Hello Karen, Did villages keep two sets of Kirchenbücher (church books) one for military and another for the permanent residents of the village? Thanks, Debra

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Karen and All; The Free Search of the Ellis Island Database is at http://www.ellisisland.org <http://www.ellisisland.org> To view the results, you must register - but registration is free.

Hi Becky, It appears that he changed his e-mail address, I did reach him at froetschlrf@t-online.de, Herb Schwarz ----- Original Message ----- From: <Becky.Champion@equifax.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > > > > I couldn't get to him either, but I tried Peter, as Karen suggested. I'll > keep you posted! > > > > > > "Herbert Schwarz" > <schwarzs@ebtech. > net> To > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com > 05/13/2006 11:41 cc > AM > Subject > Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing > Please respond to search for family... > GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L > @rootsweb.com > > > > > > > > > With reference to Robert Froetschl, I tried a few month ago to send him a > e-mail, but it was returned. Does anyone on the list know if he still is > around, or has he a new e-mail address ? Herb Schwarz Ontario,Canada > <schwarzs@ebtech.net> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <KarenHob@aol.com> > To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 12:53 PM > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > > >> In a message dated 5/10/2006 8:32:34 AM Mountain Standard Time, >> Becky.Champion@equifax.com writes: >> The manifest lists their origination as Klattau. >> All list members who are looking for new approaches should explore the >> VSFF >> website as one of the alternatives. >> >> Have you hired anyone to look at Pinker name in church records for >> Klattau/Klatovy in western Bohemia? >> >> There was a military caserne in Klattau so soldiers were always there. >> >> You may get some help on the surname from someone who is >> connected with genealogy in Klattau. Robert Froetschl, a German >> researcher, goes there from time to time and may have a surname database. >> His edress in 2002 was: Froetsch(a)aol.com >> >> Peter Pawlik may be able to direct you to another researcher. >> Get his Edress at: >> http://www.bischofteinitz.de/verein.htm >> >> See also: >> http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/SUD/kreise.html#bw >> >> Karen >> >> >> ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== >> Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the >> list? To browse the archives, go to: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ >> >> > > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? > To search the archives, go to: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN > > > > > > > This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be > confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please > refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this > information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have > received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail > postmaster@equifax.com. > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html > >

My husband has told me that he accesses the ships list databases via Cyndi's list. Her newest home page is well worth studying and surfing. One link to Ellis Island records from her page is: http://www.ellisislandimmigrants.org/ellis_island_records.htm But it links you to Ancestry.com. You would do just as well to go to the Ellis Island site directly. You can probably use Ancestry.com databases free at your local public library, at a local LDS FHC or maybe at a college or university library. My husband said there is a free database but I did not find it. I will ask him to demonstrate getting there ASAP. Karen

One last comment about ships lists. The Ellis Island searchable free databases are available at the Ellis Island website. They go bact to 1892. I did some searching there with some ancestral names although most of my direct ancestors were already in the US by 1870 -- before there was an Ellis Island. I got a couple of hits on the name or a soundalike name (optional list comes up when there is no direct hit). One of them was an 18 year old girl from the town where my ancestor's parish church was located. If you are searching for a birthplace, it might be a very good idea to look at the places of birth of people with your surnames who arrived at Ellis Island and to make an not of their birthplaces. The hits could point out a parish to search or maybe a district in which to look for military records. Don't forget there are also databases for Castle Garden (immigrants to NY prior to Ellis Island). Just search the net with: Castle Garden database. Karen

I am not promoting a product, I am mearly pointing out that it is available to those who might want it. http://www.genealogical.com/content/products_cd.html&zenid=5087586f8d073106fa0 822ce7e1edd7a Buying an Index CD can be cheaper overall than travel to the nearest NARA regional archive several times to view them there (I have to drive to Denver and back -- 140 miles RT - $30 in terms of mileage costs). Fot the location of NARA regional offices by state see: http://www.archives.gov/locations/states.html The nearest ones for MN appear to be east of Cedar Rapids and in Chicago . The LDS should have the indexes. Be sure to check there before checking anywhere else. Use websites like the one above to find the title words with which to search he LDS catalog. Don't forget LDS accesses Ancestry.com and all their databases -- free for patrons. But you can be restricted to using a computer for only one hour if other people are waiting so you may have to go back several times to get everything y ou need. You can also order the microfilms of the ships lists and census from the LDS. Karen

In a message dated 5/15/2006 10:28:19 AM Mountain Standard Time, KarenHob@aol.com writes: All of them will probably require you to log in with you library card number and a password you have registered. I meant this for when you log in from your home PC. You should not need a card number to use the computer catalog access in the library. Karen

The German word for emigrant is Auswanderer. Ancestor is Vorfahrer; Ancestors is Vorfahren Research is Forschung. Any word that includes that word is associated with research. Anyone who is going to look at German links for genealogy research should have his German-English dictionary handy. There are genealogy links associated with German immigrants listed at the new website for the emigration museum at Hamburg-Ballinstadt that is under construction. See: http://www.ballinstadt.de/de/meine_vorfahren/forschungsportale.htm ALL German websites have a link for Kontack or Informationen somewhere. If you can't handle the German, Email them in English. If you write in English, make your letter as short as possible. Use simple sentences or ask questions in a list of one-liners. Do not have long sentences with lots of commas in them. End with a request to refer you to someone who can help if they cannot. If you can read German but cannot write it (like me) you should tell them it is OK o reply in German. Karen

You really should post this to the GB list. Karen And so I will, Aida Here is something we have to consider reading church records: Persons who are listed with a profession are recorded with a Village name and a house number. But this house number does not mean that the recorded person is the owner of this house. We can only assume that they lived there, but not that it BELONGED to them. I am finding residents on farms that have lived with the owners in the same house over generations (because that same house number appears again and again). This is what sometimes happens: because they are living in this house for so many years they are also given that house's "house name," but in reality they are not the "owning family." For example: lets take the Smith family who lives on the Brown farm. The Brown farm's name is called "Longfield." When a baby is born in that house, like a newborn to the Smith family, that child might be called "Longfield Jack" (in German: Langfelder Hans) and may be recorded that way!!! When that happens, backtrack to the parents and grandparents to get the actual surname, Schmidt (Smith) in this case. And also when the Braun (Brown) family has a child born on this farm named Mary, it is known as "Longfield Mary" (in German Langfelder Mizzi) but the two children are not even related!!! And if you go on a surname search for "Langfelder" you will not be able to find them at all. So be sure that you trace your "lead documents" bearing the surnames from one generation to the next! (Also watch for the same abbreviations of names you find in English like Bill for Williams, etc, because Johann is Hans, Friedrich is Fritz, Maria is Mizzi and Elisabeth: Ella, Elsi, Li! esl, Betti, Lisa etc.) It seems to me that this was a prerogative of some Priest to record the house name in very old records (but not from 1730 up!) because it seems to happen in the same old registers at the same church and during the same time that this official is in charge of the register. If this happens, you do not know who belongs to whom! (Maybe they did not either - smirk!) However, MOST of the records show the proper surname, thank God! It this happens in German registers more often than in other languages. And while they are recording housenames, I found that regardless who records births, marriages or deaths using either proper name and/or housename, they are quite strict in recording the person's profession, (often also the profession of the father of a newborn child or a bride and groom) and in addition there is a often one of these words: Bauer, Häusler, Zahradnik (Gardener) or Hausbesitzer, and only then can you be sure that they were the owners. People so titled ar! e also found in the tax lists. A "Bauer" is farmer with a full spread, "Häusler" is most likely a craftsman operating a smaller farm, "Gardener" is employed elsewhere and just grows his vegetables and raises small animals around the house he owns, and a "Hausbesitzer" is a Burgher in a town, a free man. The people that lived in these houses were either the owners or renters (in towns) or retainers that had lived in that house with the original family for centuries. These people were not treated as servants at Egerländer farms or in the houses of a Burgher; that happened only when they worked for the nobility. Most of them sat at the dinner table with the owners and became "like family" and that actually was carried forward to modern times... I found several of those in my Egerlander farm families and they intermarried frequently. I have yet to find a journal to see how wages and subsistence was divided. I believe that just living on the farm or in the house made them a part of its function. I thought I should point this out, to give this Hausbesitzer, Bauer, Häusler and Gardener the correct connotation.

AT: http://www.deutsche-auswanderer-datenbank.de/German_Emigrants_Database.51.0.ht ml There is a link for information and service. Karen

