Indeed, Daniel, the German and Czech speech boundaries were used to define the so called Sudetenland, and it was in 1938 that these ethnic groups separated. Prior to that, and all during the monarchy's rules for over 400 years, they were never separated. There is no doubt that the influence of politics separated these people while they had a history of peaceful coexistence and dependence on one another. Actually, their cruel separation came with the influence of religion and political interest. Although German speaking pockets are found historically all through Bohemia, there were hardly any Czech speaking people in Western Bohemia before 1918, particularly in the area called " Egerland" which originally belonged to Bavaria. However, there were Slavic Sorbs (or Sorbo) within the East part of Germany, in the location from Lusatia to southern Berlin. Wherever two speech boundaries meet, the languages there spoken become interchangeable. You are finding the same here on the North American continent, for instance in Canada where French and English are adjoined, and Spanish and English in the Southern States. Aida ---------------------------------------------- On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 1:46 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Thank you Aida, > > > > It is wonderful that you share with all of us your vast knowledge of the > German - Bohemian history. > > My father family is full Bohemian, but when I talked to my Grandfather > years ago he seemed to > > believe there was not a real border between them. Both Grandparents knew > how to speak both > > languages. > > > > As part of my mother's family, we have always thought of the Hughes family > as from Wales. As I dug > > further in history, I have found that the Hughes family were German family > who immigrated to Wales > > in the 11 to 12 century. They were a mining family who moved to new > sources in Wales, then on to > > Wisconsin in the late 1800's. > > > > Daniel Nechkash > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:53:56 PM GMT -05:00 Colombia > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Heidl and Prokosch > > I think I can provide some insight into the theory that they came with > glassworkers from Bohemia to Poland, but again, we have to go back to > history to trace the probable trail of your ancestors. Never forget > that the Austrian Hungarian Empire lasted over 400 years and > encompassed a huge area. This area was split into 9 countires after > WW1 (1918) and hence you find the original residents of Austria all of > a sudden in "other country". Austria Hungary was a multiethnical > country, something Europe is trying to achieve now, and outside forces > tore it apart when it was already in existence and a great military > threat to Great Britain. > Now we come to the glasswork theory. Bohemia also was a part of > Austria Hungary, and has very close ties to provinces of France, > namely Luxembourg (the Luxemburgers were Bohemian Kings) and > Alsace/Lorraine as well as part of Belgium. So... what do I see? I > see a trail.... and especially since the nobility is involved who were > the first to start up industries. Bohemia had huge glass and > porcelain manufacture, so had France. It is most likely that the > nobility took their best craftsmen with their retinue to other areas > of the Empire. > All you have to do is to search for historical maps on the > internet. Look at the old Austrian Hungarian map and then look where > your ancestors lived, and you will see that they were all within the > borders of the Empire. You'll find that the Austrian Hungarian > Monarchy encompassed within her original borders lands that are now > split away from the ancient motherland and were arbitrarily given to > Poland, Romania, Italy, and alsao entirely new countries were invented > in 1918 like Cechoslovakia and Yugoslavia at the Treaty of Trianon. > This was to appease the Slavic Nations who never had a homeland of > their own. Therefore, I am sure that the place you call "Poland" was > the Galicia of Austria Hungary. > This trail may explain your Kichard from France to the German > Glasswork areas of Bohemia, and from there to Poland. To bear this > out, I can assure you that I have French Names in my own family who > were Germans from French provinces and I found them even farther East > along the Danube, than yours. > Aida > > On 12/16/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello again, > > > > Thank you, Aida and Frank, for responding to my question about whether > my > > Kichard ancestors were of German origin. I'll follow-up on the > suggestions > > in your e-mails. > > > > I had previously heard from a German native that the Kichard name was > > likely not of German origin, but I had reason to believe otherwise, as I > > mention below. > > > > I still have Kichard family living in south-east Poland, and they believe > > they are of German heritage. > > > > The book, "Opis Powiatu Jasielskiego", a geographical gazetteer > published > > in Poland in 1908, describes the villages in that area of Poland. It > > states that my first Kichard ancestor, Jakub Kichard, arrived there in > the > > late > > 1700's with other "Germanized-Czech" glass-workers to set-up and operate > a > > glass-works for a Polish nobleman who was building a church and castle > > nearby. > > > > Archive records show that my Kichard ancestors lived in that village from > > that time up to 1945, almost 200 years, until the communist government > > forced all of the residents to move from the village at that time. > > > > Elderly Kichard relatives who once lived in that village and were among > > those forced to move out in 1945, still say that when they had lived > there, > > that when their young friends who also lived there were coming to visit > > them, and were asked by their family where they were going, they would > > say,"to > > see the Germans". > > > > Thus, family history and the above says that Kichard is a "German" name. > > > > However, since my first Kichard ancestor arrived in that area of Poland > > with other "Germanized-Czech" glass-workers, perhaps it is a Czech name > that > > is derived from an earlier German name. > > > > Any of your comments and further suggestions on my Kichard search will be > > appreciated. > > > > Thank you all again. > > > > Andy > > Pittsburgh, PA > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Very good, Karen, and it is easiest to continually copy to Microsoft Office One Note, because nothing will be lost EVER, even if you forget to hit the "save" button. I have the "One Note" Window open on my computer at all times. This is where "packrats" can store "pay-load". Aida ---------------------------- On 8/31/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > There has been some discussion of a website devoted to > Adlergebirge folk on the Sudeten List. They have given\ > several URLs for photos and other information. > > THE FOLLOWING IS FOR ANY AREA OF SUDETENLAND. Just > substitute the place / area name for other parts of Sudetenland. > > If you are interested in the area: > > Open Mozilla Firefox or Internet Explorer if you prefer. > > 1) go to translate.google.com > 2) Leave a page window with place to insert German text open > 3) Set the translation buttons for German to English > 4) Reduce the window to an icon on the toolbar at the bottom of your screen > > Open Firefox or IE again -- a NEW WINDOW > > Now do your search for: > 1) Adlergebirge > 2) Adlergebirge Verreine > 3) A place name or