"From Catherine to Khruschev", These had, as we saw earlier, their own system of local government since their founding. Each village elected a Schulz to govern the village and a group of neighboring villages elected an Oberschulz to govern the district. Both were supervised by a body of officials appointed by the crown, the Kontor of the Tutelkanzlei in Saratov and the Fuersorgekomitee in Odessa. The whole local government operation was conducted in the German language, according to the customs of the colonists and the regulations of the "Instruktion" of the early days, with occasional arbitrary interference by the supervising officials. On the whole, although they had complaints now and then, the colonists were content with this system and did not want a change. They were surprised, therefore, and unhappy, when on June 4, 1871, a decree was issued which repealed the provisions of the colonist code regarding local government, abolished the Kontor and the Fuersorgekomitee, and incorporated the German colonies into the zemstvo organization set up by the legislation of 1864. In effect this decree of 1871 was far-reaching: it abolished the special colonist status the Germans had enjoyed up to this time and pulled them down to a basis of equality with the Russian peasants. In January 1874, they were considered Russian subjects: "in January 1874, a new military service law came into force which made all medically fit male Russian subjects, when they reached the age of 20, subject to army service for six years. There were exemptions for only sons and for such as were the sole support of minor brothers and sisters; the term of service was shortened for those with certain educational qualifications; but for the first time all classes of the population received the same treatment. The number needed each year to fill the ranks were chosen by lot from among all those subject to the draft." For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it. Note in the above paragraph "All other Russian citizens". Gary Martens > > The Volga-Germans were referred to as colonists in the 1850 and 1857 Revision Lists; this may > be semantic or their actual legal standing. It would be interesting to know whether any legal > change was made in their status in the early 1870s, when the VG menbecame subject to > conscription. > > Bill Pickelhaupt > > --- On Tue, 11/2/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths > To: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 1:41 PM > > > The naturalization form that you quote was a standard form for any foreigner that wanted to > become a citizen, so that in itself doesn't mean that the German-Russian's were citizens of > Russia. > > Searching through an electronic copy of "From Catherine to Khruschev", its interesting that > throughout the book, the Germans are called colonists. Searching for the word "citizen" finds > several references to "citizens" when talking about the GR's. > > One is a table titled "Social Classes Among the Germans in Russia": > > Hereditary Nobility 24,854 > Personal Nobility and Officials 17,134 > Christian Clergy 2,470 > Honored Citizens 14,833 > Merchants 11,768 > City Workers 324,471 > Peasants 1,266,102 > Others 128,857 > > I suspect that the Honored Citizens were not any GR's in the Volga region. They were mostly > Peasants and probably some Merchants. > > Then we find this statement: > > "For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a > unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and > confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military > service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it." > > That seems to imply that the GR's were citizens. > > Then later we find this statement: > > "Like the other peoples of the empire, the German colonists soon developed a measure of > enthusiasm for the new democratic liberties and proceeded to take advantage of them. On > April 20- 23, 1917, 86 delegates from 15 gouvernements met in Moscow for a "Congress of > Russian citizens of German nationality," the first time in their history that colonists from all > regions had come together for such a meeting." > > Looking in the book "The Volga Germans in Russia and the Americas, From 1763 to the > Present" by Fred Koch, and "From Privileged to Dispossed - The Volga Germans, 1860 - > 1917", again the GR's are called colonists throughout the book, and "citizen" is not listed in > the Index. > > I guess the GR's were citizens of Russia, although you have to read between the lines to > figure it out. > > Gary Martens > Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC > > > > > > My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > > > > You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I have a > > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say > > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject > > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from > > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" and left > > "subject'. > > > > This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. > > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > > > > It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but > > rather a "subject" of Russia. > > > > Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > > > > Sally > > > > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > > > > > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > > > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > > > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other > > > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > > > Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > > > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > > ======= > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- [email protected] with > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------- End of forwarded message -------
