > Schuwert. This name is found in Saxony, Silesia and Austria. The most > famous of course is composer Fanz Schubert! The name was recorded in 1361 as > Vierczigmark Schuworcht, and in 1417 there is a Heynmann Schuwort without a > location, Matis Schuwert 1451 in the Silesian Glatz and in Dux, Bohemia the > name is recorded in 1390 as Waczlab Schubort. It is also spelled Schubart. > Aida > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > > > > Aida, thank you. I misspelled Schubert. Would you mind seeing if > > Schubert is listed. Now that is interesting about Fieber and Gold. Pam > > has often wondered if we had Jewish ancestors even though Josef's family > > were Catholic. > > > > Mary > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > From: "Aida Kraus" > > > >> Rabel and Hyncica are most likely Czech names. The German version would > >> be > >> Rabl from Rabe (raven) found in Bavaria. > >> Fieber and Gold is not listed, you might find it in with a Jewish name > >> search. > >> Schuert or Schürt is not listed there either. Sorry, dear, but this did > >> not > >> pan out very well. > >> Aida > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: > >> To: > >> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:10 PM > >> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > >> > >> > >> > Awesome news about Schramm. Thank you Pam for sending this request. Now > >> > we might have some leads on additional ancestors of Joseph. Aida, thank > >> > you for looking for Pam. We are cousins. Some other names we are > >> > researching thanks to a professional researcher we hired to research > >> > our > >> > great grandfather Josef Michalek ancestors are > >> > Rabel > >> > Hyncica > >> > Fieber > >> > Gold > >> > Schuert > >> > > >> > Aida, would you be so kind to look in your Lexicon to see if any of the > >> > above names ore in it. > >> > > >> > Thank you and Blessing, > >> > > >> > Mary Pettyjohn > >> > > >> > -------------- Original message -------------- > >> > From: "Helen" > >> > > >> >> Hello Aida, > >> >> Could Schram, Schramm be the same as SCHRAMEK? > >> >> > >> >> Could that magic book of yours find; > >> >> > >> >> LOY in Steiermark; > >> >> PEKAR in Bohmerwald > >> >> SCHRAMEK anywhere, possibly in Moravia? > >> >> All German, Catholic, and for sure in mid 1700's before emmigrating to > >> >> Bukovina > >> >> 1800. > >> >> > >> >> This web site is the best. Thanks to you and Karen. I read every entry > >> >> and > >> >> save many many as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. > >> >> > >> >> You two are THE BEST!!!!! > >> >> Helen White > >> >> ----------------------------------------------------- > >> >> > >> >> > Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing > >> >> > listed > >> >> > under > >> >> > Frierdich! > >> >> > Michalek is a Czech name. > >> >> > Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the > >> >> > Lexicon. > >> >> > Stoppich, ditto as above > >> >> > Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded > >> >> > for > >> >> > one > >> >> > Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel > >> >> > 1396 at > >> >> > Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is > >> >> > recorded > >> >> > as Schremmel in 1353. > >> >> > Aida > >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> > From: "Pam" > >> >> > To: > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM > >> >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? > >> >> > > > >> >> > > Frierdich > >> >> > > > >> >> > > Michalek > >> >> > > > >> >> > > Steppig/Stoppich > >> >> > > > >> >> > > Schramm > >> >> > > > >> >> > > thanks! > >> >> > > Pam > >> > > >> > > >> > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > >> > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > >> > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html > >> > > >> > >> > >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > >> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > >> list? To > >> search the archives, go to: > >> http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > >> > > > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > > list? To search the archives, go to: > > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >

Aida, thank you. I misspelled Schubert. Would you mind seeing if Schubert is listed. Now that is interesting about Fieber and Gold. Pam has often wondered if we had Jewish ancestors even though Josef's family were Catholic. Mary -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> > Rabel and Hyncica are most likely Czech names. The German version would be > Rabl from Rabe (raven) found in Bavaria. > Fieber and Gold is not listed, you might find it in with a Jewish name > search. > Schuert or Schürt is not listed there either. Sorry, dear, but this did not > pan out very well. > Aida > > --------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:10 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > > > > Awesome news about Schramm. Thank you Pam for sending this request. Now > > we might have some leads on additional ancestors of Joseph. Aida, thank > > you for looking for Pam. We are cousins. Some other names we are > > researching thanks to a professional researcher we hired to research our > > great grandfather Josef Michalek ancestors are > > Rabel > > Hyncica > > Fieber > > Gold > > Schuert > > > > Aida, would you be so kind to look in your Lexicon to see if any of the > > above names ore in it. > > > > Thank you and Blessing, > > > > Mary Pettyjohn > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > From: "Helen" > > > >> Hello Aida, > >> Could Schram, Schramm be the same as SCHRAMEK? > >> > >> Could that magic book of yours find; > >> > >> LOY in Steiermark; > >> PEKAR in Bohmerwald > >> SCHRAMEK anywhere, possibly in Moravia? > >> All German, Catholic, and for sure in mid 1700's before emmigrating to > >> Bukovina > >> 1800. > >> > >> This web site is the best. Thanks to you and Karen. I read every entry > >> and > >> save many many as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. > >> > >> You two are THE BEST!!!!! > >> Helen White > >> ----------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing listed > >> > under > >> > Frierdich! > >> > Michalek is a Czech name. > >> > Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the > >> > Lexicon. > >> > Stoppich, ditto as above > >> > Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded for > >> > one > >> > Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel > >> > 1396 at > >> > Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is > >> > recorded > >> > as Schremmel in 1353. > >> > Aida > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Pam" > >> > To: > >> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM > >> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > >> > > >> > > >> > > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? > >> > > > >> > > Frierdich > >> > > > >> > > Michalek > >> > > > >> > > Steppig/Stoppich > >> > > > >> > > Schramm > >> > > > >> > > thanks! > >> > > Pam > > > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html > > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To > search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN >

Awesome news about Schramm. Thank you Pam for sending this request. Now we might have some leads on additional ancestors of Joseph. Aida, thank you for looking for Pam. We are cousins. Some other names we are researching thanks to a professional researcher we hired to research our great grandfather Josef Michalek ancestors are Rabel Hyncica Fieber Gold Schuert Aida, would you be so kind to look in your Lexicon to see if any of the above names ore in it. Thank you and Blessing, Mary Pettyjohn -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Helen" <hwhitemc@msn.com> > Hello Aida, > Could Schram, Schramm be the same as SCHRAMEK? > > Could that magic book of yours find; > > LOY in Steiermark; > PEKAR in Bohmerwald > SCHRAMEK anywhere, possibly in Moravia? > All German, Catholic, and for sure in mid 1700's before emmigrating to Bukovina > 1800. > > This web site is the best. Thanks to you and Karen. I read every entry and > save many many as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. > > You two are THE BEST!!!!! > Helen White > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing listed under > > Frierdich! > > Michalek is a Czech name. > > Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the Lexicon. > > Stoppich, ditto as above > > Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded for one > > Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel 1396 at > > Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is recorded > > as Schremmel in 1353. > > Aida > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pam" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM > > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > > > > > > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? > > > > > > Frierdich > > > > > > Michalek > > > > > > Steppig/Stoppich > > > > > > Schramm > > > > > > thanks! > > > Pam

Aida: Thanks for all the info, you were right they did not go to far to marry. bye the way my Zickler's appear in Haid now Bor about 1729 and stayed there, any connection. bye the way how old is the Zickler name and does it have a meaning Thank you Jean in fl

Thank you Karen and Aida for your responses. I have a question that definitely shows my lack of knowledge. When looking at entries in Family Search, should I look at Austria and Germany and more or less ignore the others such as Romania? Karen-I am looking for someone who immigrated to Sweden around 1800... Thanks! linda

I am wondering if any one has heard of this name and what it's origin would be. Vinzenz Dobishek and his wife Anna along with their daughter came from Austria Bohemia around 1870 to Watertown Wisconsin. He died 24 Oct 1905 I have also seen the name spelled Doby. They continue to be a mystery to us. Thank you,Carol

In a message dated 5/11/2006 4:59:55 PM Mountain Standard Time, Scrig@aol.com writes: Can anyone give me suggestions or ideas or the names of people who might be of assistance? Linda, Go to Familysearch.org On the home page type the name Ehrl in the surname search box and click on Search button. There are a lot of hits that give places in Bohemia and Moravia as birthplaces. There are some interesting ones for Althutten Bukowina. Most placenams that were "hutten" refered to a glassworks industry there. I wonder if you might find some early Ehrl ancestors who migrated from a glassworks town in Bohemia to Bukowina during the 18th and erly 19th C.?? The film that names the families who migrated and the places they left is named: Ansiderakten If you find the name there with indication the family went to Althutten in Bukowina check where they came from. You may have a common ancestor. Karen

In a message dated 5/11/2006 6:17:17 PM Mountain Standard Time, Scrig@aol.com writes: Aida, I have no lead document-just the information that he was born in Bohmen to Adam and Barbro Ehrl. This information came from Swedish documents found in Uppsala, Sweden so I assume they are church records. Linda Linda, I have not followed this thread very closely. If your ancestor was associated with glass blowing in Bohemia, there were a number of Bohemian glass workers who went to Sweden from the Gablonz area in 1938-39. It is possible they chose to go to Sweden (to escape occupation by the Third Reich) because others from their area had already settled there in the past. One area of glass making that Aida did not mention was in the borderlands with Bavaria. There were still many glasswerks in that area when I lived in Germany in the 1970s. I have read about some of these border gassworks. Some made mirrors and sheet glass and others made stemware and ornamental glassware. The Bohemian patterns and more information about Bohemian glassworks is probably all over the Internet if you search. Many people dislocated from Gablonz area in 1945 ended up in Neu Gabonz in Bavaria where they now produce a lot of the same glass bead products for which Gablonz was famous in the past. You may find someone named Ehrl living in or near Neugablonz if you search the German white pages. It is not a rare surname. Karen