There will soon be ads promoting the WorldCat serach tool (OCLC) that is available at member libraries all over the US. Below is a cross posting from the Genealogy Libratrians list. I tested the URL and found that there is a tutorial about using the WorldCat resouces that is downloadable in PDF format. You will have to have Adobe Reader on your desktop or Start Menu to open the file. If you do not have it, you can download the current version free from the Adobe.com website. To access WorldCat I log onto my local library catalog. I choose Ereference and then Internet. The Internet resource page has WorldCat (First Search) listed. Some libraries may have it listed only as First Search which you click on and then choos the next link you want. Other libraries may have differently-designated links to get to the WorldCat link. All of them will probably require you to log in with you library card number and a password you have registered. Some may permit you to login as "our guest" but they may not permit that more than a couple of times. Libraries who offer these services to patrons may have coded your library card to represent your tax distrtict. If you live in an area that is outside the library tax district it may mean that your area does not support the library and your card number will not let you access the "members only" services. If that is the case, use your card number and a "guest" access if you have that option. Or visit the library with the subscription and use the catalog on their system. Ask your librarian is there is any way you can access it with a donation/subscription to the library if you can't use any of the options above. WORLDCAT ADS TO APPEAR IN GENEALOGY MAGAZINES In response to requests by librarians for help in marketing library resources to patrons, OCLC has placed small ads promoting libraries as the source of an excellent genealogical research tool - WorldCat on FirstSearch - in three popular genealogy magazines. These ads will run for a year in Everton's Genealogical Helper, Family Chronicle, and the FGS Forum, starting with their May/June or Summer 2006 issues. OCLC chose genealogy due to the depth and breadth of printed and digitized online historical material represented in WorldCat and due to the popularity of genealogy in general. Libraries may also download materials promoting WorldCat for genealogical research from <http://www.oclc.org/firstsearch/support/promoting/default.htm> including: * the base magazine ad for local genealogy newsletters or magazines. * a full page ad OCLC has placed in major genealogy conference syllabi, and * a bookmark promoting WorldCat on FirstSearch for genealogical research. All of these materials point to the WorldCat: focus on genealogy web site (http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/genealogy/), which explains to genealogists why WorldCat is an effective genealogical research tool, explains how to find it or ask for it at their library, and includes a detailed tutorial on how to use WorldCat on FirstSearch for genealogical research. Deborah L. Bendig Product Manager, Discovery View WorldCat OCLC Online Computer Library Center 6565 Frantz Rd. Dublin, OH 43017 Email: dbendig@oclc.org Phone: 1-800-848-5878, ext. 5084 or 1-614-761-5084 Fax: 1-614-718-7433 <http://www.oclc.org/worldcat> http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/genealogy/ <http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/genealogy/>

I couldn't get to him either, but I tried Peter, as Karen suggested. I'll keep you posted! "Herbert Schwarz" <schwarzs@ebtech. net> To GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com 05/13/2006 11:41 cc AM Subject Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing Please respond to search for family... GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L @rootsweb.com With reference to Robert Froetschl, I tried a few month ago to send him a e-mail, but it was returned. Does anyone on the list know if he still is around, or has he a new e-mail address ? Herb Schwarz Ontario,Canada <schwarzs@ebtech.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: <KarenHob@aol.com> To: <GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Renewing search for family... > In a message dated 5/10/2006 8:32:34 AM Mountain Standard Time, > Becky.Champion@equifax.com writes: > The manifest lists their origination as Klattau. > All list members who are looking for new approaches should explore the > VSFF > website as one of the alternatives. > > Have you hired anyone to look at Pinker name in church records for > Klattau/Klatovy in western Bohemia? > > There was a military caserne in Klattau so soldiers were always there. > > You may get some help on the surname from someone who is > connected with genealogy in Klattau. Robert Froetschl, a German > researcher, goes there from time to time and may have a surname database. > His edress in 2002 was: Froetsch(a)aol.com > > Peter Pawlik may be able to direct you to another researcher. > Get his Edress at: > http://www.bischofteinitz.de/verein.htm > > See also: > http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/SUD/kreise.html#bw > > Karen > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the > list? To browse the archives, go to: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To search the archives, go to: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GERMAN-BOHEMIAN This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail postmaster@equifax.com.

True, but when I look at some of the German websites, I cannot figure out where to go on the site to get to a surname search... KarenHob@aol.com 05/12/2006 03:20 To PM GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com cc Please respond to Subject GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Bremen Ships @rootsweb.com List In a message dated 5/12/2006 12:11:29 PM Mountain Standard Time, Becky.Champion@equifax.com writes: My problem is that my ancestor sailed in 1892. Everything I've seen (in English) so far, only goes back to 1904... Why does it have to be in English?? Surnames can be read in any language. Karen ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== Would you like to see messages that were posted before you joined the list? To browse the archives, go to: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L/ This message contains information from Equifax Inc. which may be confidential and privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, please refrain from any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this information and note that such actions are prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify by e-mail postmaster@equifax.com.

