Hello Paula, Maybe you can help me clarify some Wittman questions. Rev. Francis Laing in his book, German Russian Settlements in Ellis County , Kansas wrote of the Mosel. 1454 souls took passage on the Mosel. Among thse listed were "John Wittmann (8), Peter Wittmann (3), Martin Yunker (8) , Peter Yunker (4), all of Herzog, Russia." "All of these , excepting Peter Yunker, who remained in Topeka until 1877, made their home in Herzog, arriving in Victoria August 3, 1876." If I am reading this correctly, there were 11 Wittmanns on this passage of the Mosel. I have a greatgrandfather, Peter Wittmann who arrived in Victoria in this migration. Perhaps you can tell me how he fit into this grouping. The four villages of Rohleder, Herzog, Graf and Marienthal were all within a stone's throw of each other, so where they lived in Russia was probably quite fluid, depending on the year. Liebenthal was only a short distance down the Karman River. And the repeat naming pattern will drive you crazy trying to figure out whether they are brothers; uncles cousins, sons and etc. Perhaps DNA is the only real way to answer the question. We do have our Peter Wittman's Y DNA on file. Descendants of Alexander Wittmann 1 Alexander Wittmann d: in Russia .. +Katherine Folwerk d: in Russia ...... 2 Peter Wittmann b: Mar 10, 1838 in Herzog, Russia d: Mar 03, 1918 in Victoria, Kansas, USA Occupation: Grain miller, owner; Herzog, Russia Immigration: 1876 SS Mosel Census: 1880 District 88, Ellis Co, Kansas .......... +Catherina Nussbaum b: Jul 14, 1845 in Russia d: Jan 22, 1915 in Victoria, Kansas ............... 3 Catherine Wittman ............... 3 Joseph Wittman b: Oct 16, 1874 d: Apr 16, 1889 in Died of influenza ............... 3 Barbara Wittman b: Aug 14, 1879 d: Aug 14, 1879 in Infant death ............... 3 Maria Wittman b: Sep 08, 1881 d: Aug 20, 1893 in Died of appendicitis. Is 93 or 98? ............... 3 Johannes Wittman b: Apr 25, 1883 d: Jan 10, 1902 in Victoria, Ks died trying to jump a freight train ............... 3 Margaret Wittman b: Aug 24, 1885 in Victoria, Kansas d: Dec 11, 1968 in Victoria, Kansas Burial: St. Fidelis Cemetery, Victoria, Kansas, USA THIS WAS MY GRANDMOTHER ................... +Andrew Klaus b: Sep 08, 1882 in Munjor, Kansas, USA d: Jul 20, 1966 in Victoria, Kansas, USA m: Apr 26, 1904 in St. Fidelis Church, Victoria, Kansas, USA Burial: St. Fidelis Cemetery, Victoria, Kansas, USA ............... 3 Anna Maria Wittman b: Sep 06, 1866 d: Sep 14, 1899 ................... +Alexander (Sr.) Geist b: Oct 1865 in Obermunjor, Russia d: May 21, 1918 in Hyacinth, Kansas tornado victim m: Nov 08, 1886 Burial: May 21, 1918 St John's Cemetery, Hyacinth, KS ............... 3 Wittman b: Dec 1876 d: Feb 28, 1878 ............... 3 John Wittman b: 1882 d: Sep 11, 1889 ............... 3 [1] Agnes Wittmann b: Aug 13, 1877 d: Aug 22, 1940 ................... +Bollig ............... *2nd Husband of [1] Agnes Wittmann: ................... +Martin Quint b: Mar 23, 1865 d: Oct 16, 1922 m: Apr 15, 1901 ...... 2 Johannes Wittman b: Dec 08, 1835 in Russia d: Apr 08, 1914 Immigration: Jul 29, 1876 New York New York S S Mosel Census: 1880 District 88, Ellis Co, Kansas .......... +Anna Catherine Brungardt b: Feb 1838 in Russia d: Feb 16, 1884 m: in Russia Immigration: Jul 29, 1876 New York New York S S Mosel ............... 3 Alexander Wittman b: Jun 15, 1864 in Herzog Russia d: Mar 15, 1943 in Park Kansas Immigration: Jul 29, 1876 New York New York S S Mosel ................... +Elizabeth Kreutzer b: Dec 08, 1869 in Russia d: Jul 31, 1960 in Park Kansas m: Jan 15, 1890 Immigration: Jul 29, 1876 New York New York S S Mosel ............... 3 Michael M Wittman b: May 17, 1874 in Russia d: Nov 10, 1957 in Walker Kansas Immigration: Jul 29, 1876 New York New York S S Mosel ................... +Margaret Braun b: Jun 04, 1876 in Herzog Russia d: Apr 17, 1913 in Walker Kansas m: Oct 09, 1894 in Herzog Kansas Immigration: Apr 17, 1888 Baltimore Maryland S S America ............... 