county or district in Adlergebirge > 4) Place, County or District with E.v. > > If you find a site you like LOOK AT TOP OF SCREEN for any indication there > is an ENGLISH > version of the site and click on that. All pages MAY NOT be in English but > key ones will. > > 1) Look on site directory on left side of screen and click on any word like > foto, photo > Explore > 2) Historie or other words to open other pages. > 3) When you find a page in German that is history you might want highlight > all the > text by dragging your cursor over it while holding the left button > down. > 4) Right click anywhere on the hightlighted text (not on a photo or other > image) > 5. Choose COPY on the drop down menu that appears > > 6. Click on the ICON on the toolbar at the bottom of your screen that will > open the > Google translate page. > 7. Place cursor in the little window for text to translate and left click. > 8. Click on paste on the drop down menu > 9. The German text should appear. IF not try repeat of steps 3-8 > 10. Click on TRANSLATE button and the translated text willl appear on the > right of the page. > > NOTE: Although the window for text is small it will take up to several > pages > of text you have copied from a website even though it does not all appear in > the window. > > 11. Highlight the English text on the translate page, paste it to > awordprocessor to print and / or save it. > Good idea to also have the blank word processor open on the toolbar at > the bottom of the > screen before you start this operation. You can continue to add to > it if you find more text you > want, BUT SAVE it with the first paste and then save it with each > addition or risk losing the whole thing. > > Karen > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: dick zimbrick <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 5:59 pm > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] eliminated villages - Adlergebirge > > > > > > > > > > > There is the town of Rathsdorf, now known as Skuhrov, which is near Usti nad > Orlici which is not far south of Adlergebirge. Is this o > f any help. I am > intersted in this area myself. Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aida Kraus" <[email protected]> > To: "german-bohemian" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 2:14 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] eliminated villages - Adlergebirge > > > Frank, I don't know if you have this or not, but I came across the > village of Rassdorf, which no longer exists. Perhaps you should file > the names of the bulldozed villages in the Königgrätz (Hradec Kralove) > area. I copy this message to the List for those who are researching > the Adlergebirge (north-east corner of the Czech Republic bordering on > Poland): > http://www.sudeten.at/wDeutsch/wersindwir/geschichte/orte/landschaften/orte_08_adlergebirge.shtml > Aida > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There has been some discussion of a website devoted to Adlergebirge folk on the Sudeten List.   They have given\ several URLs for photos and other information. THE FOLLOWING IS FOR ANY AREA OF SUDETENLAND. Just substitute the place / area name for other parts of Sudetenland. If you are interested in the area: Open Mozilla Firefox or Internet Explorer if you prefer. 1) go to translate.google.com 2) Leave a page window with place to insert German text open 3) Set the translation buttons for German to English 4) Reduce the window to an icon on the toolbar at the bottom of your screen Open Firefox or IE again -- a NEW WINDOW Now do your search for: 1) Adlergebirge 2) Adlergebirge Verreine 3) A place name or county or district in Adlergebirge 4) Place, County or District with E.v. If you find a site you like LOOK AT TOP OF SCREEN for any indication there is an ENGLISH version of the site and click on that.   All pages MAY NOT be in English but key ones will. 1)  Look on site directory on left side of screen and click on any word like foto, photo      Explore 2) Historie or other words to open other pages. 3) When you find a page in German that is history you might want highlight all the      text by dragging your cursor over it while holding the left button down. 4)  Right click anywhere on the hightlighted text (not on a photo or other image) 5.  Choose COPY on the drop down menu that appears 6.  Click on the ICON on the toolbar at the bottom of your screen that will open the      Google translate page. 7.  Place cursor in the little window for text to translate and left click. 8.   Click on paste on the drop down menu 9.   The German text should appear.   IF not try repeat of steps 3-8 10.  Click on TRANSLATE button and the translated text willl appear on the right of the page. NOTE:   Although the window for text is small it will take up to several pages of text you have copied from a website even though it does not all appear in the window. 11. Highlight the English text on the translate page, paste it to awordprocessor to print and / or save it.       Good idea to also have the blank word processor open on the toolbar at the bottom of the       screen before you start this operation.   You can continue to add to it if you find more text you       want, BUT SAVE it with the first paste and then save it with each addition or risk losing the whole thing. Karen     -----Original Message----- From: dick zimbrick <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 5:59 pm Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] eliminated villages - Adlergebirge There is the town of Rathsdorf, now known as Skuhrov, which is near Usti nad Orlici which is not far south of Adlergebirge. Is this o f any help. I am intersted in this area myself. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aida Kraus" <[email protected]> To: "german-bohemian" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 2:14 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] eliminated villages - Adlergebirge Frank, I don't know if you have this or not, but I came across the village of Rassdorf, which no longer exists. Perhaps you should file the names of the bulldozed villages in the Königgrätz (Hradec Kralove) area. I copy this message to the List for those who are researching the Adlergebirge (north-east corner of the Czech Republic bordering on Poland): http://www.sudeten.at/wDeutsch/wersindwir/geschichte/orte/landschaften/orte_08_adlergebirge.shtml Aida German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Karen,   Thank you for your insight. But just to keep the record straight, I did not write about the inheritance. I was the one inquiring. LaVerne, researching  PIETSCHMANN --- On Mon, 8/24/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Eger: German Reichstadt and laws To: [email protected] Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 5:54 PM In a message dated 8/21/2009 3:00:49 PM Mountain Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: There was a provision that farm-land could be distributed among siblings only up to a certain farm-size, and beyond that, there were no land gifts allowed. This was to safeguard the farm's agricultural income potential.  I cannot remember how much land was safe-guarded in this way, but I think that 20 hectares were the lowest limit. I believe Aida is correct about 20 Hetares being the minimum size for a farm. A farmer with less than that probably could not support a family.  