In a message dated 5/11/2006 8:32:35 PM Mountain Standard Time, mpettyjohn@comcast.net writes: I know of the famous musician Schubert and actually did a report on him while in my music appreciation class in college. I would find it very exciting if I was related to him "Schubert was born in the Himmelpfortgrund, a small suburb of Vienna. His father, Franz, son of a Moravian peasant, was a parish schoolmaster; his mother, Elizabeth Vietz, had before her marriage been a cook in a Viennese family. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Schubert Karen

In a message dated 5/11/2006 7:37:25 PM Mountain Standard Time, mpettyjohn@comcast.net writes: Aida, thank you. I misspelled Schubert. Would you mind seeing if Schubert is listed. Now that is interesting about Fieber and Gold. Pam has often wondered if we had Jewish ancestors even though Josef's family were Catholic. Mary Mary, There were a few reasons that Jews would convert. One might be because they had an opportunity to tattend a military academy and become an officer but the army would not take Jews. So they converted in order to serve in the army. That would give them a pension, connections and a chance to travel that they would not have in their local communitiy. There are probably several other pragmatic reasons for conversion for personal or familial opportunity. Others may have married a Catholic and converted for the sake of the children or simply stopped practicing Judaism and let their children be brought up Catholic. There were synagogues only in the larger towns and cities (if any at all) and many Jews lived in rural villages as members of a very small Jewish group - maybe only one or two families. Some few may have joined a local church because they wanted their children to be less isolated or because they felt a personal need to participate in religious rites of any kind. Karen

There are several choices on that list and I would take the widest scope possible, like Central Europe. Do not select Austria, Germany, Poland, Romania, etc. because the borders shifted after the Austrian Hungarian Empire was carved up among 9 countries in 1918 - at the Treaty of Versailles - and not many people have a very good political geographical reference of Europe. Enter only the surname and a general area, like Central Europe. That will give you the most hits. Aida ----------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <Scrig@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:13 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Lack of Knowledge Question... > Thank you Karen and Aida for your responses. I have a question that > definitely shows my lack of knowledge. When looking at entries in Family > Search, > should I look at Austria and Germany and more or less ignore the others > such as > Romania? > > Karen-I am looking for someone who immigrated to Sweden around 1800... > > Thanks! > linda > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >

Thanks, Aida! Linda

Aida, I have no lead document-just the information that he was born in Bohmen to Adam and Barbro Ehrl. This information came from Swedish documents found in Uppsala, Sweden so I assume they are church records. Linda

Thanks Karen, it is good to have two heads thinking.....next to my Dad's factory was the famous Moser glass factory and that is in Western Bohemia on the foot of the Erzgebirge and there are, of course, a whole conglomeration of glass and porcelaine factories along the border. Back home, the hand-cut lead glass is famous world wide and there is even a "Karlsbader Schliff" which is the name of a pattern. But I think Linda's ancestors came to Sweden in the late 1800? But yes, Linda, try the website of Neugablonz and look in their phone book for some Ehrls because then you would have a connection to the Gablonz in Bohemia! VERY good idea, Karen! Aida --------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <KarenHob@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Ehrl (Erl, Earl, Eherl) Surname > In a message dated 5/11/2006 6:17:17 PM Mountain Standard Time, > Scrig@aol.com > writes: > Aida, > I have no lead document-just the information that he was born in Bohmen > to Adam and Barbro Ehrl. This information came from Swedish documents > found > in Uppsala, Sweden so I assume they are church records. > Linda > > > Linda, > > I have not followed this thread very closely. If your ancestor was > associated with glass blowing in Bohemia, there were a number of Bohemian > glass > workers who went to Sweden from the Gablonz area in 1938-39. It is > possible they > chose to go to Sweden (to escape occupation by the Third Reich) because > others > from their area had already settled there in the past. > > One area of glass making that Aida did not mention was in the borderlands > with Bavaria. There were still many glasswerks in that area when I > lived in > Germany in the 1970s. > > I have read about some of these border gassworks. Some made mirrors and > sheet glass and others made stemware and ornamental glassware. The > Bohemian > patterns and more information about Bohemian glassworks is probably all > over the > Internet if you search. > > Many people dislocated from Gablonz area in 1945 ended up in Neu Gabonz > in > Bavaria where they now produce a lot of the same glass bead products for > which > Gablonz was famous in the past. > > You may find someone named Ehrl living in or near Neugablonz if you > search > the German white pages. It is not a rare surname. > > Karen > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >