A good list of German words for various trades and professions: http://worldroots.com/brigitte/occupat.htm Austrian spellings may vary a little. Those interested in Germany Germans might test the links on this page, in particular the surnames link. Karen

In a message dated 5/10/2006 9:25:40 AM Mountain Standard Time, akibb1@verizon.net writes: A half-farmer means that he had a profession besides his farm. Usually they were butchers, bakers, innkeepers, etc. and also had a small farm holding. My ancestral family were large farmers but they were also blacksmiths.... mostly tool makers. They probably also made horseshoes if there were no farriers in their village. The word "half" can also refer to the size of a farmer's land-holding. Historically the word "Manor" was used to describe land holdings. A full manor was the largest holding and usually was associated with a Meierhof or very large farm, often owned by the local nobleman. A half-manor was also fairly large farm in terms of the "average" holding. A quarter-manor was on the large side of average. I don't have my notes on how these land-holdings equated to modern hectares of acres at my fingertips. There may be tables of old weights and measures on the Internet. Karen

Pam I have an Eva Drescher in my lines back to the 1740s They lived in Haid, Bohemia any connection? Jean in Fl.

Thanks, Karen! I'll try that. Jakob Smith was looking into it for me, but didn't get anywhere in Pilsen. I haven't heard from him in a while, but since he graduated, hopefully his career is taking off! I'll try Robert and then Peter. Thanks!! Becky KarenHob@aol.com 05/12/2006 12:53 To PM GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com cc Please respond to Subject GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing @rootsweb.com search for family... In a message dated 5/10/2006 8:32:34 AM Mountain Standard Time, Becky.Champion@equifax.com writes: The manifest lists their origination as Klattau. All list members who are looking for new approaches should explore the VSFF website as one of the alternatives. Have you hired anyone to look at Pinker name in church records for Klattau/Klatovy in western Bohemia? There was a military caserne in Klattau so soldiers were always there. You may get some help on the surname from someone who is connected with genealogy in Klattau. Robert Froetschl, a German researcher, goes there from time to time and may have a surname database. His edress in 2002 was: Froetsch(a)aol.com Peter Pawlik may be able to direct you to another researcher. Get his Edress at: http://www.bischofteinitz.de/verein.htm See also: http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/SUD/kreise.html#bw Karen ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To browse the archives, go to: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail postmaster@equifax.com.

Karen: Thanks for asking - the actual manifest states "Prussia". The Ancestry.com page states "Preußen". Both siblings departed from Bremen - Anton went to New York, while Johanna went to Baltimore. One more question - I have a glass mug which has etchings of birds and "Bad Schwalbach" on it. There is also a ceramic tag fastened onto the handle with 1794 imprinted. My great-aunt (now deceased), stated that it came from either Johanna or Anton and was their mug to use on the ship when immigrating. Have you ever heard of such things as mugs or utensils being given to the passengers? Thanks, Becky KarenHob@aol.com 05/12/2006 12:32 To PM GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com cc Please respond to Subject GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing @rootsweb.com search for family... In a message dated 5/10/2006 8:32:34 AM Mountain Standard Time, Becky.Champion@equifax.com writes: PreuBen. Are you sure that is not Preussen? The double S in old German resembles a B. Karen ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail postmaster@equifax.com.

In a message dated 5/10/2006 8:32:34 AM Mountain Standard Time, Becky.Champion@equifax.com writes: The manifest lists their origination as Klattau. All list members who are looking for new approaches should explore the VSFF website as one of the alternatives. Have you hired anyone to look at Pinker name in church records for Klattau/Klatovy in western Bohemia? There was a military caserne in Klattau so soldiers were always there. You may get some help on the surname from someone who is connected with genealogy in Klattau. Robert Froetschl, a German researcher, goes there from time to time and may have a surname database. His edress in 2002 was: Froetsch(a)aol.com Peter Pawlik may be able to direct you to another researcher. Get his Edress at: http://www.bischofteinitz.de/verein.htm See also: http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/SUD/kreise.html#bw Karen

http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/SUD/kreise.html#bw The URL above has some very well-priced Heimat books for sale. Tachau-Pfraumberg districts are represented as well as some general information books about the Bohemian Forest. Many of the books are full of pictures. One covers a history of Bohemian Forest Glassworks. Glasindustrie im Böhmischen Wald 12,50 € Topographie der Glashütten, Schleif- und Polierwerke, von Z. Prochazka, 2. Auflage, dt./tsch., 320 S., viele Abb., Karte This book includes a map showing locations of glassworks. It is only EU 12.50. There is a sales Edress at the bottom of the list of books. It is the head of the Tachau - Pfraumberg Heimat group. He can direct any inquiries about specific places to the proper "Betreuer" or cooordinator for that place. Karen

I don't have them translated, but do have JPGs of pages 243-266 of Sommer's Budweiser Kreis (which includes Krummau) made for me by someone in Germany with access to a book. I suppose I could ask him if he would mind if I uploaded them to the GBHS site or something. They are not translated and not indexed, however -- people should be aware they are in old German Gothic type. Linda T. BTW, I do get matches on some of the 1654 tax records with my names -- but had to do the "in between" to the start of church records with land records. ----- Original Message ----- From: KarenHob@aol.com<mailto:KarenHob@aol.com> To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 12:27 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Manorial records and J G Sommer In a message dated 5/10/2006 10:12:02 AM Mountain Standard Time, lindatherkela@msn.com<mailto:lindatherkela@msn.com> writes: As Aida points out, some of them may have been there quite a long time in the same house -- but the church records do not begin until usually the 1700s, perhaps a very few in late 1600s. Don't forget about tax records that go back to 1654 for people who had enough assets to pay taxes at that time. Other tax surveys for the 17th and 18th century are available. There are also various census -- mostly for conscription prior to 1850 or so, so they will only have male names. However, in some areas, there are land records that exist. They would have been kept by the local landowners (the lords or monasteries) -- they needed to keep track of who was paying the rent, robot, other taxes, etc. They do show the passing of a house from father to son, and also some of the other payments to the siblings from the child who got the house and farm, sometimes provisions to the widow, and even some remarriages; some of them act as court records. So it is possible to track back some of the lines farther. This will not help you if one of the families is "landless," and noninheriting children are not always mentioned. The records Linda refers to are generally called "Manorial Records" by the LDS and archivists. They are often filed under the name of the noble family that owned the dominion on which given peasants lived. There are a few on film at the LDS....very few. Professional researchers can usually find out about the ownership for you and tell you what might be available before they visit an archive on your behalf. Then you can choose what you want researched -- land transfers, marriage contracts, last wills and testaments or court (justice) proceedings. To learn the names of the noble lords that owned an ancestral town or village use J.G. Sommer's books: Das Konigreich Boehmen. The history of ownership is on the first pages under the title / chapter heading for each Herrschaft or Dominion. Even if you cannot read German you may be able to pick out the names of the nobles and the years associated with them. In any case you should copy ALL of the pages associated with an ancestral dominion and get the relevant ones translated. I would like to request that anyone who has had Sommer pages translated please make the translations available by putting them up on the Internet or telling the list what you have to share with interested people. There is one website at which the entire Elbogen Kreis book by Sommer is to be translated. The site currently has 383 pages on the Internet. (many thanks to Urs Geiser for this work). http://home.xnet.com/~ugeiser/Genealogy/Bohemia/contents.html<http://homexnet.com/~ugeiser/Genealogy/Bohemia/contents.html> Karen ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/<http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/>

Hi Pam & everyone, call me slow (comes from being downunda?? lol) but just noticed Weber in your name list Pam, where & when? some of my Palatine German/Mohawks connect to Weber family in Stone Arabia NY pre-revolt. My Stevens/Dachstader-Docksteader line that were UEL. intersting if we connect there too best wishes & love to everyone willow (Bohemian German great-great-grandparents Franz Franz b Bohemia & Therese Drescher b Bohemia, emigrated with children to USA 1890s, possibly 'converso' Jewish way back too -- really enjoyed everyone's insights on that these last few days) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam" <pam@ewebexpress.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Searching for family before 1700 or where did they come... > again - thank you for this history lesson ... I'm learning SO MUCH!! > > blessings~ Pam in MO > > ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ > Warrenton, MO > http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com > http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com > Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, > CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, > SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, > DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, > THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <KarenHob@aol.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Searching for family before 1700 or where > did > they come... > > > In a message dated 5/9/2006 10:58:11 PM Mountain Standard Time, > akibb1@verizon.net writes: > but not all villages had churches and they only appear when the churches > were built and the recording started. > > All villages belonged to a parish community. Some people walked up to > 8-10 > km to get to church. Shoes were expensive and they would walk in their > bare > feet when weather permitted or in wooden shoes with thick woolen socks (if > they had no boots) and put on shoes just before entering the church. > > The vital records for all the villages in a single parish community would > be > kept in the church. > > Some older villages that had churches lost their pastors and the church > was > designated a chaple and was used only on certain days special to the > community > like a certain saint's day (the patron of the village). If there were > enough residents in a village with a church a chaplain might be assigned. > He was > like an assistant pastor and he would say masses on sundays and hear > confessions but the other sacraments like baptism, confirmation, marriage > had to be > conducted at the main parish church except emergency baptisms. Some > villages > built churches in the hopes that they would get a chaplain. The > churches > that were not consecrated parish churches might be used as meeting places > for > prayerful events other than Holy Mass and the sacraments. One such event > might > be saying goodby to and praying for village men who had been drafted. > > Once a church was consecrated, its use for "lay" events would be > restricted. > > Some village chapels were very small and would not hold many people. > Those > small chapels would not qualify to have a chaplain but the priest would > still > come from the parish center to say masses there on a special day. The > village would gather outside around the chapel because there might only be > room > inside for some of the most "important" people. > > The next step up for a church was to be designated a filial; (affiliated) > church. > They would have a priest permanently assigned but they were still not > considered a parish church. In theory they served only one place rather > than a whole > community of several places even if people from neighboring villages > preferred to go there rather than all the way to the parish center.. > Filial churches > could perform all the sacraments that did not require a bishop but they > did > not keep the records -- everything they recorded was sent to and kept at > the > main parish church. > > Filial churches could become parish churches if there were enough > residents > supporting them. They would then begin to keep their own records. > > When an ancestral village is known the next step is to learn the name of > the > parish community to which it belonged if it was not itself a parish > center. > It is also important to know how long it was a parish center. If it > received > that designation relatively late then some records of ancestors born there > may be with another nearby parish. > > J.G. Sommer's 16-volume collection" Das Königreich Böhmen" lists each > village in Bohemia (not including Moravia) by name and tells were its > residents went > to church and the name of the church. Gregor Wolny "Das Markgrafschaft > Mähren" does the same for Moravia. Each author wrote one volume for > each > district of either Bohemia or Moravia. An author search of the World > Catalog > should find the works of both authors - ask your research librarian to > help > you > find the book(s) you want -- the one(s) for your ancestral districts. > Sign up > for lending privelges at a college or university library to get copies of > these books at the least cost. > Check if that library will let you take a book that is more than 100 years > old out of the library reading room. (A teacher or other person > associated > with > the same institution may be able to get the books for free, take them to > his/her office and to use them for up to three months vs. 2 weeks for a > student or > other borrower.) > > An interesting complication regarding church records is how many churches > changed from catholic to protestant -- back and forth more than once -- > over the > period when religion became a political power tool among many of the > nobility. When a nobleman converted for whatever reason he would demand > that > everyone of his serfs would also convert and he would designate all > churches > in his > dominon as the denomination he chose. Even though all of the churches > began > as Catholic parishes, many became protestant for a time during the Hussite > wars and then, again, during the reformation. They returned to Roman > Catholic > inbetween those two episodes. After the Thirty Years War the areas of > Bohemia that needed new population were settled by Catholics. The Kaiser > demanded > that all noblemen either convert or swear allegiance to a Catholic Kaiser > (if > they fought on his side during the war) and that all the population of > Bohemia should be Catholic. The city of As (Asch) was allowed to remain > protestant > as were parts of Moravia (different politics there). > > So when you are looking for ancestral vital records you may find that the > church of Stes. Peter and Paul in XXX village first has documents in > Latin > written by a priest and then in Czech or German written by a protestant > pastor and > then in Latin again until German became the official language for all > records > after 1740. There are some military church books dated later than 1740 - > 1760 > that are still in Latin and I have seen reports of a few records dated as > late as the 1780s that were in Czech. > > Always remember that if your ancestors were of a different denomination > than > the denomination "of record" of their parish church, the records for that > parish should still be searched. > > Local parish churches even recorded Jewish vital records when there was no > other means for that -- no nearby synagogue or Rabbi who would take care > of > it. > > Searching the films at the LDS using the keyword "Jewish" will sometimes > show a title for a Catholic church. This in not a mistake. Examine the > film > notes for that title and there will probably be a film or two with notes > saying > it includes some records for Jewish residents of the area. > > Likewise if a search for "Evangelical" or "brethren" or "ultraquist" hits > on > a title that is not that denominatioon it may simply mean that at one time > that church was an Evangelical church or that a few protestant records are > included in the church books because there was no protestant pastor to > take > care of > that. > > Karen > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To browse the archives, go to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ > >

In a message dated 5/10/2006 8:32:34 AM Mountain Standard Time, Becky.Champion@equifax.com writes: PreuBen. Are you sure that is not Preussen? The double S in old German resembles a B. Karen

In a message dated 5/10/2006 7:03:32 AM Mountain Standard Time, kkautz@clear.lakes.com writes: I have been researching my parents surnames in Europe.....Could anyone help me out with these names? Thank you anyone for some help. Karen Kautz This is another too-general request for help. Have you looked at Germans to America books in US libraries to find their name on a ships list with a possible birthplace? Have you done any of the other things I ask about in my prior Email? You do not say if they were German or Austrian or from Bohemia. If they were "Germany Germans" this is not the right list for help. You need one that is for "German genealogy" not for Germans specifically from Bohemia if they were not born in Bohemia. Karen

Hello Pam, You wrote in part: > I knew from my own research that the Catholic church since its > conception in the 3rd century under Constantine forcibly (thru > economic or religious) would have many subjugated countries convert > to RCC or suffer the consequences. ******* It's not true that Emperor Constantine founded the RCC (Roman Catholic Church): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I_(emperor) http://gbgm-umc.org/UMW/Bible/ce.stm http://www.reformation.org/council_of_chalcedon.html ________ Lavrentiy Krupniak .

In a message dated 5/11/2006 8:53:40 PM Mountain Standard Time, KarenHob@aol.com writes: If your ancestor was associated with glass blowing in Bohemia, there were a number of Bohemian glass workers who went to Sweden from the Gablonz area in 1938-39. It is possible they chose to go to Sweden (to escape occupation by the Third Reich) because others from their area had already settled there in the past. There is probably a history of Swedish glassworks with some information about German-speaking glass workers who came from Bohemia in the 1800s. One summary page is: http://www.midnightsun-designs.com/default.asp You have some starting points in the information there. Always explore all the links on the left side of any website you find. Reread my Email mention of Althutten in Bukowina when you explore the hits on an LDS surname search. Karen

I am posting the surnames I am looking for with the info I have found from research and where I have looked (after reading someone elses email about another inquirer.) Kakuska; father and sons arrived early 1860 from Bohemia. My records say arrived in Boston but I have searched those lists. Eventually moved to Chicago. I can trace them with census records and they do say Bohemian both for themselves and both parents. Other name is Kamin. They also list Bohemian as country of birth. But traced them to Pomerainia (spelling error). I have not been able to find them on any of the local genealogy sites, or lists. Both are buried in Bohemian cemetery in Chicago. Looking for these names somewhere to start tracing again. Terrie

In a message dated 5/11/2006 9:56:53 PM Mountain Standard Time, windwalk@metrocast.net writes: Vinzenz Dobishek and his wife Anna along with their daughter came from Austria Bohemia around 1870 to Watertown Wisconsin. He died 24 Oct 1905 Whenever a general question like yours is posted you have a better chance of getting a helpful response if you include information about what research you have already done. Did you do the surname search on the home page at familysearch.org? Did you do a surname search on the Internet to find others with that name who may know something? What have you already done to discover his origin? Have you looked at his obituary and the obits of his pallbearers for information about a birthplace? Have you studied a centennial book of his parish for information about groups of immigrants who settled in the same place? Have you looked at the records of soldiers in the Austrian army in the LDS film: Grundbuchblatter Diverse (for the name associated with a birthplace). Have you looked at centennial books about the town where he settled for immigrant group information? Have you looked for naturalization records if any member of the family became a citizen? Karen

Hello, I am researching the surname Kakuska, Edward Jacob, Barthlemuel, Antoine, Frank. My family history says they came from Bohemia when Edward was a young child. I have checked port lists, Ancestry.com, ect. I checked a few surname lists. I have not been able to find this surname. Any help anyone? Thanks, Terrie

and again - thanks! :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] g'day Pam -- re your Weber & thanks all for Jewish info Ahans may be a misspelling of Ahaus - try this! Aida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam" <pam@ewebexpress.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] g'day Pam -- re your Weber & thanks all for Jewish info > WEBER > > Well, my Weber's are on my husband's side - and unfortunately, I haven't > done a WHOLE lot of searching on 'that' side :-) ... need to get around to > that as I seem to be the ONLY researcher on both sides!! > > anyway - the furtherst back I have is a Joseph WEBER Sr. born 1-05-1833 > Coerbecke Kries, Germany d. 1-12-1892 in Teutopolis, IL - he m. Catherine > PROBST b 7-19-1841 in Kries Ahans Prussia (I've been told that doesn't > make > sense - but haven't figured it out yet :->) and d. May 10, 1904 in > Teutopolis, IL. > > I have children from that marriage and most ended up in St. Louis, MO or > close counties in IL. > > any help? > > ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ > Warrenton, MO > http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com > http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com > Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, > CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, > SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, > DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, > THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Willow Aliento" <evajune@bigpond.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:48 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] g'day Pam -- re your Weber & thanks all for > Jewish info > > > Hi Pam & everyone, > call me slow (comes from being downunda?? lol) but just noticed Weber in > your name list Pam, where & when? some of my Palatine German/Mohawks > connect to Weber family in Stone Arabia NY pre-revolt. My > Stevens/Dachstader-Docksteader line that were UEL. > intersting if we connect there too > best wishes & love to everyone > willow > (Bohemian German great-great-grandparents Franz Franz b Bohemia & Therese > Drescher b Bohemia, emigrated with children to USA 1890s, possibly > 'converso' Jewish way back too -- really enjoyed everyone's insights on > that these last few days) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pam" <pam@ewebexpress.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:56 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Searching for family before 1700 or where > did > they come... > > >> again - thank you for this history lesson ... I'm learning SO MUCH!! >> >> blessings~ Pam in MO >> >> ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ >> Warrenton, MO >> http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com >> http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com >> Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, >> CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, >> SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, >> DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, >> THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <KarenHob@aol.com> >> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Searching for family before 1700 or where >> did >> they come... >> >> >> In a message dated 5/9/2006 10:58:11 PM Mountain Standard Time, >> akibb1@verizon.net writes: >> but not all villages had churches and they only appear when the churches >> were built and the recording started. >> >> All villages belonged to a parish community. Some people walked up to >> 8-10 >> km to get to church. Shoes were expensive and they would walk in their >> bare >> feet when weather permitted or in wooden shoes with thick woolen socks >> (if >> they had no boots) and put on shoes just before entering the church. >> >> The vital records for all the villages in a single parish community would >> be >> kept in the church. >> >> Some older villages that had churches lost their pastors and the church >> was >> designated a chaple and was used only on certain days special to the >> community >> like a certain saint's day (the patron of the village). If there were >> enough residents in a village with a church a chaplain might be assigned. >> He was >> like an assistant pastor and he would say masses on sundays and hear >> confessions but the other sacraments like baptism, confirmation, marriage >> had to be >> conducted at the main parish church except emergency baptisms. Some >> villages >> built churches in the hopes that they would get a chaplain. The >> churches >> that were not consecrated parish churches might be used as meeting places >> for >> prayerful events other than Holy Mass and the sacraments. One such event >> might >> be saying goodby to and praying for village men who had been drafted. >> >> Once a church was consecrated, its use for "lay" events would be >> restricted. >> >> Some village chapels were very small and would not hold many people. >> Those >> small chapels would not qualify to have a chaplain but the priest would >> still >> come from the parish center to say masses there on a special day. The >> village would gather outside around the chapel because there might only >> be >> room >> inside for some of the most "important" people. >> >> The next step up for a church was to be designated a filial; (affiliated) >> church. >> They would have a priest permanently assigned but they were still not >> considered a parish church. In theory they served only one place rather >> than a whole >> community of several places even if people from neighboring villages >> preferred to go there rather than all the way to the parish center.. >> Filial churches >> could perform all the sacraments that did not require a bishop but they >> did >> not keep the records -- everything they recorded was sent to and kept at >> the >> main parish church. >> >> Filial churches could become parish churches if there were enough >> residents >> supporting them. They would then begin to keep their own records. >> >> When an ancestral village is known the next step is to learn the name of >> the >> parish community to which it belonged if it was not itself a parish >> center. >> It is also important to know how long it was a parish center. If it >> received >> that designation relatively late then some records of ancestors born >> there >> may be with another nearby parish. >> >> J.G. Sommer's 16-volume collection" Das Königreich Böhmen" lists each >> village in Bohemia (not including Moravia) by name and tells were its >> residents went >> to church and the name of the church. Gregor Wolny "Das Markgrafschaft >> Mähren" does the same for Moravia. Each author wrote one volume for >> each >> district of either Bohemia or Moravia. An author search of the World >> Catalog >> should find the works of both authors - ask your research librarian to >> help >> you >> find the book(s) you want -- the one(s) for your ancestral districts. >> Sign up >> for lending privelges at a college or university library to get copies of >> these books at the least cost. >> Check if that library will let you take a book that is more than 100 >> years >> old out of the library reading room. (A teacher or other person >> associated >> with >> the same institution may be able to get the books for free, take them to >> his/her office and to use them for up to three months vs. 2 weeks for a >> student or >> other borrower.) >> >> An interesting complication regarding church records is how many churches >> changed from catholic to protestant -- back and forth more than once -- >> over the >> period when religion became a political power tool among many of the >> nobility. When a nobleman converted for whatever reason he would >> demand >> that >> everyone of his serfs would also convert and he would designate all >> churches >> in his >> dominon as the denomination he chose. Even though all of the churches >> began >> as Catholic parishes, many became protestant for a time during the >> Hussite >> wars and then, again, during the reformation. They returned to Roman >> Catholic >> inbetween those two episodes. After the Thirty Years War the areas of >> Bohemia that needed new population were settled by Catholics. The >> Kaiser >> demanded >> that all noblemen either convert or swear allegiance to a Catholic Kaiser >> (if >> they fought on his side during the war) and that all the population of >> Bohemia should be Catholic. The city of As (Asch) was allowed to remain >> protestant >> as were parts of Moravia (different politics there). >> >> So when you are looking for ancestral vital records you may find that the >> church of Stes. Peter and Paul in XXX village first has documents in >> Latin >> written by a priest and then in Czech or German written by a protestant >> pastor and >> then in Latin again until German became the official language for all >> records >> after 1740. There are some military church books dated later than 1740 - >> 1760 >> that are still in Latin and I have seen reports of a few records dated as >> late as the 1780s that were in Czech. >> >> Always remember that if your ancestors were of a different denomination >> than >> the denomination "of record" of their parish church, the records for that >> parish should still be searched. >> >> Local parish churches even recorded Jewish vital records when there was >> no >> other means for that -- no nearby synagogue or Rabbi who would take care >> of >> it. >> >> Searching the films at the LDS using the keyword "Jewish" will sometimes >> show a title for a Catholic church. This in not a mistake. Examine >> the >> film >> notes for that title and there will probably be a film or two with notes >> saying >> it includes some records for Jewish residents of the area. >> >> Likewise if a search for "Evangelical" or "brethren" or "ultraquist" hits >> on >> a title that is not that denominatioon it may simply mean that at one >> time >> that church was an Evangelical church or that a few protestant records >> are >> included in the church books because there was no protestant pastor to >> take >> care of >> that. >> >> Karen >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >> list? To browse the archives, go to: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ >> >> > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? > To browse the archives, go to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To search the archives, go to: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN

thank you so much! Pam ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ Warrenton, MO http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon The Saarland is now a State of Germany. It in the West across the Rhine towards France and South of Luxembourg. Try this link for location as a regional map go to this (both links are in English) http://www.tiscover.de/de/guide/5de,en,SCH1/objectId,RGN32de/home.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam" <pam@ewebexpress.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > All these names that my cousin Mary and I are looking for are located in > Moravia - the towns are Belotin, Polom, Jesenik (whcih I have located) - > andthen one that eludes me - Hladke Zivotice - is there a different name > for > that one? Also, another Michalek researcher has her ancestors in Saar in > Mahren - I know that Mahren is also Moravia - but can't find anything on > Saar ... any ideas? > > thanks! > Pam > > > ~Pam Frierdich-Staley~ > Warrenton, MO > http://www.michael-steppig-family-tree.com > http://www.frierdich-staley-familytree.com > Looking for surnames of MICHALEK (MICHAEL/EAL), DILLON, > CINNAUGHT/CANNAUGHT, > SCHALLOM, STEPPIG, MEES/MAES, REIS, FRIERDICH/FRIEDRICH, KRAFT, BANGERT, > DIESEL, HATTER/HOERTER, KIEFER, RAPP, MENTEL, SCHELLHORN, STALEY, WEBER, > THOELE, MITCHELL, PROBST, GOLD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <akibb1@verizon.net> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:28 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > > > Rabel and Hyncica are most likely Czech names. The German version would > be > Rabl from Rabe (raven) found in Bavaria. > Fieber and Gold is not listed, you might find it in with a Jewish name > search. > Schuert or Schürt is not listed there either. Sorry, dear, but this did > not > pan out very well. > Aida > > --------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <mpettyjohn@comcast.net> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 6:10 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Schramm and Lexicon > > >> Awesome news about Schramm. Thank you Pam for sending this request. Now >> we might have some leads on additional ancestors of Joseph. Aida, thank >> you for looking for Pam. We are cousins. Some other names we are >> researching thanks to a professional researcher we hired to research our >> great grandfather Josef Michalek ancestors are >> Rabel >> Hyncica >> Fieber >> Gold >> Schuert >> >> Aida, would you be so kind to look in your Lexicon to see if any of the >> above names ore in it. >> >> Thank you and Blessing, >> >> Mary Pettyjohn >> >> -------------- Original message -------------- >> From: "Helen" <hwhitemc@msn.com> >> >>> Hello Aida, >>> Could Schram, Schramm be the same as SCHRAMEK? >>> >>> Could that magic book of yours find; >>> >>> LOY in Steiermark; >>> PEKAR in Bohmerwald >>> SCHRAMEK anywhere, possibly in Moravia? >>> All German, Catholic, and for sure in mid 1700's before emmigrating to >>> Bukovina >>> 1800. >>> >>> This web site is the best. Thanks to you and Karen. I read every entry >>> and >>> save many many as I search for my Bohemian ancesters. >>> >>> You two are THE BEST!!!!! >>> Helen White >>> ----------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> > Frierdich might be a misspelling of Friedrich, there is nothing listed >>> > under >>> > Frierdich! >>> > Michalek is a Czech name. >>> > Steppig must be some phonetic scramble, it is not listed in the >>> > Lexicon. >>> > Stoppich, ditto as above >>> > Schramm: now here is a hit ...this means "a scar" and is recorded for >>> > one >>> > Breitbeck mit der Schramme 1459 at Stolberg, and a schramecht Hensel >>> > 1396 at >>> > Budweis, and as Peter Schrammer 1381. In the Glatz (Silesia) it is >>> > recorded >>> > as Schremmel in 1353. >>> > Aida >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Pam" >>> > To: >>> > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:34 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... >>> > >>> > >>> > > so would you have any idea what the following names meant? >>> > > >>> > > Frierdich >>> > > >>> > > Michalek >>> > > >>> > > Steppig/Stoppich >>> > > >>> > > Schramm >>> > > >>> > > thanks! >>> > > Pam >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? >> Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >> > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? > To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To browse the archives, go to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/