Many farmers had a trade as well as farmland so the trade might provide secondary income. The reason I believe that 20 Hectares was the minimum is because that was the oft-repeated size of a small farm in land record books even into the 1860s. In some parts of the Bavarian borderlands / Bavarian Forest an extended farm family might all live together in one household - often a large two story  building with living quarters over the barn.   I believe Hirschau had a number of such farmsteads.   When those families reached the point that the farm could no longer support everyone, the family might agree that someone had to go -- often to America where there was cheap land available.     I suspect that those who departed were probably not the oldest sons and their families.    .  When a son left he may have been given some of his "inheritance" in cash if the family could afford it. Unmarried girls who left may have been given "dowry"  money. Raising the cash to help a family member depart might require selling some property, produce, livestock or contracting for service of some kind.   My great grandfather borrowed the money to pay his passage to America from his best friend and neighbor (Franz Biebl) in Severance Twp. MN.   His father, mother and younger brother followed after selling their farm about a year later, as did his uncle with his large family.   I have never tried to learn what was paid for either family's farm.   I know they had enough money when they arrived in Minnesota to buy more than the typical 80 acre first purchase by immigrants. It would be interesting to know who took  possession of the land that belonged to these two families back in the Egerland -- if a farmer living in the same village took a mortgage and took them over or if new people arrived to farm that land. The 1868 Austrian Law that had to do with conscription made the YOUNGEST son the inheritor because he was thought to be the one who would end up taking care of elderly parents. Older brothers would be off on their own property long before the need to care for their elders arose.  For that reason youngest sons -- and only sons-- were ineligible for the draft.      Another draft dodge was having a family farm that was large enough that one man could not work it himself -- so his sons were allowed to stay at home and work with him.   Their whereabouts would be monitored because if any of them chose to work elsewhere they had to have a worker's passbook. Many men were drafted when they were working away from their home place and they ended up in regiments from the place where they were living at the time. One thing that would affect land ownership by younger family members were marriage contracts.    Many of these old documents are still available in the various archives of the CR.    The groom was expected to contribute to establishment of a household capable of supporting a family and so was the bride.   Brides often brought land, livestock, money and household goods to a marriage.  The groom had to bring land, a trade (if possible), money and certain "gifts"  for the bride and her family. Larger farms could be the result of a farmer's son marrying an only daughter  or widow who had inherited a farm with buildings and land;  and that land would ultimately be combined with the son/husbands prior holding or marriage contract bequest or inheritance from his family.    Farmers who could afford it tried to purchase land adjoining theirs with mortgages, through marriage, trade services or any other means...marriage being the most common.    Sometimes these deals were arranged so that a farmer might exchange his field in an area convenient to his neighbor's for one of his neighbor's that was more convenient for him. Originally a farm holding might be in one or more long, narrow fields.    They were long and narrow because wooden plows were very difficult to turn.  When the iron plow was invented it solved the technical aspects of that problem but field configuration did not change for a very long time afterwards.   The elderberry hedges that often separated farmer's fields were very well established and may have discouraged combining neighboring fields even when a single farmer managed to get control of both of them. A farmer who had several fields might have one right behind his Hof, another beyond two or more neighboring fields and perhaps  even others that were some distance away. There were common pastures and  meadows (hay) in each village so farmers did not have to have the land to pasture livestock or grow hay. So land and other inheritance items could be distributed before the death of a property owner. The question is whether the authorities took any of that into consideration when setting up an "equitable" property division after his death. There was a Hungarian law that also demanded division of property among all heirs.   The result was that there were many impoverished and uneducated peasants with barely a garden who still had the right to vote in Hungary -- a right held only by the nobility at the time.    Some of the upper nobility got around the law and actually increased family holdings through marriages and other legal (and possible some illegal) machinations that they understood how  to use. One thing today's farmers should appreciate is that Bohemian farmers often carried large mortgages on their property in order to get more land, get the land into production and buy seed in the spring.  Some reasons to buy the seed they should have set aside from the last season's harvest was that they were not planting the same crop; soldiers had come through and taken all the grain; there was not enough from a poor harvest to feed a family through the winter so they had to eat set aside seed grains. Farmers would pay off their mortgages with profit from the harvest if they could.  Sometimes a balance was left to accumulate more each year until the lender would finally take the property.    There are many records of farmers complaining to the tax authorities and anyone who would listen that they expected their lenders to take over their property soon because they anticipated another bad harvest (most often because of bad weather), their livestock were sick or their livestock feed was rotten, their chosen secondary trade had no present market, or any number of other reasons.   The Chronicles of Mies tells of a terrible windstorm that destroyed forest land and farm crops just before the harvest one year.   Another report tells about a year when it was so wet at plowing time that the fields were thick mud in which oxen lost their shoes.   A series of bad harvests all in a row would bring land speculators who would start to produce the crops that were the most profitable during a dearth.   Sometimes they became very well off.   Other times the next season would have a bumper crop that drove down prices and they would end in the same financial trouble as the farmers from whom they bought their "cheap"  land. Lenders might be responsible for "collecting"  farms which they might choose to market in a new configuration (more or fewer fields) or they might combine for the benefit of their own families. Some of the more enlightened nobililty knew farmers had to learn to produce for a surplus and not just for subsistance.   A couple of the more wealthy nobles ran Agronomy schools where they taght farmers to improve their breed of cattle or sheep (Australian Merino sheep were introduced at one such school), and to introduce new machinery and techniques like crop rotation.  Some nobles even let farmers in their districts use prize bulls, rams and other livestock as sires for improved breeds. Some of those schools were still in operatiion after 1848. Karen German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Again, thank you Aida for explaning the background of that law. I knew that German law divided the estate equally, including daughters, and I always wondered how small they would eventually get.   Since I grew up in St Louis I could compare it to the history here. When it was a French colony anyone could own property, including a women, black or white. When the US bought the Louisiana Purchase the laws followed the English colonial system and there were lawsuits for many, many years.    LaVerne ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- On Thu, 8/20/09, Aida Kraus <[email protected]> wrote: From: Aida Kraus <[email protected]> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Eger: German Reichstadt and laws To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 10:55 PM Inheritance were under the German Reichs law, and that included the Egerland with parts of Bavaria.  In 1135 the regio Egere is recorded as a part of the Bavarian March of the Nordgau under the rule of Count Diepold III of Vohburg. After his death in 1146, the Egerland was inherited by the later Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa of Hohenstaufen by marriage with Diepold's daughter Adelheid. The marriage took place at Eger and the city was promised Reichsstadt status. The Staufer finally severed the Provincia Egrensis from Bavaria and built it up as an exemplary model of a Reichsgut territory under immediate rule of the Holy Roman Emperor. Along this development Eger became the site of a Kaiserpfalz residence.  Later, Emperor Rudolf documented the city's Reichstadt status in a declaration of June 7, 1279. No mention is made in this writ that there were any Czechs or Slavs in the area.   I have never seen this document mentioned in any of the Czech history versions but I have found the German wording translated from Latin on a recent German website: http://www.egerer-landtag.de/Dokumente/Privilegien1279.htm        The inheritance, you mentioned, La Verne, is part of these old laws under which family possession were distributed over inheritors. I believe that these laws were very old and I know that they were bumped up to my lifetime. I remember that larger farms or what is generally described as a "Gutshof" (farm estate) were under complicated and very old rules.  There was a provision that farm-land could be distributed among siblings only up to a certain farm-size, and beyond that, there were no land gifts allowed. This was to safeguard the farm's agricultural income potential.  I cannot remember how much land was safe-guarded in this way, but I think that 20 hectares were the lowest limit.  The way this worked out is such (that is, if the farm did not get sold - like in your instance, LaVerne) i.e.  the family picked one inheritor among the siblings, it mostly was the oldest or the youngest, but later on they allowed the most "apt" to do become the farmer and Chief inheritor.  To become the inheritor was a mixed blessing, and I want you to think that the burden of maintaining the farm might have been a consideration in your ancestors emigration.  That he owned horses puts your ancestor into a Gutshof bracket.  The inheritor was the only one remaining at the family's ancestral land, while the other male siblings apprenticed in other professions and moved away. Each inheritor (of each successive generation) had to acquire the possession by paying out equal shares of his inheritance to all siblings; this required at least 20 years. The siblings got yearly payments and they had to find their livelihood elsewhere. Mortgages were frowned upon.  The farm-revenues of the next 20 years where put into improvements of the farmhouse, farm buildings, wells, machinery, livestock, etc, so that when the next generation took over, the inheritor took over a place that was in good repair, because he in turn would eventually have to pay out his siblings and maintain the farm in at least as good a shape as he received it.  This is why these "Gutshöfe" were such proud and well cared for estates. In this way the family wealth was contained and perpetuated.  These governing German laws, were going back to the 12th century and they were terminated upon the expulsion of the German population in the 20th century.  Aida -------------------------------------- On 8/20/09, LaVerne <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Thanks, Aida for your input. I had forgotten about that Rootsweb site. > > Fortunately, I have actually seen some of the Hofs and the areas were my > Anspanner relatives lived. In one instance it was sold before they came to > America and I was privileged to meet the widow who now lived there. The gate > post still had a horse on it. The sale actually specified that he would have > use of some of his cattle and a horse for traveling until he left. > > In another instance I have a copy of the many pages of a will where the > personal effects and the farm were divided. In that case one son bought the > farm from the others. > > My Gaertner information is not so clear, because I have not seen the > property. But in the German records he is called a Buerger which I > understand meant he had to have a certain financial standing so he probably > owned a small farm. > > It does make me realize how difficult it is to take a word and just give it > one meaning. > > LaVerne, >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > --- On Thu, 8/20/09, Aida Kraus <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: Aida Kraus <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Specific names for farmers > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 4:49 PM > > > The explanation given for > EINSPAENNER -farmer with one horse; outsider; odd character; > grass widower  ------------  should not be taken literally, as listed > here.  Because the meaning for "Einspänner" is also a bachelor, or an > unmarried man, or one whose wife was gone for a visit for a few days. > It was also used for a hermit, etc.  But generally it is a person who > uses his one horse-cart for taxi services. > ANSPAENNER -  is also not quite correctly described, because while the > person of such a name could be a horse groomer, he would also be the > "driver of the team" : i.e. for a brewery, a transport company, or as > a farmer logging his land, pulling out tree trunks, loading his carts > with heavy loads........before the time when there were engines.  In > fact, some horses were still used when they had steam engines, because > they were not adaptable to all terrains.  A horse was! > Also, do not presume that the farming was the main occupation of your > ancestors, it was mostly - like in the case of a "gardener" - just the > provision for food for which no money was spent.  The income of the > small farmer or gardener was less from his crops and more likely by > the services of his profession.  They lived in the country side, had a > small farm, but worked as waiters, cooks, chefs, tailors, shoemakers, > leather workers, horse groomers, railroad employees, postmen, delivery > men, blacksmith, coopers, weavers, glassblowers, tanners, carpenters, > well drillers, masons, bricklayers, lumberjacks, transport persons > using their horses, and much more. > When in doubt, write to me for a more accurate description. > Aida > > On 8/20/09, Aida Kraus <[email protected]> wrote: >> La Verne, there is a glossary on rootsweb for this.  