One more statement about differences of opinion and talking about it on these pages. I have found that talking about differences is a good thing because we all learn from each other and no one knows everything so we should welcome a bit of discourse that my get us closer to the truth. We are all pilgrims trying to find the truth in our lives. We are also our brother's keeper. I welcome discussion and I hope that all find answers to their search. Don Soeken On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:02 PM, <ger-volga-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Response (Ron Greenwald) > 2. Re: FIRM orders of one or both volumes on the settlement of > immigrants of German origin in (a) Northern and/or (b) Southern > Alberta (Horst Gutsche) > 3. Y DNA, Palatine, Silesia (fjacobs@cox.net) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 06:21:34 -0700 > From: Ron Greenwald <RonFarmcr3@msn.com> > Subject: Re: [GV] Response > To: "'Darnell Dingle'" <darnell7@suddenlink.net>, "'Peg Goodrich'" > <goodrichpr@gmail.com>, "'Bill Pickelhaupt'" <billpick11@gmail.com> > Cc: ger-volga@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <BAY177-DS1632D566604638C11DFC618C800@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Well said Darnell. > Ron Greenwald > > -----Original Message----- > From: ger-volga-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ger-volga-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Darnell Dingle > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 3:56 PM > To: Peg Goodrich; Bill Pickelhaupt > Cc: ger-volga@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [GV] Response > > Amen! Just agree to disagree and grow up! > Darnell Dingle > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Peg Goodrich" <goodrichpr@gmail.com> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 3:19 PM > To: "Bill Pickelhaupt" <billpick11@gmail.com> > Cc: <ger-volga@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [GV] Response > >> Could you both please take this argument to a different forum? I >> really don't think this is the place. >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Bill Pickelhaupt >> <billpick11@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> How do you know what I said or thought unless you had someone pose >>> and gather my emails and take it to you folks? The conscription >>> project was not going to fruitful, so I went to projects that were. >>> >>> Answer my questions. >>> >>> BP >>> >>> Sent from my HTC Inspire(tm) 4G on AT&T >>> >>> ----- Reply message ----- >>> From: "Kevin Rupp" <volgagerman@ruraltel.net> >>> To: "Bill Pickelhaupt" <billpick11@gmail.com>, >>> "ger-volga@rootsweb.com" <ger-volga@rootsweb.com> >>> Subject: [GV] Response >>> Date: Fri, Feb 21, 2014 4:04 pm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Mr. Pickelhaupt, You were hardly on there long enough to learn anything. >>> Once you found out that we were not going to totally bankroll your >>> project, you ditched the board and have been bad-mouthing us ever >>> sense. >>> >>> Mr. Pickelhaupt, I suggest that you get over it and get on with your >>> life and stop boring these people with you whining. >>> >>> >>> Kevin Rupp >>> volgagerman@ruraltel.net >>> krupp@ruraltel.net >>> www.volgagerman.net >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: ger-volga-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: >>> ger-volga-bounces@rootsweb.com] >>> On Behalf Of Bill Pickelhaupt >>> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 2:53 PM >>> To: GER-VOLGA-L >>> Subject: [GV] Response >>> >>> I served for one meeting of the board. It was obvious I could >>> accomplish more outside the board than on the board, so I left. >>> >>> A bill was paid by AHSGR for translation services - Rick Rye was >>> going to accompany me, but health issues prevented his travel. This >>> was five years ago. I was out the cost of his airline ticket, which was > not a problem. >>> It >>> was necessary to employ a translator, however, in the attempt to find >>> conscription records related to Germans from the Volga, since I can >>> not read handwritten Russian. Talk about a Faustian bargain! No >>> records were found, and I moved on to other projects after my >>> departure from the >>> board: >>> translation of VG histories of Protestant villages, research in >>> *Mittheilungen und Nachrichten, *translation of Pastor Frederich >>> Dsirne's history of the Volga-German colonies in Russia, etc. Those >>> items have nothing to do with LDS. >>> >>> BTW, the 1850 and 1857 census data which I did find in Salt Lake City >>> was given by me to Brent Mai. I understand he has translated some of >>> these census records (I am told some census records he gets are >>> directly from Russian archives), and those village census records are >>> available for purchase in the AHSGR bookstore. That is fine with me. >>> Let's see, I paid for my trip from Los Angeles, where I lived at the >>> time, to Salt Lake City, my hotel room and meals in Salt Lake City >>> and gave away the fruits of my discovery. And AHSGR makes some money. >>> Fine with me, because it benefits a large number of researchers. And >>> I do not hold copyright on any of that material. >>> >>> As I said, the annotated Kontora cases are available online. Only the >>> titles and an internal numbering system seem to have survived. >>> >>> I am not fine with my copyrighted work being stolen. As webmaster, Mr. >>> Rupp, it seems you would be in an excellent position to have posted >>> my work to the AHSGR website. Is that the case? A question, not an >>> accusation. >>> >>> There has been collection of my emails by an individual posing as >>> someone disgruntled with AHSGR, gathering my words and running to the >>> board to pass my emails around. Did you coordinate that effort? I >>> would like to know who did coordinate that. Diane did tell me this >>> was going on. People have to be very insecure to worry about what I >>> think. >>> >>> The move to give SOAR obituaries to LDS' familysearch.org website is >>> a positive move. >>> Bill Pickelhaupt >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 02:33:49 -0700 > From: Horst Gutsche <hwg1923@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [GV] FIRM orders of one or both volumes on the settlement > of immigrants of German origin in (a) Northern and/or (b) Southern > Alberta > To: "ahsgr@ahsgr.org" <ahsgr@ahsgr.org>, "rachel@grhs.org" > <rachel@grhs.org>, "hsgpv@shaw.ca" <hsgpv@shaw.ca>, "sggee@sggee.org" > <sggee@sggee.org>, "krushelh@telus.net" <krushelh@telus.net>, Homer > Rudolf <hrudolf@richmond.edu>, "verein@bessarabien.de" > <verein@bessarabien.de> > Message-ID: <BAY176-W461BBB024D71D32BF87B82BE800@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > > > From: mprokop@ualberta.ca > Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 20:26:06 -0500 > Subject: FIRM orders of one or both volumes on the settlement of immigrants of German origin in (a) Northern and/or (b) Southern Alberta > To: Manfred.Prokop@ualberta.ca > > Dear all, I sending out this mail to everyone who has expressed an interest in one or the other or both volumes. I thank you for your tremendous interest in the history of the ?Germans? in Alberta! Your interest ? and therefore the number of copies that can be reprinted ? will lower the price of the books! > I haven?t got very many new orders for a while, so this may be it. I have received enough pre-orders for both books ((ca. 50 for each volume) to make reprints financially feasible ! I will, of course, print extra copies just in case there are late pre-orders. > This being the case and knowing that you want to get your copy of the book(s) as soon as possible J I would like to accelerate the pace of getting the books printed. I checked with my printer, and they are ready to go to press even with my being far away from Calgary once I can give them the firm number of copies to be reprinted. J Please let me know by March 10 as per the information below. > Please note: I will write separately to those of you who want to get more information about the books (such as, ?Do they contain names of my ancestors??) once I am back in Calgary at the end of March so that you can make up your mind about ordering. There will be enough copies of both volumes. > This will be the cost of the books; it is lower than I had expected because of the substantial number of pre-orders that have come in. > 1. The Northern Alberta volume (238 pages, DVD, instructions for its use): $20.00, tax included. Shipping (postage, cost of bubble mailer and DVD) in all of Alberta except Calgary: $12.00 (averaged out for all locations) > 2. The Southern Alberta volume (308 pages, DVD, instructions for its use): $25.00, tax included. Shipping (postage, cost of bubble mailer and DVD) in all of Alberta except Calgary: $13.00 (averaged out for all locations) > For orders outside of Alberta, I will have to compute the shipping costs once I have your address. For orders from the U.S. I will send an invoice by e-mail once I know the postage; I will, of course, mail the book(s) out right away. > The postage for two books in Alberta is only $2.50 more!!! (I don?t know how Canada Post can justify the very high cost for one volume (ca. .8 kg), while it is quite reasonable for both volumes (ca. 1.5 kg). In other words, for both volumes the postage for all of Alberta is $15.50. > Thus: The total cost for one copy of the Northern Alberta book is $32.00 ($20+$12), for the Southern Alberta the total is $38.00 ($25+$13). For both volumes it is $60.50 ($20 +$25 + $15.50). Etc. > Of course, if a church or group or individual would be willing to receive the books on behalf of its members, this would further decrease the shipping costs for a parcel. Also: If someone in such a group would volunteer to pick up the copies from a Greyhound station I would happy to send the package that