That list would have included the nobility from the Baltic provinces of what is now Estonia and Latvia with a few from Lithuania and the region in and around St. Petersburg. However, I also wondered why there were some villages which were more isolated than others or which were settled according to who lived closest to the church; that is the early schoolhouse. You can figure that one out for yourselves. Where does the leadership come from in AHSGR and GRHS? By the time of the emigration to other countries (many of course stayed behind) there was quite a mixture but certain families only wanted their children to marry people from their own village or from certain families in other villages. I also suspect that the "peasants" and other classes were not all "peasants" either. Horst > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 17:05:55 -0500 > Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths > > > "From Catherine to Khruschev", > > These had, as we saw earlier, their own system of local government since their founding. > Each village elected a Schulz to govern the village and a group of neighboring villages > elected an Oberschulz to govern the district. Both were supervised by a body of officials > appointed by the crown, the Kontor of the Tutelkanzlei in Saratov and the Fuersorgekomitee > in Odessa. The whole local government operation was conducted in the German language, > according to the customs of the colonists and the regulations of the "Instruktion" of the early > days, with occasional arbitrary interference by the supervising officials. On the whole, > although they had complaints now and then, the colonists were content with this system and > did not want a change. They were surprised, therefore, and unhappy, when on June 4, 1871, > a decree was issued which repealed the provisions of the colonist code regarding local > government, abolished the Kontor and the Fuersorgekomitee, and incorporated the German > colonies into the zemstvo organization set up by the legislation of 1864. In effect this decree > of 1871 was far-reaching: it abolished the special colonist status the Germans had enjoyed > up to this time and pulled them down to a basis of equality with the Russian peasants. > > In January 1874, they were considered Russian subjects: > > "in January 1874, a new military service law came into force which made all medically fit male > Russian subjects, when they reached the age of 20, subject to army service for six years. > There were exemptions for only sons and for such as were the sole support of minor brothers > and sisters; the term of service was shortened for those with certain educational > qualifications; but for the first time all classes of the population received the same treatment. > The number needed each year to fill the ranks were chosen by lot from among all those > subject to the draft." > > For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a unilateral > repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II and confirmed > by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to military service > like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it. > > Note in the above paragraph "All other Russian citizens". > > Gary Martens > > > > > The Volga-Germans were referred to as colonists in the 1850 and 1857 Revision Lists; this > may > > be semantic or their actual legal standing. It would be interesting to know whether any legal > > change was made in their status in the early 1870s, when the VG menbecame subject to > > conscription. > > > > Bill Pickelhaupt > > > > --- On Tue, 11/2/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [GV] A few other oaths > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 1:41 PM > > > > > > The naturalization form that you quote was a standard form for any foreigner that wanted to > > become a citizen, so that in itself doesn't mean that the German-Russian's were citizens of > > Russia. > > > > Searching through an electronic copy of "From Catherine to Khruschev", its interesting that > > throughout the book, the Germans are called colonists. Searching for the word "citizen" > finds > > several references to "citizens" when talking about the GR's. > > > > One is a table titled "Social Classes Among the Germans in Russia": > > > > Hereditary Nobility 24,854 > > Personal Nobility and Officials 17,134 > > Christian Clergy 2,470 > > Honored Citizens 14,833 > > Merchants 11,768 > > City Workers 324,471 > > Peasants 1,266,102 > > Others 128,857 > > > > I suspect that the Honored Citizens were not any GR's in the Volga region. They were > mostly > > Peasants and probably some Merchants. > > > > Then we find this statement: > > > > "For the German colonists, however, the law of 1874 represented a breach of faith a > > unilateral repudiation of a solemn promise made to them in the manifesto of Catherine II > and > > confirmed by Alexander I in his decrees of 1804 and 1813. They were now subject to > military > > service like all other Russian citizens and they were very unhappy about it." > > > > That seems to imply that the GR's were citizens. > > > > Then later we find this statement: > > > > "Like the other peoples of the empire, the German colonists soon developed a measure of > > enthusiasm for the new democratic liberties and proceeded to take advantage of them. On > > April 20- 23, 1917, 86 delegates from 15 gouvernements met in Moscow for a "Congress of > > Russian citizens of German nationality," the first time in their history that colonists from all > > regions had come together for such a meeting." > > > > Looking in the book "The Volga Germans in Russia and the Americas, From 1763 to the > > Present" by Fred Koch, and "From Privileged to Dispossed - The Volga Germans, 1860 - > > 1917", again the GR's are called colonists throughout the book, and "citizen" is not listed in > > the Index. > > > > I guess the GR's were citizens of Russia, although you have to read between the lines to > > figure it out. > > > > Gary Martens > > Dobrinka, Galka, Neu-Weimar & Schilling villages VC > > > > > > > > > > My question is when or ever were they citizens of Russia? > > > > > > You story is about when the were becoming an American citizen. I have a > > > copy of my Grandfather's naturalization certificate. It doesn't say > > > anything about renouncing Russia, but it says he was previously a "subject > > > of the present government of Russia". There were two words to choose from > > > -- "citizen" and "subject" of Russia. They crossed out "citizen" and left > > > "subject'. > > > > > > This was in Portland, Oregon. His naturalization date was 21 May 1918. > > > So that was the day he became a citizen of the US. > > > > > > It's interesting that they did not call him a citizen of Russia but > > > rather a "subject" of Russia. > > > > > > Did Russia have different levels of "citizenship" ??? > > > > > > Sally > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, frank jacobs wrote: > > > > > > > I remember one grandfather taking an oath that it was his intent to > > > > become an American citizen and revoked any allegiance to any foreign > > > > potentate, particularly Alexander Czar of the Russian empire. The other > > > > grandfather also made such a declaration regarding Nicholas Czar of the > > > > Russian Empire. Seems that that cancelled all bets and allegiances > > > > toward Grandmother Catherine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16200) > > > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > > > ======= > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- > [email protected] > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GER-VOLGA- > [email protected] with > > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message