3 Franz J Wittman b: Oct 26, 1883 in Herzog Kansas d: Jan 24, 1952 in Topeka Kansas Burial: Jan 28, 1952 Mt Calvary Cemetery, Topeka, KS ................... +Katharina Scheck b: Oct 21, 1883 in Herzog Kansas d: Apr 23, 1963 in Topeka Kansas m: Nov 24, 1903 in Herzog Kansas ............... 3 Anna Katherina Wittman b: Jun 10, 1862 ............... 3 Johannes Wittman b: 1867 d: Apr 26, 1884 ............... 3 Andreas Wittman b: 1871 ............... 3 Peter Wittman b: Jun 15, 1878 ............... 3 Barbara Wittman b: Nov 1880 ............... 3 Victor Wittman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paula Nevin" <Pnevin@pld.com> To: <GER-VOLGA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:22 PM Subject: Re: [GV] Wittman Family > Sharon, > Catharina Biel was born in Graf (Krutoyaroka), Russia to Peter and > Elisabetha (Storm) Biel. > > On July 15, 1875 she married Peter Witman in Liebenthal (Lubonirovka), > Russia. He was the son of Heinrich Johannes and Elisabeth (Stressler) > Wittman. > > They came to America on the SS Mosel in 1876 and settled in Herzog > (Victoria). They also lived in Colorado for a time. Between 1900 and 1910 > they moved to Marienthal, Wichita Co., KS where Catharina's brother Jacob > Biel and his wife Anna Maria Kreutzer were living. > > I have two pictures of Catharina, one when she was a young woman with her > parents and the other of her and Pete in Marienthal sitting in chairs > beside their adobe home probably shortly before her death.. > > I have a little more information if you are interested. Peter and > Elisabetha (Storm) Biel were my GG Grandparents. I'm descended from their > son, Jacob Biel. They had other children that also came to America. > > Best wishes, > > Paula Nevin > Holcomb, KS > > > > > At 12:54 AM 8/11/2007 -0500, you wrote: >>I am trying to find info re: Peter and Catherine (nee Biel) Wittman. I >>don't know what village they came from in Russia. This is what I do know >>about them: >> >>Peter was born in Russia abt. 1853 & died in Leoti, KS on 3 Apr 1936. He >>is buried in an unmarked grave in the Marienthal cemetery. >> >>Catherine was born in Russia 4 Jul 1855. She died 25 Jul 1924 in Leoti, >>KS & is also buried in an unmarked grave in the Marienthal cemetery. Her >>parents were Jakob Biel and Maria Storm. >> >>Peter & Catherine came to Victoria, KS on 3 Aug 1876, along with their >>daughter, Anna (my great-grandmother). Anna was born 19 Apr 1879 in >>Russia. She married John Schupman (alt. sp. Schuckman) on 24 Sep >>1904. She died 25 Nov 1947 in LaCrosse, KS. >> >>Peter & Catherine's other children, from what I have gleaned from U.S. >>Federal Census records, were: >> >>Peter, b. abt. 1886 >>Heinrich, b. 23 Oct 1888 >>John, b. abt. 1890 >>Joseph, b. 28 Jul 1892 >>Maria, b. abt. 1893 >>Conrad, b. abt. 1895 >>Katherine, b. abt. 1898 >>Abraham, b. abt 1899 >> >> >>-- >>Have a great day :-) >> >>Sharon McGinness >>smcginness1@cox.net >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Frank, I haven't really worked much with the Wittman's except as they pertain to my Biel family and I too am confused about the Wittman's on the Mosel. The group of Wittman's that Rev. Laing refers to actually number 13 on the passenger list and I don't believe they are my Wittmans. I say mine came on the Mosel because that information was in Die Herzoger. I still need to make my way through those 1454 souls to see if there isn't another family that can be mine. The group on the passenger list are: Johann age 41 Anna 38 Alexander 11 Anna 14 Johannis 7 Michael 2 Andreas 4 Peter 6/12 Catharina 62 Peter 37 Catharina 35 Anna 8 Joseph 1 I think they are on pages 740 and 742 of Die Herzoger. That would be Johannes Wittman son of Alexander and Katherine (Folwerk) Wittman and his wife Anna Catherine Brungardt. The ages are right for this family. Catharina age 62 is his mother and Peter age 37 and Catharina age 35 are his brother and sister in law. Could that Peter born March 10, 1838 and married to Katharine Nussbaum be yours? Is my thinking sound on this? The names seem to work for my family but not the ages so I'm still looking for mine. Hope I haven't muddied the waters too much. Paula At 03:57 AM 8/14/2007 -0500, frank jacobs wrote: >Hello Paula, > >Maybe you can help me clarify some Wittman questions. >Rev. Francis Laing in his book, German Russian Settlements in Ellis County >, Kansas wrote of the Mosel. 1454 souls took passage on the Mosel. Among >thse listed were "John Wittmann (8), Peter Wittmann (3), Martin Yunker (8) , >Peter Yunker (4), all of Herzog, Russia." >"All of these , excepting Peter Yunker, who remained in Topeka until 1877, >made their home in Herzog, arriving in Victoria August 3, 1876." >If I am reading this correctly, there were 11 Wittmanns on this passage of >the Mosel. > >I have a greatgrandfather, Peter Wittmann who arrived in Victoria in this >migration. Perhaps you can tell me how he fit into this grouping. The four >villages of Rohleder, Herzog, Graf and Marienthal were all within a stone's >throw of each other, so where they lived in Russia was probably quite fluid, >depending on the year. Liebenthal was only a short distance down the Karman >River. And the repeat naming pattern will drive you crazy trying to figure >out whether they are brothers; uncles cousins, sons and etc. Perhaps DNA >is the only real way to answer the question. We do have our Peter Wittman's >Y DNA on file. > >Descendants of Alexander Wittmann > > > >1 Alexander Wittmann d: in Russia > >.. +Katherine Folwerk d: in Russia > >...... 2 Peter Wittmann b: Mar 10, 1838 in Herzog, Russia d: Mar 03, 1918 in >Victoria, Kansas, USA Occupation: Grain miller, owner; Herzog, Russia >Immigration: 1876 SS Mosel Census: 1880 District 88, Ellis Co, Kansas > >.......... +Catherina Nussbaum b: Jul 14, 1845 in Russia d: Jan 22, 1915 in >Victoria, Kansas > >............... 3 Catherine Wittman > >............... 3 Joseph Wittman b: Oct 16, 1874 d: Apr 16, 1889 in Died of >influenza > >............... 3 Barbara Wittman b: Aug 14, 1879 d: Aug 14, 1879 in Infant >death > >............... 3 Maria Wittman b: Sep 08, 1881 d: Aug 20, 1893 in Died of >appendicitis. Is 93 or 98? > >............... 3 Johannes Wittman b: Apr 25, 1883 d: Jan 10, 1902 in >Victoria, Ks died trying to jump a freight train > >............... 3 Margaret Wittman b: Aug 24, 1885 in Victoria, Kansas d: >Dec 11, 1968 in Victoria, Kansas Burial: St. Fidelis Cemetery, Victoria, >Kansas, USA > > THIS WAS MY GRANDMOTHER > >................... +Andrew Klaus b: Sep 08, 1882 in Munjor, Kansas, USA d: >Jul 20, 1966 in Victoria, Kansas, USA m: Apr 26, 1904 in St. Fidelis Church, >Victoria, Kansas, USA Burial: St. Fidelis Cemetery, Victoria, Kansas, USA > >............... 3 Anna Maria Wittman b: Sep 06, 1866 d: Sep 14, 1899 > >................... +Alexander (Sr.) Geist b: Oct 1865 in Obermunjor, Russia >d: May 21, 1918 in Hyacinth, Kansas tornado victim m: Nov 08, 1886 Burial: >May 21, 1918 St John's Cemetery, Hyacinth, KS > >............... 3 Wittman b: Dec 1876 d: Feb 28, 1878 > >............... 3 John Wittman b: 1882 d: Sep 11, 1889 > >............... 3 [1] Agnes Wittmann b: Aug 13, 1877 d: Aug 22, 1940 > >................... +Bollig > >............... *2nd Husband of [1] Agnes Wittmann: > >................... +Martin Quint b: Mar 23, 1865 d: Oct 16, 1922 m: Apr 15, >1901 > >...... 2 Johannes Wittman b: Dec 08, 1835 in Russia d: Apr 08, 1914 >Immigration: Jul 29, 1876 New York New York S S Mosel Census: 1880 District >88, Ellis Co, Kansas > >.......... +Anna Catherine Brungardt b: Feb 1838 in Russia d: Feb 16, 1884 >m: in Russia Immigration: Jul 29, 1876 New York New York S S Mosel > >............... 