way. I have done this before several times. Please let me know when you place the order. I would like to keep your costs down as much as possible. > I should be able to mail out the books by the middle of April. > There is no need to send me your check or money order now, but please do so by the end of March. Make out the check/money order to: Manfred Prokop. My mailing address is 209 Tucker Boulevard, Okotoks, Alberta, T1S 2K1 > Here is what I would like to get from you: 1. Your name and detailed mailing address, please. > 2. Which volume(s)? How many copies?3. Any special requests for shipping. > Thank you and very best wishes, Manfred > Manfred ProkopModern Languages and Cultural StudiesUniversity of Alberta > Edmonton, AB Canada T6G 2E6 Mailing address: > 209 Tucker BoulevardOkotoks, Aalberta Canada T1S 2K1Phone/Fax: (403) 995-0321 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 13:02:08 -0600 > From: <fjacobs@cox.net> > Subject: [GV] Y DNA, Palatine, Silesia > To: "List" <ger-volga@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <62BA6F462339416E95FB2E68E67D171B@FrankHP> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > The world of probabilities is ambiguous, which touchs on some DNA research. Definitely, > DNA backed up with history and written record is superior. However, it is well established > that if a person?s DNA is left at a scene where an event took place and that DNA can be > shone to be at that place at the time of that event, the inference can be made sufficiently > strong to incarcerate a person or release that person from incarceration. Y DNA has the > advantage of having an internal ?clock type feature? which roughly marks off time in 25 year > increments, allowing the time of events to be estimated with a degree of probability. > Absolute, certainly not. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Sources: J. Kuhlberg's list. Dr. Plevy, Saratov Archives, Russia 1997 > > Among the first colonists in the end of 1767, only one Catholic family is registered, > > the one of Johann Carl Claus(Klaus). He is a ploughman, 23 years old, arrived from Hohen > > Friedenberg or Hohen Friededberg (the first colonists record lists had been made by > > Russian clerks by ear and have certain inaccuracies.) His wife is Margaretha, 24 years old. They arrived > > at the Volga on Aug 17, 1766, and were temporarily, until spring 1768, settled in Paulskaja colony. > > Johann Carl arrived in Russia, in Oranienbaum (near Petersburg) on Aug 10,1766 on > > board a warship from Lubeck,where the colonists'collection station was located. > > In J.Kuhlberg's record list he is registered as single. It means means > > that he had married during his way to the Volga. We can say with a high degree > > of probability, that it was Johann Carl who gave rise to all the > > Catholics named Claus (Klaus). But the absence of church documents of the first decade > > of their living on the Volga do not enable us to confirm this supposition documentarily. > > Dr. Plevy; Saratov University > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Sources:Russian American Genealogical Archives Service # 826, June 1998. RAGAS > Registry book of baptism of Roman Catholic Church, of Catharinenstadt > Parish, 1827-1835. Engels archive, fond 221, op.1, #11, p.100. entry > #88. Born15, baptized Nov 15, 1834, in Roman Catholic Church of Obermonjou, Peter son of Caspar Klaus. Parents: colonists Caspar Klaus > and Marianna Konrad, legal couple. Born in colony of Obermonjou, Catharinestadt Parish. Godparents Peter Leiker, Elizabeth Konradi from > Obermonjou. > > Family noted DOB as Nov 1832 or 1834; Russian Archive shows > Nov. 15, 1834 as DOB. > > National Archives, Washington, D.C., Passenger list, S.S. Donau, > arriving July 20, 1878, New York from Bremen, passengers > numbers 294 through 302. > The Russian records show that a Catholic German colonist family of 23 year old Johann Carl Claus > > was registered as arriving on the Volga in 1767. This family was shown to have settled in the Paulskaja Colony in > > 1768. > > We have no record of what happened to the Claus family until Gottfried > > Claus (born about 1777) appears on the 1816 Census of neighboring > > Obermonjou, Russia. > > My question is, is there a 1798 Census of the Paulskaja colony, or > > neighboring colonies which > > would record this Gottfried person, born in 1777? I recognize that > > church records often did not exist for this period. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Sources: J. Kuhlberg's list. Dr. Plevy, Saratov Archives, Russia 1997 > > Among the first colonists in the end of 1767, only one Catholic family is registered, > > the one of Johann Carl Claus(Klaus). He is a ploughman, 23 years old, arrived from Hohen > > Friedenberg or Hohen Friededberg (the first colonists record lists had been made by > > Russian clerks by ear and have certain inaccuracies.) His wife is Margaretha, 24 years old. They arrived > > at the Volga on Aug 17, 1766, and were temporarily, until spring 1768, settled in Paulskaja colony. > > Johann Carl arrived in Russia, in Oranienbaum (near Petersburg) on Aug 10,1766 on > > board a warship from Lubeck,where the colonists'collection station was located. > > In J.Kuhlberg's record list he is registered as single. It means means > > that he had married during his way to the Volga. We can say with a high degree > > of probability, that it was Johann Carl who gave rise to all the > > Catholics named Claus (Klaus). But the absence of church documents of the first decade > > of their living on the Volga do not enable us to confirm this supposition documentarily. > > Dr. Plevy; Saratov University > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > I?ve been doing some background work on Hohenfriedeberg, the origin of the first documented Klaus. His spouce, Konradi was listed as > from Silesia. The locations are one and the same. The first battle was Silesian was in 1742. What is interesting is that if they (Klaus) > arrived with the first German Catholics invited by the Prussians, they would to have to arrive no earlier than 1743- 1744; > a pretty short stay before heading for the Volga in 1765. > The Prussian invited German Catholics in as > farmer colonists. They did not have the land before 1742. However they had recruited western Europeans as early as 1509. > __________________________________________________________________________________________ > The Second Silesian War took place from 1744 to 1745. The Austrians had lost Silesia to Prussia in the Battle of Mollwitz. This was the time when the Austrians, under the command of Field Marshal Otto Ferdinand von Abensberg und Traun, made the attempt to gain control of Silesia once again. The Prussians were again led by King Frederick the Great who had continued the expansionist policy of his father. > > The Battle of Hohenfriedeberg on June 4, 1745 was fought through a ?series of separate actions?, with each part of the Prussian army fighting its own uncoordinated battle. Because the Saxons and Austrians were unable to support each other during the battle they ?Allowed the Prussians time to recover from their own tactical lapses and win a victory that was significant enough to give the battle?s name to one of Germany?s greatest marches?, They retained Silesia > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Frederick the Great was keenly interested in land use, especially draining swamps and opening new farmland for colonizers who would increase the kingdom's food supply. He called it "peopling Prussia" (Peuplierungspolitik). About a thousand new villages were founded in his reign that attracted 300,000 immigrants from outside Prussia. He told Voltaire, "Whoever improves the soil, cultivates land lying waste and drains swamps, is making conquests from barbarism".[91] Using improved technology enabled him to create new farmland through a massive drainage program in the country's Oderbruch marsh-land. This program created roughly 150,000 acres of new farmland, but also eliminated vast swaths of natural habitat, destroyed the region's biodiversity, and displaced numerous native communities. Frederick saw as this project as the "taming" and "conquering" of nature, which, in its wild form, he regarded as "useless" and "barbarous" (an attitude that reflected his enlightenment-era, ! ra! > tionalist sensibilities).[92] He presided over the construction of canals for bringing crops to market, and introduced new crops, especially the potato and the turnip, to the country.[93] > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > Frederick eventually ended up controlling both the Danzig area and Silesia, partially after his father died in and the subdivision of Poland > > in 1709, when he began recruiting German farmers in earnest, freely expressing his distaste for most things Polish, stating that he wanted > > to replace every Pole with a German. While the early Prussians recruited Netherland Mennonites to work on reclaiming the swamp land > > as early as 1509, and while the Mennonites existed peacefully with the Catholic Germans, it is not clear when Frederick started his recruitment. > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > Suffice it to say that a male Klaus descendant from Silesia, tested positive with Y DNA for sharing a common ancestor with Palatine, Germans who > > migrated to the Pennslyvannia and Virginia colonies about 1713, as well as being a direct descendant of some Silesian Germans who later > > occupied Obermonjou , Russia in the 1760s and Ellis County, Kansas. > > > > Frank Jacobs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the GER-VOLGA list administrator, send an email to > GER-VOLGA-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the GER-VOLGA mailing list, send an email to GER-VOLGA@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 9, Issue 48 > ****************************************