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C7_01C67808.C5AEDA40 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone related to Prokosch, Knott, Eckstein, Domeier, that isn't already in contact with me, please contact me off list, Joan S., you too, I need your email address! Thanks Jack Knott Phone: 314-265-7778 Fax: 636-352-0181 jknott41@sbcglobal.net ------=_NextPart_000_00C7_01C67808.C5AEDA40 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Jack Knott.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Jack Knott.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Knott;Jack;;L.O. FN:Jack Knott ORG:U.S. Lending TITLE:L.O. TEL;WORK;VOICE:314-265-7778 TEL;HOME;VOICE:636-946-7779 TEL;CELL;VOICE:314-265-7778 TEL;WORK;FAX:636-352-0181 TEL;HOME;FAX:636-352-0181 ADR;WORK:;314-544-1900;12430 Tesson Ferry Rd, Suite 110;Saint = Louis;MO;63128 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:314-544-1900=3D0D=3D0A12430 = Tesson Ferry Rd, Suite 110=3D0D=3D0ASaint Louis, MO 6312=3D 8 ADR;HOME:;;1806 Glenn Abbe Ct;St. Charles;MO;63303 LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:1806 Glenn Abbe Ct=3D0D=3D0ASt. = Charles, MO 63303 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jknott41@sbcglobal.net EMAIL;INTERNET:jknott41@sbcglobal.net REV:20060515T151729Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_00C7_01C67808.C5AEDA40--

Karen, And the journey keeps getting more interesting. Thank you Karen. Mary -------------- Original message -------------- From: KarenHob@aol.com > In a message dated 5/14/2006 3:33:49 PM Mountain Standard Time, > ullman@easystreet.com writes: > Schramms somehow moved from Moravia to the Petersburg area. I have not seen > any evidence of that so far. Do you have information which suggests this > conclusion? If so, what is it? > If you use Saar Czech Republic in a Stetlseeker search you find another Saar > that is located in Moravia. > > Karen > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Forgotten how to UNSUBSCRIBE? > Visit http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/mailinglist/mailinglist.html >

Karen, You are correct. It is now to the point I need to try other sources one of which is to try to find relatives who still live over there. Lord willing, I will have to visit my ancestors' homeland. I will also need to do some library searches and find a good genealogy library and then go to a local LDS. Thank you for all of your help. Mary -------------- Original message -------------- From: KarenHob@aol.com > In a message dated 5/13/2006 4:10:46 PM Mountain Standard Time, > mpettyjohn@comcast.net writes: > > I found a site with a link to the tax rolls but the link no longer worked. > Do you know a site where I can find the villages of that era. > Being servants does not mean they were on the staff at the castle. As Aida > said, just about every farmer's wife had a servant in the household if they > could find one to work for the pay they offered, and the farmers had them as > field hands and other helpers with the farm work. > > ------------------------ > > > Always try non-working links on another browser before giving up. > > Always try the first part of the URL as a separate search and then see if you > can go to other pages on the site if you find it is still there. > > All of us reach the point when we cannot do any more on the Internet except > collect information about where you have to go to find more information. > > You may be at that point and you will have to bite the bullet and start using > other sources. > > > ------------------------- > > > The tax rolls index does not have the places that are in the same estate > sorted. The index is by surname and jumps all over the map. You have to know > the name of the estate to find all the places if you want to page through the > whole thing looking for that. > > Aida has had that index and maybe she knows if there is an index in the back > that would refer you to all the pages for surnames related to one estate. > ------------------------ > > > You may find data on specific estates tax rolls in Heimat books associated > with your ancestral area but they will be in German. Of course that is not all > that important when dealing with place names and surnames associated with > each. They read the same in German or English. > > You may get some help on that by writing to the librarians at one of the > Heimat libraries and asking if they have a book that would include your > ancestral > places. > > > There is the Haus der Heimat in Nürnberg and another in Stuttgart. > Bibliothek@hdhbw.BWL.de > > The librarians at both places know English. Sometimes they will scan stuff > they have and Email it to you. Otherwise you get hard copy via snail mail and > you should offer to pay for that. > > ----------------------------- > > > Try Shtetlseeker.com to search for places by coordinates and see what it > comes up with if you use general numbers like 50; 13 or 50,7 > > If you find a place like Zdar and then click on the blue M link in the line > with it on the hit list you will get a map showing its location. That should > at least show the main places around the Schloss and you should be able to > find the German place names for the same places if you need them for parish > records. > > ---------------------- > > If you can't find a database a map will do if it is detailed enough. You > can get one from the University of WI library that would show the location of > the Schloss and all the places in the area around it. > > You may find the same information with German place names on the map at > http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/31-50.jpg > That map seems to include most of the sites on the MapQuest map generated at > Shtetlseeker. > ----------------------------------- > > > I don't know why the older maps do not have the same longitude that Aida said > is the correct one. Does anyone know when / if latitude designation changed? > > -------------------------- > > > The only source I know that lists the villages that belonged to a certain > noble estate would be the J.G. Sommer books. Even though they were written > between 1833 and 1849 they include older history of ownership of the estates > listed. The one for Elbogen Kreis may work for you on interlibrary loan. > > If you want more current history you may have to search with the name of the > noble family that was the last owner to see if they sold it and when. Or > maybe search with the name of the Estate. > > The estate may not be named Saar. Find Saar in the book's index and it will > take you to the pages that follows the chapter heading (name of the estate). > Page backward until you reach the title page for the name of the estate and > turther research. > > The estate may not have the same name as the parish, either. > > -------------------------- > > I understand there are some books out there that have maps of the old noble > estates of Bohemia but I have yet to find the maps. It is possible that there > are also maps that go with the individual district books about the Berni > Ruly/Berni Rula. But they would represent an earlier time when districts were > not at all the same and noble estates may also have been significantly different > in terms of their borders. > > If any list members knows about these books or the book that has the maps, > please tell the list the title and author. > > Karen > > > ==== GERMAN-BOHEMIAN Mailing List ==== > Visit the German-Bohemian Heritage Society Web Page! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >

In a message dated 5/14/2006 3:33:49 PM Mountain Standard Time, ullman@easystreet.com writes: Schramms somehow moved from Moravia to the Petersburg area. I have not seen any evidence of that so far. Do you have information which suggests this conclusion? If so, what is it? If you use Saar Czech Republic in a Stetlseeker search you find another Saar that is located in Moravia. Karen

Here is the Charta in English which every German Bohemian should read to understand to what ethnic group he belongs. It was signed 5 years after the expellation in August 1950. http://www.bund-der-vertriebenen.de/derbdv/charta-en.php3

Mary - Perhaps my off-line suggestions, while well-intended, were ill-advised. Both Karen Hobbs and Aida Krauss have provided you with excellent suggestions to your request, but they lacked the information we had already exchanged off-line. We have gained the following from their responses: 1) it appears that the plural of Czernin is Czernys, not Czernins as I had previously thought. 2) Although I have visited the parish records sites Aida sent many times, I never noticed that Petrohrad Chateau was at one time known as "Schloß Petersburg bei Saar/Böhmen." This suggests that the Saar reference you were seeking might describe a wider area than just that of the village of Saar. Saar (CZ: Zdar) is about ten km south of the chateau. 3) I am feeling confused about our direction. There are a number of other things mentioned in the responses to your inquiry, but I am feeling that we are doing the very thing I suggested we not do and that is to speculate that your Schramms somehow moved from Moravia to the Petersburg area. I have not seen any evidence of that so far. Do you have information which suggests this conclusion? If so, what is it? I am speaking from the perspective of one who has chased many Ullman possibilites of my own imagining and found few of them (even those with the most promising sound to them) to have any substance. That doesn't mean I have given up on them, but my standard for deciding to pursue unfounded possibilities has risen over the years. As I mentioned off-line, I do have paper copies of the Tax List of 1654 for Petersburg and some of the other estates in the area which I will read thru for your non-Schramm ancestors who lived in Bohemia if you send me the name(s). I can do the Schramms also if you wish. But please fill me in on where this is headed (or where you think it might be headed). I hope I am not being too harsh. Aside to Aida - I was able to open the site you were unable to access. The listing which includes Petrohrad shows as "Petrohrad/Sazava [0]". I think the reason you could not open it is because of the (0) which means there are no reconstructions going on in that area at this time. That is false, however, as I was there last October and they were just finishing a first-rate job of restoring Chateau Petersburg. We were able to walk around the grounds which we could not do two years earlier when it was still involved in its long-time use as a hospital for the mentally ill. In October the patients had been moved out and I don't know if it will return to being a hospital or not. Perhaps the website just hasn't been caught up yet. But thank you for discovering this site. I'm not sure I would ever have stumbled across it. Bob Ullman ullman@easystreet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: mpettyjohn@comcast.net To: GERMAN-BOHEMIAN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 2:28 PM Subject: Help with locating the Petersburg Great Estate Does anyone know how to locate the list of servants for the Petersburg Great Estate for 1654. I tried the Kingdom of Bohemia website but did not know how to use it. When I do a google search for this estate and Sossen I only get hits for Petersburg Russia. I found a possible lead on Schramm. Mary ______________________________