3 Alexander Wittman b: Jun 15, 1864 in Herzog Russia d: Mar >15, 1943 in Park Kansas Immigration: Jul 29, 1876 New York New York S S >Mosel > >................... +Elizabeth Kreutzer b: Dec 08, 1869 in Russia d: Jul 31, >1960 in Park Kansas m: Jan 15, 1890 Immigration: Jul 29, 1876 New York New >York S S Mosel > >............... 3 Michael M Wittman b: May 17, 1874 in Russia d: Nov 10, >1957 in Walker Kansas Immigration: Jul 29, 1876 New York New York S S Mosel > >................... +Margaret Braun b: Jun 04, 1876 in Herzog Russia d: Apr >17, 1913 in Walker Kansas m: Oct 09, 1894 in Herzog Kansas Immigration: Apr >17, 1888 Baltimore Maryland S S America > >............... 3 Franz J Wittman b: Oct 26, 1883 in Herzog Kansas d: Jan >24, 1952 in Topeka Kansas Burial: Jan 28, 1952 Mt Calvary Cemetery, Topeka, >KS > >................... +Katharina Scheck b: Oct 21, 1883 in Herzog Kansas d: >Apr 23, 1963 in Topeka Kansas m: Nov 24, 1903 in Herzog Kansas > >............... 3 Anna Katherina Wittman b: Jun 10, 1862 > >............... 3 Johannes Wittman b: 1867 d: Apr 26, 1884 > >............... 3 Andreas Wittman b: 1871 > >............... 3 Peter Wittman b: Jun 15, 1878 > >............... 3 Barbara Wittman b: Nov 1880 > >............... 3 Victor Wittman > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paula Nevin" <Pnevin@pld.com> >To: <GER-VOLGA-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:22 PM >Subject: Re: [GV] Wittman Family > > > > Sharon, > > Catharina Biel was born in Graf (Krutoyaroka), Russia to Peter and > > Elisabetha (Storm) Biel. > > > > On July 15, 1875 she married Peter Witman in Liebenthal (Lubonirovka), > > Russia. He was the son of Heinrich Johannes and Elisabeth (Stressler) > > Wittman. > > > > They came to America on the SS Mosel in 1876 and settled in Herzog > > (Victoria). They also lived in Colorado for a time. Between 1900 and 1910 > > they moved to Marienthal, Wichita Co., KS where Catharina's brother Jacob > > Biel and his wife Anna Maria Kreutzer were living. > > > > I have two pictures of Catharina, one when she was a young woman with her > > parents and the other of her and Pete in Marienthal sitting in chairs > > beside their adobe home probably shortly before her death.. > > > > I have a little more information if you are interested. Peter and > > Elisabetha (Storm) Biel were my GG Grandparents. I'm descended from their > > son, Jacob Biel. They had other children that also came to America. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Paula Nevin > > Holcomb, KS > > > > > > > > > > At 12:54 AM 8/11/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >>I am trying to find info re: Peter and Catherine (nee Biel) Wittman. I > >>don't know what village they came from in Russia. This is what I do know > >>about them: > >> > >>Peter was born in Russia abt. 1853 & died in Leoti, KS on 3 Apr 1936. He > >>is buried in an unmarked grave in the Marienthal cemetery. > >> > >>Catherine was born in Russia 4 Jul 1855. She died 25 Jul 1924 in Leoti, > >>KS & is also buried in an unmarked grave in the Marienthal cemetery. Her > >>parents were Jakob Biel and Maria Storm. > >> > >>Peter & Catherine came to Victoria, KS on 3 Aug 1876, along with their > >>daughter, Anna (my great-grandmother). Anna was born 19 Apr 1879 in > >>Russia. She married John Schupman (alt. sp. Schuckman) on 24 Sep > >>1904. She died 25 Nov 1947 in LaCrosse, KS. > >> > >>Peter & Catherine's other children, from what I have gleaned from U.S. > >>Federal Census records, were: > >> > >>Peter, b. abt. 1886 > >>Heinrich, b. 23 Oct 1888 > >>John, b. abt. 1890 > >>Joseph, b. 28 Jul 1892 > >>Maria, b. abt. 1893 > >>Conrad, b. abt. 1895 > >>Katherine, b. abt. 1898 > >>Abraham, b. abt 1899 > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Have a great day :-) > >> > >>Sharon McGinness > >>smcginness1@cox.net > >> > >>------------------------------- > >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message