Hello Karen, Could you be more specific regarding the name of the book(s) "Germans to America"? Do you have an author name? I would like to see if my library has it. Do you think a mormon family history center would have a copy of this book? Thanks, Debra ----- Original Message ----- From: <KarenHob@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Grossbach and Kautz families > In a message dated 5/10/2006 7:03:32 AM Mountain Standard Time, > kkautz@clear.lakes.com writes: > I have been researching my parents surnames in Europe.....Could anyone > help > me out with these names? Thank you anyone for some help. Karen Kautz > This is another too-general request for help. > > Have you looked at Germans to America books in US libraries to find their > name on a ships list with a possible birthplace? > > Have you done any of the other things I ask about in my prior Email? > > You do not say if they were German or Austrian or from Bohemia. > > If they were "Germany Germans" this is not the right list for help. > You need one that is for "German genealogy" not for Germans specifically > from Bohemia if they were not born in Bohemia. > > Karen > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To browse the archives, go to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ > > >

Thank you for this most fascinating turn of thought. Now I must admit ignorance...what do you mean by a "lead document"? -----Original Message----- From: Aida Kraus [mailto:akibb1@verizon.net] Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 8:21 PM To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... To Cynthia: Wordelmann = or any derivative has no listing in the name lexicon. That does not mean it did not exist spelled that way, but it may not be German, but Dutch, Flemish, Danish, Norse or Swedish. I suggest that you look in those areas because Prussia was close to all these \Nordic countries. Check out some of their surname search engines. From the name alone you cannot trace your ancestry, you have to establish a lead document. THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT! Aida __________________________