Anspänner can be >> both, firstly, a farmer, and secondly, that he uses his horse-team for >> transport of goods, also.   Most farmers had a profession besides >> their farm, and an Anspänner is definitely a person who uses his >> horse-team and wagon for transport.  There is another word >> "Einspänner" which means that a single horse is used like a taxi >> pulling a coach, and that use is mostly for local or short distances. >> Like from the railroad station to the home, or pickup of luggage. >> "Anspänner" use more hefty drafthorses and would be hired out for >> harder work. You can compare it to a car (taxi) or a truck >> (transport).   I have posted links of  various profession before on >> this site, so if you look in rootsweb and archives, you will find the >> various professions in both languages. Otherwise you can go there: >> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~romban/misc/germanjobs.html >> Aida >> >> ------------------------. >> >> On 8/20/09, LaVerne <[email protected]> wrote: >>> My dictionaries are failing me. >>> >>> I am looking for the specific German words used to describe farmers of >>> various kind. At some point I learned that an Anspanner was a farmer with >>> a >>> full size farm with draft horses. >>> Now all the dictionaries seem to say is that an Anspanner is a farmer. >>> >>> Then there is Gaertner which is translated as gardener. But some where I >>> learned that while a Gaertner might be a gardener in our sense of the >>> word, >>> it might also mean that he had a small farm, sort of a market Gardener. >>> >>> I know there were half farmers, which I believe was a Halbbauer, and even >>> quarter farmers. And of course there where hopbauer, weinbauer >>> . >>> Does anyone know of a site that discusses  the various possibilities? >>> >>> LaVerne, >>> >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Inheritance were under the German Reichs law, and that included the Egerland with parts of Bavaria. In 1135 the regio Egere is recorded as a part of the Bavarian March of the Nordgau under the rule of Count Diepold III of Vohburg. After his death in 1146, the Egerland was inherited by the later Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa of Hohenstaufen by marriage with Diepold's daughter Adelheid. The marriage took place at Eger and the city was promised Reichsstadt status. The Staufer finally severed the Provincia Egrensis from Bavaria and built it up as an exemplary model of a Reichsgut territory under immediate rule of the Holy Roman Emperor. Along this development Eger became the site of a Kaiserpfalz residence. Later, Emperor Rudolf documented the city's Reichstadt status in a declaration of June 7, 1279. No mention is made in this writ that there were any Czechs or Slavs in the area. I have never seen this document mentioned in any of the Czech history versions but I have found the German wording translated from Latin on a recent German website: http://www.egerer-landtag.de/Dokumente/Privilegien1279.htm The inheritance, you mentioned, La Verne, is part of these old laws under which family possession were distributed over inheritors. I believe that these laws were very old and I know that they were bumped up to my lifetime. I remember that larger farms or what is generally described as a "Gutshof" (farm estate) were under complicated and very old rules. There was a provision that farm-land could be distributed among siblings only up to a certain farm-size, and beyond that, there were no land gifts allowed. This was to safeguard the farm's agricultural income potential. I cannot remember how much land was safe-guarded in this way, but I think that 20 hectares were the lowest limit. The way this worked out is such (that is, if the farm did not get sold - like in your instance, LaVerne) i.e. the family picked one inheritor among the siblings, it mostly was the oldest or the youngest, but later on they allowed the most "apt" to do become the farmer and Chief inheritor. To become the inheritor was a mixed blessing, and I want you to think that the burden of maintaining the farm might have been a consideration in your ancestors emigration. That he owned horses puts your ancestor into a Gutshof bracket. The inheritor was the only one remaining at the family's ancestral land, while the other male siblings apprenticed in other professions and moved away. Each inheritor (of each successive generation) had to acquire the possession by paying out equal shares of his inheritance to all siblings; this required at least 20 years. The siblings got yearly payments and they had to find their livelihood elsewhere. Mortgages were frowned upon. The farm-revenues of the next 20 years where put into improvements of the farmhouse, farm buildings, wells, machinery, livestock, etc, so that when the next generation took over, the inheritor took over a place that was in good repair, because he in turn would eventually have to pay out his siblings and maintain the farm in at least as good a shape as he received it. This is why these "Gutshöfe" were such proud and well cared for estates. In this way the family wealth was contained and perpetuated. These governing German laws, were going back to the 12th century and they were terminated upon the expulsion of the German population in the 20th century. Aida -------------------------------------- On 8/20/09, LaVerne <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Thanks, Aida for your input. I had forgotten about that Rootsweb site. > > Fortunately, I have actually seen some of the Hofs and the areas were my > Anspanner relatives lived. In one instance it was sold before they came to > America and I was privileged to meet the widow who now lived there. The gate > post still had a horse on it. The sale actually specified that he would have > use of some of his cattle and a horse for traveling until he left. > > In another instance I have a copy of the many pages of a will where the > personal effects and the farm were divided. In that case one son bought the > farm from the others. > > My Gaertner information is not so clear, because I have not seen the > property. But in the German records he is called a Buerger which I > understand meant he had to have a certain financial standing so he probably > owned a small farm. > > It does make me realize how difficult it is to take a word and just give it > one meaning. > > LaVerne, > > > > --- On Thu, 8/20/09, Aida Kraus <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: Aida Kraus <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Specific names for farmers > To: [email protected] > Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 4:49 PM > > > The explanation given for > EINSPAENNER -farmer with one horse; outsider; odd character; > grass widower ------------ should not be taken literally, as listed > here. Because the meaning for "Einspänner" is also a bachelor, or an > unmarried man, or one whose wife was gone for a visit for a few days. > It was also used for a hermit, etc. But generally it is a person who > uses his one horse-cart for taxi services. > ANSPAENNER - is also not quite correctly described, because while the > person of such a name could be a horse groomer, he would also be the > "driver of the team" : i.e. for a brewery, a transport company, or as > a farmer logging his land, pulling out tree trunks, loading his carts > with heavy loads........before the time when there were engines. In > fact, some horses were still used when they had steam engines, because > they were not adaptable to all terrains. A horse was! > Also, do not presume that the farming was the main occupation of your > ancestors, it was mostly - like in the case of a "gardener" - just the > provision for food for which no money was spent. The income of the > small farmer or gardener was less from his crops and more likely by > the services of his profession. They lived in the country side, had a > small farm, but worked as waiters, cooks, chefs, tailors, shoemakers, > leather workers, horse groomers, railroad employees, postmen, delivery > men, blacksmith, coopers, weavers, glassblowers, tanners, carpenters, > well drillers, masons, bricklayers, lumberjacks, transport persons > using their horses, and much more. > When in doubt, write to me for a more accurate description. > Aida > > On 8/20/09, Aida Kraus <[email protected]> wrote: >> La Verne, there is a glossary on rootsweb for this. Anspänner can be >> both, firstly, a farmer, and secondly, that he uses his horse-team for >> transport of goods, also. Most farmers had a profession besides >> their farm, and an Anspänner is definitely a person who uses his >> horse-team and wagon for transport. There is another word >> "Einspänner" which means that a single horse is used like a taxi >> pulling a coach, and that use is mostly for local or short distances. >> Like from the railroad station to the home, or pickup of luggage. >> "Anspänner" use more hefty drafthorses and would be hired out for >> harder work. You can compare it to a car (taxi) or a truck >> (transport). I have posted links of various profession before on >> this site, so if you look in rootsweb and archives, you will find the >> various professions in both languages. Otherwise you can go there: >> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~romban/misc/germanjobs.html >> Aida >> >> ------------------------. >> >> On 8/20/09, LaVerne <[email protected]> wrote: >>> My dictionaries are failing me. >>> >>> I am looking for the specific German words used to describe farmers of >>> various kind. At some point I learned that an Anspanner was a farmer with >>> a >>> full size farm with draft horses. >>> Now all the dictionaries seem to say is that an Anspanner is a farmer. >>> >>> Then there is Gaertner which is translated as gardener. But some where I >>> learned that while a Gaertner might be a gardener in our sense of the >>> word, >>> it might also mean that he had a small farm, sort of a market Gardener. >>> >>> I know there were half farmers, which I believe was a Halbbauer, and even >>> quarter farmers. And of course there where hopbauer, weinbauer >>> . >>> Does anyone know of a site that discusses the various possibilities? >>> >>> LaVerne, >>> >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Aida: Thank you for the information, I will give it a try and see what turns up. This is the biggest lead I've had yet on this family. Just maybe I can knock down one of those walls. Bill forshay - San Antonio, TX ________________________________ From: Aida Kraus <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:07:04 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Bohemia Research Bill: It seems to me, that you have the same names as Cynthia Igl which you can find on the internet. See below. Why don't you look at this website and get in touch with her. If you want to go back to your ancestors in Unterhütten, there is a contact on the Bischofteinitz site, see Bischofteinitz website link below. For the Igl Family info go to http://www.geocities.com/c_igl/pafn262.htm The original church register for Unterhütten were kept at Muttersdorf and this is what it available in the archives at Pilzen: 7 SM 630 *i 1784-1811 Muttersdorf 8 *i 1811-1850 Muttersdorf 47 *i 1851-1877 Muttersdorf 48 *i 1878-1892 Muttersdorf 14 ooi 1784-1857 Muttersdorf 15 SM 3325 ooi 1857-1890 Muttersdorf 71 ooi 1890-1928 Muttersdorf (neu im Archiv) 18 +i 1784-1835 Mutterdorf 19 +i 1836-1889 Muttersdorf For more information on "Bischofteinitz" in go to: http://www.bischofteinitz.de/ and click on all titles at the left side. You can translate whatever might be of interest to you using this link, highlight, cut and paste into translator: http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en Hope this will get you out of the doldrums. Good luck! Aida On 8/20/09, Bill Forshay <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi List: > > I have the following Brick Walls that I need some help with: > > HUBATCH, Franz, b; 18 Oct 1874 in Unterhutten, > Kreis-Bischofteinitz, Bohemia. Immigrated 1892.Settled in Langlade > Co., Wisconsin with his wife Barbara FLEISCHMAN, b: 26 Dec 1880 also in > Bohemia. > > FLEISCHMAN, Wenzel, b: 15 Jun 1857, also in Bohemia, along with > his wife Katherine WILD, b: 13 Mar 1859 in Bohemia. Married 17 Oct > 1881, immigrated 1892, to Langlade Co., Wisconsin. > > Katherine WILD's parents are: > WILD, Michael, b: abt 1825 in Unterhutten, Pilsen, Bohemia, > died there in 1858. His wife was Maria MIRZOVA, b: abt 1825 and died abt > 1859 (maybe in child birth with Katherine). > > FLEISCHMAN, Paul, b: 29 Jun 1883 in Austria, immigrated 1884. > Married Anna Theresa DREXLER, b: 4 Sep 1889 in Langlade Co., > Wisconsin. > > Paul's FLEISCHMAN'S parents are: > Mathias FLEISCHMANN, b: Mar 1851 in Germany. Married Anna > WOLFE, b: 11 Jun 1855 in Austria/Bohemia, they immigrated 1884. > > Any help with these families will be greatly appreciated > > Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX > > > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My dictionaries are failing me.   I am looking for the specific German words used to describe farmers of various kind. At some point I learned that an Anspanner was a farmer with a full size farm with draft horses. Now all the dictionaries seem to say is that an Anspanner is a farmer.   Then there is Gaertner which is translated as gardener. But some where I learned that while a Gaertner might be a gardener in our sense of the word, it might also mean that he had a small farm, sort of a market Gardener.   I know there were half farmers, which I believe was a Halbbauer, and even quarter farmers. And of course there where hopbauer, weinbauer . Does anyone know of a site that discusses  the various possibilities? LaVerne,

> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:00 AM > Subject: INLAKE Digest, Vol 4, Issue 48 > > >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. newspaper weblink (cheryl BALOG wenberg) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:38:38 -0500 >> From: "cheryl BALOG wenberg" <[email protected]> >> Subject: [INLAKE] newspaper weblink >> To: <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> >> >> >> Chronicling America: Historic American Newspapers >> http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/ >> >> We love this site from the Library of Congress, which allows visitors to >> search and view newspaper pages from 1880-1910 and find information about >> American newspapers published since 1690. Chronicling America is >> sponsored >> jointly by the National Endowment for the Humanities and the Library of >> Congress as part of the National Digital Newspaper Program (NDNP). The >> site >> is fun, interesting, well designed, and regularly maintained. In fact, >> since >> our April 24, 2009 mention of the site they have added some new features. >> Most of the new features are behind-the-scenes, but users will notice >> some >> differences including "search results as thumbnail images, increased >> performance, and persistent (i.e., "bookmarkable") URLs in use throughout >> the site." In addition, they have improved the site to provide open >> access >> through standard protocols. >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To contact the INLAKE list administrator, send an email to >> [email protected] >> >> To post a message to the INLAKE mailing list, send an email to >> [email protected] >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the >> body of the >> email with no additional text. >> >> >> End of INLAKE Digest, Vol 4, Issue 48 >> ************************************* >

I have done some work translating the history of a town called Herrnbaumgarten. In that history there is mention that the town's noble owner had a very large estate that covered areas in both Bohemia and Austria.? It also stated that there were many changes of the borders and the town finally ended within Austria but just about on the border. There were also border changes between Bavaria and Bohemia that went on for over a century. I think it would be fair to assume that any place that is close to a national border today may have been in a Herrschaft (Noble Dominion or Estate) that straddled todays frontiers. Karen -----Original Message----- From: Larry Klauser <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, Aug 18, 2009 12:06 pm Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Sudetenland question John & Kathy: Like you, I am anxiously awaiting the answer to your inquiry.? My grandfather and his ancestors (going back to 1650) were from a town about 15 clicks north of the current Austrian border.? The town was Haberles and is now Ovesne.? Good luck. Larry --- On Mon, 8/17/09, John & Kathy Hartmann <[email protected]> wrote: From: John & Kathy Hartmann <[email protected]> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Sudetenland question To: [email protected] Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 7:15 PM I have ancestor that was supposedly born in Upper Austria just south of the Austrian Czech border. Being unsuccessful in locating him there, I am wondering if the border of Austria was once further north in what is now the South Bohemian region, so that it encompassed what is known as a portion of the Sudetenland. Although now in the Czech Republic, the entire region was part of the Hapsburg-ruled Austronesian-Hungarian Empire in the 19th century and was populated by German-speakers. Does anyone know about the history of the border in this area and if the Sudetenland part of the region was once part of Austria? German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If you go to this website you can see Austria Hungary in its entirety. See the inclusion of Bohemia and Moravia, north of Austria, which is now called the Czech Republic, and which was established as a separate country under the name of Czechoslovakia in 1918. This map also includes all the other ethnic territories which belonged to the monarchy called Austria Hungary. http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/austria_hungary_1911.jpg Aida On 8/17/09, John & Kathy Hartmann <[email protected]> wrote: > I have ancestor that was supposedly born in Upper Austria just south of > the Austrian Czech border. Being unsuccessful in locating him there, I > am wondering if the border of Austria was once further north in what is > now the South Bohemian region, so that it encompassed what is known as a > portion of the Sudetenland. Although now in the Czech Republic, the > entire region was part of the Hapsburg-ruled Austronesian-Hungarian > Empire in the 19th century and was populated by German-speakers. Does > anyone know about the history of the border in this area and if the > Sudetenland part of the region was once part of Austria? > > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have ancestor that was supposedly born in Upper Austria just south of the Austrian Czech border. Being unsuccessful in locating him there, I am wondering if the border of Austria was once further north in what is now the South Bohemian region, so that it encompassed what is known as a portion of the Sudetenland. Although now in the Czech Republic, the entire region was part of the Hapsburg-ruled Austronesian-Hungarian Empire in the 19th century and was populated by German-speakers. Does anyone know about the history of the border in this area and if the Sudetenland part of the region was once part of Austria?

Could someone please tell me what the abbreviation "L.C." means, when it is used under the column of "mother tongue" on US Census records? Example: Place of Birth - Bohemia, Mother Tongue - L.C. Thank you

L.C. stands for Language Census Aida On 8/9/09, SocksMyCat <[email protected]> wrote: > Could someone please tell me what the abbreviation "L.C." means, when it is > used under the column of "mother tongue" on US Census records? > Example: Place of Birth - Bohemia, Mother Tongue - L.C. > > Thank you > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Randy, If you know the DIOD (see the free SSDI at rootsweb.com) and the county where it happened you may be able to ask someone at the cout -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, Aug 6, 2009 1:17 pm Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Wisconsin Death Records i don't know if that is the same as the wisconsin geneology index, which is a very limited (only partial information) site as well as a a pay per info site, and since the info in limited to begin with, i don't want to have to pay for something that will not really get me any further in my research, but thanx anyways randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yvonne" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 12:42 PM Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Wisconsin Death Records > Hi Randy, > your in luck with Wisconsin, they have a lot of info online. You probably > will be able to order obits. I have been helping a German friend. One of > his > line emmigrated to Wisconsin and recently was able to order 8 obits. > Wisconsin has a very nice set up. Just put Wisconsin Genealogy in your > search engine and you will find lots of information. > > Have fun, > > Yvonne in California > > > > anything like this for Wisconsin? >>> >>> Randy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Randy, >> >> Try a web search or Google Wisconsin vital records, Wisconsin Cemetery >> records or Wisconsin death records. >> You may find they are on line at State level or scatter around at county >> historical society websites. >> >> Let the list know what you find! >> >> Karen >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: SANDY FAIRCHILD <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 4:44 pm >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Michigan death records on line >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.deathindexes.com/ >> >>> From: [email protected] >>> To: [email protected] >>> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:26:16 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Michigan death records on line >>> >>> anything like this for Wisconsin? >>> >>> Randy >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:18 AM >>> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Michigan death records on line >>> >>> >>> > http://seekingmichigan.org/discover-collection?collection=p129401coll7 >>> > >>> > Use the URL above to reach the search index page for Michigan >>> > death records.??? Enter a surname and view the original document. >>> > >>> > Karen >>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> > without >>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of >> the message >> >> >> >> >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What is the name that you are searching for in Wisconsin? You can find information for free, you just have to be patient. Taking just one look is not enough. When my German research friend ordered the obits he had to pay a search fee of $15.00 and $ 5.00 for the copies of the obits. That's all. He was very satisfied with their service and he got in the mail within three days. The money goes to the Wisconsin Genealogical Society. I am sure that most of the people working there are volunteers and the money sustains the work of the Society. Yvonne in California ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Wisconsin Death Records >i don't know if that is the same as the wisconsin geneology index, which >is > a very limited (only partial information) site as well as a a pay per > info > site, and since the info in limited to begin with, i don't want to have > to > pay for something that will not really get me any further in my research, > but thanx anyways > randy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yvonne" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 12:42 PM > Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Wisconsin Death Records > > >> Hi Randy, >> your in luck with Wisconsin, they have a lot of info online. You probably >> will be able to order obits. I have been helping a German friend. One of >> his >> line emmigrated to Wisconsin and recently was able to order 8 obits. >> Wisconsin has a very nice set up. Just put Wisconsin Genealogy in your >> search engine and you will find lots of information. >> >> Have fun, >> >> Yvonne in California >> >> >> >> anything like this for Wisconsin? >>>> >>>> Randy >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Randy, >>> >>> Try a web search or Google Wisconsin vital records, Wisconsin Cemetery >>> records or Wisconsin death records. >>> You may find they are on line at State level or scatter around at county >>> historical society websites. >>> >>> Let the list know what you find! >>> >>> Karen >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: SANDY FAIRCHILD <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 4:44 pm >>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Michigan death records on line >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.deathindexes.com/ >>> >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:26:16 -0500 >>>> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Michigan death records on line >>>> >>>> anything like this for Wisconsin? >>>> >>>> Randy >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: <[email protected]> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:18 AM >>>> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Michigan death records on line >>>> >>>> >>>> > http://seekingmichigan.org/discover-collection?collection=p129401coll7 >>>> > >>>> > Use the URL above to reach the search index page for Michigan >>>> > death records.??? Enter a surname and view the original document. >>>> > >>>> > Karen >>>> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> > without >>>> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >>> body >>> of >>> the message >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the >>> body >>> of >>> the message >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I don't think I introduced myself. My name is Yvonne (Scholz). I have lived in California for about 25 years and grew up in Düsseldorf, Germany. I am searching in Bohemia for my husband's line. His great-grand father, Adolph was born in Schoenwiese, Kreis Leobschütz. Adolph was born in 1865 and he had several brothers and sister. His oldest brother Herman Scholz also went to Amercia, but I don't know where. He died there in 1914. He was married to a Katharina Scholz and I believe they had three children, but I'm unable to find this information through www.familysearch.org. Adolph Scholz went to America and met his wife in Tennessee. Rosina Mücke born 1964 in the city of Hof in Moravia. Adolph parents were Franz Scholz 1835-1995 and Franziska Kieslich 1938-1914 Franz Scholz parents were Fridolin Scholz 1800-1850 und Karolina Widman/Wiedman. Fridolins parents were Johann Scholz und Magdalena Richter. Johann was born inKomeise Kreis Leobschütz and his wife Magdalena in Altstadt, Kreis Leobütz. Karolin Widman/Wiedman parents were Anton Wiedman 1780-1835 married to Johanna Selzer 1782-1822. They got married 13 May 1800 in Raden. Karolin Wiedmans Father was Friedrich Wiedman 1750-1796. Johanna Selzer parents were Johann Georg Selzer (1740-1800) and Elisabetha Grimm died 1786. Johann Selzer parents were Anton Selzer/Seltzer 1715-1769/1771 verheiratet mit der Maria Johanna 1719-1762/1795. Der Vater von Elisabeth Grimm war Martin Grimm 1710-1769 Franz Scholz 1835-1995 married Franziska Kieslich 1838-1914 in Schoenwiese 6 November 1855. Franziska Kieslich parents were Johann Kieslich 1810-1900 and Theresia Kunze born 1817. Note: I have no more information about Therersia Kunze neither more info about Johann Kieslich, except that they were married 1835 in Schoenwiese. I do hope that someone his researching these lines. What I have been able to find so far is on my web page at http://gw.geneanet.org/yscholz. You can register on ths site for free in order to get to my tree. Have a wonderful day Yvonne (Scholz), California

I have a need for a letter to be translated from English into German for an ancestor of mine in the Sudetenland. Can anybody help me? -- Paul H. Eberl (3/4 Bohemian, 1/4 German and proud of it!)

Missouri death certificates can be downloaded:    www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/birthdeath LaVerne, --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Dollie Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: From: Dollie Johnson <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Michigan death records on line To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:28 AM What about Texas? What address can I use to access the Texas information that is on line.  dj ___________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "SANDY FAIRCHILD" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Michigan death records on line > > > > http://www.deathindexes.com/ > >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:26:16 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Michigan death records on line >> >> anything like this for Wisconsin? >> >> Randy >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:18 AM >> Subject: [GERMAN-BOHEMIAN] Michigan death records on line >> >> >> > http://seekingmichigan.org/discover-collection?collection=p129401coll7 >> > >> > Use the URL above to reach the search index page for Michigan >> > death records.??? Enter a surname and view the original document. >> > >> > Karen >> > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site >> > http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/~gbhs/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Shirley, What year did your family make the trip? Bob On Aug 5, 2009, at 7:30 AM, [email protected] wrote: > I am interested in the train routes that my family traveled on from > Chicago, Illinois to the Wheatland area of Minnesota.? This would > be near Minneapolis, Minnesota. > Shirley > German-Bohemian Heritage Society web site http://www.rootsweb.com/ > ~gbhs/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMAN- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message